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  • [-]in such a bind. married a wonderful man i respect greatly but had zero sexual attraction for. been together 10 years. i was screwed up at the time (eating disorders, family trauma, etc) and didnt realize it but NOW i see i made a bargain - emotional security for sex. i have never been happy sexually in our marriage or before. recently met a man thru work that i am madly wildly passionate for and started an affair (flamers field day!) and i have asked my husand for a sep. he is fighting tooth and nail. wants our marriage to work. i feel i am in love with another man and soooooo torn. we have 2 kids. some will say i am selfish. others will say no one wants a martyr for a mother. any experience ub-ers?

    68 replies [ Reply | Watch | Options ]
    11.13.09, 07:03 AM [ Flag ]
    • get some counseling - personal and marital - you owe it to yourself, your dh and your kids!!!

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      11.13.09, 07:09 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]
      • omg, we are in couples, both in individual and both have 12 step programs as support groups

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        11.13.09, 07:11 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]
        • Your sex drive will fade for this other man and you will be left with no "wonderful man" because a wonderful man will not hook up and break up a marriage, you will have given up time with your children and broken your family for orgasms. Please stay with your husband.

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          11.19.09, 11:34 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]
    • why would you think good sex = love and conversely, bad sex = a bad marriage?

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      11.13.09, 07:12 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]
      • ita

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        11.13.09, 07:16 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]
      • hmm, i dont think of it that simply but have passion, sexual desire, sensual experiences with my partner are important to me. these are things i have forsaken in my life til now. i am 37 and just realizing that sexuality is extremely important."sex" isnt just a tiny compartment of life.

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        11.13.09, 07:19 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]
        • you do realize that even if you end up with the new guy and end up marrying him (a big if) - the passion eventually fades anyway. I'm not saying that it disappears, but there's no way it will sustain at its current, we're doing something illicit and wild and carefree, level.

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          11.13.09, 07:50 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]
    • Catholics have to go to pre-marriage counseling before we get married, it's called pre-cana. And I still remember the Priest talking to us. He said, " I always tell couples, you will meet the person you should have married after you are already married. Marriage is a choice you make each day when you wake up." If you are done making the choice to be married, I don't think its really fair that you stay with your lover. You owe it to yourself, kids, and husband actually, to separate, and get your act together, before diving in with the new guy. Sex does not last.

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      11.13.09, 07:18 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]
      • hmm, so interesting what your priest says. do you meet the man you should have married as a test to your commitment to marriage? i feel like i committed to my marriage because i didnt know what else to do.

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        11.13.09, 07:24 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]
        • I thought it was really great advice. I took it that marriage is hard work. You have to do the work every day. And of course, anyone who has dated someone for 3 years knows it gets old, and boring, and its tempting to look around. Do you do the work, or throw in the towel. To OP, I would say, I find your husband attractive that he was a loyal, loving husband and father for 10 years, much more attractive to me than your lover who would break up a family. I really do. I have a number of single girlfriends I would like to set your soon to be ex-husband up with after you have left him. He soudns like an honrable guy.

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          11.13.09, 07:31 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]
      • what great advice

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        11.13.09, 10:12 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]
    • I find it amazing that you found a man whom you respect, who was willing to go through all your screwed up stuff, and be the father to your children and is willing to fight for you tooth and nail that you don't value him and your family enough to find a way to improve your sex life with him. HOnestly, Ithink he is the martyr in this situation - I think you would be foolish to throw all this away and will probably really regret it. It sounds like you have a long pattern of self-destructive behavior and this affair is part of it. Affairs are self-destructive - and destructive of others. Is the affair all about sex or is there more to it?

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      11.13.09, 07:23 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]
      • much more to it. he is emotionally present, we get along very well, "get" each other, both have walked through really difficult stuff. by martyr, i meant being in a sexless, safe marriage because i "owe" it to him, rather than having the courage to creatie the life & love i want? also - i have taken my husband to sex therpay several times. he wasnt willing to look at himself. it;s always ME that is the problem.

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        11.13.09, 07:27 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]
        • more from OP, i value my family and kids tremendously but i am not so attached to the hallmark picture of a nuclear family to suppress all of my desires to maintain that picture. sounds like a recipe for divorce once the kids go to college. my therapist says i have re-created the incest of my childhood by having 10 years of sex that i d idnt want to have. literally, REPULSED by my husband's body. but always made it MY FAULT for thinking that. maybe we dont have "chemistry". can you conjure chemistry?

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          11.13.09, 07:31 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]
          • Well, to be completely honest, my DH has packed on the pounds over the years, and objectively, probably isn't THE sexiest man alive. But he loves our family, our kids, and me. So yes, you can conjure chemistry.

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            11.13.09, 07:34 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]
          • more from OP - trust me, i am terrified of making a decision i will regret. i couldnt live with that... so i am doing tons and tons of work on myself and the marriage to see what can be improved. including 86'ing the affair.

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            11.13.09, 07:34 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]
            • it really doesn't matter how physically unattracted you are to your husband, that's no excuse for hurting him in this way. and it doesn't matter how dysfunctional your family/childhood was, you are a grown woman responsible for your own actions and your actions are inexcusable. if you were terminally unhappy with your marriage, you should have ended it before you moved onto another intimate relationship. can you imagine your two children someday trying to blame their adult problems on the fact that their mother was a damaged, selfish, addictive personality who broke up their family and destroyed their father all because she cared more about her sex life with a boyfriend than her marriage and family? doesn't sound like a pattern you should b...

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              11.13.09, 08:02 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]
          • np-can you read in your post that you are blaming someone and assuming THEY must have something wrong with them ("can you conjure chemistry"?) This is a pattern. it's NOT everyone else's fault. You need to take a step back and stop acting like an 18 yr old school girl.

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            11.13.09, 07:35 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]
            • this is after 10 years of thinking it was ALL me. and taking full responsibility for the fact that our sex life wasnt working.

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              11.13.09, 07:59 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]
        • np-your frame is all wrong. you dont stay in a marriage because you owe it to them. you stay in because of all of hte blessings that you have and because you YOURSELF made a commitment to be married. you need to stop thinking about what you dont have and start thinking about what you value. do you value truthfulness? honesty? doing what you said you would do? therapy isnt about the other person's problems. it's about our OWN. what is it inside of you that thinks you should be so callous with these tremendous blessings?

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          11.13.09, 07:33 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]
          • i havent been callous. i have been completely devoted and focused ENTIRELY on what a wonderful man he is for 10 years. i have only looked at my own deficiencies and blocks. (see my postings above). i do feel incredibly blessed. i think because of my sexual trauma and abuse though, i chose a man based on that framework. not from a healthy confident place. so, do you believe in the "you've made your bed now lie in it" way of approaching life? do you believe people who stay in sexless repressed marriages benefit their children? i grew up in a sexless home and that is why i had NO IDEA about sexuality in life and married someone who repulsed me physically.

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            11.13.09, 07:39 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]
            • look. i'm sure that you and your therapist have discussed this a good deal. but the tone of your email is "i" this and "i" that. it's all about you. which is a framework for life you get to have before YOU choose the responsibility of creating a family. then it doesnt get to be "i" "i". once YOU make that choice, whoever you were when you made it, then your frame needs to shift. otherwise, yes, you are callous and self absorbed. period.

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              11.13.09, 07:44 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]
              • i have put my husband's feeling before mine for the last 10 years. he was so afraid of losing me he didnt want me to go to rehab because he was afraid i would "get well" and leave him, was afraid if me going on a retreat because it sounds risque to him and thereatened him, my post sounds all I I I because YES it finally is about me. most of my life has been about people pleasing for survival, my family, now my husband. it sounds like YOUR framework for life is VERY punitive. no one can change their mind. no one can make mistakes.

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                11.13.09, 07:55 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]
                • Oh OP, best of luck to you, Sex isn't everything but it is a very important,vital energy. It sounds like you need to have a realized sexual existence. If it isn't with your husband, you'll need to suffer that loss. I'm truly sorry.

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                  11.13.09, 07:59 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]
                  • i am praying it's with my husband. and leaving no stone unturned.

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                    11.13.09, 08:02 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]
                    • it sounds to me like you've had way too much therapy if you ask me. i have experience with your type in my own dysfunctional family. you've had so much therapy that you know all the lingo (so you, therefore, "know it all" and are pretty much beyond help at this point). and, because you are so well-versed in all this psycho-babble, you have gotten to the point where you see everyone's deficiencies but your own. if you had only stayed faithful, this whole story would read much differently. but your infidelity, in my opinion, is unconscionable.

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                      11.13.09, 08:22 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]
                • NP: You are clearly very mad at your husband. I am not shrink, bt I would guess you are deflecting, or trying t make yourself mad at him so he's easier to leave?? Also, you talk so much about hte importance of sexuality in life.. it's odd to me. I just don't see it as important. Maybe 5% of our marriage is sexuality, 25% humor, etc..

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                  11.13.09, 08:03 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]
          • np: How can such a wise person like you be on UB?

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            11.13.09, 07:54 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]
            • is that to OP or the woman saying i made my bed now lie in it?

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              11.13.09, 07:56 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]
              • It was a sincere compliment for the second.

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                11.13.09, 07:59 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]
                • why ? because she is saying that you just have to stick out your commitments even though it is a daily inner torture? because he is a good man? because sex "isnt everything"? never said it was "everything" but ANY marraige counselor will say that physical attraction and chemistry is a MUST. unless BOTH partners do not value sexual vitality.

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                  11.13.09, 08:04 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]
    • The point at which you were most selfish is when you married him - not now (yes, yes, I know you had issues). Does he know that you actually find him repulsive and he's OK with that? If he is, what about an open marriage?

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      11.13.09, 08:03 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]
      • trust me - i know that is when i was most selfish and it is a testament to how little i trusted myself and my instincts. i had a teeny tiny voice saying he wasnt the one but i didnt trust myself as i had made so many bad decisions. i have told him t hat i never truly chose to have a SEXUAL relationship with him. that i have always done it to please him, never myself. he knows this now.. and is accepting it. and now that we are FINALLY being honest with each other we are looking at how we can COMPLETELY re-boot our sex life. reading books... looking at more spiritual appraoches to sex

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        11.13.09, 08:08 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]
        • Oh my goodness. How could you say this to him? I'm siging off this post, because it is so upsetting. I feel for your DH. If my DH told me he only had sex w me to please me, not himself, I would be heartbroken. If you hate him so much, please do leave him. Let him find a loving wife who will be there through thick and thin. There are many more single women out there.

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          11.13.09, 08:13 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]
          • just because i am a wofe and mother doesnt mean i am NOT allowed to WAKE UP and find my god amd find my truth. wives and mothers have rights too.

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            11.13.09, 08:42 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]
            • it sounds as if you've made up your mind. But don't ask for approval. You won't get it and don't deserve it. If all this is worth it to you to leave your dh, you must understand what it will cost you.

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              11.13.09, 10:09 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]
    • You did your husband a great disservice by marrying him when you felt no attraction at all towards him. It was selfish and you basically used him for security. You did a greater disservice by having two children with this husband that you felt repulsed by. And now you want to dump them all because you want a better life? You do not sound worthy of your husband or children and I hope he gets them in a custody battle, because he is better suited to be a responsible parent. I'm sorry you had an early trauma, but does that give you license to do what you will do to three people? I say NO. You've made your decisions, now honor up to them.

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      11.13.09, 08:14 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]
      • i am worthy. i am.

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        11.13.09, 08:39 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]
        • also - read Mira Kirshenbaum's 'why good people have affairs" and get off your high horse. the fall is long and hard for people like you.

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          11.13.09, 08:40 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]
          • more psycho-babble. just so you know, there's a self-help book out there that can justify any and everything. still doesn't make it ok.

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            11.13.09, 08:49 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]
    • I feel like this could have been written by a man, and he would be ripped to shreds on this board.

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      11.13.09, 09:02 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]
      • You've missed the point; most here do not approve or respect what she has done and the kids and dh are the innocent victims. OP needs to own up to responsibility and not cause pain to family. OP is an adolescent mentality with a fantasy life when she has dc who need her to be an adult.

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        11.13.09, 09:09 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]
        • That wasn't the point of the OP, to which I responded to. It was the point of the other posters.

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          11.13.09, 09:23 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]
    • sexual attraction is NOT a good thing to base a relationship on. Respect and trust come in MUCH more handy. Don't know about you, but any man I was ever really attracted to and had great sex with was not someone whom I trusted or respected very much. I would advise you to work on your sex life with your dh. Take it as a challenge, you never know!! Think of all the pain and suffering you will cause the way you're going

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      11.13.09, 09:07 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]
    • my mother broke up a stable (though there were problems) family for a man she was into sexually (though that of course didn't last, it never does). I have sympathy for her, but after years of analysis therapy and bad behavior on my part, but only after that and a lot of grief, I have trained myself to make better choices than her. But it was very very hard, and I wish I had had better models.

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      11.13.09, 09:10 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]
      • exact same thing happened in our family, when i was in my mid-20s. ditto the bad behavior, ditto the grief, ditto therapy. children get emotionally and psychologically clobbered in these situations. i feel for OP's dh and dcs.

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        11.13.09, 01:28 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
    • The sexual fire with this guy will die eventually. Try and think what is underneath that in this new man, because that is what you will be stuck with if you go with him, and all that destruction behind you.

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      11.13.09, 09:12 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]
    • Lone dissenter here. You get one life. If you and your husband are not happy together, you don't need to stay out of some type of obligation. Separate.

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      11.13.09, 09:25 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]
      • not alone - the most selfish part was marrying him in the first place (though from some of OPs posts, if looks like dh was looking for someone who was easy to control) - that's done and shouldn't necessarily be perpetuated. If they can't ignite the fire or agree to let the fire be ignited elsewhere, then enough.

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        11.13.09, 09:31 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]
        • I just don't think divorce is the worst thing ever. Even if we disagree with every choice she made in the past, she is here now, and basically can get a divorce and pursue happiness. JMO.

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          11.13.09, 09:33 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]
          • NP: Do you seriously think she'll find happiness with this other guy? (And let's be honest, the other guy is the reason she's contemplating leaving, not some great personal epiphany like she's trying to paint it above.) I feel like we'll just see another thread from her a few years down the road with lots of ALL CAPS talking about everything that's wrong with guy #2 and it's not really her fault because it was her first bad marriage that made her make this mistake in her second marriage and . . .

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            11.13.09, 09:40 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]
    • Dh is willing to fight tooth and nail but is not willing to work on making himself more attractive? That doesn't seem to jibe.

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      11.13.09, 09:29 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]
      • If nothing else, you would think he would shed a few pounds from all the tooth and nail fighting!

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        11.13.09, 09:40 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]
    • is your lover going to weave into what would be your new life as a single mother with two dc, or are you going to give custody to ex-dh? it's not like you're single w/o kids and can flop in bed whenever you want. is lover going to fit into any kind of life with whatever custody arrangments would be made? think about that.

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      11.13.09, 09:46 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]
      • np: I'll join in with the lone dissenter above and say that if you feel the marriage is beyond repair, then leave. Divorce isn't the end of everything, and if you can find a way to build a happier life, then I say go for it. Yes, you took vows but every once in a while, life goes askew, and as the poster wrote above, you only have one life to live. Go out and live it.

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        11.13.09, 09:55 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]
        • tritto regarding having one life to lead. But remember, things in our head don't always translate so neatly into real life, i.e. the sexy boyfriend and happily ever after. Also, let's be fair: any guy that is fighting tooth and nail to stay in a miserable situation has some serious co-dependency issues of his own.

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          11.13.09, 05:37 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
          • OR from above: yes, there is no doubt that the boyfriend in the wings has been idealized, but objectively, it does seem like she feels that her marriage is beyond repair. And like it or not, sometimes marriage is. (And nope, I'm not divorced - married 8 yrs...and I know you're agreeing w/me, so I'm directing this at other posters, not you :) I think what someone suggested above is probably best: leave husband AND boyfriend. Figure herself out first.

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            11.13.09, 05:47 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
    • My heart goes out to your husband, and that the reward for his loyalty and care for you will be such suffering.

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      11.13.09, 10:04 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]
    • I think you should think about your kids first. What effect will your split have on them? They are going to learn that you cheated on their dad. They will probably learn that their dad desperately tried to save your marriage. The other man is going to be gone in a matter of time, and if you think you feel unhappy and unfulfilled now, just think about how you're going to feel as a single mom. You're enjoying the passion and excitement now, but it's just temporary. I have seen this happen so many times. Odds are so stacked against you--this thing with the other guy is not going to work out, and you are going to be alone, and your kids' lives are going to suffer for your bad judgment. Try to look at this like a grownup and make things work wit...

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      11.13.09, 05:56 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
    • eventually you'll lose the passion for new guy, it will become a intense friendship with the same 'emotional security' (or maybe not even that)...and then you'll miss the old father of your kids. just screw around with new guy a few times to get it out of your system during the separation, realize he has a ugly dick, and then go back to old guy with a new appreciation for him.

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      11.15.09, 11:41 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
  • [-]marriage vs. living together - I am divorced not planning to have anymore children. My boyfriend of 1.5 years proposed we move in together. I have a dd - she is 6 years old. He does NOT want to get married officially, as I found out yesterday after all BUT he wants a long term relationship. I want to be married. What would you do?

    21 replies [ Reply | Watch | Options ]
    11.10.09, 12:56 PM [ Flag ]
    • If you want to be married, do not move in with him.

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      11.10.09, 12:57 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
      • but maybe I am just being stubborn... Should I care? Does it make sense?

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        11.10.09, 12:58 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
        • Yes, of course you should care. Marriage is a commitment, moving in together is zero commitment. You clearly want the stability for yourself and for your daughter.

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          11.10.09, 12:59 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
        • Well personally I wouldn't care about getting married if I don't want anymore children. But if you do want to get married that's normal and I wouldn't move in with him until he's proposed, given you a ring and you've set a date.

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          11.10.09, 12:59 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
          • ^^also I have a dd also and I can't imagine having her living around another man until she's at a minimum an older teenager. I just trust no one nowadays.

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            11.10.09, 01:04 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
    • Personally I would not move in with a BF while I have a young dd. Maybe if she were off in college, I would because then my life would be more about me. But unless someone wanted to make the commitment I wanted, I wouldn't consider the relationship serious.

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      11.10.09, 01:01 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
    • I guess also logistically - I want to be protected. As his wife, will I have more rights in the event we divorce??? TIA...

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      11.10.09, 01:01 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
    • All that matters is what's best for your dd. If she needs the stability and a father figure then this clearly is NOT the man. Someone who can just pick up and leave someday offers you and dd no stability.

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      11.10.09, 01:02 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
      • thank you... You're probably right... He has been through a painful divorce himself and so is hesitant to marry again, I believe.

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        11.10.09, 01:04 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
    • thank you. ladies.. i think it all makes sense. I guess if he felt he truly wanted to spend the rest of his life with me, he WOULD propose! :( how much longer should i give him???

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      11.10.09, 01:03 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
    • If you want to be married, then tell him this is not going to work for you. Especially because you have to consider that you have a 6 year old who is looking to you to model what relationships should be like. She needs a stable family life, and especially because you want to get married eventually, you shouldn't take a chance on this guy and his idea of a "long term relationship." you might consider setting a time limit--for yourself--for how long you are willing to give him before he proposes.

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      11.10.09, 01:03 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
    • Do not let him move in. If he does not want to get married, that is fine, so you tell him. But he cannot live with your child either. A very handsome, childless, male friend was telling me recently he thinks marriage is dated, just doesn't work anymore, and I kidn of agreed with him, except on the children front. Kids need two parents. Or they certainly thrive having two parents. If your boyfriend just moves in, he can just move out, and your daughter doesn't need that.

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      11.10.09, 01:10 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
    • I agree with everyone here, tell him that you want to be married, set a deadline in your head and be prepared to walk away while you can. Especially since you have a dd to worry about. You don't need the added stress wondering if he is ever going to marry you and the stress of moving out if he decides he doesn't.

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      11.10.09, 01:11 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
    • thank you all. this makes me sad but this is reality. I guess I am with a man who is terrified of marriage.

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      11.10.09, 01:12 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
      • that is sad, but you should deal with it now, it will be much more painful later. You have to do what's right for you and your daughter, not Mr. I'am afraid to commit to anyone, but damn its nice to come home to somebody.

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        11.10.09, 01:24 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
      • i posted above about setting a time limit for yourself. i would talk with him before giving up on him completely. i would let him know that you need a relationship in which marriage is in the future, and can't move forward until that happens. if he's a good guy, he will understand you are doing what is right for you and your daughter. and he might come around after all! plenty of men are terrified of marriage, but get married and find themselves very happy after all.

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        11.10.09, 01:28 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
  • [-]Need to move to Boston area for DH's job. Any advice? Would we be miserable in the 'burbs? What towns have great schools? It would make the most sense for DH's commute to be south of the city.

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    11.05.09, 01:02 PM [ Flag ]
    • Friends who are international urban types and both WOH FT live in Weston and are happy and love the schools - kids are in later elementary school.

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      11.05.09, 01:06 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
    • how adaptable are you? how good are you with change? Hingham has a great school system.

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      11.05.09, 01:06 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
      • OP- Uh semi-adaptable? I'm already transitioning from a WOHM to SAHM. DH's new job involves a big raise. Does Hingham have public transit? The MBTA website is crap.

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        11.05.09, 01:12 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
        • Hingham has a boat and a commuter rail. Excellent schools, adorable coastal town.

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          11.05.09, 02:22 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
        • Yes it does. My husband grew up in Hingham and his family is still there. I go there a few times a year and it's really very pleasant. It's also just a few minutes from a decent beach and the Harbor is pleasant. Lots of beautiful, historic homes.

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          11.05.09, 02:31 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
    • Boston native here. Newton has the best public schools (arguably in the country) and is convenient for commute to city. If you want to be more "in" the city and not compromise good schools, I'd check out Brookline. Westwood is also a great place for families and a little less jappy than Newton. Wellesley is lovely, too. I see someone rec. that above.

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      11.05.09, 01:14 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
      • my sister lives in brookline...great schools...i like the vibe of being part urban part suburban there that nyc doesn't really have (maybe parts of queens or brooklyn are similar)

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        11.05.09, 01:36 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
        • ita with these two--Brookline and Newton. Wellesley and Weston and Hingham are nice but really, really suburban/far out. Brookline and Newton have great schools and nice walkable neighborhoods, good public trans. and they're not far at all from downtown Boston.

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          11.05.09, 02:01 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
          • np: don't know about newton, but brookline is expensive. many who move farther out into greater suburbia do it to get more space, nicer house, etc.

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            11.05.09, 02:14 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
            • True, but like everywhere else the cost is due to the great schools, ditto Newton. And Wellesley and Weston are both $$$. Acton is nice, pretty suburban/rural and the schools are terrific, but it may be further west than you want. I'd definitely come and have a look around--all of these places are very different. I just prefer someplace like Brookline where you're not in the car all the time and kids have more freedom to roam around on their own once they're middle-school age.

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              11.05.09, 02:40 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
        • brookline is a great place to raise kids, and newton would be too

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          11.06.09, 05:52 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]
      • Newton is great - we live there. Fairly easy to get into the city (commuter rail, depending on where you live, or drive on the pike) and it is close enough in that even with traffic driving doesn't take too long. Good schools, although dcs are not old enough yet- it is why we picked this town. It is very jewish though, I think at least 50%, if that matters to you. Is DH's job south of the city though, or just in the seaport? It takes me 25-30 mins for my commute and I work @ seaport.

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        11.09.09, 10:22 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]
        • Op- Why would that be a problem? (Serious question, I grew up Catholic in a Catholic town).

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          11.09.09, 11:30 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]
          • Some people (who are not jewish) feel a little left out by the large population of jewish people - kind of like being any minority I guess - and apparently some people (eg real estate agents etc) are not nice to you if you are not part of the tribe. It doesn't bother us (we are atheist) but then again most of our friends don't live in Newton either.

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            11.09.09, 12:30 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
            • interesting. I just think of Newton as classic intense suburb--very competitive schools, very driven parents, a lot of money and a shrinking/disappearing middle/working class. I don't know how the Jewish thing plays into it--it used to be pretty diverse.

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              11.09.09, 04:02 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
    • Milton is lovely and south of the city but close in, although I don't think it's got a commuter rail station.

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      11.05.09, 02:21 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
    • South of boston: Hingham and Cohasset.

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      11.05.09, 02:23 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
    • I learned that you can be miserable in the most wonderful place if you aren't open to the change. If this is a move you have to make then be sure your head is in the game. Good luck!

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      11.05.09, 02:24 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
      • best post of the evening.

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        11.05.09, 07:39 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
      • OP- I'm sure we'll be fine. Yes, I have to move but it will be good for the family. It's what's best for my DH and DD. I'm just overwhelmed by the amount of research we have to do at the moment.

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        11.06.09, 03:05 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]
        • Agree with the above if you want urban/suburban feel go with Newton or Brookline. Beautiful towns and excellent schools, a stone's throw from Boston, great restaurants, hospitals, etc.

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          11.06.09, 05:51 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]
    • Why not downtown? There are schools there, private for the most part though one or two publics ok. Concord, Lexington, Belmont, Arlington...good schools, some of these towns are better than others. Hingham is a terrible commute. I kind of wonder if anyone recommending the South Shore actually lives there and works? Newton is ok, I disagree that the schools are the best in the state, and Newton is so big that the schools are variable. Brookline is appallingly expensive though I would say the schools are the best in the state. The commute in and out of Brookline is not great, especially on public transport though depends where you work. If you mentioned where DH was commuting to might be able to help better. But most of the close lying suburb...

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      11.06.09, 07:57 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]
      • Places to live in Newton: City made up 13 villages--Waban, Chestnut Hill, West Newton Hill but there are other nice areas-->generally below the Pike and above Route 9. Below Route 9 has nice homes but it's a different vibe: way more suburdan, bus is only public transportation. Brookline is more urban. Newton is urban transitioning to suburban. As somebody said to me, if you have 1 kid, Brookline is OK. More than that, live in Newton. Newton schools are generally better than Brookline.

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        11.06.09, 08:46 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]
      • OP- DH will probably be working in downtown (near South Station) for the most part but will also have an office in Quincy which is why I had initially said south.

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        11.06.09, 09:19 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]
        • I live in Boston, DC goes to Boston public schools--it's been an uneven experience but not the nightmare that many make it out to be. It just depends on what kind of culture you're looking for and I'm not getting enough from your post. Where do you live now and what do you like about it? Are you a Brooklyn type or a UES type? And btw, you're right about the MBTA site--you might have better luck if you just Google places you're interested in and then look for the T or commuter rail.

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          11.06.09, 09:43 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]
          • We're on UWS right now. Pretty crunchy for UWS, though. Love being able to walk everywhere. Looking forward to taking my DD to museums, parks, the library. If we can find a town/neighborhood with a few decent not chain restaurants that would be great. I hate the idea of needing two cars but I don't want to limit our search based on what might be irrational fears. We're going to Boston next weekend to look around. Where do you live? I thought the Boston publics were not an option for us but maybe...

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            11.07.09, 07:29 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]
            • You'll get a very broad spectrum of opinions and experiences in the Boston Publics--maybe not too different from NYC. Wide range of quality, lots of suspense, angling, and angst about choosing a school and then getting in (you are guaranteed to get one of your top three choices, allegedly). We live in Jamaica Plain which is more B'lyn'ish--pretty crunchy, very mixed neighborhoods, wonderful "main street" and some really beautiful parks, Jamaica Pond, etc. very diverse and family friendly. Definitely still very urban though, not for everybody. The South End (not to be confused w. Southie, aka South Boston) is beautiful, all brownstones, and would be an easy walk to downtown and just about everywhere, lots of kids, great restaurants and shops...

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              11.09.09, 07:22 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]
              • Awesome. I'm definitely going to take sometime to look at neighborhoods in the city when we go next week. Is it like NYC where they get "worse" as the kids get older? Are you afraid of running out of options once they hit middle school?

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                11.09.09, 07:48 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]
                • no, actually!! Kind of the opposite. Several good options for HS, including Boston Latin School, Boston Latin Academy, and several good charter hs's including Boston Collegiate and Academy of the Pacific Rim. A lot of people send their kids to private for elementary if they don't get their first-choice neighborhood school and then aim to get them into one of these schools for HS.

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                  11.09.09, 09:34 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]
        • if you lived in Boston itself your DH could walk to work. Might be something to consider.

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          11.09.09, 06:39 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]
      • DH will be downtown near South Station 4 days a week and in Quincy one day a week.

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        11.06.09, 09:44 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]
        • sorry for double post... first one didn't show up at first.

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          11.06.09, 09:46 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]
        • ah. Hingham to south station will not be great though possible. You want to be on/near the red line or a commuter going into south station. why not something near Alewife station which is on the red line? that would be concord, lexington, arlington, belmont.

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          11.09.09, 06:39 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]
          • Or Cambridge, which is more crunchy/academic but still pretty urban. You can also walk to south station from the south end but unlike poster above, I would not trust Boston public schools. Also JP is farther away and no T goes there.

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            11.09.09, 10:24 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]
            • Sigh. The Orange Line goes to Jamaica Plain as well as the second busiest bus line in the city and I'm guessing that OP has a car in any case. I think I was pretty straight-forward about the schools, but I'd definitely take Boston publics over Cambridge publics, especially on the HS level.

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              11.09.09, 12:18 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
              • Do you take the orange line around forest hills? I would not go on it past back bay, it is sketchtastic.

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                11.09.09, 12:31 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
                • Not Jamaica Plain mom- wikipedia tells me that the Jackson Square, Stony Brook and Green Street stops are in Jamaica Plain. I thought Forest Hills was Roslindale?

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                  11.09.09, 12:50 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
                  • Roslindale is on the far side of Forest Hills Station and the Arboretum--not on the Orange Line. You really need to take the commuter rail or the bus to get there.

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                    11.09.09, 03:58 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
                • Sheesh--have you been on it since 1977? Not remotely sketch unless you are just truly afraid of all non-white people.

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                  11.09.09, 03:57 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
  • [-]rational moms please talk to me about H1N1: I am all for getting the kids vax but the pedi only has shots with mercury. kids are 6.5 mos and 2. wwyd? thanks.

    38 replies [ Reply | Watch | Options ]
    11.02.09, 06:12 AM [ Flag ]
    • who even has the vac?

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      11.02.09, 06:16 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]
    • i would get vax no matter what. 2 dc's with swine and it is miserable. it is so strong and it is endless.

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      11.02.09, 06:17 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]
      • miserable and endless, but they are not hospitalized or dying, so they are building their immune system naturally, lifetime effect vs short term vaccine effect

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        11.02.09, 06:19 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]
        • NP: but do you want your DC to be one of those who does end up in the hospital? or dies? the vaccines contain about as much mercury as a can of tuna. not great, but not the worst thing that can happen either.

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          11.02.09, 06:24 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]
          • the mercury isnt the issue for me. its the flu vaccine (in general, and this year) doesnt provide long term prevention. some studies even suggest that those who had flu shot just last year more likely to get h1n1 this year.

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            11.02.09, 06:26 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]
            • and, PS, i normally vax on schedule. and I'm a medical professional with over 10 years of experience.

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              11.02.09, 06:27 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]
              • NP: and you would not give dc's flu or H1N1 vac?

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                11.02.09, 06:28 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]
                • nope. not unless the risks outweigh benefits. (ie. have underlying condition, asthma, weakened immune system d/t medications, multiple hospitalizations, prematurity)

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                  11.02.09, 06:29 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]
              • what kind of medical professional and with what experience? b/c some of the things you are saying are medically wrong! are you an immunologist? a virologist? a pediatrician? I could say I'm a medical professional w/ 10 years of experience too but I'd never counsel people on medical issues!

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                11.02.09, 06:53 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]
        • There is no lifetime effect of natural immunity for flu. Doesn't work the same as measles. No matter how your child builds immunity to a flu (vaccine or by getting sick), he/she won't be permanently immune.

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          11.02.09, 06:40 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]
          • you are technically correct, but when the body sees an illness it has seen before, defenses arise much more quickly. you may be ill for a few hours or days instead of many days or weeks. barring another condition, chemotherapy, and old age where immunity decreases.

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            11.02.09, 06:43 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]
            • Well, having had the swine flu this summer (given that it was a "mild" flu and was horrendously awful), I could not see choosing to allow my very young childrens' bodies have to fight off an illness like that. I also cannot see that the benefit of "defenses arising much more quickly" for a flu that we may or may not see again for many years (and where a vaccine is available if it does) is worth taking the chance that one of my children will be one of the small minority of healthy kids who cannot fight this flu, and who end up hospitalized on a respirator, or worse.

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              11.02.09, 06:48 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]
              • personal choice. i made mine, and you made yours.

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                11.02.09, 07:12 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]
                • Yep. Difference is, my personal choice is less risky for my own child a is also a coice that doesn't put others at risk. Personal choice indeed, but some choices are better, more responsible, and more rational than others. Oh but, when your kid is really sick and miserable, make sure to tell him/her that his/her body will more quickly respond in the great swine flu epidemic of 2057--it will make you child feel much better.

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                  11.02.09, 07:24 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]
                  • i do vaccinate, just not for influenza. I think it's the least proven vaccine series out there, next to gardasil, which my DD is not yet old enough to get, so have not decided on yet. current candaian study suggests (though not yet complete) that annual flu shot from last year may increase risk of h1n1 this year. I am by no means saying it is the right choice for everyone. I am also a SAHM, so I will keep my child home if she is known to be ill or exposed, so as not to expose your child.

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                    11.02.09, 07:35 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]
                    • wasn't sure if I was out of room... each choice we as parents make is valid, provided we educate ourselves, even if we come to different conclusions. why are we are parents so anti-other parents?

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                      11.02.09, 07:37 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]
        • Getting flu once does not give lifetime immunity. Different strains come every year. Natural immunity as such is a myth.

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          11.02.09, 07:11 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]
        • you again - ugh go away. It's only immunity for swine flu -nothing else. Why make your kid suffer?

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          11.02.09, 10:42 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]
      • yes, they have the flu. Every flu sucks big time.

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        11.02.09, 06:36 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]
    • this is a tough one; but i would be wary of a vax with mercury for dc so young, if that is all the ped. has.

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      11.02.09, 06:25 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]
    • I say do it. I just made my appointment for my kids, age 23 months and 10 months. I'd rather the vaccine then risk them getting sick.

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      11.02.09, 06:28 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]
    • I'd still do it. Apparently is the equivalent to one can of tuna.

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      11.02.09, 06:37 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]
    • if you're for the shot, take the thimerosol one

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      11.02.09, 06:38 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]
    • Please get your facts straight. There is no mercury in these vaccines. Thimerasol is not the same thing as mercury.

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      11.02.09, 06:44 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]
      • Pro-vaccine mom here. Trace levels of mercury from the manufacturing process. Completely benign. Gave it to my kids.

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        11.02.09, 06:49 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]
      • Thimerosol is a mercury compound, albeit with less mercury than a can of tunafish. I don't have a dog in this race, but you should be accurate. Thimerosol is a preservative with mercury in it. There are single dose vaccines that are thimerosol free, and the nasal mist doesn't have it.

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        11.02.09, 07:05 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]
        • (C9H9HgNaO2S) - meaning carbon, hydrogen, mercury, sodium, oxygen and sulfer are part of the compound.

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          11.02.09, 07:10 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]
    • OP: thanks. sorry about the debate fodder. I really hate that I did that. I am most likely keeping our appts. in my heart of hearts, as they say (and from what all the medical professionals say), I do not believe there is a risk. I'd prefer the thimerisol-free, but it's not available here now. thanks again.

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      11.02.09, 07:32 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]
    • I thought the vaccine hasn't been released yet for kids under age 2. That's what our ped told us yesterday (we gave it to 5yr old).

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      11.02.09, 07:57 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]
    • my 6mo and 2.5 yo have had the first round of H1N1--they both get brochiolitis and I didn't want to risk it--the mercury isn't an issue because it isn't combined with other shots-so it is fine--maybe when they are older and stronger I won't vaccinate because i believe in germs and exposure--but not this year and not when they are under 5

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      11.02.09, 08:17 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]
      • Hey, quick question -- did the doctor give any guidance about spacing between seasonal flu and h1n1. my kids had the booster for seasonal last week and have an appt for h1n1 (first round) next monday -- does that sound ok to you? If you know?

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        11.02.09, 08:28 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]
        • they got seasonal flu the same day--the 2.5yo was fine--i think the baby was a little off the next day--cranky and his poops were terrible--the ped did the same for his kids--and my friend is a pediatric ER doc--he said get whatever flu shots are available for the kids

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          11.02.09, 08:36 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]
        • op: dd will be getting second flu shot and first H1N1 same day.

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          11.02.09, 10:20 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]
          • NP my ds (9 mos) got both flu shots on the same day, per suggestion of the ped. BTW she has an autistic child and sees no connection btwn vaccinations and autism at all, and is really dismayed by the misinformation regarding vaccines.

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            11.02.09, 10:46 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]
    • Get the shots! YOUR CHILDREN ARE AT RISK, not just the kids with a medical history or immune difficiency. H1N1 can severely effect any child healthy or not. I do not have a medical degree, I am just a parent who has a wonderful pediatrician who takes the time to speak to me and answer my questions. Good Luck.

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      11.02.09, 10:45 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]
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