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On TV.com: Why Is Everyone in TV High School SO OLD
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  • [-]The fact is that schools promote their biggest donors to the best schools. So even if your kid is brilliant and at a TT school, if you are not a big donor to the TT or to the college, they are not going to push for you. Happened to us at HM.

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    11.20.09, 10:26 AM [ Flag ]
    • this is BS. or should i say, that while they will push for the big donors, they don't "not push" for other students.

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      11.20.09, 10:29 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]
    • Keep it just to NY Schools, or better yet keep it no where.

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      11.20.09, 10:31 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]
    • you are using this as an excuse. College admissions are more independent than this.

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      11.20.09, 10:33 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]
      • ITA. Its not like K admission.

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        11.20.09, 10:36 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]
        • No, they're not. The college counselor at the TT school will not even recommend the top colleges to your kid if you are not a major donor or alum there. Trust me on this.

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          11.20.09, 10:39 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]
          • guess what! you don't have to apply only to those colleges recommended by the high school. You are totally wrong with this whole premise.

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            11.20.09, 10:41 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]
            • Right but say your kid, who gives little $$ to the school or the college, is applying, vs. other kid, perhaps with lower grades but whose fam built the library. Comprende?

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              11.20.09, 10:43 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]
              • np: your example is so extreme as to be useless. very, very few families have the $ to build a library. your OP is flawed in so many ways and clearly just an attempt to explain away poor results to yourself.

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                11.20.09, 10:46 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]
              • again, maybe it matters at some schools that really need the $$$ and don't have other big donors, but this is simply not true at hyp

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                11.20.09, 10:47 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]
                • so why take bush? bc of name and not necessarily donor potential?

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                  11.20.09, 10:56 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]
                  • btw, admissions today are much much more competitive than back then, and legacies matter much less (though they still matter)

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                    11.20.09, 11:02 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]
                    • ITA. Bush probably wouldn't have been admitted today. Remember, even though he was in the WH, only one of his two DCs got in.

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                      11.20.09, 11:18 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]
                      • weren't his dds already in college in 2000? either way, did jenna want yale? we don't know if she even applied. she seems very UT to me (not necessarily a bad thing).

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                        11.20.09, 11:20 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]
                        • You're right, they both took a year off to help him campaign between HS and college. So he had been Gov of Texas and they were 4th generation Yale when applying. If I had to guess, the Yale Admissions Office told Jenna not to apply, it would have been too embarrassing when she got rejected (really poor grades/SATs).

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                          11.20.09, 11:25 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]
                        • they probably would have to be REALLY low for her not to get in. shia la beouf was accepted sometime in the past 2 years. maybe they admitted him bc he is so hot?

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                          11.20.09, 11:27 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]
                        • maybe, maybe not. alumni brats are not guaranteed admissions anymore, not even after 4 generations, even when the last name is Bush. they will get advance warning if they are not going to be admitted, though. the only guarantees go to trustee's DCs/grandDCs.

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                          11.20.09, 11:36 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]
                        • well, it does seem like an unusually high number of celeb offspring go to top schools. i remain skeptical.

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                          11.20.09, 11:39 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]
                        • (a) those are the ones you hear about - they aren't talking when DC is going to Nassau Community College; (b) despite what you might think, many of these people are very smart themselves - they probably wouldn't have been as successful without some semblance of a brain (although I'm not talking Paris Hilton-types, I'm talking Meryl Streep-types), (c) they could afford the best educations for their DCs from the start and you are paying attention to it, most people don't notice or care until someone's Dad shows up to speak at graduation.

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                          11.20.09, 11:46 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]
                        • well, it does seem like celeb offspring either go to Ivy or become DJs. In any event, you won't convince me that the offspring of Jack Nicholson and Rebecca Broussard is smart. Meryl Streep, yes, she went to Vassar and Yale before she was famous. That's how you know if someone is truly smart, and Ivy isn't just taking them bc s/he starred in Transformers 3. I went Ivy, there were plenty of stupid kids there with rich & famous parents. Contrary to popular belief, the hardest thing is getting in. Almost no one flunks out.

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                          11.20.09, 11:52 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]
                      • just so you know. jack nicholson's dd is at brown. her mom is rebecca broussard. so is denzel's dd. now tell me again last name doesn't matter.

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                        11.20.09, 11:21 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]
              • if your family built the library at the college they don't need the HS to push for them. if they built the library at the HS the college doesn't care. the HS is more concerned with the % accepts at top schools than with which kids they are. those acceptance numbers are what keeps people flocking to them

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                11.20.09, 10:55 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]
    • guess this could be true, i know it's def not true at hyp (my friend did admissions covering nyc privates). they take who they want to take (kind of like hm in nursery). fc, etc matters not at all.

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      11.20.09, 10:35 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]
    • I doubt Harvard is concerned about keeping Trinity or any other private happy. They'll get plenty of qualified applicants even if nobody in NYC applies. Therefore they can take who they want.

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      11.20.09, 10:38 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]
      • Not true. NYC is a big market for them. You don't get to be a top school by making schools unhappy

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        11.21.09, 06:01 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]
    • A TT guidance counselor is not going to push a big donor kid who is not qualified over students who are qualified. They would lose all credibility with the top schools.

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      11.20.09, 10:47 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]
    • Sorry but I think the real answer here is either your child is NOT brilliant or you and dh are a PITA or most likely both of these factors.

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      11.20.09, 10:47 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]
      • Ok. Check back with me when your kid at the TT school starts getting told to apply to some crappy school even though he has kick-ass SATs.

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        11.20.09, 12:00 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
        • So you believe that being at a tt and having good SATs means a child is automatically an excellent candidate for HYP? I really do get the need for defense mechanisms for coping with life's unpleasantries, but I don't get the need to convince the world at large that your coping mechanisms are reality.

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          11.20.09, 12:31 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
    • This is the premise of "The Price of Admission"- that legacy status, connections and "development potential" or donation potential trump smarts as an admission criteria at almost all elite colleges.

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      11.20.09, 10:55 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]
      • And it is the truth.

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        11.20.09, 12:02 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
      • true. but Princeton's decision to admit a legacy moron is its own choice. It didn't succumb to pressure from moron's HS college admission counselor. That's the diff. The HS has its own interests to protect.

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        11.20.09, 12:12 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
        • ^^ I meant to add that top schools takes lots of smart kids based on grades/scores alone. money, legacy status, and connections will never trump brains. But if 2 applicants have the same grades/scores, then yes, those other things matter.

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          11.20.09, 12:15 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
          • ITA. The top schools have so many qualified applicants they can't possibly admit them all. Therefore, a qualified leg or child of someone with status will have a leg up over a qualified nobody. This child will also have even more of a leg up because they have been given priviledges and opportunities that help them to shine. They may have traveled extensively, had an expensive private school education and/or access to internships or volunteer opportunities that appeal to colleges and make them appear more interesting. This is the way of the world and continues after college through grad school and jobs. To deny this is silly.

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            11.20.09, 02:10 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
          • Well, look at GWB. He did not have same score as others. Still got into Yale. Al Gore's son who's a dufus got into H bec of his father.

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            11.20.09, 02:21 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
    • This is such phony crAp to make you fell better about not getting into HYP or about not gettiNg your DC into HM. Just stop already THESE SCHOOLS ARE NOT OUT TO GET YOU IF THEY WANTED YOU YOU WOULD BE THERE

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      11.20.09, 11:49 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]
    • total bull. No school will push a kid who risks being an embarrassment. because that's the last time colleges will pay any attention to that school's choices. you push a kid, you better be certain it doesn't blow-up in your face.

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      11.20.09, 12:09 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
  • [-]If there's the dc of a celeb/"bold-named" in your dc's class is it completely 'normal'-- do they interact w/class, go to school functions. Do they befriend any of the other parents? Are your dc friends? BTW -I'm a public school parent, just curious.

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    11.19.09, 01:05 PM [ Flag ]
    • My dd is good friend's with Pilot Inspektor, Apple, and Kal-el.

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      11.19.09, 01:08 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
    • Good question, but I believe most people on here will feel that they are to "cool" to answer question.

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      11.19.09, 01:09 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
      • You're right. One mother in pre-k w/older dc at dalton was so obvious in her name-dropping it was humorous. But that was her personality.

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        11.19.09, 01:22 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
    • I grew up in WashDC. Parents of my friends were household-name politicians and journalists. (Nothing like talking to BF's dad when his face is on the TV in the background.) Just act normal and talk about normal things. But don't pretend you don't know who they are.

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      11.19.09, 01:15 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
      • me too! i'm an ncs alum, what about you?

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        11.19.09, 01:27 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
        • NCS waaay back. Then Exeter.

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          11.19.09, 01:29 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
        • Hey! Sidwell alum here. Big names were everywhere. But unlike NYC, the big names in DC actually WERE important. Not just rich or famous.

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          11.19.09, 07:41 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
          • politicians are NOT important. they are high-level bureaucrats. they are not glamorous. and they are ugly. would much rather see movie stars at curriculum night than some loser congressman.

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            11.20.09, 06:47 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]
            • Let me assure you, top pols are every bit as exciting as movie stars. And second-tier pols as boring as your average TV actor.

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              11.20.09, 06:52 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]
              • lolllllllllllll. whatever. keep telling yourself that. top pol like ????

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                11.20.09, 06:55 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]
                • I met Clinton and he was riveting. So him for instance.

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                  11.20.09, 07:01 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]
                • Obama. Ted K. (r.i.p.) Bill & Hillary. My parents knew Robert Kennedy very well -- mom said if he'd asked, she would have slept with him. And she never said that about Warren Beatty who is also their friend.

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                  11.20.09, 07:21 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]
                  • i am sorry, but out of the 5 you mentioned, 2 are basically historical figures! and no one in nyc, on this board or otherwise, gossips about patterson or schumer. no one cares, when there are so many more interesting people to notice.

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                    11.20.09, 07:38 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]
            • I'm the Sidwell poster and I wasn't referring only to politicians, in fact, didn't think of them in that post. Bob Woodward, Marion Wright Edelman, Mike Wallace, etc. But of course, meeting Bill and Hillary at the annual auction was cool too.

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              11.20.09, 07:03 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]
              • omg. i just fell asleep thinking about those BIG NAMES!!

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                11.20.09, 07:39 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]
                • OMP, ITA. They're totally not exciting like Spencer and Heidi or the Kardasians.

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                  11.20.09, 07:40 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]
                  • huh? this is NYC, not the OC. and why are you listing people who are all over 60 years old? doesn't exactly make DC sound like a young and vibrant city.

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                    11.20.09, 07:44 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]
                    • OR: Many more important people in DC than NYC...I never said DC was a more vibrant city!

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                      11.20.09, 07:52 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]
                    • People over 60 can't be important. Who are the important people in NYC to whom you're referring? All the names I see being posted on this thread are actors. You can't honestly believe they're important?

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                      11.20.09, 07:54 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]
                      • Just do an UB poll, who would you be more excited to have as a fellow class parent, bono & seinfeld or the HUD secretary. see who wins. lol again.

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                        11.20.09, 08:16 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]
                        • Just because a bunch of vapid sycophants in NYC would be more excited to see these people doesn't make them more important. Do you really not see the distinction?

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                          11.20.09, 06:01 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
      • Are you guys still on? I'm in DC now and applying to Pre-K and need to discuss GDS and Beauvoir. Would love to chat if you're around...

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        11.20.09, 06:51 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]
    • there was a celebrity dad we knew. his wife was really nice and did all pick-up/drop-off. he was usually on tour, but when he was around he was not very nice. our kids were friends, but even at playdates, if he was around he was really cold and aloof. i think it had more to do with being a jerk than being a celebrity, though! didn't volunteer to fix/build things like many of the other dads or anything like that.

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      11.19.09, 01:29 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
    • there was one family in dd's school. very normal. mom (who was the celeb) would pick up her own kids and others after school in her suv. kids participated in plays, chorus, fundraising - just like anyone else. Parents showed up to conferences etc, no fanfare. i didnt know her personally (differnt grade)but she always said hi to me and everyone else and she had several close friends in other moms who were not celebs/super wealthy. It;s probably one of the few places where they can feel normal. their kids hung out with all the kids in their classes.

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      11.19.09, 01:30 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
    • When I was a little girl I saw Roxie Roker and her kid at the airport. That kid, who was about my age, grew up to be that one guy on the radio. And they totally snubbed my mom and I.

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      11.19.09, 01:34 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
    • I'll bite- there is the dc of a famous actress in my ds's preschool class- I noticed this child from the get go because they are exceptionally beautiful looking- had no idea whatsoever that the parents were famous until I got the class list. This should give you a clue- they are very low key parents- the less famous parent is an active member of the school community - the much more famous one is much lower key- just modestly does pick up and drop off- some kids in the class with nannies do playdates with this child- who, despite being child model looking- is a typical charming normal 3yo-you'd never know in a million years.

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      11.19.09, 01:46 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
    • Anyone at Dalton who knows Bono's kids ... and their parents? What are they like? How do they interact with the other kids and parents in the grade?

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      11.19.09, 02:16 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
    • Not me, but a good friend's dc goes to school w/dc of someone extremely famous. My friend has become a "mom friend" of this actress and it is hilarious to think about b/c my friend is so down to earth and non show-biz. But the kids have play dates together etc. and she and this actress are just like regular mom friends.

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      11.19.09, 02:16 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
    • My dd isn't in school yet. But I work with celebrities and my experience even the crazies are pretty normal when it comes to their kids.

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      11.19.09, 02:36 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
    • i'm a public mom with experience with a couple bold-faced names. the ones i know are completely normal in their interactions with the class but there are boundaries. the home is pretty much off limits, personal information isn't included on the class list. that sort of thing.

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      11.19.09, 02:39 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
      • At our private, the famous mom, married to a famous dad print their gmail e-mails vs. private ones, and they also gave a home address, but it was a temp home at the time.

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        11.19.09, 03:48 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
        • similar at our private. famous musician DH, gmail addresses, but real home address (well-known building, generally tight security)

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          11.19.09, 05:17 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
        • what do you mean they print their gmail e-mails vs private ones? Are you saying its an extra email account they have for spam from dc's friends parents?

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          11.20.09, 07:07 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]
    • We have the child of a very famous personality in DS's class. The Dad (the famous one) has been around upon occasiona nd his wife goes to all b'day parties etc. It must be hard for her but she sucks it up! Very good for the kid, I think. Half the class skips parties because of country houses but they go.

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      11.19.09, 07:33 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
    • Who cares - GAFL

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      11.20.09, 09:14 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]
    • madonna's daughter, lola is very polite and friendly. What a girlie girl!

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      11.20.09, 06:07 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
      • What's Madonna like as a parent in the school? which school?

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        11.20.09, 06:51 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
        • She's nice, she doesn't go to the school so much, but when the schools has some 'special day' that the kids can bring the parents or something like this, when she can go she goes. The school is LYNY

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          11.21.09, 04:38 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]
  • [-]Did you and DH swear off alcohol while TTC? I've read that it's a good idea in a few places and wonder how many people actually do it.

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    09.18.09, 10:49 AM [ Flag ]
    • nope.

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      09.18.09, 10:51 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]
    • LOL. No. Lots of wine involved.

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      09.18.09, 10:56 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]
    • nope. i'm pretty sure i drank even more while TTC knowing that soon i'd be giving up martinis for a very, very long time.

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      09.18.09, 10:59 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]
    • hahahhahahhahah

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      09.18.09, 10:59 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]
    • I think my Dr. even suggested a glass of wine to relax. Being relaxed is key!

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      09.18.09, 11:02 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]
    • No not at all

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      09.18.09, 11:03 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]
    • hells no

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      09.18.09, 11:04 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]
    • I was following my basal body temp and so I figured it was fine to drink up until my estimated ovulation date. Quite amusing - I actually don't drink very much as it is and the month that I conceived I had quite a bit of wine (from winery tours and weddings). Stress is a big hindrance to conception, perhaps all that wine helped lower my stress!!

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      09.18.09, 11:05 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]
    • No but my limit was two drinks max and usually just one.

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      09.18.09, 11:10 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]
    • i drank an i also didn't stop having a glass or two of wine until the doctor confirmed the pregnancy

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      09.18.09, 11:11 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]
    • ttc and i have wine every night..as a matter of fact i even drink wine after the tww of iui..i figured ill give up the wine once i get a ppt..i dont think it effects anything anyway

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      09.18.09, 11:19 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]
      • And your success so far makes you an expert?

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        09.18.09, 11:55 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]
        • im not an expert but i did the no alchol, healthy food, detox and that got me nowhere either..i dont mean drink like a maniac but one or two glasses of wine is not going to do anything

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          09.18.09, 12:19 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
        • i just dont think your total life needs to turn upside down when ttc...if u want wine..drink wine

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          09.18.09, 12:20 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
    • Yes, no alcohol - not hot tubs, not hot baths, dh wore boxers not tightie whitie - trying to think of anything else? Oh yea, I took prenatals while ttc and maybe additional folic acid or I made sure I was getting enough with the prenatal - I don't remember for sure.

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      09.18.09, 11:48 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]
      • wow, I drank wine ttc and i think it helped a bit, even forgot we were ttc from time to time and just had fun.

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        09.18.09, 11:58 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]
        • There really wasn't much to forget, got pregnant first try twice and third month another time! But - we always prepared to ttc with above for a month - just to detox.

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          09.18.09, 12:01 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
    • Friend was trying to conceive for a year...one wkd, went away with hubby, drank a lot of wine, and conceived. You want to be having and happy when you conceive!

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      09.18.09, 12:11 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
    • hell, if it weren't for alcohol, #1 would be an only.

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      09.18.09, 12:17 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
    • nope. my dr. told me that the few drinks I had before I knew I was pg were no problem.

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      09.18.09, 12:23 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
    • nope. neither time. the only real reason to do so would be if you are charting/temping, as i think alcohol elevates your basal body temp.

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      09.18.09, 12:28 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
    • No. I drank wine. I don't think it can hurt, but I wouldn't overdo it or get really drunk.

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      09.18.09, 12:38 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
    • This is a very interesting set of replies. Isn't it true that a blastocyst/zygote is much more sensitive to disruption in the early stages than a more developed fetus is in the later stages?

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      09.21.09, 09:59 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]
      • np It's not attached and isn't sharing your blood supply.

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        09.21.09, 11:19 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]
      • I don't remember where I heard this, (though I want to say my dr.) but there is something like a four week rule that i've heard of. Yes, the zygote is much more sensitive, but because of this, if whatever you're doing doesn't kill it in the first four weeks it will likely be fine. a good percentage of pregnancies are miscarried within the first two weeks because of drinking/this sensitivity, and because your period still arrives on time most women are oblivious to ever having conceived. If you want the baby, I'd give up the proverbial 'sauce'.

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        11.21.09, 03:40 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]
    • I swore off almost entirely (nursed a single drink all night when it would be awkward not to), but didn't ask DH to cut back. Why not be extra careful so early? That said, my best friend, who's a pediatrician, said not to worry about minor consumption, particularly before implantation when you're not even sharing a blood supply. Who knows?

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      09.21.09, 10:59 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]
    • you must be kidding me and dh of course

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      11.21.09, 03:44 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]
  • [-]Does anyone else her have a problem with a certain singer LB who sings about spaghetti?

    23 replies [ Reply | Watch | Options ]
    11.20.09, 05:16 PM [ Flag ]
    • Cannot stand her. She is such a talentless wannabee, and deeply boring.

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      11.20.09, 05:17 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
    • Huh???

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      11.20.09, 05:21 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
    • When my dd was born, my mother ran out and bought the CD and memorized the songs. I had to sit in the back of my parents minivan as they drove around singing that spaghetti song at the top of their lungs. My dd was 12w at the time and really didn't give a hoot, it really was one of the most annoying experiences I have had in the past few years.

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      11.20.09, 05:22 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
    • She just seems so conceited and smug. Cannot bear her. She is like head of pta at our school.

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      11.20.09, 05:23 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
    • I love her! -a dh

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      11.20.09, 06:04 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
    • Please tell me who/what you're talking about.

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      11.20.09, 06:09 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
    • um, what are we talking about here? a singer we won't name who sings about pasta and is the head of a PTA? only in NY folks

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      11.20.09, 06:12 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
    • UB is the ONLY place I have ever heard of this singer. I think someone on here is obsessed with her.

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      11.20.09, 06:30 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
      • she is all over nickjr. you probably do know her...

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        11.20.09, 06:31 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
      • She used to be on the Nick music fillers between shows alot. (May still be my kids are older.)

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        11.20.09, 06:32 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
      • ITTTA!! I'm convinced it's either LB herself or her publicist that keeps posting these innane questions. The only problem with that they usually end up in a flamefest of how boring and banal her music is... probably NOT the type of feedback they would like. But I guess in that line of biz, any publicity is good publicity?! FWIW - my kids immediately ask us to turn the channel when Berkner comes on Nick, for which DH and I are all too eager to comply!! Cannot STAND her "music"

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        11.20.09, 08:06 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
        • I wouldn't mind it so much if she was not such a focal point of all her videos. Cannot bear to see her forced prancing.

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          11.20.09, 08:37 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
    • Wasn't there some movie/TV show where Emma Thompson played a similarly annoying singer? Can't remember what it was but it was hilarious. I always preferred Raffi myself or heck--how about just regular music?

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      11.20.09, 07:14 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
      • A Frasier episode. Emma Thompson played Nanny something, Frasier's ex-wife, whom nobody including Lilith knew about. It was hilarious.

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        11.20.09, 07:51 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
    • Don't know how I feel about her as a talent or as a person, but DC and I love the Goldfish song - "Wait a minute; we're fish. We can't ride bicycles."

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      11.20.09, 07:37 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
    • this is funny. She irritates me but someone on UB is really bothered by her because you post this every other day or so! Wonder if this thread will disappear...

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      11.20.09, 08:35 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
      • First experience with her was free concert in C.park where every person with a dc from NJ and every borough and every state in the union east of the mississippi came. My ds hated it, me too. Nails on the blackboard. Screechy, whiny, nasal and banal.

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        11.21.09, 01:30 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]

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