[-]Does anyone know any magazines where 9yo dd could submit some poetry? No, I don't think she's a writing genius, but this is the first academic area she has shown interest in and I want to encourage her.
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[-]what did your ERB tester say after the test? WHat did your tester look like?
11 replies [ Reply | Watch | Options ]Pretty and young, probably in late 20s or early 30s. Said, "She was very cooperative."
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Took erb at the test. Tester smiled and waved good bye and turned right back. one hour. 99.
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No, not nec'ly. One of the subtest counts speed. Report said dd was very chatty and talked about her favorite books and tv shows, and explained in detail her answers. But you don't have to be chatty like that to score high. If you give an answer, short and sweet, you still get the same pts.
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[-]SO if G&T was created just to bring local kids back to public it sounds to me like a marketing ploy without any substance behind it.
22 replies [ Reply | Watch | Options ]It was at the time. It was created to make UMC white parents feel comfortable sending their dcs to schools that were not performing well and were predominantly filled with kids out of district and catchment. And as more and more kids have gone to the G&Ts and the population of the UWS has changed those schools have changed. 9 and 166 could easily phase out G&T at this point and be fine.
[ Reply | Options ]I don't think that is fair even though I'm not UMC white. I think it's great for smart kids in poor nabes with zoned schools that cannot accommodate these kids. Giving them an opportunity to district G&T is great and often the only option these kids have. The only sad thing is G&T cutoff should be higher and curriculum should be accelerated. With 90% cutoff is ridiculous.
[ Reply | Options ]seems so silly to me, like an entire program created to feed off of the competitive nature of adults with regard to their children but based in nothing real.
[ Reply | Options ]after thinking long and hard about it ita (and we tested and qualified for g&t, so no sour grapes). a school is only as good is its peer group, so the kool-aid drinkers say. nothing else matters. the teachers can suck, the parents can be minimally involved, the fundraising can be below where it chould be, the commute can be 1.5 hours each way but as long as the "peer group" is great, the school is great. the funny thing is that with a 90% cutoff at districtwides the peer group may be virtually the same as that at a top gen ed anyway.
[ Reply | Options ]sounds like you have a good local school and you are only thinking about your particular situation. there are many families who either get a G&T spot or have to move to a decent school district. In our school G&T families are mostly doing all the fund raising an the after school program management. If not for the G&T this school would be another terrible school. Now since the G&T has been there a while it is becoming a decent option for the non G&T classes as well. I believe that the DOE is trying to open G&T programs in new schools to try to get the parents more involved and get these schools to improve.
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my dc is in K in a local g&t on UWS. most parents are very down to earth and the children are more "interested in learning/focused" then most of the children we had in our expensive and popular nursery school.
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[-]FYI: All of this tier nonsense you discuss here only gets handed down to your DCs. By the time we were 10 we knew the rankings of each school and which was considered filled with brainiancs and which were filled with just rich kids with the means not to be dumped in public. If you think that will not hurt or in some alter your DCs perception of themselves you are wrong. The cycle and the tiers have existed forever how about you start to break the cycle by growing up?
9 replies [ Reply | Watch | Options ]If the tiers have "existed forever", how would posters' "growing up" change anything?
[ Reply | Options ]I so, so agree. Besides, it is all BS. The best school is the best school for your particular child. People are kidding themselves. It is such a shame that parents in NYC can't get a grip on their social/status anxiety. I actually know parents who make snide comments about the schools their so-called friends kids are applying to. How f--ked up is that?
[ Reply | Options ]I know, we have watched it go on for years and our parents still tell stories about so-and-so saying a,b, or c about this or that school. I understand it is human nature to be competitive but really it is so damaging to the dcs themselves no matter if they are at collegiate or hewitt
[ Reply | Options ]some of the nastiest behavior comes from parents with children at the less competitive schools. When my ds was accepted to Trinity for HS, you should have seen some of the behavior from acquaintances with children at some of the lower tier schools in manhattan. One mom actually went out of her way to be mean to my younger ds. unbelievable.
[ Reply | Options ]Yes I hate to agree with you but I have to that it is very much the standard norm here. I am sure there are a lot of nasty obnoxious moms who want to broadcast that their dc is at a tt, but there are more angry and bitter mothers who did not get a slot for their child who make it their mission to attack the children who did. Sick.
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[-]A modest proposal: Since the MS44 building seems to have a bit of room, Anderson should take non-"gifted" students in one or two additional classrooms on a lottery basis or as 87 overflow. It would become a school with a heralded gifted program, but not an exclusively "gifted" school. That would relieve some of D3 overcrowding, but still allow the programs geared to its students to continue, while also creating opportunities for other students in the region. Doesn't it make sense to use the space for D3 kids? What harm could there be to the school or to present students to have a few classes each grade that are not in the gifted program? (signed, an unaffected parent with child in another school - not 87 or Anderson)
38 replies [ Reply | Watch | Options ]Why would you want tiers in a school which currently doesn't have any? Does that even make sense?
[ Reply | Options ]Not a public mom I think the whole premise of the g&t is for the parents to feel their dcs are special or smarter and to gear their entire learning experience to that premise. To put them in normal classes or put normal kids in their classes would create a lot of hullaballoo from those competitive parents.
[ Reply | Options ]Do you think the same way about parents who have their children in private schools, esp the ones in "TT" schools?
[ Reply | Options ]Think what, that they are all overly competitive? Yes. All parents are about whatever they can find that they feel is better or best for their children.
[ Reply | Options ]Think that they need to feel their dcs are special or smarter and to gear their entire learning experience to that premise.
[ Reply | Options ]Yes,I do. If you took parents from Spence and told them Hewitt would be joining three days a week they would demand a refund from the school
[ Reply | Options ]So then what exactly are you saying? Only parents who send their child to zoned schools all their educational lives (only suburban parents, I guess) are normal?
[ Reply | Options ]It was obvious from the moment I posted, perhaps because I send my dc to private I don't know, that you have been trying to start a fight which I don't understand because I am not making a judgment about public or private I am commenting on the social behavior of parents when it comes to their children.
[ Reply | Options ]Right and my question is - how far does that judgment go? If it extends to every parent in NYC, what's the point?
[ Reply | Options ]Question to me or in general, because I have already stated I am not making a judgment about schools but about social behavior of every parents across the globe. if it isn't school its dance class or piano lessons or baseball teams. Ever parents wants to believe their dc is getting the best or is in a group that is labeled 'best' whether that is a school, a county's best baseball team, lessons with the best dance coach etc.
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LOL. But the Hewitt moms, who would have LOVED for their dds to have been accepted to Spence, would be thrilled and would pay extra.
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How would you know if your dcs don't go to G&Ts? It's like public school parents on UB saying that private school A is full of snobby, entitled kids - how would they know?
[ Reply | Options ]I am making a comment on parents and their capacity to compete when it comes to their children and always wanting their child to be in the group that is positively singled out. Not the school or the program. If you think parents who send their dcs to public want that any less than parents who send dcs to B, S, and C you are kidding yourself.
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They need to put another MS in there. D3 overcrowding is reaching MS very very soon and there aren't enough spaces by a long shot to place all the kids that won't make it to Delta. Or maybe they can expand Computer School.
[ Reply | Options ]There is: West Prep MS started this year. It's going to grow as MS 44 is being phased out. Not sure about it's target enrollment though once all the grades are in place.
[ Reply | Options ]West Prep is very small school, and I don't think they are planning to grow it other than adding higher grades, so there is still net loss of MS seats as IS44 is being phased out. Where are the kids that were to go there going to go for MS?
[ Reply | Options ]MS 44 itself is pretty small at this point in terms of number of children per grade. There have been several newer D3 MS options created in the past few years. The problem is that aside from Center (yes, I know it starts in 5th), Computer, Delta, Mott Hall and the Columbia Secondary School, few feel that the other options offer an acceptable education. Also, relatively few of the options are in the southern end of the District.
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Conservatively, over half of the kids at Anderson are from D3 anyway (so maybe they could just all leave and add to the crowding at their home schools). This meme you people are floating, that Anderson is not a D3 school and should just keep moving like some hobo circus train is going to come back and bite you in the ass. And why does 87 need to bleed across the street? maybe because half the kids in that building are not zoned for it? How about this? no more out-of-catchment kids at PS87 and the Trump buildings go to PS191, like they were supposed to in the first place.
[ Reply | Options ]While I understand your premise on a local level, once you look at it on a citywide or even borough-wide level it doesn't make sense, given that many, many more children qualify for G&T than there are seats available. The bottom line is that there needs to be more elementary school seats across the board than there are at present.
[ Reply | Options ]I think the premise is to add seats where possible as priority, with g & t (which was created initially to bring local families back to public schools) as less of a priority. Look at the hysteria created unnecessarily (NY Times today on test prep). If Anderson were not a citywide school on 77th street, there would be that many more K spots for D3 kids available. The proposal retains the integrity of what Anderson has created for its kids over the decades, but allows the process of allocating school space for local kids.
[ Reply | Options ]I find it amusing but not surprising that no one was looking at OShea last year before Anderson was forced to move. And, again with the "local kids"--if you're talking catchment, half of 87 shouldn't be there either.
[ Reply | Options ]I am so sick of the out of catchement 87 BS. they have so many out of catchment kids because the DOE handed them to 87 without a choice. The current 2nd grade had 65 OOC spots via D3 lottery. The current 1st grade had 36. The current K had none but the principal decided to let in OOC siblings because she believed it was the right thing to do that late in the year. It made one K class. They could've done 8 K classes with 25-26 kids in a class but instead have 9 with 21 kids per class. Some kids get in OOC through the CTT classes or no child left behind and the school has no say in that.
[ Reply | Options ]They happily accepted OOC kids for years, in order to "build" the school. I understand, and sympathize. It's a bit misleading to say the DOE forced them in through the lottery the last couple of years. The lottery was simply to replace the "apply to individual schools and get in because the admin gets to decide which families they are going to give a spot to" method that was in place all over D3 for many many years.
[ Reply | Options ]True. But actually in 2007 the K classes expanded to 7 because the DOE gave PS 87 65 lottery seats rather than the 40 the school thought they could fit. The DOE has grossly underestimated the in catchment surge across lower D3. They also have done no accurate population prediction because they lump the district as a whole. PS 145 is half empty but no one from the W. 80s, 70s or 60s wants to go up there. What they should do is zone the trump buildings for 191 and then see what happens.
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If I may - to redirect conversation to subject-at-hand - True, MS44 space, if it exists, should be considered toward the imminent danger of middleschool chaos once the 2007 K kids reach 6th grade. But also -- the growing hysteria about gifted is just so out-of-whack with reality. And prevents other schools like 191, 84, 9, from really blossoming into the kind of sought-after institution like 199 and 87 (where they don't believe in the idea of "gifted")
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[-]I think i simply care less about education than most people do - I think there is a limit to what the best education money can buy will do for some kids. For some kids it will be life changing and profound - for some it will not matter so much
15 replies [ Reply | Watch | Options ]It isn't about buying a college placement for your child at an ivy. Its about creating and feeding a knowledge base that they will use and enjoy for the rest of their lives. My child already knows so much more than I do about art, history, different cultures, music it is astonishing, I love going to the museum with her, she points out things I never knew and she is in 5th grade! DD is no smarter than a lot of dcs but the education she is receiving is beyond!
[ Reply | Options ]DH and I went to Ivies and we feel the same way. We loved college, we got a lot out of it, etc, but don't feel it's worth pushing our kids through their childhood to get there.
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no, parents push their kids not the admissions process. it the parents who are signing them up for prepping and posting continuously on this board, asking what dc should wear, if they should give $ etc. not the process.
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you are justing mouthing the words, it is what most people who strive to get their dcs into tt say.
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[-]do any of you ever worry about having your dc is a constant culture of achievement as opposed to just being? serious question - this goes for all NYC schools - publics and privates
17 replies [ Reply | Watch | Options ]I think the culture of private or private TT schools on this board is hyped and exaggerated. People who have not attended themselves or who are applying or have DCs somewhere and want to sing its praises make it sound as if these dcs are living in a bubble of pressure and achievement. It really is not the case. It is a far more nurturing environment and the attitude toward achievement is balanced with feeding creativity and strengths in areas other than math etc.
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new york city has always been about drive and success, amassing more and more money. I am from here and my family managed to raise three very low key children who went to private and had thing, some things, but focused on the correct way to live. Its about who is raising you not who your neighbors are.
[ Reply | Options ]I mostly agree with you but I have also lived in some very downscale areas during parts of my life and when everyone has very little you would be surprised at how the subliminal differences and the toll NYC can take on a person.
[ Reply | Options ]OK I don't get your point really. Will your experiences and expectations be different in you lived on the UWS as opposed to a low income housing development in Arkansas? Yes. But really why do you want your child to have the low income arkansas experience? Why not give them opportunities and the knowledge to succeed with a balance of realism about life. I don't understand this strange desire among the elite her to expose their children to poverty to keep them 'grounded'. There is no such thing.
[ Reply | Options ]I have often wondered: are NY area kids more competitive because they grew up here, or because their parents are more competitive and live in NY because of their personalities?
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I think often the pressure comes from the kids themselves. There are few kids who are almost like geniuses who just absorb everything instantly and have always been several grades levels above. Even though all the rest of the kids are very bright in their own right, they compare themselves to those few kids (let say top 10%) and want to be in that top 10% and for these 90% of kids, they have to put in so many hours to perform at the same level as those kids who only need, say, 30 min.
[ Reply | Options ]Yes. I think this is a very valid question. I find myself fighting my own type A upbringing for my dc all the time, though not that successfully.
[ Reply | Options ]I completely agree- though I think some is genetic because I have discovered that some of my kids got my type A gene and some kids did not. I try to keep all of my kids out of hyper-competitive groups though because environmental influences seep in, no matter how much I say "it doesn't matter, this is just for fun."
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[-]Any fall birthday moms that have btdt - if you opt not to attend public k in the fall in which your DC turns 5 (hoping for private K) and wind up shut out of privates for the next year... what happens? can u still send dc to public k the year they are already 5? Are you unable to try for public gifted programs then?
3 replies [ Reply | Watch | Options ]You can't send to public K, you will have to send to first grade. You can also apply to gifted programs, but the application is automatically considered for 1st grade because they are done by age not the grade dc is in currently. So the short of it is dc can certainly go public but will have to skip K and go to first grade. Which happens to a few kids at our school every year.
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[-]Any tt alums sending their kids to Manhattan public schools? Please tell me your impressions of how their education compares to yours so far.
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We lived in CT for three years and sent public. Both of us are tt alums. We toured privates out there but they seemed like a waste, moved back to new york two years ago in part because of education. No one wants to believe this but the difference in education is huge.
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i think people believe that but many of us are just not sure how much it matters to any particular kid and how they will gorw and develop into happy and productive people
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never said "detriment" - point is that taking a kid our of a bad environment and exposing them to a fab education can have a profound and life changing effect - OTOH if the kid is from an upper middle class educated home where they read and go to museums and work hard then the "better" education will be less impactful - but of course not detrimental!
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I disagree entirely, my husband and I walk around the museums in new york city but we don't really know much about what we are looking at so the experience or enrichment is pretty much lost on us. Our children however who are receiving a fabulous education know so much about what we see they can explain eras and make references to the development of artistic styles etc. that we find fascinating. They, because of their education, are getting far more out of life in general than we are.
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Depends on what you scrifce for the better education, right? What is the opportunity cost?
[ Reply | Options ]IMO the cost of a lifetime of understanding on a level even I don't grasp at 45 is much more important than anything else material. All of this talk about 'we enrich our children in other ways we go to France'. That is nice, but do your children have any real understanding of why europe may be important, why what they are looking at or the building they are standing in is significant? Its like taking someone who has never cracked open a science book into a NASA museum. Ok, so you went, but what did you get out of it? Chances are very little.
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I think that everybody wants to do the best for their children, why would you say you don't find education valuable?
[ Reply | Options ]again - it is a matter of degree -(1) i think education is valuable but perhaps not the very very best vs. something very good and (2) you keep missing the point that there is no specific best and "best education" may not be the very best thing for all kids at all times - the options are broader than you are seeing them
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Just don't believe that going to a Manhattan private school is the only way to gain this knowledge
[ Reply | Options ]You know, Dh and I are both very intelligent he went to Ivy (I did not though) and we did well at college and we have good jobs but we just don't have the same foundation an excellent education before 18 provided. To the women below discussing tours, a walk around for a few hours lead by a scholar is not in any way a comparison to years of study in a single area, something that the schools our children are in provide. I understand that people all want to do what is best for the dcs and for a lot of people the best has to be public and of course you supplement where you can, but that does not remove facts about different levels of education from the equation.
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And if it isn't then there is no point to the discussion. I am not advocating all expensive private schools as superior and I am not advocating that people struggle in other areas to provide it. I am offering an opinion to people who do find education important, but if you don't you should spend on whatever you do feel is important.
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Some of us prefer to use experiences to educate our families. Many museums provide tours, as do cities. The resources are out there . Il's scrimped to send Dh to a private school. He would never do it. He saw the family time/vacations sports classes etc his cousins had and would have preferred that.
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http://funny-poems.phased.co.cc funny poems
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I live in CT now, and when I miss living in NYC, I read the NY SCHOOLS board and feel very thankful. I feel that there is a time and place for everything, and I appreciate taking my kids out of the school pressure-cooker and letting them enjoy their childhood. Education is important to us, but it's definitely not worth the high-stress childhood that goes along with private education in NYC.
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Private and public both have advantages and disadvantages. We feel as though having our dcs go to an excellent public school that is diverse - socially, economically and racially - prepares them for life in a way that privates cannot.
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[-]Did you guys discuss the NYT article about Bright Kids and 4yo test prep schools? http://www.nytimes.com/2009/11/21/nyregion/21testprep.html?_r=1&hp=&adxnnl=1&adxnnlx=1258777767-aur+4oprs/X2rPfHGCOSgQ
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[-]wwyd: I haven't given much $ to my Alma Mater before, but now that my dd is applying to Kindergarten. Do I send a big check to the annual fund now? Too obvious?
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[-]Annual fund question: is it common for a school to send out different versions of the letter asking for donations? some got a letter asking for 500 dollars (not financial aid family) others 5000. how do they know how much money people have/want to give? does this seem right to you?
37 replies [ Reply | Watch | Options ]Good fundraising mentions a specific amount. A good fundraiser knows what to ask for.
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They know based on previous donations. It's common to have a targeted process and I don't really see a problem with it. I used to to fund raising for my college and it was the same in that we had people whom we called and asked for amounts based on what the giving history was.
[ Reply | Options ]Yep, fundraisers assess a lot of public info to draw conclusions about what a family might give (i.e. property values, what other orgs they give to, employer, etc.).
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I am sure we get googled if they are serious about a family. They do not want any embarrassing pasts.
[ Reply | Options ]Hijack: how much googling takes place? I mean, if my wonderful dh has major criminal conviction in his past (which you would find from some skillful Internet searching) then are we totally out of luck? Should I disclose to the school? (ps it's bad)
[ Reply | Options ]Maybe in the meantime he could become a major donor somewhere instead, to mitigate the bad stuff.
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np And if you're not getting FA, they'll call to see what you'll give. It's not complicated.
[ Reply | Options ]we got FA, and we still got the call. It was expected that everyone give something, and the amounts were not published, just whether you gave.
[ Reply | Options ]op: that's not what happened. they targeted different people for different amounts, without ever talking to us
[ Reply | Options ]the schools all have development offices and this is what they do for a living. they target people based on past giving history and if there is no history, they base it on whatever information they can find - addresses, jobs, publicly listed donations, etc. if you work at Goldman Sachs, they will target you for a different number than someone who is a lawyer at a non-profit.
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[-]Collegiate boys blow B girls out of the water for ivy. The non-ivy schools B moms picked out are not so popular among C boys. This is why you can't pick which non-ivy to compare school stats. Much easier with straight ivy comparison. Also, if you have to compare apples to apples, you need to divide by same category of common denominator.
10 replies [ Reply | Watch | Options ]Very helpful post - I am sure there are a lot of kids deciding between the two schools?!?
[ Reply | Options ]LOL. I can't figure out why this OP is so hot and bothered about comparisons between Collegiate and Brearley. She's posted this as a response to a few threads but rarely gets responses, so she finally started her own post. I have this vision of a woman pacing angrily around her apartment with steam coming out of her head!
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[-]I did the post asking what you are most proud of, thinking of a big accomplishment that you worked hard to achieve. Now the opposite question: what single thing did you do as an adult/parent that you most regret or are most ashamed of? Some one thing you could go back and get a "redo" on if it were possible?
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Said really hurtful things to my dh early on in our marriage that still affect us today. I wish I would have kept my mouth shut about past relationships. I think he still resents things I've said.
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i'm not a parent, but the two bad things i did were ruin my gpa by working too much. i didn't save any money like i should have, and it was not worth the drop in GPA. with my 2.7, I am having a really hard time applying to any grad school, even conditionally. I have a 1400 GRE score but everyone looks at my GPA. I'm unemployed, and I can't even get a job as a grocery store bagger...sometimes I wish I chose a more 'vocational' field. I don't really care about being 'well rounded' when I don't have money to pursue any interests at all
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