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Posted September 13, 2007(191 replies)
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I can't get over the email that NEST's general fund participation rate is less than 15%. Since this is anonymous, if you haven't given, can you say why? Because I'm kind of feeling like a sucker.
195 replies [ Reply | Watch | MoreI agree, it's awful. We gave a lot so far. My only thought is that -- it's still early in the year. Maybe people will give more. But it's such a shame. They want the great education for their kids, but don't feel like spending a dime to support it.
[ Reply | More ]I don't have a dc at NEST (or any school yet). I think you need to remember the economy is bad and a lot of people are hurting. I'm getting quite upset with the number of charities that are calling asking for donations and when I say I can't help right now and before I can hang up start to tell me how I'm depriving others. My financial situation isn't good and I can't help. I shouldn't be made to explain this.
[ Reply | More ]how can you compare the police athletic league with your dc's school?? and i know for a fact there are plenty of comfortable families at nest. they just choose not to contribute because they can't be bothered. free is free as far as they are concerned.
[ Reply | More ]np: We are not at NEST but I do fundraising at our school and there is very little correlation between people's financial situation and their willingness to give. If willing to give, the wealthier people write big checks while the not so well off may only give $20, but they still give. And plenty of wealthy people don't give at all because it does not make it onto their priority list.
[ Reply | More ]ditto and ditto. we are lucky to be at a school where everyone gives what they can. admittedly participation is down this year from last but it is way beyond 15%! i'd be so ashamed to attend a school like that!
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df told me she wasn't happy with the expenditures of the PTA at our school. they are not freeloaders and have given a lot in the past. she says she is frustrated by the way the money is managed and is waiting to see if she wants to invest further. At first, I was appalled, but then I saw her point. PTA is charged with doing right by the school. If she doesnt feel they are doing a good job at this, maybe she should hold back until things get better.
[ Reply | More ]Or maybe she should get involved and run for PTA position, or get on the SLT and actually influence things. But that may be more work than she is up for.
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It is a common issue at every school. We have a loud contingent of people who know better and would do a much better job. Unfortunately, when most of the pTA turned over and we were desperately looking for new blood to fill the spots, they were too busy to consider it. Complaining is much easier.
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I wonder if people just don't care if the extras get cut? Maybe they think that all of the afterschool clubs and stuff should be pay-by-use, with some funds available for financial aid? Maybe they think the PTA has too much money saved up? Maybe they're just too lazy to sign in to the school hub and then click on an attachment, so they don't even get the requests? I wish there were a place to explore this without fingerpointing and nasty back and forth, because I find it baffling.
[ Reply | More ]nest has always been like this. it has nothing to do with the current economic climate.
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np: People need to chill the f*ck out. We're at NEST and haven't given yet this year because we like to make our charitable donations in December. That's why we haven't given yet.
[ Reply | More ]I'm at another school, but when my dc first started, I didn't understand that the annual fund was for everyone to participate in. I thought it was only for people with money and just ignored the mailings. I think educating people is part of fund raising.
[ Reply | More ]Yes but how to educate those who do not participate in giving to their kids' schools? I spend most of my time fundraising for a special needs school my dc attends, and honestly lots of parents seem really thick about it. The school doesn't want to "pressure" anyone, but dh and I feel like we are carrying quite a few people who seem like they could give/help out more than they do. Passive didn't work, now I'm aggressive and it's not making me well-liked.
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Ditto that. The thing is that many families can't give and they are not proud about it. Now you call them up and apply your pressure tactics and make them admit to something they don't want you to know (that they are broke)?
[ Reply | More ]It's a little tough when our family cuts back on new cars, clothes and vacations...then to watch the families who don't give, drive up to the school in Audis, and go on about their trips to the Bahamas, carry Chanel bags, etc. Seems like they've figured out they can get away w/o giving, just leave it to me - the sucker-mom. Ouch!
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No dear friend. Mot talking out my ass. Yes,giving is anon, but when you ARE the school's primary fundraiser, it means you KNOW who is buying tickets to events, who is contributing to auctions, who is not attending an event but making a contribution, who is attending an event and making an effort to bring in 10 new supporters to the event as well, you know who's taking the extra 5mins to fill out the corp matching grant. You KNOW who's called you and says "we don't have much $$ but we'll come to the venue the day of the event and do all the set up, we'll pick up all the flowers to save on delivery charges, we'll stamp the invitations, etc. Plus, you see at these parent meetings who signs up for helping on the clipboards that get passed around & who just hands them to the next parent w/o looking. So no, I'm no talking out my ass. But be assured; I don't share this info w other parents. Have a nice day.
[ Reply | More ]But you present that you know what people's current financial position is, too. So unless you do all the fund raising AND you are the certified financial planner for these people I still say how would you know? Especially in the current situation so many of us find ourselves in.
[ Reply | More ]My df, it does NOT take a cfa to watch several families rent the summer houses, take the vacations, drive the luxury autos, have that next baby, renovate that co-op or wear the designer threads to see that there is SOME disposable income not going to their kids' schools. When THOSE families don't give, I can't help but think that they are thick or selfish. Have a nice evening.
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np. the families who don't give at our school don't try to hide it. designer clothes, trust funds, fancy vacations--but then cry poverty when they're asked to pay $60 for a ticket to the annual auction.
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as i posted but you obviously missed, they don't try to hide it. they brag that they don't give.
[ Reply | More ]I assumed that for them, like us, there is a difference between not giving for an auction and not giving for the annual fund. Money was tight last year and we did not do the NEST auction and if people were so rude as to ask, I would have told them that. But that does not mean I didn't give to the annual fund. I find giving to something like a fund raising dinner, etc is a really poor way to contribute. It costs me hundreds of dollars so the group/school can get a few bucks.
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because they say so. "gosh, we really can't afford the $50 tickets to the auction this year" [fumbling in brand-new chloe bag for gucci sunglasses and envelope of photos]. "did i show your our vacation shots from parrot cay? i almost killed steve when i found out he booked the villa, but honestly the $1k a night difference bought you so much more. oh, wait. here's my driver. gotta run!"
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really? our PTA is very clear that the goal is 100 percent participation and they don't care how much you pledge. i thought that was common.
[ Reply | More ]NEST fundraising is done poorly imo. The emails are great and they work hard but they make no phone calls. You need to explain the annual fund to people otherwise the letters and emails are worthless to those who don't understand. I am a NEST family. I LOVE the school and think they do an amazing job. This is the only area that I think needs help.
[ Reply | More ]ITA. On the one hand, I appreciate that they don't push, push, push. On the other hand, I'm irritated that I'm one of 15% that donated (and it isn't easy for us), and very likely won't contribute more this year. Maybe they should just push hard for $150 per family, spend on the bare bones stuff (Singapore math, for ex.) and have individual classes/grades/schools fundraise for specific items as needed.
[ Reply | More ]Phone calls? You have to be kidding. People would have a huge fit if school started calling them at night asking to give. If parents can't be bothered to read letters there is nothing you can do. I can understand ignoring an email but if someone sends letter to you from school you ought to bother to read it.
[ Reply | More ]Oh, please. If our school/PTA/whatever were to start calling up people who haven't given, yet, I will stop giving money. Last year a few parents thought it was a good idea to remind the rest of the class that we have to give and that they were disappointed at the progress. It did not not come across as well-meant.
[ Reply | More ]Well then they need to work on the script. At a school like NEST, where people are going out of their way to send their kids because of PTA supported things like Singapore Math and chess, to not participate is not ok. You don't have to give a lot but you should give.
[ Reply | More ]I wonder how may families were okay with getting rid of Singapore math if the PTA can't afford it anymore. At our school the majority of PTA funds go toward TAs in the classrooms. Personally, I would not miss them if we can't afford them anymore. It wasn't a high priority for ranking LL that high. If the PTA can't raise enough funds (for whatever reasons) the TAs have to be slimmed down. Big deal.
[ Reply | More ]I think that getting rid of Singapore Math would be universally booed. Besides that, I don't think there would be great uproar from the parent body to lose most of the things that the PTA currently subsidizes, but it would definitely have an effect on the quality of the school (teacher appreciation breakfast/luncheons, afterschool clubs, paying teachers to teach afterschool activities, extra books for the classrooms, etc.)
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People either don't want to give for a philosophical reason, or because they prefer to give to other charities, or they don't have the funds. If you don't want to give you say no. If you don't have the funds its a lot less humiliating to say no than it is to say you can give $1.
[ Reply | More ]it's anonymous. no one knows that you gave $1 except one or two people in the pta office who would be thrilled to have you give that because you must prove big participation in order to get grants and other funding.
[ Reply | More ]ah, it may be anonymous but ask around. Do you really think it is perceived as anonymous? It is much more "face saving" to ignore and pretend it's been falling through the cracks and you will get to it eventually than giving one single Dollar.
[ Reply | More ]as someone who works closely with the heads of the pta i can say in all honesty that it really, truly is anonymous at our school and it really is not about the amount. families know that if they give a dollar it is 100 times better than giving nothing because it counts towards total participation. also, everyone who donates gets a handwritten note thanking them effusively whether they give $1 or $10,000.
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Fund raising at schools is a wholly American concept. Most places have fund raising for special events, maybe class trips and things like that. Not music class, art class etc. Maybe that plays into it. What is the demographic of a NEST student? BTW I don't have a DC in NEST (or any other school).
[ Reply | More ]I am not at NEST but at LL and we have not given to the general fund, yet. We volunteer in many other ways, though, and think enough is enough. We have plenty of high rollers at LL that will make up for the others.
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You don't understand the meaning of freeloader. Go ahead and educate yourself a bit.
[ Reply | More ]np. ideally you would volunteer and give $$, even if only one dollar. the fact that you refer to high-rollers making up for the others and use the phrase "enough as enough" does tend to make you look like you have the wrong attitude even if you do volunteer.
[ Reply | More ]I don't have the money but I have the time. DH and I sign up for so much volunteering that it makes up for our lacking monetary contribution. Hardly freeloading.
[ Reply | More ]i'm sure you have $1 and if you do you should give it. it matters when it comes to obtaining funding. also, you should be careful with your language. calling people who give money "high rollers" sound snotty, as does responding to appeals for $$ from the school with "enough is enough."
[ Reply | More ]You are too hung up on how I call certain things. The matter of fact is that my time I give to the school is worth something in my eyes. And that one dollar? That goes into the family emergency fund. Medical bills need to be paid, food needs to get on the table, etc. etc. The whole "it's just a dollar" is very common but entirely flawed argument.
[ Reply | More ]right. how much are you paying your isp and con ed to sit here and tell me you don't have a buck to spend on your dc's education, a dollar that could reap five or ten or one hundred in additional funding? please. you're a liar and you're a selfish one at that. signed, "high-roller" mom whose hhi may not be great but who finds a way to give whatever time and money she can so someone like you can coast.
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We give each year. I thought it was interesting how carefully that Lower School letter was worded. They make it sound like Lower School is not paying its way. Unless there was a seachange in behavior this last year, that is not the case.
[ Reply | More ]I agree. I think it is in response to comments here and on the forums saying that the lower school is subsidizing all three schools. Anyone not up to date on things would assume by that letter that the middle and upper are subsidizing the lower, rather than what I assume is the truth - that the PTA had leftover funds from the year before and used those to supplement what came in last year.
[ Reply | More ]I think it is something else. They bring in a lot of money at events and other things. So the total = LS annual fund + MS annual fund + US annual fund + events (Halloween, Auction, game nights, etc.) + other fund raisers (Barnes & Noble, at school things, etc) So, yes the total LS expenditure last year was greater than LS annual fund contributions. So too were the MS and the US, I'll bet. GRANTED, none of this means that 15% is ok.
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Why doesn't the PTA just announce where the money is coming from, e.g. LS $X, MS $Y, US $Z so that there's more transparency? I'm actually curious to know how much the US parents are contributing....
[ Reply | More ]I think it is a couple of reasons. All that reporting is/would be done by volunteer parents who are not keeping those kinds of records. It is not going to help fund raising and (to be honest) it would probably hurt it. The annual appeal is only a fraction of the fund raising. Segmenting the rest so this could even be reported would be a huge pain in the a$$.
[ Reply | More ]np: I have no doubt the people in charge of annual fund have a spreadsheet where they can easily pull the contributions not only LS, MS and US, but also by grade and class. This is not information that should be shared publicly as there is no point in making anyone feel bad but at our school we certainly use the info to target our fundraising. Hopefully NEST PTA does it as well.
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School/PTA needs to improve communication -what is the money used for (details not generalities) , what is the vision - do they want smart boards, projectors why one over the other - never hear this kid of communication - I suppose I can quit my job and go to the morning meetings but then school still will not get money.
[ Reply | More ]In a situation like this, its always "rational" for you to contribute nothing and "free ride" on others. But you give because its the right thing to do. In my book, that doesn't make you a sucker. And the 15% means that 1-2 families out of 10 give money when they are not required to do so. In a way, that's pretty impressive.
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but $10 is nothing. in a school of 800, that would be $8,000. big deal. everyone knows that giving a dollar would be silly and amount to nothing.
[ Reply | More ]The point, which has been emphasized over and over again in the letters that NEST mails home, is that the % of participation in the drive is very important in terms of raising money from outside sources, like private and community foundations. No foundation is going to support an organization that clearly has no support from its own constituencies.
[ Reply | More ]as has been pointed out before, it's not the $8k (which, btw, practically pays for a copier lease at our school so is hardly small potatoes). it's the fact that every family participates. corporate donors look at this when they decide whether or not to underwrite something like, say, taste of tribeca.
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I think there's a huge problem with the messages getting crossed. The PTA sends notes and email to buy calendars, pies, donate pennies, buy books for class, buy books for the kids, use a code at Amazon, use another at Barnes and Noble, another at Sallie Foster wrapping paper, donate for the bake sale, bring a dish to sell at Halloween, bring a dish for international night. The teachers ask for their wish lists; tissues to printer cartridges. By the time you wade through all of that, you might forgive someone for thinking they've already done their part and "given" to the school however they can. Instead of holding hokey contests for an ice cream social, the PTA should be clearer and stay on message and say 100% PARENTAL PARTICIPATION -- even $10 -- means a LOT to foundations. So please do it. In fact, maybe they want to work on such a letter before the end of 2009. But it might get lost in the requests to sell, donate or buy wreaths.
[ Reply | More ]I agree with this - also as I sit realizing I have not sent in the form and have no idea where my checkbook is as I haven't used one in years - why not add online donations - I would much prefer to do that; I'm not familiar with charities but there must be some institution that will clear the money at a discounted rate for not for profits - On second thought - I'll look into this and send in my suggestion.
[ Reply | More ]Yes, and as stupid as this sounds, I think the fact that parents get an email that then links to the website that then requires a password and then requires navigating to a message that finally requires a document download means that a large majority of families aren't even bothering to read the message or the attachments.
[ Reply | More ]NP: I also don't get that School Hub is touted as the place to go there is so little info on it - go to the general fund page and there is a boilerplate message about school funds being cut - that looks like it is 8 months old, why not include an updated message as to what the funds are used for and a link to the PTA financials - there is still room available on the internet.
[ Reply | More ]OMG, I totally agree with you. How are is it to copy and paste the message into the email? How stupid are these people anyway? I'm on my iphone, the connection is slow, does she really think I want to click through the school hub website, enter my username and password, open a pdf document to read that thing? I often wonder if these people use common sense!
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I agree with that. Slim down the number of fundraisers and you get a much better participation at the annual fund.
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The point should be got across though that the individual donation amounts will no be published, and even $5 counts, and that the most important thing is that everyone contributes something, and not to be embarrassed if it is a very small contribution.
[ Reply | More ]I'm with you on this - still I am baffled that 1/3rd of the school did not return the school lunch form as of last newsletter - I mean that is free and you just stick it in your child's bag that one is just baffling.
[ Reply | More ]How about that only 40% of the teachers bothered to return the DOE progress report questionnaire? Equally baffling to me. The teachers KNOW how important those are and they still don't take 5 min to fill it out. Love the school, but some things make me feel like I"m in the Twilight Zon
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This is so surprising to me. We are new to Nest this year, with a child in Kindergarten. I actually thought everyone else was giving much more than we are because we are (I'm sure) on the poor side of the demographics represented at the school. But now I feel pretty good about my contribution. I gave all that I could and give every month. It's not a lot but it's something.
[ Reply | More ]We're at NEST and would LOVE to donate, but we're spending $3000 on a private bus that our kid's classmates in Manhattan get for free. The DOE sucks.
[ Reply | More ]You are getting a top quality education at an accelerated level with amazing teachers and an enviable physical plant (compared to most publics) at a K-12...FOR FREE. You sound like the ultimate ingrate.
[ Reply | More ]This is ridiculous. Yes, it's free. Education is supposed to be free. It shouldn't be a big deal that it is. On the other hand, you are paying through your taxes for it.
[ Reply | More ]If you're spending $3000 on a private bus (when you could get a free student metrocard from the school) you certainly have $100 to donate to the general fund. Another bullsh%t response.
[ Reply | More ]NP - I actually get the parents pain on this one - the fact that you manage to find money to make the school possible for your child is used against you as an example why you are rich. Subways both ways for a 5 year old not realistic. We are in the same boat; we do all the other fundraisers throw in a token amount to this one and let them count us as a contributor for grants.
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Personally I feel bombarded with Nest donation requests. One day it's the general fund, another day it's for pies, books, teacher gifts, yearbook ads, etc. I would rather just receive one donation request and never be asked again. I know this is not going to happen, so I donate to whichever I feel is the most necessary. I do donate to the general fund, and would give even more if it were item specific, e.g., air conditioners, copiers, etc.
[ Reply | More ]It definitely is confusing. I am the poster above who was so surprised to hear it's only 15%. One of the reasons I gave to the general fund was because I figured it would be a mainstay that I gave every month and I wouldn't have to keep up with all the dribs and drabs of pies and books etc. but the thing is that what really matters is we all give what we can. It is important to contribute to what you want in the way that you want, in my opinion. Maybe we wouldn't get all these pie requests etc. if more people gave to the general fund... I think they should consider being very clear that they want people to give whatever they can and that it is anonymous and that even if everyone just gave $20 or $50 for the whole year it would be better than having this 15% BS.
[ Reply | More ]NP, and I have to say that I don't really feel bombarded by requests. I'm trying to think of them all, and there's a distinction between requests that ask you to keep a simple link in mind when you're doing your regular shopping - AMazon, B&N code, search function, book fair; community-building events with minimal charges - Fright Night, Game Night, etc; and the big ticket fundraisers - General Fund and auction. The other costs are really class-based and are up to each class to determine if it's worth it (water in classroom, teacher gift, etc.) Maybe it's a lack of organization, but I can also imagine the frustration that the PTA heads feel trying to get this info out to the parents of a student body of 1500...when PTA attendance hovers around 20.
[ Reply | More ]nnp: I rarely go to PTA meetings but I read the agenda and newsletters and I think I have a sense of where the money is going and all that. For the most part I think they do a good job with the resources. (Maybe a little too much on US considering how little it raises.) We gave a lot more in past years but my youngest is at our local school for pre-K this year and while I love NEST I think my zoned school's PTA really needs more help. So, while I participate and give a nominal amount to the Gen Fund, most of my giving this year will be to PS.
[ Reply | More ]nnnnp: The budget should be available at each PTA meeting, showing exactly what is planned and how much has been raised/spent to date.
[ Reply | More ]that would be nice - but if you mention it at a meeting you know of course they will ask you to do it...
[ Reply | More ]nnp (again): But the expenditures (and I think the whole budget) are on line. Why should anyone have to print it out?
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I agree and hope the PTA president is reading this. For what it's worth, I think the PTA needs to focus on the annual fund and get rid of some of the other fundraisers (I'd suggest the bake sales and Thanksgiving dessert thing -- hasn't the PTA ever heard that there's an epidemic of childhood obesity in this country??). There are too many requests for money. The fundraising is like death by a thousand cuts at the moment.
[ Reply | More ]we're not at nest, but at our school they are pitched as options not requests and i think that's a good thing. if i don't want to buy a pie or gift wrap, i can go to a parents' night out, get my hair cut at a tony salon or schedule a family portrait session with all the proceeds going to the school. i don't begrudge the school their creativity in soliciting funds. in fact, i welcome it.
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I have one idea - and would be interested to hear if other schools do something like this. What if each class had one class parent and one PTA liaison-type parent? The class parent would be in charge of the usual stuff - field trips, arranging for class specific fundraising (teacher gifts, water coolers.) The PTA liaison would be responsible for reaching the parents within the class about fundraising opportunities, specific volunteer jobs, status of the general fund and why it's impt to contribute, etc. I think it would be much more effective if there was a face/name attached to these appeals and someone approachable to ask follow up questions about allocations, what the general fund is, etc. And hopefully it would help the PTA as well, as they wouldn't be responsible for ALL of this stuff as they currently are.
[ Reply | More ]This is way too big of a job with no upside and tons of downside that I can't imagine people actually signing up to do this. We have class reps to get volunteers for events (usually split between two people as there are several events and it is rather time consuming), someone soliciting auction donations from the parents in class and promoting auction in general. Class parents also communicate about annual fund and we have talked about having a rep just for that, but some classes have few active parents and really, all these are pretty big jobs, I don't see how would you combine it all in one job and get it actually staffed for all or even most classes.
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Maybe people are waiting for the Gala and Auction when you can donate but also pick up some great items as well. Last year we gave a lot very early on only to subsequently have a bad year at the school. Also although the kids teachers are great the administation is quite cold. Jodi Hyde would walk through the halls and just stare straight through most of the parents. It was all really off putting giving your hard earned money to a school that ensures parents are generally kept at arms length. This year we decided to hold of and see how things go. We will probably donate soon.
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