[-]Sarah Palin's son, Trig, was one of the "hot topics" on The View today. Barbara Walters read a statistic that 90% of fetuses found to have down syndrome are terminated. Last poll I read said something like the split between pro-life/pro-choice in the US is close to 50/50, so I don't see, mathematically, how it can be that 90% of ds pregnancies are terminated.
78 replies [ Reply | Watch | Options ]Or that pro-choice people have a disproportionate number of DS pregnancies. Maybe it has something to do with age--women who wait to get married and have children in order to build their careers are statistically more likely to be pro-choice. Then they are older when they get pregnant so DS is more likely.
[ Reply | Options ]NP: Just a hunch, but I would guess what you say may be more true for NYC, where many women wait to have children... but for the country as a whole, I would guess more pro-lifers tend to have babies with down syndrome, because many don't believe in birth control and thus continue to have children into their forties. In our Catholic church there were many babies with downs-syndrome (usually the youngest in the family). I imagine that not every woman feels she can handle that at forty with many other children to care for as well (pro-life or not).
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I don't agree entirely. I opted at 40 not to have a cvs or amnio because I knew that whatever I learned wouldn't change anything, I was going to have that baby anyway. Some of us know what we believe on this subject without being tested.
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Yes, but as someone pointed out below if you know you won't terminate there's no point in getting the testing done. By opting out of the tests I was making a descision to have my child regardless of the number of chromosones he had.
[ Reply | Options ]Not true. There is a point to getting testing, even if you will not terminate under any circumstances. If you do have a DB that will have a problem, then you have the time/ability to prepare for what's coming. Arranging for necessary specialists, arranging leaves/benefits, preparing older DCs, etc.
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The great irony is that the traditional "red" states have (1) higher divorce rates, (2) higher # of abortions and (3) higher % of poverty... People don't do what they "believe"--they are better at telling other people what to do...
[ Reply | Options ]residents of red states, on average, tend to be less eductaed, poorer, less white- this contributes to higher rates of all that you suggest above. The education levels and incerased poverty have way more to do with it than the political convictions-
[ Reply | Options ]i thought poor are more likely to have baby, whereas wealthy are more likely to have abortion?
[ Reply | Options ]actually, lots of poor women have multiple abortions- lack of access to health care and bad choices lead to lack of birth control, so they use abortion as a form of birth control- also teenagers pregnant more in poorer areas (and places where sex education is weak- hello red states!) and they get abortions-
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what a tragically black and white way to look at the world. do you teach your child that the people in "red states" are ignorant, right wingers? how sad.
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I wonder what the ages of the moms who terminate are vs those who don't. IME its easier to be pro-life, or see any issue in black and while with no shades of grey, when you're young. As we get older, wiser, and have more life experiences to draw from most issues enter the grey area.
[ Reply | Options ]I never claimed to know what others could/should do but I always said I would never opt for termination of my child. Then quad screen said 1:4 for Trisomy 18/21 and I did research on what T18/21 is. And I thought about the two kids we already had. And the world got very very gray.
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because a) many people who are pro-life don't have an amnio b/c they know they wouldn't abort no matter what the test shows and b) some people consider themselves pro-life but still make exceptions so in a poll they would answer that they are pro-choice, but what they really mean is that abortion isn't a form of birth control.
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Yes, I think I have heard that some pro-lifers will not have an amnio because they feel it implies that they MIGHT abort.
[ Reply | Options ]I am prolife and I choose not to have an amnio. Not because of what it might imply to anyone. I choose not to because of the potential risk of amnio. I know many prolife people and having an amnio or not is just a matter of what they feel comfortable with. Some people just need to know. Just like some people just need to know the sex of the baby.
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Palin's behavior after she went into labor with Trig was so completely bizarre and showed such indifference to the health and well-being of her child that I can't help wondering whether she did not want him to live.
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Not only give a speech--fly home from Texas to Alaska!! http://andrewsullivan.theatlantic.com/the_daily_dish/2008/10/palins-medica-2.html
[ Reply | Options ]Andrew Sullivan, the daily dish, is a kook. He is not a responsible journalist, but a conspiracy theorist who does not report facts.
[ Reply | Options ]Really? I'm not a huge fan of him personally, but don't consider him remotely kooky or inventive re facts. And the Atlantic is pretty tough re that kind of thing. What supposed non-facts do you have a quibble with here? Most people on UB would tell you that most airlines won't even let you fly after 8 mos. and it's true that she was leaking amniotic fluid. If that were you, would YOU get on a long flight? No way, unless you felt indifferent or worse towards your baby's health and survival.
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Yes, that whole thing was weird as hell. I never believed the "Bristol is Trig's real mother" rumor but Palin's behavior surrounding this birth was just crazy. I never thought of that as an explanation but actually I can sort of believe that she was losing her mind a little bit and feeling very, "Let God decide what he wants to happen," about it.
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We're not the ones who got on a 8-hour plane flight while in labor. Now that's creepy.
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Her water was broken! This was her fifth pregnancy, you can't tell me she didn't know that was a sign of labor.
[ Reply | Options ]Are you quoting Plain who said her water broke or are you getting the info from the dubious Andrew Sullivan of the "daily dish"... this is beyond creepy.
[ Reply | Options ]According to the New York Times, Palin herself has said that her water was broken when she got on the plane.
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meant to add this http://www.ktuu.com/global/story.asp?s=8194634
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These studies are flawed in that people who pursue prenatal diagnosis in general are more likely to terminate an affected pregnancy. I am a genetic counselor and work in a population where I would say 80% of patients decided against amniocentesis/CVs, so we have no idea what they would do if they found out a pregnancy was affected. Prenatal diagnosis of Down syndrome by maternal blood sampling is coming. When the risk from the procedure is taken out, and more people have testing, we may get a better idea of what the true statistic is.
[ Reply | Options ]I'm Catholic, would not have terminated a pregnancy and had an amnio. I grew up with a cousin who had Down's, and knew that if there was something wrong with my DB, I'd want to know, so that I could be prepared to manage the situation - line up the right specialists in advance, prepare other family members, arrange DH and my leave/benefits, etc. Just having an amnio doesn't automatically mean anything.
[ Reply | Options ]we tried 8 years to have my daughter and were told during one of her screenings she had markers for downs. i'm pro-choice, but refused a amnio and refused to abort. i never thought about raising a special needs child, but i knew that she was a miracle and couldn't wait for her arrival regardless. anyway, all went well despite concerns and we delivered a perfectly, beautiful, brilliant and happy baby. so you never know.
[ Reply | Options ]I am pro-choice but I knew I would never terminate a Downs baby. I did the nuchal fold testing (both for my twins and my singleton) to get some idea of the risks. When it was normal, I opted not to do CVS or amnio. If the nuchal fold had shown a high risk, I likely would have done more testing just to do as an earlier poster suggested - line up specialists, read up on the challenges etc. etc.
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bc many people don't think beyond elective abortions in the event of unwanted pregnancies - so they say they are "anti abortion" or "prolife". those same people can feel very differently when faced with the possibility of a db w DS or other serious medical/physical/congenital issues.
[ Reply | Options ]many people think that being "pro-life" means that they personally would never get an abortion and that being "pro-choice" means that they would. they don't get that it's a political viewpoint: being prolife means that you think that NO WOMAN should be allowed to get an abortion and being prochoice means you think that the choice to terminate or continue a pregnancy should be in the hands of the woman. It's kind of like being anti-poverty does not mean only that you personally don't want to be poor...
[ Reply | Options ]you are wrong... I am pro-choice for others, pro-life for myself. Quite frankly, if women want to abort their children there is nothing I could do to stop them. Therefore, I believe women should be able to abort their babies, I just would never abort my own.
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or: that is EXACTLY what I am saying. pro-choice is a political stance meaning that you believe women should ahve the right to choose to terminate OR to keep a pregnancy. Pro-life means that you believe that women should NOT have that right - that the government should make it illegal to terminate a pregnancy. Neither has anything to do with what decision you would make about your own pregnancy.
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I am absolute about this. f there is any chance that baby would be DS or even be slightly mentally retarded, or have any birth defects, I would abort it. No way jose.
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[-]A preschool called to schedule an interview. I did not take the first date offer which was a week away but instead scheduled one a month away on a day that is more convenient for me. Now I feel bad that the later interview date may hurt DC's chance. Does it really matter?
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i took the latest interview dates i could get at the schools i was most interested in--i figured by then dd would have more practice at the play visits (or if it were just an interview for me, i'd have a better sense of what i wanted to ask, etc.). it worked out great and dd was accepted by 7 schools. so don't sweat it, it can work out for the best.
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[-]Ellery for a girl. It's a family name. Might use the nn Ellie.
16 replies [ Reply | Watch | Options ]I should add that my mother hates the idea and thinks it's pretentious. I like it and have a female cousin with this name as well, but I'm wondering if my mother is right.
[ Reply | Options ]I love it. It's a wonderful name, feminine but solid, nice reflections of Ellen or Eleanor, and Ellie's a good nickname if you go that way. And who was Ellery Channing? one of the Transcendentalists, I think...anyway, go for it!
[ Reply | Options ]William Ellery = signer of Dec of Independence. I'm named for his daughter (normal female name). He is a relative of William Ellery Channing - Boston minister. I like the family history and want to use it. I figure she can always use Ellie if she's embarrassed or whatever. My mother still feels like it's too pretentious.
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[-]I went on a job interview this past weekend(nanny). I loved the family and am really praying I get the job. They said they had a few interviews lined up will make a decision by the end of this month. I am still with my current employer and she told me she hasn't been contacted yet for a reference. Do you think that is a bad sign( that they haven't called my references yet) ?
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[-]BTDT moms or Admissions personnel: tips on writing the "what will your child offer our school" essay for K admissions? anything you think set your application for dc apart from others in this area? insider knowledge about what they're looking for and what big turn offs are? TIA
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[-]erb question: if a school does not require the erb (example PK Fieldston) but says it would welcome any materials, would you send a copy of your report, or have the ERB send it directly? Also, which is the minimum score would you send (if not mandatory)? thanks
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Mine was but he was the only one of his friends, all of whom seem just as bright and started at different stages soon enough after entering. I think it's just like kids learning to walk at different stages, etc. Everyone (with the means and encouragement) learns to read and walk eventually and it doesn't mean anything much exactly when, imo.
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No, they are not, but most leave K reading in public school. I started reading at age 3, but that's not very common (nor does it mean I'm a genuis :-))
[ Reply | Options ]My older daughter didn't read until the middle of first grade (she was 7); she went to Harvard and Harvard Law School! Younger was reading at 4; went to Amherst. Age they start reading is irrelevant.
[ Reply | Options ]Exactly. General rule is if they're not reading fluently by third grade there's a problem. I'm bothered by the Nest post. You want to create a lifetime love of reading so you don't push it until kid is ready. Neither of my kids were reading at the start of K but by 2nd grade were both reading several grades above.
[ Reply | Options ]that was us we were po'd but hey that is what we signed the kid up for - there are a dozen other schools we could have chosen; we figured the child is bright better to have him pushed than accomodated.
[ Reply | Options ]... and to be fair we hand the child a level c book he reads it asks a couple of words, we ask him what the book is about and he understand - so I guess what they / we are doing works - can't speak to the love part we'll find that out when our son writes a book about his childhood.
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sigh. This is such a mistake though. If there IS a problem, you don't want to wait til 3rd grade. The really important thing is whether they're progressing at a good rate, whether they're decoding -- things that indicate they *will* read w/out a problem. But if there *is* a problem, u want to catch it in 1st grade.
[ Reply | Options ]ITA. Niece and nephew are dyslexic - she hid it until the end of 2nd grade (very smart DC and remembered everything she heard), now in 7th and still behind, even after years in a special school and a lot of support. Because their parents knew what to look for, her brother was diagnosed at the beginning of 1st, transferred to a special school and should be mainstreamed after 2-3 years.
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not strictly true -- if dc is struggling in 1st grade, you shld pay attention, signed mom of dyslexic dc
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[-]any one on synthroid for hypothyroidism first detected during pregnacy ? and your age when preg ? me 39.
7 replies [ Reply | Watch | Options ]it was actually not detected until after shortly after birth of db#1 - I was 36 when he was born.
[ Reply | Options ]Yes, it was detected in early pregnancy when I was 36 (was 37 when baby was born.) My thyroid went back to normal for a few months after the birth, but then went back to under-active. I am told I will be on synthroid for life due to hashimoto's disease. I take synthroid 112 daily.
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[-]Claremont, 3's program. Would love thoughts from parents. TIA!
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[-]What is a good jeans maker for a 40 yrs old mother of 3. I have a pettite frame not in great shape, 5'4 126lbs... the gap stuff is no longer working for me. I want to invest in a good pair of jeans..
15 replies [ Reply | Watch | Options ]I just bought a pair on a whim at Target and they look great. I spent $20.00 and I'm getting tons of compliments.
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I am exactly you (except I'm 43)... my go to jeans are Joe Jeans, Honey cut. They fit well so consistently that I buy them online. Normal retail can be up to $180ish but have bought them discounted from Bluefly for $70.
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[-]Claremont nursery. I know nothing about this. Looks like parents love it, good exmissions on saavysource. But some people bash it on UB. Why? Are they bashing the whole school? Just the upper grades? New to all of this, trying to get my bearings. tx
2 replies [ Reply | Watch | Options ]op: Never mind. I just figured out the Claremont Prep (Wall St) vs. Claremont Children's School (UWS) confusion. Claremont Prep is not the pre-K with amazing exmissions, it's a separate (though possibly related?) entity that is K-12. If anyone has further clarifications, I'll be watching.
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[-]DS got 99/95/97 on ERBs -- will that be good enough for TT, comments were good.
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There are enough posted 99x3 scores on this board alone to fill most of the TT spots for kids who are not connected, so I really don't see this as some sort of foregone conclusion.
[ Reply | Options ]np: mine just got 98/95/96 and PSD said the score was fantastic. I dunno, maybe she is just trying to make us feel good, but I'm sure she's seen plenty of scores. and either way, you're one up on us.
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I agree, but there are those who love to respond that the TT schools don't discriminate against low scoring kids, which they don''t, provided the applicants can play the violin like Isaac Stern or or sing like Maria Callas.
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we're applying to dalton, trinity, collegiate, - others not considered tt on this board, SA, Speyer and Ethical
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I'm not sure it makes a diff either way, but wanted to see which was P and which V. It's a good score. That said, everything else has to be in place like above posters have said, primarily play date and then school report. (Do you have a top choice yet? Our list is not far different.)
[ Reply | Options ]We were actually unexpectedly blown away by Speyer. DS can read pretty well and is very motivated and creative. TT is security, but it also starts out pretty slow and not all that jazzy, so we're underwhelmed. If we had lots of choice, which I know we won't Collegiate, SA and Speyer are the top 3.
[ Reply | Options ]What do you mean TT is security? Great you liked Speyer, we haven't looked. Let's talk SA - I expected to love it and really didn't, felt chaotic to me. Pls tell me why you liked it? Don't have a top 3 yet, still seeing a couple more.
[ Reply | Options ]I think TT schools are vastly better at HS and really pretty lame at elementary for a kid that is at all advanced. I know others disagree and I'm not trying to pick a fight. Have close friends at SA and I like their artsy, creative and literary focus for ds. Math and science worry me, but it otherwise seems like a good fit. Perhaps because Speyer is new they give lots of detail about fab curriculum and a very individualized approach to the kids. Also, loved that they do chess and fencing and Singapore Math.
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np: come on, let's not have this fight - erbs don't really measure a kid at this age.
[ Reply | Options ]not all kids test well. My neice who is doing math, building elaborate structures,huge vocabulary got a 119 on the SB. Clearly not reflective of her abilities. Some kids don't take a test seriously. Not saying she's gifted but most likely has a higher iq than reflected by the test given at 4 yo
[ Reply | Options ]But part of giftedness is the skill to sit with an adult for one hr and stay focused and enjoy it and not want to rush. All those things are part of the test, not ancillary to it. Why don't people get that. Doesn't matter that she's doing math, can she answer the questions and take it seriously.
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[-]How long did your DD take to complete the Hunter SB5? I'm afraid DD got rushed out because next appoint. had arrived. Put my mind at ease please
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[-]For this year only, what is the highest SB score you've heard of for Hunter admission?
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It actually doesn't guaranteed your admission even if you got the highest score. Even if your dc got a phenomenal high score, it is no guarantee of brilliance or success. So, get over it and remember that he/she is only 4 years old.
[ Reply | Options ]yup. and if the parents are assholes, it counts against you. sadly, your continued posts onthis topic seem to indicate that your personality flaws will harm your child's chances.
[ Reply | Options ]ita. hunter parents secretly roll their eyes when faced with a braggy parent. our kids are all geniuses--we don't care if your kid got 1,789,000 on the SB.
[ Reply | Options ]NP: Look, she's not bragging. She's asking for a poll to see how the numbers might shake out this year (compared to last). Guess nobody wants to play.
[ Reply | Options ]OP here: Thank You! Not bragging at all, just curious what scores are like this year since everyone thinks that that the cut off goes up every year. FWIW my DS got a 140 and I am happy with it but I wanted to know what others had gotten. Everyone is so evil and assumes the worst of everyone on UB!
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Come on, she's just trying for a poll. No worse than the endless Noa, Aiden, and Jaxon baby name polls.
[ Reply | Options ]I love how the board feels quiet like no one's here, and then someone says something that pisses people off and POW there's dozens waiting in the wings to strike. Ahh, the joys of UB.
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[-]Just heard a talk from Roxana Reid from Smart City Kid, and she said the child's preschool does the Bracken. This is not how I understand the process, and asked a question and she seemed adament that this was how it is. I thought the Bracken was part of the test kids take when they show up for the OLSAT. Is there some other assessment that goes to preschools for the G&T programs? TIA
5 replies [ Reply | Watch | Options ]public preK's administer the test Bracken and OLSAT together. if you're not in public preK you take both when you show up on your designated day at a public school
[ Reply | Options ]Thanks. The talk was at a non-public preschool, so I think her information was not correct, but wasn't sure.
[ Reply | Options ]perhaps she means her school teaches the Bracken - which it should - because teh Bracken is a school readiness test (for K) - shapes, numbers, colors etc...
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[-]Seeking Advice: I am a SAHM with a 27 month old and 13 month old. They are generally healthy boys, but the 13 month old was in the hospital for 2 days (Sun night-Tues pm) for bronchiolitis. We are now treating at home and all is going well, he's getting better. Had a follow up with pedi on Wed and he saw fluid in ear. Today's follow up the fluid was still there and cloudy. no infection, no redness. the pedi left it up to us if we want to treat now or if it becomes infected (I have a script). I'm torn as I don't like medicating unless necessary, but he's been through a lot and don't want him to be uncomfortable when I can prevent it. Neither of the boys have had an ear infection and I have no experience with this. WWYD?
6 replies [ Reply | Watch | Options ]OP: thanks. I forgot to say 2 things...she did mention that if it was her child she probably would treat...but less due to the symptoms and more because he has been sick and he's not 100%. also, she did not request another follow-up appt for the bronchiolitis, so unless he has symptoms of the ear infection we probably won't be back for a few weeks (to get his flu booster). if I do start treating, we would have to go back 2 weeks after to make sure it all went well.
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[-]i have the worst dandruff--it is just gross and I am mortified
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[-]Dh is freaking me out. Wants to meet me for dinner tonight. He has some sort of "announcement" to make. Now I am worried. He said it is a good thing, though.
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promotion, new job, you're moving to Paris, won the lottery...good luck. if he wants to meet you out it cant be bad news; he would do that at home so you could scream/cry in private.
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