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05.05.12, 10:14 AM General Topics
132 replies
Typical day for most of the secretaries in my office: show up to work at 9 am (when they're required to arrive), immediately leave desk to go to the cafeteria for breakfast, come back to desk to begin day, which involves chatting (usually loudly) with every single other secretary who walks by their desk that day, talking on the phone with their friends, a 1-hour lunch, at least 1 (usually 2) "breaks" (trips to Starbucks, smoke breaks, etc.), and sneaking out about 10 mins earlier than the time they're supposed to leave (6pm). Clearly, they don't have enough work to do, so I don't fault them for not being more productive, but can't they sit in a seat for 8 hours (other than lunchtime and trips to the bathroom) and be mostly quiet? Honestly, it's people like them who make me so annoyed by people who complain about about how "rich" people are just "lucky," need to pay more taxes, etc. Perhaps if at least some of the people who are not "rich" worked a little harder, they would earn a better living. I'm not saying that everyone who is not "rich" is like this, but looking around, there sure are a lot of people who do the bare minimum to get by and I think if you do that, you're forfeiting any legitimate right you have to complain. [ Reply | Watch | Flag ]
General Topics 05.05.12, 10:14 AM Flag
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You sound bitter. Why do you care? [ Reply | More
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General Topics 05.05.12, 10:21 AM Flag
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bitter? like i wish i could have a job where i talk all day and don't do any work? no - i'm definitely not bitter that i don't have a job like that. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 05.05.12, 10:28 AM Flag
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Apply for a secretarial position at your office. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 05.05.12, 10:45 AM Flag
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read a little more carefully please. i would not want that job for 1 day. i like to work hard. it gives me a sense of satisfaction. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 05.05.12, 10:48 AM Flag
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Isn't that the very definition of investment banking? [ Reply | More
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General Topics 05.05.12, 11:42 AM Flag
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investment bankers work harder than anyone in the world. especially when they are young. they're the only ones who claim to--and actually do--work 100+ hour weeks every week. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 05.05.12, 11:46 AM Flag
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Define "work". It's not exactly digging ditches. Sitting at a computer, taking phone calls, and enjoying three-martini lunches and 18 holes on the golf course is hardly "hard work". [ Reply | More
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General Topics 05.05.12, 11:48 AM Flag
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wow, you're seriously misrepresenting what investment bankers do. wow. 3 martini lunches? most of them get whatever lunch is put into the kitchen on their floor because they're not really able to leave the office for lunch. and golf??? nope, none of that unless they make a ton and can join a golf club and go on the weekends that they;re not working. three martini lunches is still making me laugh. wow, what kind of kool aid are you drinking. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 05.05.12, 11:50 AM Flag
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The people you are talking about are 22yo making low to mid 6 figures and sometimes more. 7 figures by 25. She was exaggerating teh 3 martini lunch bit to make a point. Compared to blue collar manual labor working double shifts to make $60k (or less) after overtime is calculated, they might as well be golfing. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 05.05.12, 11:53 AM Flag
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sorry but blue collar nyc workers (police, fire, sanitation) make 50k just to work 38 hours/week. if they work overtime, they get time and a half. many of them work 50 hours/week and make almost $100k. and they get a pension after the retire. and they can retire after 20 years and qualify for the pension. you're completely mistaken. and by the way, ask any of those people if they'd rather be at a desk reading spreadsheets. 90%+ of them will say hell no. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 05.05.12, 12:03 PM Flag
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You're being very selective. To make in 5 years what they make in 30 and the option was open to them (many come from backgrounds where going to college was the exception), they would probably do it in a heartbeat. Think construction, roadwork, etc. and not the highest payed union blue collar workers. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 05.05.12, 12:10 PM Flag
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my husband did construction while we were in college. he made $300/day. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 05.05.12, 12:13 PM Flag
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How? [ Reply | More
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General Topics 05.05.12, 03:03 PM Flag
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Bullshit. Why are you forgetting to tell people about the massive layovers that come in the off seasons? $300 a day...He was either putting his life on the line everyday doing the riskiest work OR he was a supervising engineer giving orders to the Joe Schmoes OR he owned the damn company. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 05.05.12, 09:28 PM Flag
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an investment banker's job involves creating spreadsheets, checking financials to make sure they're accurate and making pitch books for companies looking to raise money and then dragging the pitch books all over the globe so that they can be presented. there is no time for lunches out, nevermind martinis. this person talking about martinis and golf is totally crazy. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 05.05.12, 11:52 AM Flag
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Correct. And the poster earlier who said 25 year old bankers make 7 figures is way off. Maybe in hedge fund world that is true, but not in IB anymore. Maybe ten or fifteen years ago this was possible, but now it's just a grind and the financial reward is not that great (for NYC at least). Also, there are layoffs at the big banks every couple of months so zero job security. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 05.05.12, 12:22 PM Flag
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I think people justify their own actions by telling themselves that 25 year old bankers make 7 figures and drink martinis at lunch. if they actually allowed themselves to understand that bankers work their tails off, they would have no excuse for being sponges. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 05.05.12, 12:29 PM Flag
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That was me and my DH is in finance and I'm in biglaw. Should I have said 28 or even 30 rather than 25? The point is still the same and all of you who are who are so high and mighty because of how hard you work are living in la la land about your relative effort v. reward. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 05.05.12, 12:50 PM Flag
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^^^Include anyone on the partnership route in big accounting. One year my husband worked 600 hours of OT. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 05.05.12, 12:44 PM Flag
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Where would working really hard get them in that job? A promotion? Would their work be noticed and rewarded with anything but more of the same work? I doubt it. And how do you know these specific women think rich people are lucky? [ Reply | More
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General Topics 05.05.12, 10:21 AM Flag
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no they are rich because they got lucky. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 05.05.12, 10:27 AM Flag
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where is the part about rich people being lucky? [ Reply | More
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General Topics 05.05.12, 10:28 AM Flag
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you have to click on the diatribe to see the whole bitter post. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 05.05.12, 10:29 AM Flag
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Well, that little trick certainly explains a lot. I just always thought people typed off a cliff all the time ... thank you :) [ Reply | More
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General Topics 05.05.12, 10:44 AM Flag
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lucky like they didn't do anything to deserve it; they just inherited it or get help from their families or got lucky in the sense that they got a job that pays weell [ Reply | More
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General Topics 05.05.12, 10:30 AM Flag
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The CEO at the company I work for inherited the company from his father. Yeah, he works hard, but not necessarily any harder than the hardest-working employee who makes 1/10 as much money as he does. That is what is called luck. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 05.05.12, 10:34 AM Flag
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certainly some people are lucky. some people win the lottery, too. the point is that if you don't work hard, you're out of the running and in OP's opinion, you have no right to complain. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 05.05.12, 10:38 AM Flag
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NP: self respect. and yes, a promotion. they could become a supervisor. this reminds me of the ladies who sit at the hertz desk. you have to wait for them to stop chatting on the phone in order to get service, Ummm you're working. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 05.05.12, 10:31 AM Flag
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I love these arguments because they always forget one very salient point: in order for their to be a top dog, there has to be a kennel of little dogs. Wow! A promotion...so everyone can become supervisors! What company do you work for where everyone who works hard and puts in effort gets to be a supervisor? Can you even imagine what that would look like? That's the problem. People who spout off the "bootstraps" philosophy forget that society is a pyramid with only so much room at the top. You just want to make yourself feel better that you truly deserve what you have. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 05.05.12, 09:32 PM Flag
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They have settled. If they bust their tail off as a secretary, at best they'll get a slight promotion and some more pay. But doing what they do, even at 120% effort, will never get them to where the boss is, financially and job-duty wise. And they know it. It's not just about hard work, it's about opportunities. There are employees at my office who bust their butts in low-level jobs. Some of them work almost as many hours as the CEO. They always win employee effort awards, get raises...etc. But that is all they get. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 05.05.12, 10:32 AM Flag
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np if you work hard and have a strong work ethic, you could build skills and knowledge base to leave and get a different, better job [ Reply | More
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General Topics 05.05.12, 10:34 AM Flag
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NP-If you think that's all it takes especially in NYC you have no clue [ Reply | More
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General Topics 05.05.12, 10:38 AM Flag
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it's a prerequisite for any chance you have at success. also, it's your job. it's why you collect a paycheck. secretaries everywhere are being laid off. maybe they should work hard just to keep their jobs. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 05.05.12, 10:53 AM Flag
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And then there would need to be another person to fill that secretary's position. If everyone worked super duper hard and did everything that they're supposed to do, guess what? We'd still need janitors and sanitation workers and secretaries...they'd just have graduate degrees because they could not find an open position worthy of their degree because everyone else has graduate degrees...and they'd still need to eat. Fascinating...you do realize that this is EXACTLY what happens in developing nations right. There are some very well educated, hardworking people in those countries who at the end of the day cannot find work so they drive cabs or work as customer service reps. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 05.05.12, 09:36 PM Flag
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do you think they ever worked hard? i sort of doubt it [ Reply | More
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General Topics 05.05.12, 10:37 AM Flag
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This. I could see busting your butt for a job that pays amazing and get lots of respect with room for advancement. But why would you do that in a job that you have none of these things. If you think they have it so easy why don't you become a secretary. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 05.05.12, 10:37 AM Flag
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op: i don't want them to bust their tails; i want them to be quiet and maintain some level of professionalism. sorry, but these peopl imo are a drain on society. everywhere you look, there are people doing the bare minimum. i think it's sad. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 05.05.12, 10:43 AM Flag
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that is your employers fault -mine would not waste money like that - they would waste money on executive retreats but certainly not for low level employees not to work. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 05.05.12, 10:51 AM Flag
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Are you a law firm associate, OP? Is the real issue that they jump high for the senior partner they work for but you are lawyer #3 or #4 and they know that they really don't have to be "on" when said partner is not around bc you're too afraid to say anything in real life? [ Reply | More
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General Topics 05.05.12, 11:00 AM Flag
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i am not an associate at a law firm [ Reply | More
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General Topics 05.05.12, 11:01 AM Flag
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What do you do that you are in a position to see all of these secretaries slacking everyday, yet it seems that none of them work for you? [ Reply | More
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General Topics 05.05.12, 11:04 AM Flag
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i do have a secretary. not giving info on what i do. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 05.05.12, 11:05 AM Flag
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So you're saying you have a secretary who does this and uou are powerless to do anything about it. Is that why it bothers you so much? [ Reply | More
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General Topics 05.05.12, 11:09 AM Flag
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i'm not powerless to do anything with respect to 1 secretary, but my point is much larger. i am powerless with respect to the culture of laziness and entitlement that i see everywhere. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 05.05.12, 11:11 AM Flag
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poor poor you [ Reply | More
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General Topics 05.05.12, 11:12 AM Flag
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yes, that was my point. when you have no arguments left, just say something dumb. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 05.05.12, 11:21 AM Flag
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That was actually an NP and not me. I do agree w the poster above who basically said that it's not that easy. It is a whole lot easier to work hard when real rewards (whether monetary or career trajectory) are attainable as opposed to when you might not get any recognition at all for working herd. I don't totally disagree w your point but judging from on high the way you are is distasteful, at best. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 05.05.12, 11:28 AM Flag
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i'm judging simply from a position of a person who works hard and thinks that everyone else should. when i graduated college, i worked for 30k and i worked hard. if i volunteer, i work hard. i was raised to believe that if you're going to do a job, you have to do it as well as you can. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 05.05.12, 11:31 AM Flag
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Wasn't that 30K job a stepping stone to something else (even if your job between college and grad school) and not a dead end job that you were likely to be in for the next 20 years? When you volunteer, it is for something you have specifically sought out to do and it is meaningful to you. I'm of the view that I have worked hard but have also been very fortunate and it bothers me when others are too quick to declare others to be inadequate bc their world view and, as a result, actions are very different, it often reeks of classism (sometimes - not always - mixed w a little racism). [ Reply | More
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General Topics 05.05.12, 11:46 AM Flag
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no, that job wasn't a steping stone. i was an assistant. i went to grad school and totally transformed my career. a secretary makes less $ than i do, but she didn't pay for grad school, she didn't give up those years of income, she didn't work her ass off in grad school, and she gets to go home at 6pm and not come back until 9 am and she gets a 1 hour lunch every day. that's the benefit to being a secretary. the down side is that she doesn't make that much. where does the idea come from that she doesn't have to do her job because her job doesn't pay much. her responsibilities are menial and not very demanding because she doesn't get paid much. that's already built into her salary. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 05.05.12, 11:56 AM Flag
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so are they not doing their job as you claim now or do they not have enough to do like you claimed before (and they should just sit and be quiet so they don't bother you with their existence)? Well, which is it? [ Reply | More
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General Topics 05.05.12, 12:03 PM Flag
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part of everyone's job is to act professionally when in a professional environment. being chatty cathy (as someone called it below) is not acting in a professional manner. also, talking and carrying on all day is distruptive to the people who do have work to do. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 05.05.12, 12:08 PM Flag
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have you or anyone else said anything to the chatters? Because part of being professional is not assuming people can read your mind and not letting resentments build up until you're cursing all secretaries as lazy entitled drains on society. Just tell them so you can work. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 05.05.12, 12:13 PM Flag
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when people disrupt me, i definitely tell them. again, this is not the point of my post. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 05.05.12, 12:16 PM Flag
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what's the point? [ Reply | More
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General Topics 05.05.12, 12:22 PM Flag
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the point is that there is this insance culture of laziness. people take and justify taking because they say rich people got lucky. in most cases, the truth is that they worked hard. case in point, the person above saying that bankers make 7 figures, play golf, and drink martinis. that couldn't be further from the truth. bankers work 100 hour weeks. that's the equivalent of 2-1/2 full time jobs. if a 50k worker worked 3 jobs, they'd make $150k. not what a banker makes, but the point is that a lot of 50k workers have no chance of getting out of their current place precisely because they refuse to work hard. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 05.05.12, 12:36 PM Flag
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you keep telling yourself that. Apparently it makes you feel better to believe it, so go for it. But you're just not right. Many people do not want to make $150k if it means working the equivalent of 2 jobs. Some people are lazy, yes, and some people with a high salary don't work all that hard. Most people, however, do enjoy working hard provided they are appreciated and compensated decently. You habe so much disdain for people who have no interest in working 60 hours a week because, I think, you're jealous that they have a life outside of work. You know that money is nice, but so is time. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 05.05.12, 01:29 PM Flag
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If a 50k worker worked 3 jobs they would drop from exhaustion. Seriously, you are not understanding the difference between real, actual labor and sitting on your ass moving paper computer icons around. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 05.05.12, 03:09 PM Flag
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That's bullshit. Signed adjunct (who is an adjunct because I love it) who has three degrees and picks up temp secretarial work every once in a while. There is not a lot of reason to be hyper-aggressive as a secretary. No promotions, little incentive, no respect, and everyone thinks your stupid. Talk to your janitors sometimes. I find janitors in investment banks to be some of the smartest people in the building. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 05.05.12, 06:35 PM Flag
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oops...you're [ Reply | More
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General Topics 05.05.12, 06:35 PM Flag
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I am not OP, but I am an associate at a law firm and partners (i.e., the people who OWN the firm) complain about this. I think no one cares enough to do anything about it. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 05.05.12, 11:06 AM Flag
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The same way they complain about associates too, but if their secretary was not at her desk when they needed her, snuck out early it wouldn't last long. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 05.05.12, 11:12 AM Flag
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It's a lot more difficult (in time and other concerns) to fire someone than you think. Also, surely partners complain about associates just like partners complain about other partners. However, I agree with OP. The level of professionalism of the assistants at some of these places is gross. You collect a paycheck. On what planet do you not feel that you should have to earn it? [ Reply | More
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General Topics 05.05.12, 11:23 AM Flag
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used to be capable women went into secretarial work and teaching. now, only women who can't do better go into those fields. that's what you get when you get leftovers. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 05.05.12, 10:35 AM Flag
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There is some serious teacher-hate on this website. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 05.05.12, 10:40 AM Flag
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Yes, that's it. A job that doesn't even require a HS degree (though I recognize that great secretaries often have BAs) is equivalent to a job that requires a BA and specific, if somewhat limited, additional training. Exactly the same candidate pool/type of women. Ugh [ Reply | More
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General Topics 05.05.12, 10:41 AM Flag
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hey, a smart high school graduate can do either of those jobs well. a smart high school grad can do a whole lot of things well in this world. what exactly is so academically/intellectually difficult about teaching that it requires a college degree? not very much. the entire nation was founded on children learning from teachers who had only high school degrees. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 05.05.12, 10:57 AM Flag
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But teaching does require a BA which includes specific coursework in hold development etc, plus the teaching credential. You don't even need a HS diploma to be a secretary. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 05.05.12, 11:02 AM Flag
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that's some crap the teachers' union made up. you don't NEED a bachelor to teach. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 05.05.12, 11:51 AM Flag
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So you're fine with your DCs being taught by someone with only a HS diploma? Until what age? You think the child psych, child development and other courses required are irrelevant? [ Reply | More
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General Topics 05.05.12, 11:58 AM Flag
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totally irrelevant. i could have taught physics and calculus after my senior year. so why couldn't a smart HS grad teach everything through 12th? for elementary, not even a question. the child psych and other are totally irrelevant. my friends take their kids to the counselor, forget the teacher, they have no clue what's going on except to suggest kids get on medication. or to suggest children are lying if they haven't any solution to kids' disliking school. it's all crap. get some smart HS kids in there. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 05.05.12, 12:06 PM Flag
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Hilarious. Yes, of course, that's all that teachers of children in K-12 do, they lecture in the classroom. Have you ever taken time from your busy schedule to actually visit your child's classroom? Do you have children? Teachers end up being therapists, temporary parents, educators, and an entire litany or other roles during the 6-8 hour period that they are with their students. Often a child's teacher sees them more than their own parents. You sound truly ignorant. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 05.05.12, 09:48 PM Flag
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^^to be certified in NYS you have to have a masters before tenure. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 05.05.12, 12:48 PM Flag
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This doesn't even make sense. The teachers' union doesn't create the requirements. The State Department of Education determines what is required, and yes, a Masters Degree is now needed. As Teacher Appreciation Day is coming up, here's an article for anyone who thinks teaching is easy: http://www.musingsonlifeandlove.com/2010/09/13/the-hardest-job-everyone-thinks-they-can-do/ [ Reply | More
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General Topics 05.05.12, 05:15 PM Flag
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I love it. Teachers looking down on secretaries. LOL [ Reply | More
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General Topics 05.05.12, 11:59 AM Flag
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I am neither. I'm just astonished by the teacher hate here. It is even spawned by a secretary-bashing post! [ Reply | More
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General Topics 05.05.12, 12:17 PM Flag
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I know, I can't really understand where all the teacher hate comes from! [ Reply | More
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General Topics 05.05.12, 01:14 PM Flag
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Have you ever looked at the people hired in your company or do you see the working class and automatically categorize them as dumbf*cks who probably dropped out of high school due to an unwed pregnancy...do you also think they all have in-house meth labs and nurse their kids with mountain dew? Goodness. In order to be a secretary, you must have a high school diploma at the least. Many of them have 2 year associates degrees. They also have extensive knowledge of office software usually proved by achieving certificates in various programs. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 05.05.12, 09:41 PM Flag
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I have never heard of a secretary job that didn't require a degree. Many jobs in this world can be done without degrees but they still require them. Not just secretarial work. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 05.05.12, 11:43 AM Flag
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So you agree with OR in equating secretarial work and teaching? You really think that all secretaries have BAs? I didn't think this discussion was limited to finance/large company/biglaw/4 NYC. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 05.05.12, 11:49 AM Flag
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No i'm not agreeing with the OR. I'm saying that many secretaries/ receptionists have BAs especially those in big companies. Sometimes they get promoted after working at the company for a long time. The ones in medical or dental cliniques, no, they don't need to have a BA. But to say that they don't even need a HS degree is false. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 05.05.12, 11:59 AM Flag
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no, it's not. They just need to be bright enough to do the job and, usually, know how to type. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 05.05.12, 12:16 PM Flag
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This shows you have never done secretarial work. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 05.05.12, 12:41 PM Flag
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a mature, capable and savvy secretary can easily make six figures [ Reply | More
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General Topics 05.05.12, 11:06 AM Flag
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This! [ Reply | More
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General Topics 05.05.12, 11:07 AM Flag
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Wow. You know what I think I'll do. I think I'll start forwarding these types of conversations on the board to random teachers in the various private schools. Even better, I think I'll send them to the admissions personnel. "FYI: this is what the mothers who want entry into your school really think about your staff of teachers." [ Reply | More
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General Topics 05.05.12, 09:44 PM Flag
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They go home and don't have to worry about their work at night...there is a lot to be said for that. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 05.05.12, 11:00 AM Flag
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ha they don't even worry about their work during the day [ Reply | More
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General Topics 05.05.12, 11:01 AM Flag
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Absentee management? [ Reply | More
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General Topics 05.05.12, 11:25 AM Flag
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This sounds like the receptionists at my office. They get annoyed when you call them and ask them to connect you to someone else. The funny part is if their phones didn't ring, they would be out of a job. But they don't see this. I have no idea how in the world this problem could ever be solved. People like this justify their actions by thinking they're owed something when in fact they are not. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 05.05.12, 11:28 AM Flag
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ITA, this is what is called riding on others' coattails. it happens everywhere, not just at work. It's a real problem. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 05.05.12, 11:34 AM Flag
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This makes me laugh because I was a secretary for a long time. Best job I ever had. Terrible career, though. Once you get to the point where you are the same age or older than the person you are working for, it's downhill from there. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 05.05.12, 11:35 AM Flag
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if she's professional, age wouldn't break the deal [ Reply | More
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General Topics 05.05.12, 11:43 AM Flag
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np: Bullshit. Office Admin jobs are the primary career paths where ageism and discrimination based on perceived attractiveness most openly occur. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 05.05.12, 09:38 PM Flag
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this is pretty much how it is in my office too, but i will say they are not paid very well for a 9-6 job in NYC (about $60k) and do complete all tasks assigned to them. I look at our C-Suite, and they get waited on hand and foot, driven around,private planes, don't pay for any meals. Do they work hard? Mostly they go to meetings and tell other people what to do. They make millions and millions of dollars while the rest of us had to tell our staff about paycuts and layoffs due to poor performance. The CEOs comp was up. I do agree hard work is key to success but it seems the people working the hardest are in the middle. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 05.05.12, 11:39 AM Flag
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ita! Without secretaries richy rich would be screwed. I bet they couldn't even do the job themselves. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 05.05.12, 12:03 PM Flag
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That's what secretaries like to tell themselves. However, most of them are the last thing from indispensable. It took a secretary in my office 20 mins to fix something for her boss that i could have fixed in a minute. and she made a huge song and dance over it, acting like she was saving his life and it was the most important thing anyone in the office was doing at that moment. my point is that she clearly feels indispensable but she's not even close. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 05.05.12, 12:10 PM Flag
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omg I hope you aren't real. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 05.05.12, 12:42 PM Flag
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yeah, anyone who tells the truth (no matter how harsh it might be) is fake . . . [ Reply | More
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General Topics 05.05.12, 01:26 PM Flag
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I remember when I worked as a receptionist for 5 years I did my work while sometimes chatting. I loved it, very laid back. I ever left early and most of us didn't. 6 years I got promoted to the research department because of my postitive attitude and my ability to get things done. The hiring manager is always getting up to fix herself coffee or food or go to the washroom. So STFU snob. Many rich people barely do anything, leave an hour earlier and still get paid loads. Yet i'm sure you have no complaints about them. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 05.05.12, 11:40 AM Flag
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I have no doubt that the secretaries love to chat while they work. It's the people who are actually think they need to work for their paycheck and are accordingly trying to get work done that think the chatty cathies are annoying. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 05.05.12, 11:57 AM Flag
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op here: i put the hiring manager in this group of people who are pretty unlikely to work hard, so you're not proving anything by telling me that the hiring manager is always taking coffee breaks. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 05.05.12, 12:05 PM Flag
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^ however, rich people barely do anything? That would be funny if it weren't so sad that you are so disillusioned. all of my friends earn in the 500k range and every one of them works 60+ hours/week, works weekends, etc. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 05.05.12, 12:06 PM Flag
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well, they're the working wealthy. Not the same thing as being a trust funder. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 05.05.12, 12:16 PM Flag
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np they're paying the taxes thta allow these people OP describes to sit on their asses most of the time. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 05.05.12, 12:17 PM Flag
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no, their bosses are allowing them to sit on their asses all day. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 05.05.12, 01:31 PM Flag
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i fit the above and much of it is self-created. there is no real need to be working around the clock. our most productive office is in Amsterdam and they leave the office at 6 every night. Americans are very obsessed with work -- it's a huge part of our self-worth -- and we like to make ourselves seem indispensable by sending emails at all hours. Self included. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 05.05.12, 12:19 PM Flag
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I don't know what industry you're in, but this is kind of a sweeping statement that absolutely does not apply to many industries in which people work hard. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 05.05.12, 12:21 PM Flag
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blackberries and technology have proliferated this across every industry. people used to have to wait for mail, etc. now everything is available all the time. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 05.05.12, 12:35 PM Flag
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in my field, this simply means that we can take on more work. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 05.05.12, 12:38 PM Flag
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Quit getting all defensive. You can read "many rich people don't do anything" (meaning not all) and that is not the only poster who said that. It is true. Many in my department just attend meetings and boss everyone else around while taking breaks every half hour. I'm reading all your responses and I find them quite sad that you think their work is not valuable. What are doing on ub then if you're such a big shot? [ Reply | More
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General Topics 05.05.12, 12:40 PM Flag
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I dub thee Drill Sarge Marge. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 05.05.12, 12:08 PM Flag
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op: i'm OK with being a hard working person who expects others to work hard as well. also, i think it's sad that you would view that as "drill sergeant" activity because it shows that you're another person with low standards. all of the hard working people think that you should work while you're at work. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 05.05.12, 12:15 PM Flag
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you're coming off as shrill. I thought 'drill sargeant' was nicer than shrill. The thing is, you've generalizing about all secretaries and hiring managers, and that's not fair. So sure, the secretaries in your office might be lazy, I don't work there so I don't know, but stop generalizing, m'kay? [ Reply | More
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General Topics 05.05.12, 12:20 PM Flag
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do you even know what shrill means? the word shrill would be more aptly used to describe the above-mentioned secretaries. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 05.05.12, 12:32 PM Flag
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She's bitter. Let her. It's saturday and she obviously has nothing to do. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 05.05.12, 12:43 PM Flag
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It only makes me angry if they don't get their work done, and my work suffers because of it. Honestly, where I work there are a lot of people with too much time because they are not being assigned reasonable amounts of work by their superiors. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 05.05.12, 12:07 PM Flag
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the secretaries where i work are not busy because there isn't work to give them. (1) they don't seem capable of doing the challenging stuff and (2) there's not a lot of unchallenging stuff to give them. that said, they can act professionally. the problem is that most of them do not. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 05.05.12, 12:11 PM Flag
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so why don't you save money and get rid of the position? [ Reply | More
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General Topics 05.05.12, 12:17 PM Flag
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that's actually happening. 1/2 of the secretaries were laid off about a year ago. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 05.05.12, 12:22 PM Flag
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It still sounds like the solution is to make better hiring decisions. Why are these people employed? [ Reply | More
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General Topics 05.05.12, 12:17 PM Flag
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I don't know why these people are employed. It's painful. I actually have a friend who wants to fire a secretary who refuses to do filing work, but she is having a hard time firing the person because the HR department is scared to fire people. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 05.05.12, 12:39 PM Flag
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Increase the unemployment rate. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 05.05.12, 12:47 PM Flag
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DH here. After reading all these comments, it's not hard to see why most admins prefer to have male bosses. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 05.05.12, 12:41 PM Flag
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ITA! I get along soooo much better with my male coworkers. The women on this board are are just bitchy. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 05.05.12, 12:45 PM Flag
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the worst are childless women bosses who have no life outside the office. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 05.05.12, 01:36 PM Flag
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Oh please! There are plenty of shitty male bosses, believe me. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 05.05.12, 09:05 PM Flag
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Honestly-how do you walk around with that huge stick up your ass. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 05.05.12, 12:48 PM Flag
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First of all, you sound very bitter. Beyond that, I understand why constant talking would annoy you, however, they just don't get paid enough money to work like maniacs. It's not reasonable to expect people to work the same number of hours as an executive for significantly less pay - you get paid more to work more. Also, since when is sitting at your desk all day a sign of hard work? At my office, people frequently get up from their desks spontaneously to discuss ongoing projects. Oh, and finally, I don't hear anything about them complaining. They sound happy, more so than you. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 05.05.12, 04:56 PM Flag
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none of these arguments have anything to do with OP's complaints. this is a dumb response. all of it. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 05.05.12, 07:06 PM Flag
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Actually, it does. Her complaints are that a) they don't spend enough time sitting at their desk, b) they talk too much, and c) if they acted more like her they'd make more money. I'm arguing that she's not in a position to determine whether they should be spending more time at their desk, agreeing that the talking could be annoying so giving her room there, and that her argument that they should work more to make more money goes both ways. Thanks for attempting to contribute, though. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 05.05.12, 07:45 PM Flag
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Who still uses the term "secretaries"? [ Reply | More
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General Topics 05.05.12, 08:16 PM Flag
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