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  • [-]Regardless of her spunk, ambition and dogged determination, how can a thinking, logical person think Sarah Palin is qualified to be president..? Baffling.

    139 replies [ Reply | Watch | Options ]
    11.18.09, 09:20 AM [ Flag ]
    • like any other politician, Palin is entitled and misses the spotlight. This is her chance to get back in it.

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      11.18.09, 09:22 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]
    • ITA. This woman considered a question about 'which magazines and newspapers she reads' to be manipulative.

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      11.18.09, 09:24 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]
      • What amazes me is that is an ok answer for some. "Ewww, the tricky Katie Couric asked me a surprise question I had no way of answering without preparing for it." In the middle of an interview to be the #2 political person in the country a heartbeat away from the red phone, "What is the cube root of twenty seven?" is a trick question. Not what do you read?

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        11.18.09, 09:32 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]
        • np: people that think its acceptabel think that katie couric is part of the evil liberal media and that reading/ kniowledge/reality is overrated.

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          11.18.09, 09:36 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]
          • I'm surprised they don't go, "Wait, you were tricked by who?" I mean if it was Barbara Walters or Gwen Eifel (sp?) that would be one thing but Katie? c'mon. How are you going to negotiate with King Abdullah?

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            11.18.09, 10:04 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]
      • or: well exactly. And isn't that telling? That she needs to "prepare" a response about what she reads? Because perhaps she doesn't read anything of real substance? Which speaks to how much she KNOWS about the world around her? Surreal all of it, really. I'm not running for president but could come up "the right" answer in a heartbeat.

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        11.18.09, 09:42 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]
      • I thought is was hilarious that she referred to Couric as "perky"--that woman could out-perky anybody...

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        11.18.09, 10:40 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]
    • IF you agree with her, you mgith think she is qualified. there is a really strong anti-elite current in US political thought, and she is seen as a great example of that

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      11.18.09, 09:26 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]
      • ITA. I wouldn't hire Sarah Palin to be a showroom assistant, hanging up clothing that customers try on (I don't think she's smart enough to put everything back where it actually belongs), but I know that there are people out there that think well-educated, articulate people are scary and shouldn't be making decisions that impact "real people". I am not the smartest person out there, I don't have the best education, but I want people who are a lot smarter than I am making the decisions that I know I'm not capable of sorting through.

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        11.18.09, 09:56 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]
      • op: I get anti elite - I really do. But I do not get anti, plain old qualified. Without an ounce of sarcasm, based on competence alone - I am more qualified. And I'm no Einstein.

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        11.18.09, 10:07 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]
        • np: i think any one of us could do as good a job as that crazy eskimo.

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          11.18.09, 10:12 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]
        • ITA. In America, anti-elite appears to mean anti-qualified or pro-moron. I hate politicians who wear their ignorance and incompetence as a badge of honor. Other than politics, where else in life do we take pride selecting the most unqualified person for the job?

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          11.18.09, 12:11 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
    • Her resume is quite similar to what Barrack Obama's was before he was elected, with the minor difference that Sarah Palin had some executive experience, and he did not. I personally detest Sarah Palin, but the level of Orwellian doublethink that surrounds the issue of her qualifications vis-a-vis those of our sitting president astounds me.

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      11.18.09, 09:54 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]
      • Has she ever read the US Constitution? He taught law school classes on Constitutional Law. I think there is a substantial difference in their resumes, he actually a respectable one. Her's is a bad joke.

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        11.18.09, 09:58 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]
        • A bad joke? You can't possibly even mean that. She was a mayor and a governor.

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          11.18.09, 10:01 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]
          • you can't possibly compare her education to Obama's. She went to 4 different colleges to end up with a degree in journalism and a goal to be a sports commentator on tv. She is a total lightweight.

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            11.18.09, 10:04 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]
            • She's done pretty well for being such a dumb lightweight. Of course, Obama has vastly superior academic credentials, but I don't understand why you think Palin's executive experience is irrelevant, even so.

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              11.18.09, 10:10 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]
              • The "executive experience" you claim she has is laughable. She was the mayor of a small town, with no real authority (all major departments/infrastructure were handled at the county or state level - she had no authority over police or fire dep'ts). She couldn't handle the responsibility of being Governor of Alaska, so she quit.

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                11.18.09, 10:18 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]
                • Still better than zero. Also, I'm not sure where you get the idea that she could not handle the responsibility of being Governor of Alaska. Looks to me like she (correctly, if somewhat cynically) saw that she had the opportunity to become a national figure, and like many politicians have and would, left her state position when it no longer suited her ambitions.

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                  11.18.09, 10:29 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]
                  • I think you are the one drinking some serious KoolAid. She's not a "national figure", she's a laughingstock, getting into a public shouting match with a teenager. If she wants to be taken seriously, she needs to start acting like it. Finishing the job that she was elected to do would have been a place to start, since she quit that job, she has to make up some ground - let her start publicly speaking on real policy issues to serious groups - Heritage, AIE. Until then, she's just a bad joke who couldn't handle the job she had.

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                    11.18.09, 10:39 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]
                  • NP. Hold on. You seem to think SP's experience counts even if she wasn't very good and showed no interest in trying to improve. If she's a lousy mayor/governor, then her experience counts against her, not for her.

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                    11.18.09, 12:15 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
          • Mayor of a town smaller than most NYC suburbs and used it as her personal feifdom (zoning violations ignored so she could sell her house?). She was elected governor as a reaction to widespread corruption accusations against the incumbent and didn't last half her term. It took her 6+ years and at least 4 colleges to get a bachelor's degree from a 5th rate institution. Wow, she's impressive. If she really wants to build a resume, let her start speaking, on the record, to groups like the Council on Foreign Relations, even the Heritage Foundation would be a good place for her to start, and get out of the gutter war with her grandson's teenaged father. Right now, she looks like a publicity whore with no common sense, not a serious president...

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            11.18.09, 10:10 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]
          • A dean at a small college has more people they are responsible for than the mayor of Wasilla. And apparently the part time job of governor of Alaska was too much for her.

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            11.18.09, 10:16 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]
            • And this is (1) more or (2) less executive responsibility/experience than Obama had before the Presidency? As I said, doublethink.

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              11.18.09, 10:19 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]
              • Your post exists in a vacuum. There are many people I loathe as ppoliticians, but they are qualified, regardless of my opinion of their views. Stop parcing a poor analogy.

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                11.18.09, 10:22 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]
              • No one ever claimed that he had "executive experience" that you seem to think is all that is the only qualifying factor. His supporters understood that he was/is smart enough to understand his job and it's responsibilities. She, for all her "executive experience", is simply not smart or engaged or capable of understanding the ramifications of her decisions (hence, she quit the only serious job she's ever had because she didn't understand what she had signed on for and couldn't actually do the job).

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                11.18.09, 10:24 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]
              • But what Obama brought to the table was not Executive experience. I mean John McCain has none either. He never had a command position in the Navy. This is like arguing she should get it because she was the best baton twirler.

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                11.18.09, 10:26 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]
                • Right, suggesting that being a state governor is relevant preparation for the presidency is like suggesting a baton twirler is.

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                  11.18.09, 10:32 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]
                  • So the job she quit because it was too much is what shows she is qualified?

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                    11.18.09, 10:34 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]
                    • Umm, what makes you think the job was too much for her? It seems pretty clear to me she dumped it to further her national aspirations. I'm no fan of hers, but that says "smart move" to me, not "dummy who couldn't handle being Governor."

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                      11.18.09, 10:37 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]
                      • How did quitting further her national aspirations?

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                        11.18.09, 10:42 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]
                      • You are almost unique in holding that position. Everyone I've heard, GOPer's included, think it was an idiotic and perplexing move.

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                        11.18.09, 10:43 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]
                      • If she had "national aspirations" beyond her 15 minutes of fame she wouldn't be whining about not liking the photo on the cover of Newsweek or getting in the mud with her grandson's idiot of a father.

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                        11.18.09, 10:44 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]
                        • Is she not the most visible and discussed Republican political figure right now? Don't get me wrong, as a moderate conservative the Sarah Palinization of the GOP makes me weep and gnash my teeth -- you have no idea what it is like lol -- but to characterize her as anything other than a shrewd and capable self-promoter strikes me as inconsistent with the facts.

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                          11.18.09, 10:52 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]
                        • But she's not being discussed in a good way. The focus has been on the soap opera of her life, not where the focus should be. If she has serious ideas, she needs to get them out - until then, she's just another media whore.

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                          11.18.09, 10:58 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]
                        • do you think the majority of Americans view her favorably now? 2/3 Americans say "No." to her running for WH in 2012. 7/10 say she is unqualified. And those numbers are dropping.

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                          11.18.09, 11:00 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]
                        • I don't think anyone willing to publicly trade insults with Levi Johnson has much in the way of common sense. Media savvy, sure, but that should not be enough to be a viable candidate for president.

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                          11.18.09, 11:11 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]
                        • Again with the public insult comment. Do you only watch Olbermann, Maddow, and read the Times?

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                          11.18.09, 04:17 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
                        • Where is she making serious policy statements? Is she talking to AEI? No, she's on Oprah and Twitter, trying to sell a book and inviting that kid to Thanksgiving dinner. She needs to climb out of the gutter and start talking policy before she can or should be taken seriously.

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                          11.18.09, 05:16 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
              • If Obama ever held a class officer position in high school or college, then Palin's experience in Alaska does represent LESS executive experience than he has. It doesn't sound like you have ever been there or lived there or know anyone in Alaska?

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                11.18.09, 11:17 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]
          • Mayor of Walissa (sp?) is basically a popularity contest. Governor was that spunk and determination.

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            11.18.09, 10:22 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]
          • I can't stand her but I don't think her resume is the problem, being a governor is good enough (worked for reagan)

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            11.18.09, 10:32 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]
            • Different states have different types of governments and make very different demands on their governors. California has a very active, demanding, executive office. Alaska (like Texas) does not. This was as true when Ann Richards was governor as it was when GWB was.

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              11.18.09, 10:39 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]
              • Could answer. You managed to insult Palin and Bush at the same time.

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                11.18.09, 10:42 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]
                • Like how I did that?

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                  11.18.09, 11:01 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]
                  • I hate liberals - you can't get past Bush. Let it go, already - sheesh.

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                    11.18.09, 04:23 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
                    • Hey dopey, I gave California credit for having a demanding executive -- aka Reagan. GHWBush had no experience as governor. Texas for GWBush. See, I went back for all the R presidents over my life time. (And I'm not a liberal. If I was I wouldn't have bad mouthed Ann Richards. They love her -- although God knows why.)

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                      11.18.09, 08:21 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
        • If Obama had ever read the Constitution he would know there is nothing in the Constitution that permits him to do most of what he has done (and wants to do) as President. Obama has more contempt for the constitution than any President in my lifetime.

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          11.18.09, 08:56 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
          • If you want people to flame you for being an idiot why not post that breast feeding sucks or being a SAHM is for suckers like all the other masochists?

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            11.19.09, 07:09 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]
      • executive experience, in this case, is a red herring. McCain ddn't have any. and obama had more private sector experience thatn either mccain or palin. but if you want to make obama look unqualified, you drag this argument out.

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        11.18.09, 10:39 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]
        • So black and White. Obama had lots of experience and the Republicans had none. What did Obama do exactly? I know he wrote a couple of books? Sounds like that is about it. But, all that shows is that he has a huge ego.

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          11.18.09, 10:44 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]
        • You're really saying that executive experience is a red herring? Bizarre. BTW, I'm not attempting to make Obama look bad: I think Obama won the election because he was both a better candidate and a better campaigner than John McCain. The point is that, viewed objectively, Obama's and Palin's experience are sufficiently equivalent that it is irrational to view her as grossly unqualified while treating Obama as qualified. FWIW, I voted for Obama, but the endless and unfair Palin-bashing is most unreasonable.

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          11.18.09, 10:46 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]
          • np: Only if you think the only experience which counts is experience as the executive in the public sector. Why is this so hard a point to get?

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            11.18.09, 10:56 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]
          • i'm saying in thsi context it is. republicans decided aht "executive experience" was the standard after they picked Palin. McCain had no executive experince

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            11.18.09, 01:59 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
        • "private sector" ??? You must be joking. Obama never did anything in the private sector. Every job he ever had was a government or government funded job of some sort. Nothing "private" about any of them.

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          11.18.09, 08:53 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
          • Same for Nixon, Ford, McCain, Bob Dole, Clinton, Carter (for the most part)... By this logic we should elect whom? I have it Bloomberg-Corzine 2012!

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            11.19.09, 06:55 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]
            • PP: Right. I didn't say "private sector" experience is a qualification for the Presidency or any other office, because if it were the list of "qualified" people would be very small. I was just objecting to anyone saying Obama had private sector experience when he has not.

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              11.19.09, 07:55 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]
            • And I would vote for them

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              11.19.09, 08:03 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
          • um, he and Michelle met while working for the same private law firm. When has John McCain ever worked in the private sector? Gov't salary from birth to earth.

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            11.20.09, 07:31 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
      • np: I see it like this - sometimes you interview someone inexperienced in the actual job and hire them anyway because their education/degrees, life experience, other job experience, other credentials and intelligence lead you to believe that they will be very good at that job. Then you meet other people, whose resume seems to suggest that they have relevant experience at the job and yet based on their education/degrees and your dealings with them, you truly wonder how they ever got the job. Oftentimes you find out that the job was not really what it appeared to be, or that there was nepotism involved or that there were company "politics" at play and somehow this person ended up in a place far beyond their abilities.

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        11.18.09, 10:43 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]
      • their experience was about the same level. his education is superior, but there are lots of qualified intelligent people who don't have access to that level of academia. palin is probably not one of them, but i am completely offended as a woman by the sexist jabs at her by her detractors. between how the dems treated hillary and palin, they have lost my respect.

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        11.18.09, 10:43 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]
        • Intelligent people, of either gender, don't consider "what newspapers do you read" to be a trick question or one that needs prep. My grandmother, who never graduated from high school, could have answered that question without stumbling over it (and had a real answer - the Miami Herald). Palin couldn't answer it and didn't (and still hasn't). I don't think that showing Palin as she really is, inarticulate and willfully ignorant, is unfair or sexist.

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          11.18.09, 11:39 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]
          • I think her point was the mainstream media was just looking to find something wrong with her. She was trying to guard her words. Honestly, you should get passed the fact that you don't like Republicans and look at it in a fair light. She knew she was walking into a lion's den and her handlers were keeping a muzzle on her. I think she deserves a pass. Both parties have candidates that say stupid things all the time. Biden for one, Gore with the internet, Bush, etc...

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            11.18.09, 04:27 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
            • No, that was her explanation after the fact for why she flubbed the question. It's not that I don't like Republicans, I've voted for Republicans, I just don't like her. There were at least 3 other Republican women who should have been on that ticket before her - Kay Bailey Hutchinson, Olympia Snow and Susan Collins would all have been much better choices. If Palin couldn't handle a real softball from Katie Couric without being caught off guard, how would she be with Vladimir Putin?

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              11.18.09, 05:29 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
            • But see this is what kills me, Gore never said he invented the internet. "During my service in the United States Congress, I took the initiative in creating the Internet. I took the initiative in moving forward a whole range of initiatives that have proven to be important to our country's economic growth and environmental protection, improvements in our educational system." A. Gore But you repeat a lie enough and the dopes out in the hinterland who won't bother to read and figure things out for themselves will buy it hook line and sinker.

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              11.19.09, 07:23 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
            • what words could she have possibly been trying to guard in reply to that question? "oooh Katie, I read the Star every time I'm at the supermarket buying moose chops!" It's not like a complex policy question.

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              11.20.09, 07:29 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
        • What I don't get is that she keeps getting a pass on being so poorly qualified. Bobby Jindal is smarter than she is, and usually better prepared/more articulate but when he did so poorly on the Republican response to an Obama address to Congress he faded into the woodwork. She keeps inserting her foot into her mouth, gets called on it, responds "you're being sexist", and keeps going. Pointing out her absolute lack of education and non-existant intellectual curiosity isn't sexist.

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          11.18.09, 01:08 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
      • Written like someone who has never set foot in Alaska, much less Wasilla! A top high school student with one government class under their belt could have run circles around her in being a mayor of her tiny hamlet, or governor of Alaska.

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        11.18.09, 11:12 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]
      • ITTTTTA

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        11.19.09, 07:57 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
    • What makes a community activist qualified to be President? What about an actor or a peanut farmer?

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      11.18.09, 10:20 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]
      • The others were intelligent people, with grasp and critical thinking skills.

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        11.18.09, 10:25 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]
        • Yeah, because I'm sure he made Pres. of Harvard Law Review or taught constitutional law at UChi for twelve years without either intelligence OR critical thinking skills. Do you know what a total asshat you sound like when you write stuff like this?

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          11.18.09, 04:55 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
        • no. one of them has good PEOPLE skills and is a wonderful prolific speaker. the peanut farmer, I am still scratching my head about that one... I guess other than party affiliation they can both pride themselves in the fact that they are both nobel laureates?

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          11.19.09, 07:11 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]
          • Jimmy Carter was a nuclear engineer in the Navy. He was no hayseed. He also was a non-Washington person in the post Nixon era.

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            11.19.09, 07:52 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
            • and he lasted only 4 years. people were disenchanted with nixon, fine. Sorry, I was half kidding with my comments. I am (obviously) no huge carter fan, but the truth is he is a very intelligent guy. not much street smarts though IMVHO which I think is a large part of why he was a 1 term president. my point was more that you dont have to be a senior senator with 30 years of experience in politics to be elected president.

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              11.20.09, 04:07 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]
              • gotcha. I think there was some really dirty shit that hurt him (Iran/Contra type stuff between RR and the mullahs) and of course the gas thing. But his ultimate demise was that he was too much executive type and not enough legislator/politician.

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                11.20.09, 04:30 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
    • More qualified that Obama, easily. She actually ran a state while he was just 1 of 100 senators (and he rarely voted, instead voting "present" on hard issues). I don't want her to be president, for my own reasons, but she is definitely "qualified".

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      11.18.09, 10:46 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]
      • The basic issue is that the people decided in 2008 that they did not want "qualified". McCain was far and away the most qualified of the 4, with Biden clearly in second place. McCain realized his qualifications were a liability and chose her in an attempt to dilute his qualifications. But in the end, and unqualified President trumped an unqualified Vice President in the eyes of the people. Now, a year later we are just starting to see the result of that choice, and just starting to realize it might have been a mistake.

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        11.18.09, 09:02 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
        • thank you. 100% on target. but hard to say things like this on the liberal dominated UB.

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          11.19.09, 07:12 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]
        • um yeah--his "qualifications" were a liability? How about that he had foolishly sold out his "maverick" positions to kowtow to GWB, turned his back on his own bipartisan immigration bill, and suddenly seemed--in contrast to 2000--older, weaker, less decisive? In an attempt to reassure the right he lurched and stumbled--couldn't decide how to handle the financial crisis, and then yes--picked the MILF from Alaska instead of Pawlenty or some other serious contender. Foolish, foolish, foolish. And seriously--I'd just love to hear what you think he'd have done differently to solve the financial crisis since he certainly couldn't articulate it thirteen months ago.

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          11.20.09, 07:26 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
    • Baffles me too. Why oh why did McCain have to choose her as a running mate. Death sentence.

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      11.18.09, 11:02 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]
    • I hate spunk.

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      11.18.09, 11:03 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]
    • I'm not sure how relevant "executive experience" is. It seems very important to American voters, but I wonder about it. I'm not American, but it appears that the most important aspect of being President is being able to get Congress to pass the bills you want, as painlessly as you can. Doesn't someone with experience in Congress have a higher chance of getting that right? I mean, even if you've run a city, or a state, the issues you'll be dealing with as a head of a country are entirely different.

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      11.18.09, 01:04 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
      • The problem is that as a governor, for the most part, you don't have to take stands which piss off half the people. As a Senator, you have to vote on gun control/immigration/funding bills/stimulus packages/etc. so there is all this history behind you. (I'm not saying this is ACTUALLY bad, just that this is one of the reasons political scientists/talking heads often give for why so many more modern presidents have been governors than legislators.)

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        11.18.09, 01:48 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
      • The U.S. President is in charge of the federal executive branch -- probably the largest organization in the country, not even counting active duty military as employees -- and most of the day-to-day is managing the demands of that. It is an overwhelmingly huge responsibility. I would imagine that much of the actual work is quite similar -- although more complex and stressful due to the higher stakes, larger scale, and lower degree of control over the organization -- to being the CEO of a big multinational corporation like GE or IBM. Obviously legislative affairs is a larger proportion of the President's work than it would be in a private organization, and Obama's health care priorities throw that into more focus, but managing the executiv...

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        11.18.09, 01:52 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
        • branch is a gigantic task.

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          11.18.09, 01:54 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
        • np: Is it your POV that the POTUS spends some significant percentage of his time "managing" the Federal Government? If so, what do you mean by "managing"?

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          11.18.09, 02:01 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
          • obviously he has to order all the notepads adn schedule everyone's vacation.

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            11.18.09, 02:09 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
            • Right, and fill out the TPS reports, don't forget that. Are you seriously saying that there are not enough important policy decisions that are elevated to the President for consideration that it does not fill up a bunch of his time?

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              11.18.09, 02:13 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
            • and keeping track of paid time off for 1,800,000 employees. (Thank God for the postmaster general! Throw in the USPS and even Obama would be in over his head.)

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              11.18.09, 02:26 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
    • She winks a lot and tries to be witty. But after that I really don't think she is very qualified. President Obama is a very intelligent person who can think on his feet. I can not say the same about Palin.

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      11.18.09, 04:39 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
      • Really? I notice without a teleprompter he kinda sucks. "Uh, uh, uh,...."

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        11.18.09, 04:42 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
        • NP: that is just dumb. Have you never seen him in a debate/press conference? Did you see him on O'Reilly Factor? Granted, O'Reilly is a left wing liberal douche so they probably reviewed all the questions ahead of time...

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          11.19.09, 06:58 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]
    • Because some people vote with their "guts" and not with their head. It's about who they would share a beer with and pall around with. Voting for the smarter more capable candidate is an admission that the voter is not all that bright and no one wants to feel bad about themselves right? Palin makes peoe feel tough and cool because she can shoot a moose. It's the whole cowboy mystique. Plus, having a degree or an office job does not necessarily make one intelligent.

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      11.18.09, 05:04 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
    • I like Palin's values and I know other people who do as well. I don't think she is qualified so it would be hard to vote for her in 2012. It's interesting to me how one's intelligence is measured on how well they can deliver a speech and how cleverly they might come up with an answer, oh and being attractive doesn't hurt (ie. Clinton, Obama) One thing to keep in mind though is people are willing to look past this. The jokes about Bush being dumb were relentless and he was elected twice. My vote included.

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      11.18.09, 05:05 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
      • oh, and Palin isn't attractive? Snort. All of those GOP nerdlings were acting like eighth grade boys. As to intelligence--does that really not matter to you? And no, not just "cleverly" answering a question, but intellectual depth, understanding, curiosity...that's not important to you? Just the "values" of someone who seems to be fundamentally dishonest, ruthless, disloyal...? And btw, you still feel good about voting for Bush--really?

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        11.18.09, 05:41 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
        • I guess Palin is attractive, that hair just bothers me. Unfortunately voting for me has come down to choosing the lesser of 2 evils, which is what I did when Bush was running. In the last election I wasn't happy with either candidate so I didn't vote for either. Of course intelligence matters, my point was how is seems to be determined by the masses. As for dishonest, ruthless and disloyal I'm not sure what your referring too.

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          11.18.09, 06:04 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
          • Maybe you should ask anyone in the McCain camp what I'm referring to. I think the woman is pathological.

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            11.18.09, 08:28 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
    • people think she is qualified because she is, sadly, still smarter than about 75% of the US population

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      11.18.09, 06:13 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
      • Isn't it amazing what 40 years of "dumbing down" of the public education system in the US has done? We used to rank near the top world-wide, and where are we now?

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        11.18.09, 09:06 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
        • Sadly, with people like you.

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          11.19.09, 04:42 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]
        • Yes, this is really disturbing. Take a look at any top college, and a large fraction of the students are of Asian decent. I worry where we will be in another 40 years.

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          11.19.09, 08:53 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]
    • I said the same thing about one junior senator from chicago. still saying it.

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      11.19.09, 03:53 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]
    • People believed Obama was qualified...baffling.

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      11.19.09, 07:55 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
    • Why is this thread still alive? We all know that Sarah Palin in nowhere near qualified to be pres.

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      11.19.09, 08:30 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
    • No, but she made a darn good cheerleader.

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      11.19.09, 08:34 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
  • [-]Therapist mom here - had a long day, on a wave, ask me anything.

    28 replies [ Reply | Watch | Options ]
    11.18.09, 07:54 PM [ Flag ]
    • Are you bored to death during your sessions?

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      11.18.09, 07:57 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
      • sometimes... sometimes just depressed.

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        11.18.09, 07:58 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
        • this being an anonymous board: do you ever get interested/emotionally involved in your job? Like you think about a patient's problem on the way home?

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          11.18.09, 08:00 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
          • Yes. I have two cases like that - I have a couple that used to swing, stopped, now have a baby, also have a man who got married for all the wrogn reasons, have a baby and isn't really in love with his wife, but loves the kid. It's sad.

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            11.18.09, 08:04 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
            • Thanks. I was always wondering if therapists actually care (sometimes), or they always just secretly look at their watches waiting when we boring wretched souls go away.

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              11.18.09, 08:09 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
              • I do care, especially when people seem to be caged, locked in their own bodies, unable to help themselves.

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                11.18.09, 08:11 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
                • np: I thought therapists weren't supposed to tell people what to do.

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                  11.18.09, 08:13 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
                  • we don't tell them, but we do offer advice. Especially if they indicate that they want something and don't know how to go about it

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                    11.18.09, 08:18 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
    • What is the purpose of a therapist? (seriously, I'm not being snarky.)

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      11.18.09, 08:02 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
    • Do you believe in a classical psychoanalysis, or you think it is over?

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      11.18.09, 08:03 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
      • I think many people these days are so lonely, especially in NYC. So many people get married, have kids, have friends and despite all that are so alone. I think I am a friend for hire sometimes, someone that can listen, and doesn’t judge, gives advice, sheds light on a new perspective, a new outlook. If you can help change someone’s perspective you can have change happen in the physical world.

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        11.18.09, 08:08 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
        • What is your take on the fact that meds can change perspective in a very tangible way?

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          11.18.09, 08:12 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
          • I’m not a Psychiatrist, I’m a LCSW. I am aware of the fact that some people need meds to be able to literally survive. I refer patients to Psychiatrists if I feel that they need more help. In a perfect world talking, opening up, facing issues would get people to straighten up, deal and get better. But in this world it’s not the case, plus some psychotic people do need meds and these are beyond the scope of my practice.

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            11.18.09, 08:24 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
    • Do you have times where you question the value of therapy, and your chosen profession altogether? I know several MSW's who feel this way, my sister is one of them.

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      11.18.09, 08:05 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
      • I do. I don't think it's science. I think of myself as someonw who listens, it's not about analysis.

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        11.18.09, 08:08 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
    • How should I deal with my alcoholic borderline personality father? Cut him out completely? Sad he won't have a relationship with dd but maybe it is for the best.

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      11.18.09, 08:11 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
      • I personally don’t believe in a rigid definition of “family” – sometimes blood can’t overcome hard personalities, sometimes past experiences affect the way we look at parents, siblings, etc. I have many patients that complain, especially around the holiday season, that they have to go to dinners with their family, however they don’t feel close to those people – a lot of anger, hurt bottled in, yet they go to dinner, act, put on a happy face while questioning the whole “production”. Your father may not have been a good father, and he may never be but he can still be an excellent grandfather, loving and caring, drinking problem or not. However, if he is not interested, doesn’t show affection etc, the fact that he is blood ...

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        11.18.09, 08:17 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
    • Any advice on surviving 6th grade? I feel so helpless when dd reveals what's going on socially.

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      11.18.09, 08:14 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
    • how many years after therapist and patient stop being therapist and patient is it ok for them to have a romantic relationship?

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      11.18.09, 08:26 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
    • Do you think there is anything that can be done to change a person with a clear cut narcissistic personality disorder, or I should just run away? Is this condition genetic or acquired?

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      11.18.09, 08:39 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
    • How does one go about choosing a good psychologist? What resources would you recommend?

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      11.19.09, 03:19 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]
    • Trailer trash mom here- how can I get a MILF with two kids to stop calling my boyfriend to ask if she can move in/spend the night?

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      11.19.09, 07:41 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]
    • Let me preface this by saying that I have definitely benefited from therapy at different times in my life. I do notice, however, that many people who choose to study/practice some sort of mental therapy are generally the people who seem most screwed up. Do you think the majority of people who choose some type of psycho therapy as a profession are trying to fix themselves?

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      11.20.09, 07:26 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
  • [-]When do sibling applicants hear about kindergarten? Not sure that my ds will get in and very nervous.

    15 replies [ Reply | Watch | Options ]
    11.20.09, 05:20 PM [ Flag ]
    • If you applied through Early Notification then you hear sometime in December or January. If you're so nervous, what's the matter? Why can't you talk candidly with the AD. If you're nervous, maybe the school isn't the right fit for the next child. I have three dc in three different schools. Sure it's a lot of work, but I care that they have the right place for themselves. I get so annoyed with selfish parents who just want expedience and don't look at other schools for second, third and fourth kids. Did you even bother to apply to another school or two? Take the tour?

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      11.20.09, 05:31 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
      • I hear that schools are trying to admit more only children from older parents so they won't have so many difficult sibling cases.

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        11.20.09, 05:32 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
        • The dumbest kids in my ds class are siblings. Schools should take kids who merit the spots and not stupid siblings. Would help for development too.

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          11.20.09, 05:40 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
          • Dinging sibs is surely *not* good for development! It just makes families angry.

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            11.20.09, 05:44 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
            • Yes, it does not do much for community spirit...

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              11.20.09, 05:45 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
              • Better to be dinged at the start than counseled out after a few years.

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                11.20.09, 05:47 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
                • I highly doubt many of the dinged sibs at most of these schools would end up counseled out. Maybe they'd be average or below average students, but they'd probably do just as well as many of the kids there. I really think it's more about making room for new kids they really want.

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                  11.20.09, 05:50 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
                • Our #3 was dinged, with 99erbs, 2nd round hunter scores, and with what our psd was such a good school report, she did not think it was worth applying elsewhere. So we didn't, and ended up having to scramble. Sometimes there is just not enough space, we were not big donors, just kind of unimportant people.

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                  11.20.09, 05:51 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
                  • OMG I can't even imagine how upset you must have been, assuming this post is real (and I really want to believe it isn't).

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                    11.20.09, 05:52 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
                    • Sadly, it is real, and while dc is very happy now at another school, I feel unwelcome at the school now, and I used to be very involved. I feel like they do not like us, and it is hurtful for younger one to now come along to school functions etc. Raises questions I do not want him to deal with at such a young age.

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                      11.20.09, 05:55 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
        • Sounds like crap. Perhaps you are young with many offspring.

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          11.20.09, 05:43 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
        • only children from older parents often come with all kind of other issues.

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          11.20.09, 05:45 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
      • Did you even....why so aggressive?

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        11.20.09, 05:41 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
      • There are so many sibs in my ds class that there is barely room for any new families in the school. Agree that sibs tend to be the weakest in the class and the parents get really clannish.

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        11.20.09, 05:48 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
  • [-]Off the "DIVORCE" post what is the worst divorce you have ever heard? Me: childhood sweethearts, DH takes off with make BFF, yes he was gay.

    18 replies [ Reply | Watch | Options ]
    11.20.09, 01:31 PM [ Flag ]
    • Friends parents divorced after 25 or 30 years of marriage. The day after the divorce was final the father married the mother's bf. Literally the very next day. The mother had no idea they were involved until that day.

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      11.20.09, 01:39 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
    • gossip

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      11.20.09, 01:40 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
    • couple had to live bi-coastal for work reasons at the beginning of the marriage (ny/la) but they spent every weekend together. Went on for a few months. After a vacation in HI the wife gets a call from sister saying we can't keep this from you any longer but it seems dh is leading a double life with a totally different woman.... it was heart breaking

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      11.20.09, 01:45 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
    • a coworker got married for the first time long before I knew her. on the honeymoon her husband tells her he "thinks" he's gay. why couldn't have said it the day before? Happy ending, she's now married to a great guy and really doing well.

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      11.20.09, 01:55 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
    • dh is an alcoholic screw-up. dw loves him but can't stand living with him anymore and he won't get help. she tells him she wants a divorce, doesn't want anything from him (he comes from a wealthy family), feels terrible. things didn't work out, but she didn't blame him. a few weeks later, she finds he has moved in with a girlfriend she did not know about, a girlfriend he knocked up and has been keeping secret! he lets this woman watch their child during his visits! and this woman is TRASHY. when she answers the phone, won't let dw speak with her own son, etc.

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      11.20.09, 02:00 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
    • DH told on his honeymoon that DW made the wrong decision and wants out. Get divorced, she gets the house. He remarries and 3 months later DW2 tells him she's a lesbian and her partner moves into the house, DH moves to the basement, eventually they too get divorced. Not making this up.

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      11.20.09, 02:09 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
    • DF was pregnant w/ # 3. Dh suggested that they sell their home to buy a bigger one, dh sells house and than backs out of new home purchase. Moves family into a dumpy rental tells dw that he is sleeping with her bf and wants a divorce. Df miscarries #3. Dh cancels all credit cards AND turns off the electricity on his own dcs. Dh (who makes over 2 million a year) hides assets and leaves the country.

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      11.20.09, 02:13 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
      • Oh, so sad. That is awful.

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        11.20.09, 02:15 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
        • Moral of the story: Don’t allow DH no matter how financially savvy to have complete control of finances. Dw allowed him to do everything and even gave him POA at their house closing. Nothing was in her name.

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          11.20.09, 02:19 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
          • My ex dh left me when I was pg for someone else, but at least I had the comfort of beautiful new baby. Poor woman. So, so, sad.

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            11.20.09, 02:21 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
            • That is so awful. I once knew a guy at work who was cheating w/ an office mate while dw was pregnant. Everytime I got within inches of either of them my skin would crawl and I was in my early 20's. Some people should never get married.

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              11.20.09, 02:25 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
            • Read "Heartburn" by Nora Ephron is you never have--painful but very, very funny, thinly-fictionalized story of the same thing...

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              11.20.09, 07:16 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
    • Friend of my mothers find out her dh has another family, living close by (thought he commuted for work) with 2 dd's same age as hers. Had been going on for 10 years. He left her for other 'wife'. He had no money (she had always worked)

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      11.20.09, 03:44 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
    • My aunts husband ran off with her daughter (his stepdaughter), way before someone famous did the same thing.

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      11.20.09, 04:52 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
  • [-]Who here truly feels that where DC goes to preschool/elementary/high school truly will affect his/her life that dramatically? Honestly I don't believe it matters as much as people think it does. I went to public schools, second-tier college, and ended up in fabulous job.

    33 replies [ Reply | Watch | Options ]
    11.20.09, 12:15 PM [ Flag ]
    • My major concern is that DC spends that time reasonably happy. School is a waste of time for many kids, and a miserable one at that. I am sure that he will do fine in the long run, but I don't want him to waste his time in a crappy school--I want all of these childhood years to be as nice as possible! I don't think there is anything wrong with public schools or second-tier colleges if they are a good match for a child.

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      11.20.09, 12:18 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
    • I hear you, but where I went to high school demented as it sounds gets people's attention in away you should understand from reading this board alone plus it opens you up to a completely different level of networking (when you are older of course) my classmates are doing incredible things and the common tie between us allows us to call up the other for a career change, discussion or opp. Does that make sense?

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      11.20.09, 12:19 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
      • op: yes, but most of my colleagues went to ivies, and there i am in the same place as they are. agree that networking makes a difference, but it's not the only difference.

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        11.20.09, 12:20 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
        • But it is such a huge network that is dispersed, all going to Harvard for instance while wonderful I am sure is not the close and similar experience that being Spence '83 is for instance. Or Spence any year for that matter. I went to an ivy but I never use the alum directory for networking only my private it actually has a more impressive roster for my year!

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          11.20.09, 12:25 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
      • I don't know, I went to fancy-schmancy schools, and I don't think I have ever really used that network in my career. In fact, I'm always a little embarrassed to mention where I went to school. I still talk to my best friends from high school, but I don't think any of us feel we benefited much as far as networks. I do appreciate the great education, and I think it is natural that if you get a bunch of pampered, educated rich kids together they will go on to do some pretty incredible things relative to kids with less resources.

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        11.20.09, 12:29 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
        • I think 'fancy-schmancy' is what gave away the fact that you didn't actually go to one but ok

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          11.20.09, 12:32 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
          • op: huh? do they train those little spence darlings not to say "shmancy"?

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            11.20.09, 12:34 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
          • LOL, nice try. I do think it gives away the fact that I don't take where I went for K-12 very seriously, and I definitely don't think it determined my life's path. I can't even think of a situation in which I have gone through an alum directory to "network"! I now teach at a fancy-schmancy University, and the students I most enjoy working with--and many of the brightest-- are usually from publics. Different strokes...

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            11.20.09, 12:35 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
          • NP. i hear/use "f-schm" all the time and i went to andover/stanford (2 degrees).

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            11.20.09, 12:49 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
          • Ha! I love these assumptions. I went to a fancy-schmancy school too (not in NYC) and have never used it for any networking or anything else.

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            11.20.09, 07:04 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
    • To me, the education itself matters more than the job it leads to. It is possible to get a great education at second rate schools, but its easier to do so at first rate schools. My guess is that the first years of that education matter about as much as the other years. So, yes I do care.

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      11.20.09, 12:31 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
      • is this bc you are SAHM?

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        11.20.09, 12:40 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
        • Wow; astute (if a bit cynical), but not quite on the mark. I'm DH who can't get or keep a job, but who manages to contribute in a variety of different ways... for which a well-rounded education is very useful (e.g. reading laws, navigating bureacracies, solving technical problems, coming across as a high-level person), as well as life-enhancing.

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          11.20.09, 02:52 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
    • I suspect that more moms without Ivy-level college are more private school obsessed than moms who have BTDT. That is always the sense I get, at least on this board. They ramble on and on about the import of education, yet their posts are full of spelling/logic/grammatical errors. I think moms who have it don't worry so much about it either way. They know there are many ways to get to HYP, or not, and have a great, rewarding life either way.

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      11.20.09, 12:46 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
      • ^^^OTOH, i also think there is another cohort of moms obsessed with private not neccesarily for educational reasons, but as if they are trying to get into (or were accepted by) an exclusive country club.

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        11.20.09, 12:52 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
      • i ignore spell/gram issues -- i never proofread and i assume no one else does either. the ignorance and lack of curiosity is a bigger problem. suggests posters are rich folks living in a bubble.

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        11.20.09, 12:54 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
        • Lazy writers are lazy thinkers.

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          11.20.09, 02:14 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
          • np: i think that everybody makes typos sometimes, but i agree that some posters consistently make elementary mistakes (your vs you're is a pet peeve) and it makes me wonder.

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            11.20.09, 02:16 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
      • You are totally on the mark. I went Ivy and have a grad degree too. I know you can transfer into Ivy easily - although many here probably don't know this or believe this. Dd zoned for a good public so private is not a necessity. There are actually some very good schools that don't cost $35K a year and your child will still get a great education.

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        11.20.09, 07:09 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
    • It doesn't matter one bit for the majority of people. Then there are those rare few who rise above against insurmountable odds from the ghetto school and wind up at Harvard and those mediocre students born with a silver spoon in their mouth who know how to rub elbows and work connections.

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      11.20.09, 12:56 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
    • I absolutely believe it's important at the university level--but as for elementary, junior high and high school--not important. The rest of the country could give two craps whether your kid went to a tt NYC school or not. Seriously, it's ONLY the NYC crowd who gets spun up over this and we want to believe it's globally important so we don't feel like schmucks for putting ourselves through this self-induced hysteria.

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      11.20.09, 01:28 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
      • ITA but it's funny - my city friends who went to Stuy and Ivies have never even heard of most of the tt schools UBers talk about!

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        11.20.09, 01:32 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
        • ^^^plus I grew up in nearby NY burb and always knew about Stuy/BxSci/BklynTech but had never heard of a single NYC private school. So it is a pretty insular world.

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          11.20.09, 01:38 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
    • prestigious schools have nothing to do with accomplishing things in life. Life in general or in a Career. People talk about it so much on here and it seems like insecurity. Its probably the greatest thing they ever did that they can still hold on to. If a person has talent, focus and drive they can accomplish anything. I went to a million different no name schools in different states, never finished college and still have worked for 6 major NY companies making 6 figures by my mid twenties. Peoples obsession with who is who and who went where on this board is laughable.

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      11.20.09, 01:54 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
      • Ok, but then you have no education, who cares how much money you make if going to Europe is going to be lost to you

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        11.20.09, 02:08 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
        • NP: I know plenty of kids who went to TT schools but are not educated. Going to an elitist school and taking trips to Europe does not an education make. Ask Paris Hilton.

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          11.20.09, 02:11 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
        • Who said I have not gone to Europe? What a weird comment

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          11.20.09, 02:13 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
        • np: you think only people that have gone to prestigious schools can appreciate europe? really? what about asia? or africa?

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          11.20.09, 02:15 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
    • I think it is important. I don't care about prestige, but I do care about the quality of education--probably because mine was mediocre until college (where it was above average) and grad school (were it was excellent). Did my not-so-great high school stand in my way careerwise--not at all. Do I feel inferior or lack confidence--absolutely not. But I am aware of a missed opportunity to be challenged in a meaningful way, to be exposed to subjects on a deeper level that might have made a difference in career choices I made.

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      11.20.09, 04:11 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
  • [-]help me out -- I had a discussion with someone (who doesn't have dcs) who said she can foresee a time when women would choose voluntary surrogacy (paying someone else to have their db) instead of carrying a db themselves. That it's another change to how technology becomes a part of our lives and how we try to control/preserve our bodies in different ways. I just don't think efficiency would ever outweigh wanting to be pregnant, if you can do it (for most people -- of course, there are exceptions). What do you think?

    26 replies [ Reply | Watch | Options ]
    11.20.09, 03:39 PM [ Flag ]
    • I can foresee it, far not the road and for a handful of women, but once it starts the practice could grow. And I say this, even though the thought appalls me.

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      11.20.09, 03:42 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
      • see, logically, I understood why she would see it that way. but after having been pregnant, i can't imagine anyone suggesting that efficiency/preserving your body could possibly be considered a parallel choice.

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        11.20.09, 03:46 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
    • as someone who had a difficult time getting PG, it was very important for me to feel the pregnancy myself and to go through that experience at least once in my life. Maybe it will become more common for some but it may still remain a natural desire for many.

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      11.20.09, 03:43 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
    • I do not think it would ever become routine. Yes, a very small group of women would choose this out of need or desire. But most women take pleasure in pregnancy on some level and it is a biological urge similar to sex.

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      11.20.09, 03:46 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
      • that's what I feel, too -- there is a sense of pleasure, and almost a primal desire. But she suggested, couldn't the idea of what's pleasurable change? How do we know it's pleasurable before having gone through it?

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        11.20.09, 03:49 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
        • I truly think it's similar to sex rather than plastic surgery - an innate desire, rather than a superficial/convenient act.

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          11.20.09, 03:55 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
          • That's what I was telling her -- that it's hard to understand until you are on the threshold of being able to be pregnant. Why do we want it? Because of what others are telling you? Because of how we've been raised? Because it's primal/innate? I don't know, but it's powerful, and ITA with you -- I can't imagine efficiency/beauty/convenience is what would dominate.

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            11.20.09, 03:57 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
      • eros

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        11.20.09, 06:12 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
    • Well I really hated being pregnant the first time. I am pregnant again now, and it is much easier. I can't see ever paying somebody else to carry my child, but that first pregnancy did give me some insight into why women might choose that option!

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      11.20.09, 03:57 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
    • I've been pregnant twice and hated both pregnancies. There was no part of it that I enjoyed. I would definitely be one of those women who would pay someone to be my surrogate. Pregnancy is an amazing experience for some and torture to others. I don't think this would be mainstream, but could be a good alternative for some people.

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      11.20.09, 04:04 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
      • But would you have done it BEFORE getting pregnant? In other words, you know now that you had a horrible experience (after having gone through it). How would you make the decision before knowing you personally had it bad?

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        11.20.09, 04:09 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
        • Honestly, I would have gone the surro route even before I got pregnant. Always wanted kids but hated having no control over my body for 12 months (pregnancy + recovery). I would have to know that the surro method would ensure a healthy environment for my baby.

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          11.20.09, 04:11 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
          • interesting! And you would feel like you could trust a surrogate to be a healthier environment than your own body?

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            11.20.09, 04:16 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
            • I always dreamed that there would be a machine that would simulate a womb and I would pay to rent it and come visit to "see" the baby. I know it sounds silly.

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              11.20.09, 04:17 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
          • np- but you are the anomaly, most women love pregnancy first time. Only the ones with body problems would not want to get pregnant. Second time is a different matter

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            11.20.09, 04:19 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
            • I wonder if there is a constituency of professional women who would want to do it this way too--less downtime.

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              11.20.09, 04:21 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
            • np: I also don't like being pregnant and I've had no complications with both of my pregnancies. I just don't like it and don't even get me started on giving birth. Having said that I can't imagine using a surrogate.

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              11.20.09, 06:25 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
          • i'm with you OR. two awful pregnancies. i suppose I would have tried it the first time, but definitely not the second (even though that one was slightly more bearable). if i could do this i may consider a third, but never want to be pregnant again. if the surrogate could be my husband than i'm first to sign up!

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            11.20.09, 06:09 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
    • I agree and feel the same way about woman who chose c-sections instead of regular birth when their is no medical need for one. Some woman said that they wanted it because they wanted their baby born on a certain day or b/c they didn't want to stretch out 'down there.' There is too much stock in vanity today despite the fact that woman have been having babies naturally since the world began. I don't like woman who seem proud of c-sections b/c of artificial reasons or concerns about themselves. Of course if there is a REAL medical reason than okay but 75% of the people I know that have ever had one had either vanity or a scheduling conflict that resulted in them wanting a c-section.

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      11.20.09, 04:39 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
      • I disagree that elective c-sections are along the slippery slope to on-demand surrogacy. C-sections, even when elected for what you consider trivial reasons, do not involve using another woman, who often has much less money and many fewer options, to gestate your baby. I hated hated hated being pregnant, but would never choose the emotional complications surrogacy evolves. A scheduled c-section, on the other hand, was absolutely what was best for my baby and me. And stretching out 'down there' had nothing to do with my decision.

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        11.20.09, 06:09 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
        • np: I'm glad to read that other women don't like being pregnant. I always hear such glowing stories of pregnancy. I not a fan, but I kind of felt alone in that opinion.

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          11.20.09, 06:28 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
          • how old are you? All my friends and I were 35+ when pregnant; children dearly wanted. Very few -- even the yoga divas-- pretended that pregnancy wasn't ten months of nausea, swelling, and flatulence. I thought uncomfortable pregnancies might be a symptom of 'advanced maternal age', but my mother told me all her pregnancies, starting at age 24, were similar. So maybe my circle of friends are more honest/complaining than many . . . .

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            11.20.09, 06:54 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
            • I'm 35 and pregnant. Was 30 with 1st pregnancy. I know women my same age and they seem to like it. Honestly I didn't have difficult pregnancies, but still don't seem to like or love it like some people I know. I like knowing I'm going to have a baby and I'm very thankful for my kids. But that glowing wonderful I love every moment of this look that some people have I just can't relate to.

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              11.20.09, 07:06 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
      • I had two C-sections for medical reasons. The first was after waiting 20 days past due date, being induced, 48 hours of labor then haveing a c-section and giving birth to a 10 lb baby. I'm 5;3" and 110 lbs. Damage was irreversible of carrying such a large child so late. My story is not that uncommon, and I wish could have opted for an elective C-section the week before due date because I knew it would go like that. I'm guessing you had relatively easy births so

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        11.20.09, 06:17 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
        • Wow -- I'm surprised your OB didn't suggest a c-section, given your size and the baby's size. . .

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          11.20.09, 07:00 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
  • [-]school just instituted a no-gift policy to teachers. now we'll have to slip gifts on the sly or mail them home. i guess the mediocre teachers protested that they went home empty-handed.

    33 replies [ Reply | Watch | Options ]
    11.20.09, 12:19 PM [ Flag ]
    • why don't you just follow the policy?

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      11.20.09, 12:26 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
    • i can't believe how shitty your comment is.

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      11.20.09, 12:26 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
      • doesn't make it less true. why else would there be such a policy. seem unenforceable anyway. they can't tell families what to do with their resources.

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        11.20.09, 12:39 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
        • do you really want an answer? because there is one, and it's logical: 1. most teachers don't like or want expensive gifts. they actually would prefer a nice drawing from your child. they also think parents who go overboard with expensive gifts are trying to buy them. 2. most schools don't like the appearance of impropriety or favoritism. 3. some parents, believe it or not, don't celebrate christmas and hanukkah. 4. some parents, also believe it or not, might not have the money to match your swanky gift.

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          11.20.09, 12:42 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
          • sorry, no teacher wants a child's drawing. they want cash.

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            11.20.09, 12:45 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
            • sorry, my mom was a teacher, many of my friends are teachers, and i know ds's teachers right away. they're not waiters, looking for a tip.

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              11.20.09, 12:47 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
              • true. but given a choice between drawing and cash, they won't hesitate.

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                11.20.09, 12:51 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
                • maybe you wouldn't, but i would absolutely refuse cash if i were a teacher. in fact i refuse expensive gifts all the time in my job. not everyone is craven like you, op.

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                  11.20.09, 01:01 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
                  • you're not typing to op

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                    11.20.09, 01:08 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
                    • ok. then my response is to anyone who agrees with op that the best way to deal with a school policy is to flout it, and that teachers are like trained seals waiting for the generous rich mommies to toss them a yummy sardine.

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                      11.20.09, 01:09 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
          • 1. when did you conduct your survey of all teachers? 2. surveyed all schools? 3. holiday gift/end of year gift 4. who says gift has to match and how would those poor parents know what i gave?

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            11.20.09, 12:49 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
            • you could just play by the rules, you know. you are just the kind of entitled parent people abhor. apparently the community standard applies to everyone else but you.

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              11.20.09, 01:03 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
        • The school can't tell families what to do with their resources but they can tell their employees not to accept gifts from the families. What will happen if they do is the question. If its public its almost impossible to get rid of the teachers. Privates could more easily fire them for taking gifts.

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          11.20.09, 12:46 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
          • i honestly don't think they will enforce such a ridiculous rule. next they will tell us that we cannot talk to the faculty

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            11.20.09, 01:19 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
            • you don't see the difference between a discussion & giving a material gift?

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              11.20.09, 01:38 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
              • neither are bad things. since when is a material gift a bad thing? unless the school believes the gift would have influence on grades given, in which case this policy wouldn't help. their problem is immoral teachers.

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                11.20.09, 01:45 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
        • right, every family should be allowed to bribe their children's teachers

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          11.20.09, 01:05 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
    • does this preclude gift card from the whole class?

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      11.20.09, 12:48 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
    • Gosh, I read this and thought it was a fake, but I guess that's just wishful thinking.

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      11.20.09, 01:40 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
    • This makes sense to me. There are so many potential problems with giving individual teacher gifts. I believe it's unethical for teachers to accept cash gifts. It's prohibited ethically in many professions for good reason. Even postal carriers aren't supposed to accept gifts over $20 value.

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      11.20.09, 02:55 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
    • The real problem is that some people will give gifts anyway, and others will wonder if they should or shouldn't.

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      11.20.09, 03:53 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
    • Our school has this rule; however, the PA collects money from all families and divides it up among all people at the school.

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      11.20.09, 04:07 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
      • I think this is worse. Some of the teachers really do suck and if the parents of her students don't give she'll still get $/gifts from being subsidized by others.

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        11.20.09, 04:13 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
        • This is really a strange post. I give gifts to my child's teachers to show how much I appreciate their hard work. I give gifts to every teacher. This is something I feel strongly about and choose to do. Not everyone feels the same way, and that is fine. I try not to go overboard, but to find something thoughtful - a book, a plant, tickets to an event, sometimes something else that I really think they would enjoy. Gifts are not forbidden at our school, and many people, but not all, do give them. I don't think anyone is trying to "bribe" their kids teacher. That is ridiculous. I really want to show my appreciation for the great job they are doing.

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          11.20.09, 05:40 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
          • its a strange post, or a strange policy?

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            11.20.09, 05:47 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
            • strange attitudes towards teachers. Do you really think you could bribe a good teacher with a holiday gift? That suggests you have a pretty low opinion of teachers.

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              11.20.09, 06:23 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
              • if it isn't favoritism the school is trying to stop, what do you think is the reason for the new policy?

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                11.20.09, 06:26 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
    • what a great policy

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      11.20.09, 06:35 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
    • So do you only give gifts to teachers you like? I've honestly never heard of that before. I give [small] gifts to all the teachers b/c they're all working really hard. It's not a reward; it's a token of appreciation. There is a policy at our school for a max of $20 per family to be distributed evenly throughout the faculty and staff. It makes total sense to me. Expensive gifts are OTT and inappropriate, and whether or not a parent is genuinely attempting to bribe or buy a teacher, a teacher can feel obligated to show preference to a student if they have accepted a large gift--I've seen it happen on both sides: the teacher, as well as a parent who thinks she deserves something from the teacher b/c of the gift she gave.

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      11.20.09, 07:02 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
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