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  • [-]Catholic mom here - I am deeply saddened by all the new allegations of child abuse coming out and while these stories have been coming out for years, for some reason this is really eating away at me now to the point where I dont know if I can continue going to church (at least for a while). It feels like I am going along with what they did if I just turn a blind eye. any advice?

    152 replies [ Reply | Watch | More
    03.26.10, 06:49 PM Flag ]
    • I'm guessing you're in a very difficult spot, but from the outside, I would say you're rightly horrified. These are real crimes, but instead of protecting the weak and punishing the strong, the church hierarchy chose to forgive and enable the powerful at the expense of the innocent and vulnerable. It seems like that instinct is built into the structure of the institution itself.

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      03.26.10, 06:54 PM Flag
      • I have the same feelings as you do. My dcs are too young to know about the terrible history of the abuse right now. Being catholic is too much a part of my culture to turn my family away right now. If in the future some new accusations of child abuse coverup occurs, that's it. I will turn my back on the church. The historical coverup discuss me. I'm glad it has been uncovered. Hopefully there will be defrockings and changes in the church.

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        03.26.10, 07:10 PM Flag
        • I feel similarly that it is such a huge part of my life but I cant bear thinking about going to mass during Easter week...

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          03.26.10, 07:19 PM Flag
        • Can they fire the pope? He has no right to be the "spiritual leader" of your faith after what he turned his back on. It's such a hypocrisy.

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          03.26.10, 07:27 PM Flag
          • no :)

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            03.26.10, 07:39 PM Flag
          • Welcome to the real world...hypocrisy abounds in all aspects of life. Poster just has to keep focused on the core truths and uphold her beliefs, one family at a time.

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            03.26.10, 08:18 PM Flag
            • you mean if it is found that a pope has done something that led to such pain and cruelty, there can be no questioning him?

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              03.26.10, 09:02 PM Flag
              • He is, by definition, infalliable.

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                03.27.10, 09:33 AM Flag
                • He wasn't pope when he failed to end the abuse or fire the molesters i Germany and the US. The Vatican is now digging in its heels while denying that he knew the final disposition of the Wisconsin case.

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                  03.27.10, 01:35 PM Flag
          • A few days ago I said here that the pope will burn in hell and boy was I criticized. DENIAL

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            03.27.10, 04:13 AM Flag
        • Based on the church's behavior in the past, don't count on any real changes. The cover up continues.

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          03.27.10, 03:10 PM Flag
        • Do you really need more accusations? You're being an accomplice of what's going on if you take this position. You're a supporter of the pope if you simply continue to go to the church as if nothing had happened. He knew about all these cases and continued to transfer the pedophiles from one church to the other.

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          04.14.10, 04:11 AM Flag
    • np: do your priests discuss these issues during their homilies?

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      03.26.10, 07:08 PM Flag
      • op - not in the masses I have attended or maybe in very, very veiled terms. I just feel so, so sad about this. I feel like I am part of a fraud but at the same time it is a big part of my family history/tradition/identity. If I give this up, it's a huge hole in my heart. It not like I can just go "church shopping".

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        03.26.10, 07:16 PM Flag
        • You know you're not part of a fraud, but I don't know how the church allows lay people to challenge or question the laity.

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          03.26.10, 07:22 PM Flag
        • You're not allowed to challenge and that is how these disgusting child molesters get away with it. I am not a Catholic but know for sure that if I were I'd be outta there. Even thinking about the pope makes me sickened.

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          03.26.10, 07:29 PM Flag
          • op - I dont think about him at all to be honest. Pope John Paul II was beloved but Benedict is just a place holder in my opinion.

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            03.26.10, 07:39 PM Flag
            • John Paul WAS a Pope. There is a good reason he was called the People's Pope. I am not Catholic but always had a fond respect for John Paul. Benedict enabled a criminal who molested poor vulnerable boys; he turned the other way because it was cleaner and easier to do so. He's a walking, talking, breathing hypocrit. I do miss the presence of John Paul, though.

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              03.26.10, 07:43 PM Flag
              • But they both are popes. Doesn't that interfere with the Catholic belief that these men somehow are divine?

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                03.26.10, 07:50 PM Flag
                • Well I am not a Catholic but I don't think anyone would consider a man who turned away when he could have helped 200 vulnerable schoolboys who were being molestated as remotely divine.

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                  03.26.10, 07:54 PM Flag
                • op - I don't think Popes are divine even if I'm supposed to. I don't buy into nor think about the nitty-gritty of all these rules. Guess that makes me a bad catholic but I prefer to think of the bigger picture. It would be easier actually if I could just blame one person but this has been going on for years in multiple locations with masses of coverups and people involved. its so horrifying. Deaf boys? omg if that was my dc....

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                  03.26.10, 07:56 PM Flag
                  • And your pope person was told by three bishops what was going on. And this is now the spiritual head of your faith? Something is very very wrong. Catholics need to challenge, to say no, this is not acceptable to me. I will not follow this man unworthy of my devotion.

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                    03.26.10, 07:59 PM Flag
                    • honestly I think most people think he has only a few years left...

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                      03.26.10, 08:08 PM Flag
                      • he certainly has a lot to make peace with, doesn't he? i wonder if he sleeps at night now that this is all out in the open.

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                        03.26.10, 08:12 PM Flag
                    • It must be addressed by priests to their congregations.They are our spiritual leaders and have offered their lives in service.If my Parish Monsignor does not lead Mass this Palm Sunday OR address these current disclosures regarding the Pope's actions, I will call him AGAIN or show up at the Rectory.I cannot continue to participate in an Archdiocese which does not confront our very real crises.

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                      03.26.10, 08:15 PM Flag
                      • I went to confession tonight and confided in a priest I've long trusted. It wound up with me asking him how he could stand it and me telling him his answer really stunk.

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                        03.26.10, 08:23 PM Flag
                        • Good for you! This is exactly what needs to happen, and all over the world too. These priests have gotten away with blind faith for too long. Faith is wonderful when it's honorable, when leaders of the faith are not honorable, speaking up is the moral action to take. I admire you and others will as well.

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                          03.26.10, 08:35 PM Flag
                      • I hope your priest does address it, but if he doesn't, what your plan is is the only way to go to save your faith. The future hope is in younger Catholics to refuse to accept this and/or turn their backs on it.

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                        03.26.10, 08:37 PM Flag
                        • Well, I just had a long discussion with my Mom about this.She chose to raise us in the RC faith, so she's where I turned next.She's much older and was raised in a very 'missionary' church(RC).We both feel that the dogmatism of the politics in 'THE Faith' have too far interfered with our own.I don't want to politicize my own relationship w/God.I will maintain personal relationships with leaders in the Church but have decided to (not boycott, necessarily)celebrate and maintain my faith as strongly,without paying a ticket price to a flop of a production.See, I'm a blasphemer.

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                          03.27.10, 08:38 AM Flag
                        • *and maybe I'm actually growing up.

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                          03.27.10, 08:43 AM Flag
                        • yes, and you're also aware that just because someone tells you to revere is leader doesn't mean that they are worthy of being revered. actions must show that they have the character to deserve this. and letting little boys have sexual organs put in them for the pleasure of a priest and then having the present pope pretend it wasn't happening is not worthy of being revered. it's time to bust open the hyprocrisy.

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                          03.27.10, 02:00 PM Flag
                  • the "bigger picture"... what is that, exactly?

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                    03.27.10, 09:57 AM Flag
        • I understand. I felt the same way and then it occured to me that what I'm looking for is a spiritual home. The RCC is not a home in which I chose to live anymore.

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          07.28.10, 06:46 PM Flag
    • I'm not Catholic but I feel for you. Just remember that in every major religion there has been corruption throughout the ages and that doesn't mean that what you fundamentally believe is wrong--it just means that the people practicing the religion are flawed. Hold the church accountable at your local level by voicing your opinion whenever possible, but remember that your relationship with Christ is more important than any relationship with the church (as an organization).

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      03.26.10, 07:55 PM Flag
      • I totally agree with you. I think if anything remotely acceptable is to come out of this horror, it's that Catholics need to speak up about holding the pope and this father murphy person and other abusers and enablers accountable and not let them get away with it by being sheep. I think it's been allowed to happen because Catholics feel they are being bad Catholics by questioning, and look where it's gotten poor little kids who never had a chance against the big bad priests.

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        03.26.10, 08:03 PM Flag
        • I agree. The catholic church has relied on the compliance of the flock for too long.

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          03.26.10, 08:10 PM Flag
    • Advice - You can speak up in any way you can, and any time you can to stop the hypocrisy. Challenge it, don't be afraid to care enough about your faith to realize that there are bad apples in the bunch. Do not follow this pope and encourage others to do the same. Maybe in some way, you can have an impact to save the respect for the faith.

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      03.26.10, 07:57 PM Flag
    • I'm a fellow Catholic who attends church less than the rest of my family on both sides. I think there are many reasons to be turned off with organized religion, both on doctrine and due the human element. That said, i do believe my faith is a personal thing and no lousy priests or behind the times doctrine will stop me from taking what i need out of some organized spiritual devotion. You obviously need to find your own path, but don't let the evil that men do keep you following what you believe is right. Peace be with you and God bless you with your decisions.

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      03.26.10, 08:00 PM Flag
      • i agree with this. i also feel like the outsiders trying to tear down the church are just haters adding more hate to the world when the church is where i go for solace and love. the scandals are horrendous particularly since the church has been complicit in so many instnces. but tearing down the church because of this is sort of like calling for anarchy because there are criminals in our democratic society.

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        03.27.10, 06:54 AM Flag
    • Ditch organized religion!

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      03.26.10, 08:04 PM Flag
      • That really doesn't help OP. She is devoted to the church she knows and has worshipped with. She will have to do her criticism from the inside, because she doesn't want to leave.

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        03.26.10, 08:06 PM Flag
      • Better yet, bring this pope up to a tribunal and make him accountable. That'll make the next potential priest abuser think twice before he sticks his you know what into his next victim.

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        03.26.10, 08:07 PM Flag
        • Put the booze down tonight and find another hobby.

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          03.26.10, 08:13 PM Flag
          • does it bother you to think of a priest sticking his you know what into a little kid? instead of ranting back at me, why not get outraged at what has happened and that the pope enabled it. it's people like you who blow it off that have helped it continue.

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            03.26.10, 08:25 PM Flag
      • Roll eyes. Seriously, if you can't be helpful, why bother typing? Your response says gobs about you.

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        03.26.10, 08:12 PM Flag
    • I know how you feel. I certainly have issues with the Church I attend, but realized I'm going there for "ME" - not for them. For me, the Church is for praying and becoming a better person. Every large organization becomes corrupt, but people like you will help the organization return to the values it once held sacred. In my eyes, you're better than most priests. Thank you and hang in there! I send you strength!

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      03.26.10, 08:19 PM Flag
      • I am not OP but this is a very nice response.

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        03.26.10, 08:27 PM Flag
      • But all of the devoted Catholics didn't stop the abuse in the first place, people like my aunt who went to mass every single day of her life.

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        03.28.10, 05:10 PM Flag
    • I would feel guilty if I continued to be a Catholic at this point. The allegations of abuse are bad enough, but the systemic cover up, at all levels of the church, just prove it is a fundamentally corrupt and evil institution. Staying involved with, supporting and donating to this institution, once you know about the evil, makes you part of the problem.

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      03.26.10, 09:16 PM Flag
      • Sorry to say, you are very right. Young boys were ruined because no one and I mean no one, even the parents, delved into the evil that was taking place. The church system promotes shutting up and accepting what you're told. This is not "faith" as it should be, but breeding ground for corruption and pain to the most innocent among us.

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        03.26.10, 09:43 PM Flag
    • I am Christian and have yet to see these types of things going on within our Church. People who think ALL Churches are corrupt are wrong. If I was Catholic I would not keep my kids in the Church, the fact that these people are turning a blind eye to this appalling behavior (not to mention a MAJOR sin) makes me sick.

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      03.26.10, 10:18 PM Flag
      • You are being naive ! All organized religion has corruption. Why don't you ask your leaders what behavior has been excused in your denomination. I asked my Priest and my SIL asked her Reverand and we were surprised by their candor. (Neither of us attends a Catholic church.) Also, read Christopher Hitchens book 'God is not Great'. It didn't change my personal faith, but it did give me good historical knowledge about all organized religion and it makes me think twice about passing judgment on Catholics just because of their leaders appalling behavior.

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        03.27.10, 06:28 AM Flag
    • I can't even believe I'm about to respond this way, since I'm an atheist but this is what I advise: ask yourself why you go to church in the first place. If this is how you express love for your god, if this is your weekly ritual of community and expression of faith then don't stop going. Talk to your priest about the scandals, and about your discomfort. You can be a good catholic without believing 100% in the organized structure, without following the Pope like a drone.

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      03.27.10, 05:31 AM Flag
      • ita.

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        03.27.10, 06:51 AM Flag
        • ITD!! If you don't follow or support the pope you're not Catholic in the first place. If you stay in the church after all these accusations, you're SUPPORTING the pope and what's going on. And BTW, you're a sinner by omission!!

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          04.14.10, 04:23 AM Flag
      • Are you an Atheist with specific knowledge of the RC Church? They make it VERY CLEAR that it's ALL IN or YOU"RE NOT. I'm done with the RC.ORG!

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        03.27.10, 08:49 AM Flag
        • That's an extreme attitude. It's NOT all or nothing anymore.

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          03.27.10, 08:51 AM Flag
          • I (truly)respectfully disagree and my attitude is what it is.If extreme to you,remember that our experiences are very individual and deeply personal.

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            03.27.10, 08:54 AM Flag
            • Right...but your sentence sounds generalized - not individualized

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              03.27.10, 08:56 AM Flag
              • The Canons are specific and my statement read:"I'm done with the RC.ORG".47 years and I've moved from acceptance-to-tolerance to intolerance at this point. It isn't the then Cardinal-now Pope-which

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                03.27.10, 09:03 AM Flag
                • led me to this place. It is in fact, my own faith.Many experiences I've had within the church have led me closer to my own faith-and to deeper understanding of love and acceptance of its meaning and power.There's no lack of appreciation for the teaching and learning I gained but I'm not supportive of the RC structure. There's no value in place-holding and I don't want to assist in maintaining the bigotry of the prevailing foundation.

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                  03.27.10, 09:10 AM Flag
          • npIt's always been all or nothing, if you're a truly practicing Catholic.

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            03.27.10, 09:23 AM Flag
            • That's true and I grappled with it a lot when I was younger, but I came to realize that perfect Catholicism is near impossible and I don't know too many people who sincerely try to do it 100%, not even my religious in laws or my mother, who constantly go to church etc. They pick & choose like everyone else I know.

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              03.27.10, 10:40 AM Flag
        • and yet there are plenty of practicing catholics who ignore everything the pope says. the pope really has no control at this point. i agree it's a bit weird, having a head of the church who no one listens to but that seems to be how the catholic church has managed to keep moving forward and not stagnate and die.

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          03.27.10, 09:02 AM Flag
          • Right, like a dysfunctional hoarder...

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            03.27.10, 09:14 AM Flag
            • np. i respect you as an atheist. in return i ask that you please don't crap on me and my religion. this is not what we as ub moms should be teaching our dcs. and fwiw i don't get the hoarder ref at all.

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              03.27.10, 09:26 AM Flag
              • Wrong guess-I'm not the atheist above.I'm the responder.The RC Church has "crapped" on the religion.

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                03.27.10, 09:34 AM Flag
                • So why do you let someone elses actions define you and your faith.

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                  03.27.10, 02:10 PM Flag
              • the hoarder reference speaks to the RC Church's 'collecting' and 'retaining members who really don't align with their own purposes-the only difference being, they can use those numbers to further legitimize their power and have it count.An individual with hoarding issues is more easily seen as having an illness.

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                03.27.10, 11:18 AM Flag
                • huh? this is so off base!

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                  03.27.10, 03:10 PM Flag
                  • Oh really. The religion itself has remained steadfast in its opposition to reasonable,loving,responsible, honest life choices and circumstances. Many RC priests are trying to foster and lead their parishioners in community and faith, while knowing that these'issues' and realities of real life are condemned under Canonical Law.It does fall to our community(parish)leaders to insist upon change and confront their Bishops,Cardinals and Archdiocesan superiors to lobby for reform-It's that political.

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                    03.28.10, 04:14 PM Flag
          • Pray tell-What is it then, that they are "practicing'?

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            03.27.10, 09:20 AM Flag
            • catholicism. they believe that the church is the people. they have built it. if the pope wants to think it's his, good for him.

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              03.27.10, 09:25 AM Flag
              • The buzzer sounded really loudly when I read your comment.Please read the Canonical Laws more thoroughly.

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                03.27.10, 09:29 AM Flag
                • you can think whatever you want. there are plenty of divorced, pro-choice, pro-gay catholics who are the ones keeping the church going.

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                  03.27.10, 09:30 AM Flag
                  • I think this is sad.The Vatican condemns those life choices, yet allows and adopts the 'keep it in the Parish','count them as numbers','collect the $upport' and make them comfy in YOUR living room to maintain presence. I'm a gay parent,raised in the RC faith and I know better than to confuse my own parish and the RC Church as a whole.The refusal to acknowledge and reform-to address the truly faithful members falls on the Holy See and that is never gonna happen.

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                    03.27.10, 09:40 AM Flag
                    • aren't you just as much of a hypocrite as those you are scoldin then? above poster is saying there are parishes and the rc church. exactly what you are.

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                      03.27.10, 05:16 PM Flag
                      • I am not living in the RC fold; I was raised within it,though.

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                        03.28.10, 02:33 PM Flag
                        • who said you were?

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                          03.28.10, 02:46 PM Flag
                        • I'd appreciate an explanation of my hypocrisy here. I don't belong to the RC Church. I left long ago and my faith is more intact outside of that organization.

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                          03.28.10, 03:49 PM Flag
                  • by continuing to support a church and organization that actively campaigns against choice, against women's rights, against birth control, and against gay rights, they are selling themselves out, and sleeping with the enemy. It's hypocracy of the highest order.

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                    03.27.10, 09:54 AM Flag
                    • I disagree with any large organization there will be points you disagree with. I'll probably be flamed for this, but look at Ted Kennedy, he found a lot of support and motivation from his religious beliefs, but didn't believe in everything the Catholic church stands for. I think most priests know that these days. Even going through Pre-cana and multiple different churches, I've never heard a priest mention any of the above in a sermon.

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                      03.27.10, 12:27 PM Flag
                      • agree. i'm not a huge fan of the catholic church but i don't see it in black and white either.

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                        03.27.10, 04:11 PM Flag
        • That just isn't true.

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          04.06.10, 06:20 PM Flag
    • Don't turn a blind eye. Either push for real reform - as in the Pope steps down and they shine some real light into the Church - or leave the church. If you stay, you have blood on your hands.

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      03.27.10, 09:19 AM Flag
      • i think the reason these scandals are coming to light are because people shone a light. also, not to downplay the nature of these crimes but there's no blood involved. no one was killed.

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        03.27.10, 09:28 AM Flag
        • That is very,very facile.Perhaps you have no exposure or experience with the detrimental, lifelong effects of sexual molestation.Maybe you've never heard of The Inquisition?

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          03.27.10, 09:31 AM Flag
          • i think you're crazy. seriously.

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            03.27.10, 09:32 AM Flag
            • Right-as in willing to investigate the history and current belief system of the religion in which I was raised?Yes, I'm a real lunatic.

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              03.27.10, 09:48 AM Flag
          • i'm sorry you were raped by your priest. but that ax has been ground to dust. move on.

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            03.27.10, 09:32 AM Flag
            • and YOU are an idiot-clearly.I was never raped by a priest but refuse to behave as if these truths are not opportunities to effect and support major change.I'm a heretic,blasphemer and HUMAN.

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              03.27.10, 09:50 AM Flag
            • That is harsh even by UB standards. If it were your child would you be saying "Boo-hoo for you. You need to move on"?

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              03.29.10, 09:42 AM Flag
        • Children who are anally raped often blood. I meant blood in the metaphorical sense, but if you want to get technical, yes, there probably was blood involved. People who shone the light were not the church itself - the church fought and is still fighting - full disclosure. The light came from lawsuits, not from within, or from pressure by Catholics.

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          03.27.10, 09:32 AM Flag
          • omg. please. go volunteer at the rape crisis center or something. oh and catholics are the ones who exposed the crimes.

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            03.27.10, 09:34 AM Flag
            • by Catholics exposed it - do you mean that the kids who were abused sued as adults? well then yes, I agree with that.

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              03.27.10, 09:41 AM Flag
              • and their families and neighbors, obviously.

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                03.27.10, 09:50 AM Flag
                • no, they didn't - that's the bitch of it. Their families and neighbors helped cover it up, went along with the Church when it was swept under the rugs. Which is why the abused kids are coming forward AS ADULTS for reparations. Because they got sold out by their families, their neighbors, their fellow Catholics and of course by their church.

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                  03.27.10, 09:52 AM Flag
                  • i think a lot of them only came forward as adults.

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                    03.27.10, 09:55 AM Flag
                    • why do you think that?

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                      03.27.10, 09:56 AM Flag
                      • for the money.

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                        03.27.10, 09:58 AM Flag
                        • wow - you are a terrible person. I hope nothing like what happened to these kids ever happens to yours.

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                          03.27.10, 10:00 AM Flag
                        • come on. we all know plenty of people jumped on the gravy train once the money started being paid. the church wanted to the problem to go away, so anyone who cried rape got a settlement.

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                          03.27.10, 03:11 PM Flag
            • Only if we arrange to meet, so I can bitch slap you.

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              03.27.10, 09:51 AM Flag
              • I guess you'll be the one carrying a copy of MacBeth [sic]?

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                03.27.10, 09:52 AM Flag
                • no, that's me

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                  03.27.10, 09:56 AM Flag
                  • TY-I'll be wearing the shirt that reads,McBitch-free slaps for the 1st 5 hypocrites.

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                    03.27.10, 09:59 AM Flag
                • Your attempts at what imagine you believe is humor-is lame.Have you got some actual ingredients to add to this conversational soup?

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                  03.27.10, 10:03 AM Flag
          • the idiomatic phrase "blood on your hands" refers to murder.

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            03.27.10, 09:35 AM Flag
        • I don't know, I think it can really ruin your life in a lot of ways if you are victimized like this esp if no one supports/defends you.

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          03.27.10, 10:36 AM Flag
      • I completely agree with you and you have stated it so well. A pope who allowed the pain and probing that these little boys suffered needs to go and needs to be brought to accountability. Those little boys describe "cowering in the corner" when the priest came around with his di**. No pope who knew this was happening should be allowed to stay

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        03.27.10, 02:04 PM Flag
    • Also Catholic. Kind of gave up a long time ago, but with the election of the latest pope and his hard line stance and questionable past, that was kind of it for me. The hardest thing for me is the financial piece - there are legitimate, worthy things they do with some of the money they collect, but a big big piece is going to defend and protect these criminals and the hierarchy. I dunno, I go on Easter and Christmas but it's a cultural thing and I am not thrilled about it. Having a hard time figuring out what to do about my kids (who were baptized, but doubt I can in good conscience send them to Sunday School when the time comes (should be soon)...).

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      03.27.10, 10:34 AM Flag
    • I don't know. But I know what you mean - I can't see a priest without thinking "molester!"

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      03.27.10, 12:03 PM Flag
      • me neither. i now can't think of a priest w/o thinking of his you know what entering a crying child and not giving one hoot for anything but his own pleasure.

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        03.27.10, 02:06 PM Flag
    • My kids go to a Catholic school and I often lead the open house tours. This is becoming more and more a question of visiting parents--the whole "how do you keep your kids here?" question. Of course, I also wonder how they can be looking at Catholic schools given all this...

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      03.27.10, 12:14 PM Flag
      • Yes, I gave up on a catholic education for my dd bc of this. I truly love Marymount in NY and I couldn't send my dd there after the accusations. I'm seriously considering moving on to become an Episcopalian or Anglican.

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        04.14.10, 04:19 AM Flag
    • If you love your religion and want to practice it, have you considering joining the Episcopal Church? The ritual is so similar, and I imagine the doctrinal differences are few, except that it is less authoritarian.

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      03.27.10, 01:51 PM Flag
    • Your faith does not have to be tarnished by a few people who are hypocrites and do not follow the Lord. I am catholic too, and I love my church, I love my faith. I feel that the people involved in these scandals are not true catholics, and they deserve to be punished by the church and the country they live in, but there is so much good too, and that is what I look at. I don't let other peoples decisions define me and mine. Not in life, and not in religion. I break with the church on other issues too (like abortion and birth control) but I still love it.

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      03.27.10, 02:09 PM Flag
      • How is the leadership of the church, and the pope, considered not "true" catholic? Since they define what is a catholic? How can you love your church when the church itself is what did the cover up and enabled this systemic victimization? Can't you take your faith and your relationship with god and either join another church or worship on your own? If you disagree with all that your church stands for, how can you say that you are a catholic?

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        03.27.10, 03:09 PM Flag
        • the catholic church and religion is how I choose to have a relationship with god, but I don't let it dictate my life, does that make sense? What I meant is that they are not true christians and will be judged harshly by god for their actions. When I say I love my chuch, I mean MY parish, MY priest, MY congregation. MY priest is disgusted by the Pope and his actions, and his hypocrisy. My priest believes in the use of condoms to prevent the spread of disease. I agree with him, and most of what he says. I agree with what MY parish stands for, and I won't abandon my chuch if it does not succumb to the Vatican's hypocrisy.

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          03.27.10, 03:26 PM Flag
          • this.

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            03.27.10, 04:12 PM Flag
          • Roman Catholicism is not a pick and choose, selective omission tolerant religion. If you don't buy it; don't keep paying into it.

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            03.28.10, 04:03 PM Flag
            • it is actually. and that is what is not apparent to anyone who is outside of it. it seems hypocritical, counter-intuitive, contradictory, disassociative. but what has happened over the centuries is that the people have quietly made the church their own. unfortunately, that leaves the leaders to do things like rape dcs and scorn. but the people have the power to do the good and to make the church in their image. to ignore their leaders and follow their god. unless you are rc, you don't get that and you really have no right to tell those who are what to do, how guilty and complicit they may or may not be, how stupid they are, etc. no offense, but you have no right or understanding to judge any of us.

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              03.28.10, 04:09 PM Flag
              • ^scorn those who oppose them

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                03.28.10, 04:17 PM Flag
              • Oh BS-You're not fooling me and you're supporting a money grabbing, power-hoarding patriarchy. I'm opining and am absolutely labeling the Vatican. I don't judge 'you'(or 'us') as you infer. I have every right as a raised in the Church and staid of devotion 52 yr old woman, to judge for myself. I'm done.

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                03.28.10, 04:21 PM Flag
                • but you are judging me. you're telling me i'm supporting blah, blah and that i'm paying into a corrupt system, blah, blah. you don't have a right to judge me. whether you were raised in the church or not. leave it if you want but don't pick the scab and come back and shake your finger at the rest of us. move on.

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                  03.28.10, 04:23 PM Flag
                  • I'm telling you the truth.

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                    03.28.10, 04:31 PM Flag
                    • no, you're voicing an opinion. and i'm not buying it.

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                      03.28.10, 04:32 PM Flag
                • and don't go acting all"unless you're in 'the club,who are you?, so shut up about it". My disdain and dejection stem from loss, not vindication.

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                  03.28.10, 04:30 PM Flag
                  • i never said that. i was disagreeing with your pick-and-choose argument. surely you must know this isn't the case if you actually practiced rc. you are very, very defensive. which is fine. but don't try to take that anger and direct it at me. because i'm not engaging.

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                    03.28.10, 04:32 PM Flag
    • Another Catholic mom here; I am feeling the same way and really wondering what the right answer is. I don't know right now. This is a HUGE problem now. The church leadership can no longer sweep it under the rug, and their sins are now exposed to the harsh glare of daylight. I am angry, sad, the whole range of feelings. Just want you to know you're not alone!

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      03.27.10, 02:51 PM Flag
      • The right answer is to leave the Church. Not the easy answer, but the right one. Don't return until and unless the Church makes huge changes such as (1) providing true honestly and accountability about its dealings in general, and about sex abuse in specific (2) end celibacy as a requirement of clergy, (3) no longer oppose the use of condoms or other forms of birth control, (4) allow women to serve as equals in the church. You have to make the change happen. Otherwise you are part of the problem.

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        03.27.10, 03:14 PM Flag
        • i think it's presumptuous of you to tell others what to do in this case.

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          03.27.10, 04:08 PM Flag
        • leaving the church over condoms? as if anyone who doesn't want to use them does whatever the priests say? why don't i just insist they serve a nice chateau margaux at communion? you seem to think your agenda is everyone's. you seem to be a self-righteous a$$hole.

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          03.27.10, 04:10 PM Flag
          • at least I'm not a Catholic

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            04.06.10, 08:57 PM Flag
        • eff you. this is like a canadian telling me i must MOVE OUT of my country until my government provides HEALTH CARE FOR ALL!!!! DCS ARE DYING!! BLOOD!! PENISES!!!! BWAAAAAAAAAA!!!! eff off.

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          03.27.10, 05:11 PM Flag
          • You must be bored but hopefully, can do better than this.

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            03.28.10, 04:34 PM Flag
            • np. i think it's actually a pretty decent argument.

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              03.28.10, 04:38 PM Flag
        • The Better Answer is to be partof the solution. Join Voice of the Faithful. Be willing to question the "powers that be" in your parish. Advocate for change and responsiveness to the Laity.

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          04.06.10, 06:22 PM Flag
    • this pope always creeped me out, his gucci shoes etc. Not like John Paul II.

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      03.28.10, 05:09 PM Flag
      • np: ITA. He is VERY CREEPY, he kind of looks demonic. I LOVED John Paul II. The whole thing is so sad. I used to be Catholic. I just can't be anymore until they reform the church.

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        03.29.10, 09:48 AM Flag
        • JUST WANT TO REMIND YOU that people are people. 85 percent of pedophilia events happen in the home -- perpetrated BY family members AGAINST family members. Will that make you think twice about FAMILIES? PRAY for the Church. Don't leave it. You can only make change by staying in it like Anna Quindlan has chosen to do, for example. But make sure you USE LOGIC in your arguments and not just emotion. Teachers are pedophiles. Camp counselors. Fathers. Uncles. Grandfathers. Politicians. Construction workers. IT IS NOT THE JOB A PERSON HAS that contributes to what is a CRIMINAL ACT.

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          04.06.10, 06:13 PM Flag
          • what you refuse to get is that while molesters are everywhere, the church has actively covered up for them and encouraged the spread of child rape.

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            04.06.10, 09:01 PM Flag
          • You are the type of person who is part of the institutional coverup of priests screwing little vulnerable boys. And as long as people (sheep) like you exist to cover up, the fu***** of priests of little boys will continue to exist. Their pain and their blood is right in your hands. Those little boys who cowered in their beds knowing they could be the next one to have a priest put his di** in their anus had NO ONE to protect them and with people like you, they still do not. There are some who say that people like you who contribute to the coverup are, in fact, the personification of the Devil. And this just may be true. I am not Catholic but I could believe that your comments could be from a Devil laughing at those who buy your b.s.

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            04.06.10, 09:12 PM Flag
            • Wait your not Catholic? who knew? Cromwell lives!

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              04.14.10, 03:56 AM Flag
        • Absolutely creepy. And if there is a Devil he's laughin' his ass off because when it comes to Catholicism, let's face it, the Devil has won out!!

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          04.06.10, 09:18 PM Flag
    • I feel the same way, and at only time I seriously considered becoming a nun. Even majored in religious history. Now I think that if the Catholic Church paid as much attention to living children as it does to fetuses, I'd be more inclined to be a practicing Catholic. For me, this was the end of my identifying myself as a Catholic.

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      07.28.10, 06:45 PM Flag
      • this post is months old. it's really not worth re-hashing this all over again.

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        07.28.10, 06:48 PM Flag
  • [-]ever since summer started my 3.5 yo dd just wants to leave to visit her grandparents. when we get together with friends she is not interested in playing with kids she was buds with all year. she just wants to be at home until we leave

    8 replies [ Reply | Watch | More
    07.27.10, 06:27 AM Flag ]
    • Maybe she's just tired out? Or wants some family time? Or is off her routine? Or just likes her grandparents more than anything? Does she seem pretty cheerful otherwise?

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      07.27.10, 06:31 AM Flag
      • yes, she just wants nothing to do with school (they have a camp program)or school friends

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        07.27.10, 06:42 AM Flag
        • Same here. Our DD has her "school" activities and mindset and her "summer/camp" activities mindset and the twain never meet. Similar to adults having work friends and gym friends. It seems peculiar and somehow wrong when the contexts overlap.

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          07.27.10, 06:44 AM Flag
        • op. she is also very into playing/talking to herself when at home al the time

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          07.27.10, 06:45 AM Flag
          • Our DD is the same. I don't mean to speak for you but are you worried that she isn't adequately social? Our DD was the same for a period and then she got her social wings and now I think her social life is better than mine.

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            07.27.10, 06:54 AM Flag
            • yes partly. good to hear it's a passing phase

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              07.27.10, 07:13 AM Flag
              • Some kids just need more "processing" time that others. Nothing to do with you (don't take it personally) but one of my peeves is how Americans want every kid to be outgoing. Contemplative is good too.

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                07.27.10, 07:22 AM Flag
    • Nothing wrong with that in my opinion. She sees her buds all the time, seeing her grandparents may be really special to her and she's anticipating the pleasure of the visit. Also, she may be thinking about what she wants to tell them.

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      07.27.10, 06:42 AM Flag
  • [-]I'm strict and a hardass about almost everything else except sleep. It's my one soft spot. How bad is it that I have to hold DS's hand for him to go to sleep every night? 21 months.

    14 replies [ Reply | Watch | More
    07.26.10, 01:43 PM Flag ]
    • sounds like you do it for you. i doubt that he needs his hand held to go to sleep.

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      07.26.10, 01:46 PM Flag
      • I am doing it for myself in that I don't want to CIO but he really likes his hand held. Cries otherwise. Reaches out and grabs my glider.

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        07.26.10, 01:49 PM Flag
    • I'm not a very disciplined parent either, but my 16 month old is happy, even if she sleeps us with a lot, eats on top of the dining room table, and generally rules the roost. We're all happy.

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      07.26.10, 01:46 PM Flag
      • I hope that our friends are kids some day.

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        07.26.10, 02:56 PM Flag
        • I mean I hope that our kids are friends one day.

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          07.26.10, 07:30 PM Flag
    • really, there aren't that many things that are truly bad when it comes to parenting.

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      07.26.10, 01:48 PM Flag
    • not bad at all. I still have to rub my 5yo's back till she falls asleep. who cares?

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      07.26.10, 01:52 PM Flag
    • no big deal. 2 out of my 3 dc needed a whole 30-45 min bedtime process until 3-4yo. at times it's a pita, but in the big picture, it was enjoyable quiet time for both of us.

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      07.26.10, 01:59 PM Flag
    • not bad at all; you are his mom and he is comforted by you. that's a good thing. he'll grow out of it.

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      07.26.10, 02:07 PM Flag
    • I think that if you are holding your child's hand that is the only thing that is preventing me from thinking that you shouldn't be having children...you should have joined the Marines! Honestly, kids are made to be loved and needed to be touched, cuddled and enjoyed. Enjoy your child...she/he is not a German shepherd, she/he is a person.

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      07.26.10, 02:15 PM Flag
      • ITA! Drop this hardass approach to parenting and both of you will be better off.

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        07.26.10, 02:35 PM Flag
    • It is probably fine - but what do you do when you go out at night and someone else needs to get him to bed? Will he go to sleep if someone else holds his hand?

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      07.26.10, 03:14 PM Flag
    • he needs to learn to soothe himself.

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      07.26.10, 04:42 PM Flag
    • Enjoy it while it lasts! In a few years he is going to want privacy when he goes to sleep.

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      07.26.10, 08:24 PM Flag
  • [-]did anyone switch to whole milk before 1 year old? wanting to make the switch at 10 months

    9 replies [ Reply | Watch | More
    07.26.10, 12:07 PM Flag ]
    • what makes you want to do this?

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      07.26.10, 12:07 PM Flag
    • he is eating all table food and i want to stop nursing. just wondering if formula for 2months is really necessary

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      07.26.10, 12:08 PM Flag
      • I don't understand, have you been BFing? If so, can you keep going for two more months? Two months of formula (or longer really is really no big deal.

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        07.26.10, 12:18 PM Flag
    • there's a lot of nutrients and minerals in the formula/breast milk that he won't get with milk. ask your ped but imagine he would recommend waiting until closer to 1 yr.

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      07.26.10, 12:17 PM Flag
      • I agree with this. I stopped b/fing at 10.5 months and gave formula between 10.5 mo until a year.

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        07.26.10, 03:29 PM Flag
    • I did, but it was about a week after 11 months, db was almost 25 pounds, and eating three times a day.

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      07.26.10, 12:23 PM Flag
    • I added milk around 11 months. I didn't totally ween until 14 months. My pediatrician told me that if your child has already been regularly tolerating cheese and yogurt, most likely, you can move them over to milk a little earlier than a year. You have to keep in mind that guidelines are for a very broad audience. Adjust as you see fit.

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      07.26.10, 12:30 PM Flag
    • I weaned at 9 months and started whole milk at 10 or 11. I had been supplimenting with formula up to that point but then read the ingredients that showed that milk was the first ingredient. Then read the other 40+ things that they put into it and decided that plain old cows milk would be better for him. My DC is just fine. You should make your own decisions.

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      07.26.10, 03:14 PM Flag
    • ask your doc, but would do formula until a year.

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      07.26.10, 07:36 PM Flag
  • [-]Any moms who have children who are hard of hearing in one ear? My db was just born and has failed two newborn hearing screenings with the audiologist in one ear. They have ordered a diagnostic ABR to determine where the loss is happening and how extensive, but I am so upset and pray db will have a normal life and be able to speak and hear normally. Anyone have experiences they can share/

    6 replies [ Reply | Watch | More
    07.23.10, 10:33 AM Flag ]
    • My DS failed the newborn screening in one ear. Ped said this was common, usually the result of fluids in the ear, not to worry about it, and not to have him retested until he was at least 1 mo (audiologist had wanted him to be tested again at 1 week). DS also failed the second test (don't remember what age he was at that point), but passed the third one at three months. FWIW, when he failed the second test the audiologist said even with the worst case scenario (full hearing loss in one ear) DS would be able to have a normal life, speak normally, etc.

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      07.23.10, 10:43 AM Flag
      • op: Did your audiologist order an ABR too? Were they concerned? That is wonderful for you-- I pray this happens to me too. My ds startles at loud noises and appears to hear, I guess he just may not be able to hear from the left side

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        07.23.10, 10:46 AM Flag
        • OR: I *think* they did both the ABR and the OAE when I took him in for the second test. (They did two separate tests, whatever they were.) He was a very noisy breather (even when asleep) which apparently was interfered with the tests the second time - they couldn't tell if he was failing because he couldn't hear or because of the constant baby Darth Vader noises. No one (especially my ped) ever seemed that concerned, so I wasn't especially concerned either.

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          07.23.10, 11:00 AM Flag
    • DS failed the test twice while in the hospital and passed on the third try before going home. Try not to worry too much just yet. FWIW, I've been told that sometimes C-section babies fail because there's too much fluid in the ears (which would have likely been flushed out had the babies gone through the birth canal).

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      07.23.10, 10:50 AM Flag
    • My DF is deaf in one ear, and she leads a totally normal life. She's adjusted to telling people that they need to sit on her left side, and it's just a little quirk that makes her more interesting, if anything. GL!

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      07.23.10, 11:05 AM Flag
    • dd (now 2.9) failed hearing screening and ABR, was found to have mild/moderate hearing loss in both ears. Has been wearing hearing aids and has 2x week speech therapy in our home since 5 months. In all honesty, her life (and ours) is completely "normal". Her speech has developed completely on track and having professional to work with her and us (free through Early Intervention) every week for the last two years has been incredible. Most people don't notice and if they do Im happy to explain and move beyond this. I do imagine there might be social issues at some point later in life but we are doing all we can to make her a confident and resilient young lady so she can be strong in these circumstances.

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      07.26.10, 05:56 PM Flag
  • [-]Anybody with Maternal Fetal Medicine in NYC (as OB)? Rebarber, Bender, etc. Do you like them?

    20 replies [ Reply | Watch | More
    • You should search this - b/c I've seen it posted before and not all the reviews have been great. GL.

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      05.14.08, 01:41 PM Flag
      • ita - know the names from ub, talked about all the time

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        05.14.08, 01:41 PM Flag
        • op: thanks! search is actually positive except for long waits which I understand to be standard at most high risk practices.

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          05.14.08, 01:50 PM Flag
    • I delivered with Daniel Roshan who used to be part of the same group but is now priv practice on Madison Ave. No bedside manner but he was an EXCELLENT dr.

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      05.14.08, 01:42 PM Flag
    • Roshan may be competent in a crisis but he's also a lazy creep who subjects patients with totally normal pregnancies to frequent ultrasounds (not risk free) in place of an exam. That way he can push more women through this practice without having to see them personally....and probably also drive up the bill to pay for all his fancy equipment. In my case he also couldn't be bothered to double check when his nurse found a supposed breast lump (turned out she didn't know what she was doing and it wasn't even close to suspicious, but I had two weeks of worry and an unnecessary test). This is classic bad doctoring.

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      06.13.08, 09:58 AM Flag
      • Dr Roshan is an excellent high risk doctor, his practice accepts only high risk, but some low risk patients insist they are high risk. sonogram is the only way to evaluate the a baby properly thats why he does sonogram, he is the only doctor, he delivers everybody himself, he is not lazy, i had many misscariages and he was the only one who gave me a beautiful doughter. i highly recommend him to any high risk mom and advise low risk mothers to see regular ob.

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        08.18.08, 05:42 PM Flag
        • oh please. see poster below. she's low risk and booked an appt. same with me.

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          02.26.09, 01:03 PM Flag
        • I would recommend you go to anybody else but Dan Roshan. I had my first and last appointment with this inefficient practice. Both my husband and I take a day off from work for this appointment to find out he couldn't be bothered to meet with us during our first appointment and has us meet with this idiot Dr. Robinson who was more interested in our personal life than the pregnancy. I am half way home and Roshan's office has called my cell phone, left a message saying that they forgot to take blood from me so can I please come back or make an appointment. Are you kidding me???

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          07.24.10, 06:14 PM Flag
      • "fancy equipment"?? Luddite much?

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        08.18.08, 05:57 PM Flag
    • I am becoming increasingly frustrated with this practice, I am definitely high risk - have had many problems in the past and now at 17weeks this guy has not even examined me. His technicians are very nice and attentive - but whats the use of attending a practice with a guy who is supposed to be so knowledgeable when you never even see him. Previous reviews are right - His bedside manner does suck and I am consulting my old OB (who unfortunately does not deliver anymore) for another doctor. Even at this late date its worth it because I cannot deal with this man any longer.

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      01.14.09, 05:00 PM Flag
      • Dr Roshan has a wonderful bedside manner, he is just very good thats why he is busy and therfore not so much time to hold some demanding women's hand, he is there when you need him, he is kind and sensitive, truly good for a high risk patient but his practice is realy not set for a low risk woman and it is waste of a talent.

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        04.30.09, 03:07 PM Flag
    • yes - delivered my son last year. fantastic group - very personable, excellent clinicials. I was high risk and felt very comfortable with them - yes, the waits can be long. in an emergency they will see you right away.

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      01.15.09, 11:57 AM Flag
      • I am with Dr. Gaddipati- high risk doc- highly recommend.

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        01.15.09, 12:58 PM Flag
        • Roshan will do anything he can to order more tests so he can charge more. He has expensive machines which he wants to use as much as possible so he can bill as much as possible.

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          02.20.09, 07:20 PM Flag
    • I just booked an appoinment there...ugh...any other practices that people suggest...I'm not high risk, just looking for a normal OB.

      [ Reply | More ]
      02.26.09, 12:55 PM Flag
      • don't do it! not if you're not high risk. ask friends and your GP for a good recommendation. there are lots! lex OB/GYN, downtown women's etc etc. you absolutely don't need to be subjected to unnecessary ultrasounds. other docs will admit they don't know the effects of frequent ultrasounds bec they've never been used this way before. avoid avoid avoid. get yourself to a nice sensible OB.

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        02.26.09, 01:00 PM Flag
        • Thank you, I needed that comment...live on the UES...any suggestions (lex Ob/gyn and downtown women's are too far away)

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          02.26.09, 01:05 PM Flag
          • i'm sure anyone affiliated with cornell or mt sinai would be fine, just stay from hi risk, since you don't need it. go on a few interview appts, and pick one that's convenient, not too young and has a nice manner. for low risk that's all you need.

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            02.26.09, 01:38 PM Flag
    • I had a good experience with Dr. Barak Rosenn at SLR. But my regular OB delivered my dc. I'm 40 and preg now, but not yet sure if I will have same need for a specialist this time.

      [ Reply | More ]
      02.26.09, 01:03 PM Flag
    • MFM is amazing. I wasn't "high risk" but I went to them and had incredible care. Love them - can't wait to go back. The wait was not that bad as compared to any other dr's office in NYC... in my experience. They're knowledgeable, kind and responsive. I even went back for a quick check up last week and ran into one of the drs in the hallway - I had a question that I was going to make an appointment for but he just invited me into his office and chatted with me for about 10 minutes - answered all my questions and sent me off feeling good. Amazing - never had that experience before. Had fired several OB/GYNs in the city before I found MFM and could not be happier with my care. GL!

      [ Reply | More ]
      07.26.10, 12:27 PM Flag
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