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Posted September 13, 2007(191 replies)
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I think smoking should be banned in coops and condos, i.e., non single family houses. You can smell the smoke that seeps out of apts and it's a fire hazard. Wish NYC could pass a law about it. Anyone agree?
93 replies [ Reply | Watch | MoreITTTTA!!! Am in a sticky situation: Our downstairs neighbors have complained about our 4.5 yr old running around. Plus, in the last few weeks our 1.5 yr old has started to run or whatever you call her lurching around. So, we're always apologetic to them. Meanwhile, the wife in the couple is a chainsmoker, and artist, and her studio is directly below my kids' bedroom! Smoke comes through the floorboards, it smells stale. And now I read in the Science Times that this so called thirdhand smoke may be deadly. A scientist is starting a research project on it right now. He hypothesizes the smoke leaves residue on walls, floors, curtains, etc that can't ever be cleaned off and may eventually get into our lungs and throughout our bodies.
[ Reply | More ]hate to say it, but wall to wall carpet could be a buffer from smoke. Of course, it would also absorb everything.
[ Reply | More ]The worst offender in our building is the super and his apt is on the lobby floor near the elevators. All the smoke from his apt. (it's a lot) seeps out from his front door and into the lobby and for anyone to breathe in and smell who is using the elevator, i.e., 95%+ of the residents. It's a coop/condo.
[ Reply | More ]There was recently a lawsuit where the plaintiff was in a similar situation, in NYC, and won! I think this is a huge step in the right direction.
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ITA. A neighbor smokes and a fire broke out a few months back. Hallways filled with smoke. 911 called. Firefighters couldn't find the source of the fire, but said that someone likely set something on fire and brought it into hallway to extinguish. This particular neighbor didn't answer when firefighters knocked--but he was home.
[ Reply | More ]I know what you saying - I can sometimes smell smoke which comes through the bathroom vent. Annoying. But don't think this should be a law. Where would it stop - no candles allowed, no smelly cooking, no loud sex...
[ Reply | More ]We were told to put out the candle we had in Halloween pumpkin that we put outside our front door (for trick-or-treaters). Said it was safety hazard. I said fine.
[ Reply | More ]Its not just that smoking is a fire hazard and it stinks, but it is a health hazard for everyone who lives in the building. If you smoke indoors, the smoke gets into EVERYTHING. It will seep through any crack, through your floorboards.... it is toxic, and a serious health hazard, especially when children with athsma are involved. Second hand smoke can cause asthma, can also trigger an asthma attack. In my world, the indoor smokers who caused these problems for children KNOWING they were polluting a building where children lived should be held liable for medical bills and damages, and whatever costs the other tenants incur to smoke-proof their homes to protect themselves.
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I disagree, people have the right to do whatever they want in the privacy of their own homes, I do not smoke, I dislike everything about it but I also respects other's rights to do it. What are you going to ban next?
[ Reply | More ]Problem with smoking is it doesn't stay inside your home, it invades other homes, and it is a real fire hazard that jeopardizes safety of not only smoker's home but all their neighbors. This one is NOT a "slippery slope."
[ Reply | More ]So is the strong smell of Curry and fish cooking. Maybe we can ban that while we're at it.
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missing really big point here. It's not illegal. The slippery slope the OR was talking about is that if you make something that is not illegal "banned" in a private home because others find it offensive it sets a precedent. What if I'm allergic to fish? Can I ban you from cooking fish because it is dangerous for me to smell the fumes from cooking it?
[ Reply | More ]so how could NYC ban smoking in restaurants and other public places and not ban fish?
[ Reply | More ]I don't know, but I'm more concerned about what they tell me I can and cannot do in my home.
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no, actually you aren't because a restaurant is NEVER going to be in the same category as a restaurant no matter how much you argue. For example, I can have sex with my dh on my dining table, but not on a table in a restaurant. I can even offend all my neighbors with loud kinky sex while cooking fish, burning candles & smoking on my table but you can't ban me from doing it. See?
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np: technically, a condo and certainly a co-op are not private homes. there are lots of things that are banned that are not illegal - for example, playing musical instruments before or after certain hours, having work done in your apt on certain days or during certain hours, etc. Not to mention requirements such as carpeting a certain amount of your floor, etc. Smoke is not just offensive it poses a health threat - to everyone, but esp to those w asthma, allergies, etc.
[ Reply | More ]yes, but you agree to the rules of the co-op when you buy or rent there. If the rules are not to your liking you move somewhere else. I agree if you move into a smoke-free building and know that going in that you should be banned from smoking. If not, not. (non-smoker here)
[ Reply | More ]you're kidding? co-ops change their rules ALL the time. i mean they have a shareholder vote, but they DO change the rules. bldgs bcm pet free all the time - often grandfathering in existing pets. some rules are added in repsonse to problems. some are financially prudent or necessary. i know a high end co-op that imposes a $100/day penalty if renovations/construction takes more than 60 days and they added that in the past decade in response to someone whose renovation took 2 years!
[ Reply | More ]of course they do but they have a vote and it becomes policy. I think you'd have a hard time enforcing a smoke ban retroactively however, even if the majority voted, because it isn't illegal and the owner didn't agree to it when he bought & he could fight it in court and have a good case. I don't think it's a bad idea for new buildings to be smoke-free, although I still think they'd have a hard time enforcing it if a resident really wanted to smoke.
[ Reply | More ]np: i think that if the building follows proper procedure to get no smoking added to the list of rules, it would go through if the shareholders wanted it. if you have a die-hard smoker in the building that was causing a tremendous problem, you'd have to take him to court and show the nuisance and health issues. but the ban WOULD prevent new tenants from smoking.
[ Reply | More ]ok, excellent, a real lawyer. But how exactly would they enforce it? They could fine him & he could just not pay it. If the bldg took him to court he'd show up and I bet even without a lawyer he could just say, this is my apartment and I'm not doing anything illegal. They made this ban after I'd already bought and I don't agree with it.
[ Reply | More ]i don't agree w my bldgs new flip tax, but it was passed w proper procedures and it will hold up in court. a nuisance is in violation of your lease - whether you are a nuisance bc you play the drums at 3am or the stereo at volume 10 all day long or bc you never clean your home and the roaches are now headed over to the neighbors. getting a tenant evicted as a nuisance is hard, but NOT impossible. smoking is not an inalienable right.
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You can say the same things about cooking. Smells (good and bad) don't stay in your home and cooking fires are also real hazards. Are you ready to ban cooking from Co-ops and Condos too?
[ Reply | More ]I think both the second hand smoke and the fire hazard are real and different from cooking smells, etc. There are laws - for ex., I can't do bbq/grilling on my terrace.
[ Reply | More ]That's because people are idiots and leave their BBQs unattended. It doesn't have anything to do with smells or smoke.
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that's what I meant. They leave their BBQs unattended to go answer the phone & start fires. It doesn't have anything to do with smoke or smell.
[ Reply | More ]np: that's the point, smoking is also a fire hazard as people fall asleep w a lit cigarette or don't put it out well enough.
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why? bc i would love to be able to grill on my terrace and could care less about candles? the point is, when you're conscientious, it's a PITA to have to follow rules for those who are not. my father smoked for years (2 packs a day) and my mother was so careful to make sure windows were opened when he smoked, that he never smoked in bed, that the apt was aired out every single day, that the drapes were cleaned regularly, etc. that the neighbors never even knew there was a smoker there.
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I'm with you in that it's disgusting but since it's still America and all, I'm not for banning what you do in your home while it's still legal. I'd love to just make smoking illegal period!
[ Reply | More ]I also wish smoking were illegal. But short of that, I should where it is banned should be extended to other places (like multi-family housing) where it interferes with the health and well-being of others. Same logic NYC used to ban in restaurants, outside of office buildings, etc.
[ Reply | More ]The difference is public space vs private space. You CANNOT dictate what people do in their private home unless it is illegal. Period. I'm not a lawyer and I have never smoked a day in my life but I'm an American & personal freedoms are important.
[ Reply | More ]I too believe in personal freedoms, but you have to recognize that a free standing single family home, which is what most of America lives in, is not the same as a condo in a large building that you own. In a condo, like an apartment, your personal freedoms can affect other people. So, I think for people who choose to share walls with other families should have to face restriction on their personal freedoms in order to protect their neighbors. If they dont like it, they can move into a real house.
[ Reply | More ]condos, co-ops and rental apt bldgs dictate a lot of what people can and can't do in their own units.
[ Reply | More ]or: I just had this argument above. you guys are exhausting with your "beliefs." Go ahead and believe, go ahead and try to make a movement to ban smoking in private homes. It's not going to happen. I live in a NYC shared dwelling too. I hate smoking. But I don't take the loss of personal freedoms as lightly as you do just because it annoys me.
[ Reply | More ]Its not about personal freedoms its about public health. I smoke weed in my house, and it doesnt affect anyone. But if I was your downstairs neighbor and my pot smoke was coming into your house, you may not be tooting the same horn about personal liberties. And just to let you know, me smoking pot is not illegal I have a medical Rx.
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it is not currently banned but there is a NYC case that is law that the coop board MUST provide you with a habitable apartment because you are a leasee. It ruled that second hand smoke was inhabitable in this apartment and shareholder could sue the board. This caused the board to get serious with the other shareholder requiring sealing the vents, etc. We had a similar issue in our building and required a smoke eater in the offending apartment or we would have cancelled the proprietary lease. If this is a problem, bring it to the attention of the board.
[ Reply | More ]How about just smoke free coops/rentals/condos? There are dog free, etc buildings in existence, right? I hate smoke/smoking but think if people want to give themselves emphasema, lung cancer etc. they should be able to do it in their own homes without sharing it with others.
[ Reply | More ]That's the problem with smoking - a smoker "shares" his smoke with you whether you want it or not. AND it's a fire hazard.
[ Reply | More ]That is why new buildings - or even existing ones from this point on if there is enough interest, should market their apartments as "smoke free" and ban smoking and new tenats/shareholders from smoking. I'm not sure it can be done retroactively. From experience I know boards/management are very reluctant to try to deal with the issue. Newer buildings with thin walls are the worst. In my old 1960's coop I could tell when my neighbor awoke becasue I could smell their first cigarette that they had before even getting out of bed in the am throgh the air duct. Our mgmt compnay said there was nothing they could do.
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a dh whose whole family is sensitive to cigarette smoke, and lives in a rental building with some smoking neighbors. I have previously broached this subject with our city councilwomen on UES (Lappin), whose first inclination was to be sympathetic, but reluctant to do anything in anyone's homes-similar to what others here have posted. In contrast, state assemblyman Kellner- who is very big into disability/health issues- was much more receptive, but still did not do anything. However, the more people who approach them, the more action they might actually take. I cited to them the various cities in Calif. that have either banned or limited smoking in apts. I believe the Calif. statewide ban (sponsored by landlords, who generally HATE smokers) was approved by one part of legislature, but tied up in committee or something. This ALMOST tipped the balance. The other hurdle in NY rental apts. is that so many renters are rent-control or rent-stabilize, and the standard contracts for those arrangements do not prohibit smoking, so landlords are afraid to try to alter such contracts. Ultimately, because our rental building had some vacancies, the landlord simply allowed us to "switch" apartments. If we had been in a condo or co-op, not so easy.
[ Reply | More ]I live in CA, and I own a few smoke-free buildings. I sponsored that bill. The buildings are mine, plus I rent to families. I actually had a tenant fight an eviction because they lied about being a smoker and then were littering cigarette butts around the building. They cited the "personal freedoms" arguement and the judge said "NOT in a building you dont own" so it can be done but you have to be firm and let everyone know from the start. There is a no smoking clause in my lease. Smoking is NOT allowed on the property at any time. Everyone knew this when they moved in but I was lucky because there were no smokers living there when I bought the property.
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I recently had some success forcing a neighbor to purchase an air purifier. I went through the management company and was relentless about getting them to take action. I have a son with reactive airway and the whole thing just made me uncomfortable. I think what really got them to get moving was that I referenced the case in NYC mentioned above where the plaintiff won a lawsuit. I also purchased an expensive humidifier that is on its way...
[ Reply | More ]We rent in a private house. Recently the landlord finished the basement and rented it to a smoker. Of course the smoke filtered up through the floor and into our apt. We have a 2.5 y/o and I am pregnant. I flipped out and told the guy that I couldn't stand breathing in the second-hand smoke. He apologized and actually began smoking outside (in January)! Never in a million years did I expect that! It still amazes me...
[ Reply | More ]Am I the only one who finds it weird that OP considers living in coop, condo, or single-family house to exhaust all possibilities? Are there really no renters on this board?
[ Reply | More ]I am OP. I was referring to multi-family residences, and yes, should have said apartment buildings and multi-family homes. But I think everyone got the point (clearly they did from all the posts on this topic), and you are just being nasty and critical for no productive reason. This comment adds nothing to the discussion.
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Are you crazy! I am a non smoker and I hate smoking and the damage is causes, but I would never impose on another adult and forbid them to slowly kill themselves in the privacy of their own homes. I live in a coop and I cannot smell my neighbours bad habits. I know several are smokers. They do not smoke in hallways, elevators or lobby. Their home is a private place and lifestyle censorship does not belong there.
[ Reply | More ]ITTA. My ds has asthma and we live next door to someone who smokes like a chimney. His room smells terrible because unfortunately it is closest to her apartment. I truly believe that his asthma got worse (or even started to begin with) because of 2nd hand exposure to this smoke, which he's had to endure since birth.
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