[-]I did the post asking what you are most proud of, thinking of a big accomplishment that you worked hard to achieve. Now the opposite question: what single thing did you do as an adult/parent that you most regret or are most ashamed of? Some one thing you could go back and get a "redo" on if it were possible?
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[-]Who here truly feels that where DC goes to preschool/elementary/high school truly will affect his/her life that dramatically? Honestly I don't believe it matters as much as people think it does. I went to public schools, second-tier college, and ended up in fabulous job.
33 replies [ Reply | Watch | Options ]My major concern is that DC spends that time reasonably happy. School is a waste of time for many kids, and a miserable one at that. I am sure that he will do fine in the long run, but I don't want him to waste his time in a crappy school--I want all of these childhood years to be as nice as possible! I don't think there is anything wrong with public schools or second-tier colleges if they are a good match for a child.
[ Reply | Options ]I hear you, but where I went to high school demented as it sounds gets people's attention in away you should understand from reading this board alone plus it opens you up to a completely different level of networking (when you are older of course) my classmates are doing incredible things and the common tie between us allows us to call up the other for a career change, discussion or opp. Does that make sense?
[ Reply | Options ]op: yes, but most of my colleagues went to ivies, and there i am in the same place as they are. agree that networking makes a difference, but it's not the only difference.
[ Reply | Options ]But it is such a huge network that is dispersed, all going to Harvard for instance while wonderful I am sure is not the close and similar experience that being Spence '83 is for instance. Or Spence any year for that matter. I went to an ivy but I never use the alum directory for networking only my private it actually has a more impressive roster for my year!
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I don't know, I went to fancy-schmancy schools, and I don't think I have ever really used that network in my career. In fact, I'm always a little embarrassed to mention where I went to school. I still talk to my best friends from high school, but I don't think any of us feel we benefited much as far as networks. I do appreciate the great education, and I think it is natural that if you get a bunch of pampered, educated rich kids together they will go on to do some pretty incredible things relative to kids with less resources.
[ Reply | Options ]I think 'fancy-schmancy' is what gave away the fact that you didn't actually go to one but ok
[ Reply | Options ]LOL, nice try. I do think it gives away the fact that I don't take where I went for K-12 very seriously, and I definitely don't think it determined my life's path. I can't even think of a situation in which I have gone through an alum directory to "network"! I now teach at a fancy-schmancy University, and the students I most enjoy working with--and many of the brightest-- are usually from publics. Different strokes...
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To me, the education itself matters more than the job it leads to. It is possible to get a great education at second rate schools, but its easier to do so at first rate schools. My guess is that the first years of that education matter about as much as the other years. So, yes I do care.
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Wow; astute (if a bit cynical), but not quite on the mark. I'm DH who can't get or keep a job, but who manages to contribute in a variety of different ways... for which a well-rounded education is very useful (e.g. reading laws, navigating bureacracies, solving technical problems, coming across as a high-level person), as well as life-enhancing.
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I suspect that more moms without Ivy-level college are more private school obsessed than moms who have BTDT. That is always the sense I get, at least on this board. They ramble on and on about the import of education, yet their posts are full of spelling/logic/grammatical errors. I think moms who have it don't worry so much about it either way. They know there are many ways to get to HYP, or not, and have a great, rewarding life either way.
[ Reply | Options ]i ignore spell/gram issues -- i never proofread and i assume no one else does either. the ignorance and lack of curiosity is a bigger problem. suggests posters are rich folks living in a bubble.
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You are totally on the mark. I went Ivy and have a grad degree too. I know you can transfer into Ivy easily - although many here probably don't know this or believe this. Dd zoned for a good public so private is not a necessity. There are actually some very good schools that don't cost $35K a year and your child will still get a great education.
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It doesn't matter one bit for the majority of people. Then there are those rare few who rise above against insurmountable odds from the ghetto school and wind up at Harvard and those mediocre students born with a silver spoon in their mouth who know how to rub elbows and work connections.
[ Reply | Options ]I absolutely believe it's important at the university level--but as for elementary, junior high and high school--not important. The rest of the country could give two craps whether your kid went to a tt NYC school or not. Seriously, it's ONLY the NYC crowd who gets spun up over this and we want to believe it's globally important so we don't feel like schmucks for putting ourselves through this self-induced hysteria.
[ Reply | Options ]prestigious schools have nothing to do with accomplishing things in life. Life in general or in a Career. People talk about it so much on here and it seems like insecurity. Its probably the greatest thing they ever did that they can still hold on to. If a person has talent, focus and drive they can accomplish anything. I went to a million different no name schools in different states, never finished college and still have worked for 6 major NY companies making 6 figures by my mid twenties. Peoples obsession with who is who and who went where on this board is laughable.
[ Reply | Options ]I think it is important. I don't care about prestige, but I do care about the quality of education--probably because mine was mediocre until college (where it was above average) and grad school (were it was excellent). Did my not-so-great high school stand in my way careerwise--not at all. Do I feel inferior or lack confidence--absolutely not. But I am aware of a missed opportunity to be challenged in a meaningful way, to be exposed to subjects on a deeper level that might have made a difference in career choices I made.
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[-]I'm trying to understand my son's ctp4 scores. The school gave us the national norm but not the independent school norm. Does anyone know what the independent school percentile would be for a score that was in the 87th percentile for the national norm? Thanks.
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[-]Anyone know how things are going with the new director at Barrow Street Nursery School?
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[-]school just instituted a no-gift policy to teachers. now we'll have to slip gifts on the sly or mail them home. i guess the mediocre teachers protested that they went home empty-handed.
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doesn't make it less true. why else would there be such a policy. seem unenforceable anyway. they can't tell families what to do with their resources.
[ Reply | Options ]do you really want an answer? because there is one, and it's logical: 1. most teachers don't like or want expensive gifts. they actually would prefer a nice drawing from your child. they also think parents who go overboard with expensive gifts are trying to buy them. 2. most schools don't like the appearance of impropriety or favoritism. 3. some parents, believe it or not, don't celebrate christmas and hanukkah. 4. some parents, also believe it or not, might not have the money to match your swanky gift.
[ Reply | Options ]The school can't tell families what to do with their resources but they can tell their employees not to accept gifts from the families. What will happen if they do is the question. If its public its almost impossible to get rid of the teachers. Privates could more easily fire them for taking gifts.
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This makes sense to me. There are so many potential problems with giving individual teacher gifts. I believe it's unethical for teachers to accept cash gifts. It's prohibited ethically in many professions for good reason. Even postal carriers aren't supposed to accept gifts over $20 value.
[ Reply | Options ]Our school has this rule; however, the PA collects money from all families and divides it up among all people at the school.
[ Reply | Options ]I think this is worse. Some of the teachers really do suck and if the parents of her students don't give she'll still get $/gifts from being subsidized by others.
[ Reply | Options ]This is really a strange post. I give gifts to my child's teachers to show how much I appreciate their hard work. I give gifts to every teacher. This is something I feel strongly about and choose to do. Not everyone feels the same way, and that is fine. I try not to go overboard, but to find something thoughtful - a book, a plant, tickets to an event, sometimes something else that I really think they would enjoy. Gifts are not forbidden at our school, and many people, but not all, do give them. I don't think anyone is trying to "bribe" their kids teacher. That is ridiculous. I really want to show my appreciation for the great job they are doing.
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So do you only give gifts to teachers you like? I've honestly never heard of that before. I give [small] gifts to all the teachers b/c they're all working really hard. It's not a reward; it's a token of appreciation. There is a policy at our school for a max of $20 per family to be distributed evenly throughout the faculty and staff. It makes total sense to me. Expensive gifts are OTT and inappropriate, and whether or not a parent is genuinely attempting to bribe or buy a teacher, a teacher can feel obligated to show preference to a student if they have accepted a large gift--I've seen it happen on both sides: the teacher, as well as a parent who thinks she deserves something from the teacher b/c of the gift she gave.
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[-]Did anyone attend last night's D2 CEC mtg? If so, was UES rezoning discussed? I read about the downtown rezoning proposal, but can't find anything on uptown.
4 replies [ Reply | Watch | Options ]I thought only 234, 89, spruce and seaport school were discussed. did they talk about other parts of D2?
[ Reply | Options ]they did. DOE proposed a much larger zone for ps 158 so that it would be a huge elementary. many UES parents were there and were united AGAINST that idea. they don't want such a big elementary school in the neighborhood.
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[-]What are the boarding schools close to NYC that are good? Which are good but not all that well known?
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[-]Yes, I'm obsessing but humor me: if an SB tester tells you your DB worked "very hard" it isn't good - right?
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[-]ps 87 or ps 166? Which is better? Do either have extra teachers in the classroom?
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dd tested over 2 mos before 4 bday(while stilled rared by %iles for HCES). Hit ceiling on sbV. Tester requested a consult w/us/no fee.
[ Reply | Options ]I'm pretty positive they adjust for age, so if the kid is only 3.9 it is scored differently than if he were 4.2.
[ Reply | Options ]The test is scored in age-bands (3.9-4.0 at time of test are scored differently than 4.1-4.3). My dc took it before 4th birthday and made the cut-off last year.
[ Reply | Options ]I'm curious, what do you think they were looking for in round 2? just the normal, social behavior you would see at any school playdate or is there something else?
[ Reply | Options ]From what I've heard, it seems that they are doing another assessment test, in groups. The observers are some of the psychologists who were the 1st round testers. So I think they are interested in the kids' performance on individual and group tasks, and also how they work together. And not just how well they work together: They want to know and balance leadership roles, collaborative styles, etc. I gather that it's more than just playing nicely together. But I don't have a direct in at the admissions office; that's just what I've heard, and it may not be accurate.
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[-]Can someone tell me what 99% means for ERBs scoring statistically? What are the percentage of children taking the test that actually get this score and what does it mean for the admissions office at TT schools? TIA
10 replies [ Reply | Watch | Options ]I don't have the data for each year. UB is skewed not b/c I think people lie but b/c people from from the past ten yrs, for one reason.
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But why would someone lie? What on earth does it get them? Some people in cyberspace who don't even know who you are read that your child got a 99? How crazy is that? People lie to get out of an uncomfortable situation or because it makes them feel better... If it's anonymous it doesn't make any sense. By the way, amongst my dc's preschool classmates from last year, I know of a 98, a 99, and two 97s. That's three kids out of a class of fifteen. My other dc's year I knew of a 94, 91, 98, 99. I think parents whose kids get in the 80s just don't talk about it.
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[-]who has the decision making power for Kindergarten at Trinity? the woman who runs the playdates? who is she anyway? DOA jennifer levine seems powerles.
11 replies [ Reply | Watch | Options ]it all seemed very odd. only school we went to where the DOA didn't observe the dcs.
[ Reply | Options ]who did observe your dc? we haven't yet gone on our apts there but everyone i talk to says they never met doa. weird.
[ Reply | Options ]our playdate/interview was with another couple. an older woman takes the two dcs into a small room for about a half hour. during that time the doa or assistant doa talks to the two sets of parents. in our case it was a bit of a monologue by the doa who was very nice and talked all about the school, but did not ask one question about our dc or family.
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I get the feeling it is b/c the school only cares about the connections anyway at that stage
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[-]Based on the Ivy exmissions post, Brearley is a better school than Chapin?
41 replies [ Reply | Watch | Options ]Br. alum and ivy admission percentages in any year whether a school drops a few points or goes up a few points means nothing when it comes to all the schools in that league. People here who think these schools are only worthwhile because of the number of DCs that go to Harvard one year as opposed to another are sending their DCs there for the wrong reasons. Do remember that we are talking about a class of 45 children, so if one more one year goes to Yale than another school who cares, it doesn't make Br, a 'better' school than Chapin anymore than Chapin would be a 'better' school three years ago for having put more DCs in Yale one year than Br. Also remember there are a number of dcs at those schools who get into ivy and don't always cho...
[ Reply | Options ]I think the number of college legacies throw all of these comparsions out the window.
[ Reply | Options ]You are wrong. College legacies are really nothing these days. I understand people want to believe that though, but the truth is difference in education. Not saying intelligence necessarily but education and preparedness overall to perform.
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I am sure you believe that, but I am on the other side of the fence so my perspective is different and not as skewed toward wanting or needing to believe otherwise. Millions of dollars may make a difference but it would have to be a considerable sum. Not that people that wealthy or willing even here, and coming from those schools you don't really need it
[ Reply | Options ]I'm not saying that legacy status guarantees an in, or that you can't get in without it. I'm saying it gives you a leg up. Do you really think that H would have such a healthy endowment if this were not true? That every donor is a selfless philanthropist who believes in the school even if their kids can't get in?
[ Reply | Options ]you must agree that between two equally qualified candidates the legacy will get preference...
[ Reply | Options ]No I really don't, I have seen it happen a lot, you cannot always account for a colleges decision year to year. The board may want diversity geographical or racial, they may want more activities, fewer, more arts, more science. Really not every candidate qualified as they are has the exact same strengths.
[ Reply | Options ]I did college admissions for many years at one of the most competitive in the country. I agree in principal with what you're saying, but I also must tell you that any kind of name recognition IS a good thing for a candidate. It adds weight on the scales.
[ Reply | Options ]I question the veracity of your statement that you did admissions at college, but if you did it sounds as if it was not an Ivy where perhaps endowment means much more.
[ Reply | Options ]not an Ivy but as competitive as an Ivy if not more. I meant name recognition as in family name.
[ Reply | Options ]We were and they still are, some but not the majority. Even the overtaxed ones performed and had the base skills to perform at a higher level with little effort. You must know that to be true. Maybe not an A student but B without much study Now whether that is worth it to waste a spot on the student is the call of the college and can be determined as the student continues but overall that they will perform is not a question.
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^^^ based on what do you question my veracity? I am trying to inform you, from my extensive experience, that official policy does not match what actually goes on in the process.
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Is the point of this post to rile the troops? Brearley, Spence, and Chapin are all excellent schools and they jockey for top honors into HYP every year but the two or three more each year makes no difference and means nothing. If dc is in one of those schools you should count yourself as lucky.
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[-]Was in a store near ps 186 (I think) and those DCs were more obnoxious and entitled than any of the girls I knew at SS tt.
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Right, a couple of obnoxious girls pretty much represent the entire public school student body. How do you know they were from public school, anyway?
[ Reply | Options ]No uniforms, upper east side about 5th grade flowing into cell phone store in Tory Burch shoes flipping their hair and speaking through their noses. And there were about three different groups of them. And you think that people on here who bash ss TT girls know EVERY girl in the entire class?
[ Reply | Options ]When you make a decision about a private school being filled with entitled celebs and money what are you going on for evidence?
[ Reply | Options ]um, the many celebs who have kids there? i think it's far less accurate to judge a public school based on a few students. privates are much smaller and much more homogeneous, socioeconomically and racially.
[ Reply | Options ]um, the few that do in each grade do not make up the whole school not even the whole grade and who is to say celeb kids are all awful?
[ Reply | Options ]i don't think celeb kids are awful. i would worry about my dc getting involved with kids who have a lot of money and not a lot of supervision. celeb/super wealthy kids seem more likely to fall into that category.
[ Reply | Options ]I don't think you understand there are plenty of wealthy dcs at public school in wealthy areas. You aren't required to have money to get to a great private in NYC you need to have intelligence, I know a lot of dumb wealthy people.
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Ummm, you'll have to give an example if you want people to agree with you. Also, you're probably talking about 10 year olds at the most who are not allowed out to lunch (school policy) so what the HECK are you talking about??? A little insecure at your SS tt???
[ Reply | Options ]I think OP was being a bit of a jerk but - she said nothing about lunch hour. I think she saw these kids after school. A weird thing is that it also sounds like the OP is comparing these current kids to the girls SHE went to school with - not the current 5th graders at SS schools (who I'm sure are the same as these 158ers). At any rate, these kids are growing up on the UES, for feck's sake. They ARE entitled children, whether they go to public or private school. A difference would be that 158 has 20% of their kids eligible for a free lunch, which is vastly different from being "poor" enough to get FA at a private school. But the richie riches at both kinds of school? The same.
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[-]Ivies+Duke+Chicago+MIT+Stanford+Amherst+Williams+Caltech (20005-09): Brearley 53%, Horace MAnn 48%, Trinity 47%, Spence 45%, Chapin 41%, Dalton 39%
97 replies [ Reply | Watch | Options ]did you pick out the schools that B sent the most dcs to? please stop already. caltech? isn't that a (gasp) PUBLIC school?
[ Reply | Options ]np: FWIW I am the poster you slammed below for being some Crazy B mom, I did not post this.
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Caltech is probably one of the toughest ones to get in and it is sort of like MIT
[ Reply | Options ]of course. but it is not small, ss, private, elitist, or any of the many reasons B moms give for B's alleged superiority.
[ Reply | Options ]You people really have a bug up your a$$ about this school what it the problem here?
[ Reply | Options ]I would have added Cooper Union. Nobody from Brearly went there. It's extremely competitive bec it's free and their engineering is top notch. Probably smarter kids apply there than MIT or Caltech.
[ Reply | Options ]You don't know anything about Caltech, do you? It's private and smaller than almost all of the Ivies.
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Cal Tech is not only private, but back in the early 90s when I was applying to college, the average math SAT score there was a perfect 800. I joked that there was no way they were ever going to accept people w anything less, no matter how good their app, bc they were not going to give up that perfect number!
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The problem is that if you go to one of these private schools, or even some top notch public schools in 'burbs, you are often "brokered" much like preschools do. You may love Harvard, but if the school decides some other kids are going to be the kids they recommend for Harvard, your chances of getting in are much lower. It's fine if you are the chosen one for the school you love, but if not, you are better off being one of the top students at a no-name public school and applying to that school.
[ Reply | Options ]This is just not the case. You are never better off at a no name public school in the burbs. We are talking about a 50% 'rate of return' on excellent schools for only 50 dcs. That is 25 every year in the top schools. The other 25 also go to top schools with an exception of one or two, schools that would make any no name public drool. And that is not even beginning to discuss the comparison in the education itself
[ Reply | Options ]I would choose MIT, Stanford but the other schools are random. I could have chosen different schools to judge. Clearly, B mom put together a list that puts them first. And how she did not include Collegiate is telling. Trinity did not even publish 05-09 stat, so I don't know where she got that number from.
[ Reply | Options ]Sure it is the case. If all you care about is getting into "any" highly ranked college, and you need extra help to achieve that, then a private school is for you. However, unless you are one of Brearley's "chosen" Harvard applicants that year, you probably won't get in. If you are the top student at a no-name school, you have a far better chance of getting into Harvard, and frankly, can easily get into one of the other top schools you list if you are a top student.
[ Reply | Options ]If all you care about is college admissions and judge a school by that alone than I fear for your DC. The difference a top education makes is immeasurable. Beyond that, you would never convince anyone here that a no name public with 500 students has numbers like any of those listed above. They just don't. Why fight it.
[ Reply | Options ]but they might know how to use colloquialisms appropriately. like peace of mind.
[ Reply | Options ]LOL -- I think YOU are the one judging a school on college admissions! I'm just pointing out that I'd far prefer my extremely smart dc to apply and attend the school of her choice than to be "told" which school she can apply to because the private school decides which kids should go to which colleges. Of course a no name public with 500 students doesn't have those stats because 490 of them don't even apply! But if you are one of the 10 students who do aspire to those schools, you get a great chance to go to the school YOU want, not the one that helps the private school have good exmission stats! That's what I want for my dc -- don't you?
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In your anger you failed to address the first part of my post which was pointing out that education, rather than admissions stats, makes a school. That, rather than a perceived shot of HYP by their mother, is what I want for DC. So clearly you would prefer - in your belief that public allows you to go to better schools more easily - that your dc suffer from a poor education so that they can struggle at Harvard rather than a great education and excel at U of C.
[ Reply | Options ]LOL -- do you think if you call me "angry" enough I'll actually get angry? Because I won't! I just laugh! This post is about admissions stats. I've posted my own opinion on a "better education" elsewhere, but I'll say it again. My sibs and I went from a no-name public to those schools listed above and graduated summa and magna cum laude. Surprise! The top achievers at all those schools are as likely to be from public schools as privates.
[ Reply | Options ]^^^and the only conclusion I can make if you keep insisting that the education at a private school is far superior is that the kids from private schools are far more stupid to begin with! Because if education was indeed "superior", then smart kid + 13 years "tt" education should easily surpass smart kid + 13 years "poor" education when they get to college, right?
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i have posted this question before and i'll post it again. if nyc privates are so superior to publics and privates anywhere else, why oh why, pray tell, is there not ONE SINGLE NOBEL PRIZE WINNER from any of these schools for the last 100 years? please, someone, anyone, answer!
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Hey, you left out the B mom who was all upset that dd ended up at SUNY when neighbor's Stuy dc went to Dartmouth.
[ Reply | Options ]Where was that post? b mother here and I would say that sounds like someone posing as a b mother to get a reaction
[ Reply | Options ]no, no, it was a serious post from last spring. no one was snarky, people were really supportive, and saying that whatever school it was (i can't remember) is actually strong in the arts. i think she said she felt embarrassed to have spent so much $$$ when neighbor didn't. but people responded like, well, dd got a great education for K-12, and she'll always have that. but if you're at B (I am guessing you are at the lower school), you have to know that in addition to substantial turnover at MS/HS, many dcs just don't go to great colleges.
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Golly, you don't supposed the kids who attend these schools have a leg up in terms of wealth, privledge, education, vested parents, etc etc, do you?
[ Reply | Options ]They probably have a leg up over you in spelling. What's your point? This is not comparing
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You know the % of the Bushes that went to Yale? What a special family!! Must be all very smart.
[ Reply | Options ]Not a Republican, didn't vote for any of them, but last time I checked, they were Presidents and Senators. Who are you?
[ Reply | Options ]Not sure what your point is. Mine is that posting these stats are meaningless, because the Bushes didn't go to Yale or became Senators because of their own merits, but because they have had several legs up in their lives. The kids who attend these private schools have several legs up, too, so posting what their "exmissions" are does not mean the schools are magical places that churn out Ivy grads.
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of GHWBush's 4(?) kids, only Dubya went to Yale. Because after admiting him, Yale decided it could do better than take the bottom-quarter of an Andover graduating class. Bush's 3 other kids did not go Ivy. True story.
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I think schools with similar sized graduating classes should be compared with each other; i.e., Brearley with Spence, Chapin, NBS, Collegiate, etc and in another group, HM with Trinity, Dalton, etc. It doesn't seem fair if a school gets 5 kids into Harvard, say, and have it total to 10% of their class whereas another school needs to get 20 kids into Harvard for it to count as 10%.
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