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What schools should we apply to with erb of 96 overall (92 performance/99 verbal).
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horace mann's finances are in the crapper - they took pretty much any transfer kid who applied this year (poaching from and pissing off all the manhattan private school administrations in the process...and greatly increasing class size) - so don't kid yourself - this is one "top tier" where perception and reality are dramatically different
[ Reply | Options ]They'll still send 35-40% of their 175 seniors to Ivies year after year. Considering how "easy" it is to get into this school according to those in the "know" here on UB, they must be doing something right. Please don't tell me that it's because of connections because Dalton and St. Ann's have just as many wealthy connected families but seem to have more year to year fluctuations in their exmissions.
[ Reply | Options ]what i'm saying, is that there has been a radical shift in their paradigm. whatever you've known to be true about this school in the past, all bets are off. they just diluted their pool dramatically. the results of this new direction won't be felt for a while. but there will definitely be negative repercussions and probabl sooner rather than later.
[ Reply | Options ]As a new HM parent, please tell me how you know this "inside" info? Greatly increasing class size? Where are you getting this? So if in fact there are no changes in class size this year, is the rest of your argument to be taken seriously? Unless you are in the HM top brass, how on earth would you know this?
[ Reply | Options ]can't speak for the kindergarten, but i know for a fact (from a horace mann board member who confirmed it and from administrative staff at one of the poached schools) that they basically over-accepted transfer students across a wide-variety of grades this year because they got themselves into a difficult situation financially. this is a bona fide fact. if class sizes aren't growing, than perhaps they lost more students than usual. but this is a fact, not a rumor.
[ Reply | Options ]NP: It's funny because there are two boys leaving my son's school for H.M. this year and both boys were middle/lower middle of the pack academically. Fellow parents were scratching their heads. I'm not saying that this story is true, but it certainly explains how these two kids got in.
[ Reply | Options ]nnp: why would 2 "lower/middle of the pack boys" even be applying to transfer to HM? why would they think they'd get in?
[ Reply | Options ]nnp: ITA, given that is rumored to be the most cutthroat of all schools, going there when you struggle academically elsewhere is a recipe for disaster. Even if they do take dc for some reason, I can't imagine it ending well.
[ Reply | Options ]first of all, i want to apologize for my initial tone. i talk like a sailor in my real life (i'm not proud of it, but it is what it is), so words like "crapper" and "pissed off" are words that slide off my tongue without thought. clearly, however, on an anonymous chat board, which has no tone, i have to be a bit more careful with the way i say things. and, as an old-timer, i should know this. in my defense, it's been a very very long time since i've posted on UB, and i'd forgotton how things work around here. i revisited the site to get some information about g&t testing for a friend (my children are older), and got sucked back in for a moment. now that that's out of the way, let me try to clarify my h.m. story before i disappear again (it sure is hard to quit this board, but i have no real reason to be here, so i think i will have to force myself). this board can be such a wonderful source of information, but it is also full of opinion stated as fact. when i read that people were telling this woman that a 96 erb score would preclude her from "top tier" schools as if it were a fact, i was...let's say annoyed. there are so many factors that go into admissions that none of us know about, and to tell a woman whose child did, not just well, but very well on the test that she shouldn't at least apply frustrates me. also, i happen to have information (not rumor, not opinion, not gossip) about h.m. that i thought would be of interest (salacious and hysterical as it may appear). unfortunately, i expressed it in a wholly inappropriate way on an unrelated thread. here is what i know..... every year horace mann gets lots of applications for transfer (as students with all sorts of qualifications look to go coed, get to a "campus" school, or one with a better reputation than the one they currently attend). generally, the school accepts a handful of these applications (selecting only the best and the brightest from schools around the city). this year, things were very different. h.m. found themselves in an extremely difficult financial situation and so they took the unprecedented step of accepting virtually every transfer application they received (i say virtually, because i have no idea what percent they actually accepted. i just know that they were looking for numbers this year, not qualifications and that they accepted many students who they would normally have turned away). obviously, they aren't standing on the mountain tops and shouting out "look what we've done", but i know that the numbers were so out of proportion with what they've ever been, that it caused more than just a few rumblings within the private school community (they know how many kids they usually lose in a year to h.m. and this was a blood bath in comparison).i also know that these rumblings happened concurrently with conversations about the fact that h.m. was now going to find themselves in one of two situations.... either they are going to be faced with an awful lot of kids who will struggle and need lots of additional support to survive the pressure-cooker environment that is h.m., or they are going to have to adjust the "expectations" to fit the new audience of "paying customer" thereby dissatisfying the old guard parents in the process. now, these, of course, are just theories. but the facts, regarding their change in admission policy this year are...fact. what they have to do with this particular thread, i honestly can't say. i guess that i feel like with certain schools (like h.m.) there's a bit of "the emperor has no clothes" going on. why? b/c people are so focused on "reputation" or, forgive me, the ridiculous and absurd idea that not only are there are only three colleges in the country worth applying to but that a school's acceptance rate at these particular schools actually MEANS anything. in closing i just want to say that while i know how stressful the process is, and i know that all of these discussions about "tiers" and the like are simply a part of the process, i really urge you to recognize that (and i posted this on a thread about marymount re
[ Reply | Options ]let me try to clarify my h.m. story before i disappear again (it sure is hard to quit this board, but i have no real reason to be here, so i think i will have to force myself). this board can be such a wonderful source of information, but it is also full of opinion stated as fact. when i read that people were telling this woman that a 96 erb score would preclude her from "top tier" schools as if it were a fact, i was...let's say annoyed. there are so many factors that go into admissions that none of us know about, and to tell a woman whose child did, not just well, but very well on the test that she shouldn't at least apply frustrates me. also, i happen to have information (not rumor, not opinion, not gossip) about h.m. that i thought would be of interest (salacious and hysterical as it may appear). unfortunately, i expressed it in a wholly inappropriate way on an unrelated thread.
[ Reply | Options ]i happen to have information (not rumor, not opinion, not gossip) about h.m. that i thought would be of interest (salacious and hysterical as it may appear). unfortunately, i expressed it in a wholly inappropriate way on an unrelated thread. here is what i know..... every year horace mann gets lots of applications for transfer (as students with all sorts of qualifications look to go coed, get to a "campus" school, or one with a better reputation than the one they currently attend). generally, the school accepts a handful of these applications (selecting only the best and the brightest from schools around the city). this year, things were very different. h.m. found themselves in an extremely difficult financial situation and so they took the unprecedented step of accepting virtually every transfer application they received (i say virtually, because i have no idea what percent they actually accepted. i just know that they were looking for numbers this year, not qualifications and that they accepted many students who they would normally have turned away). obviously, they aren't standing on the mountain tops and shouting out "look what we've done", but i know that the numbers were so out of proportion with what they've ever been, that it caused more than just a few rumblings within the private school community (they know how many kids they usually lose in a year to h.m. and this was a blood bath in comparison).i also know that these rumblings happened concurrently with conversations about the fact that h.m. was now going to find themselves in one of two situations.... either they are going to be faced with an awful lot of kids who will struggle and need lots of additional support to survive the pressure-cooker environment that is h.m., or they are going to have to adjust the "expectations" to fit the new audience of "paying customer" thereby dissatisfying the old guard parents in the process. now, these, of course, are just theories. but the facts, regarding their change in admission policy this year are...fact. what they have to do with this particular thread, i honestly can't say.
[ Reply | Options ]h.m. found themselves in an extremely difficult financial situation and so they took the unprecedented step of accepting virtually every transfer application they received (i say virtually, because i have no idea what percent they actually accepted. i just know that they were looking for numbers this year, not qualifications and that they accepted many students who they would normally have turned away). obviously, they aren't standing on the mountain tops and shouting out "look what we've done", but i know that the numbers were so out of proportion with what they've ever been, that it caused more than just a few rumblings within the private school community (they know how many kids they usually lose in a year to h.m. and this was a blood bath in comparison).i also know that these rumblings happened concurrently with conversations about the fact that h.m. was now going to find themselves in one of two situations.... either they are going to be faced with an awful lot of kids who will struggle and need lots of additional support to survive the pressure-cooker environment that is h.m., or they are going to have to adjust the "expectations" to fit the new audience of "paying customer" thereby dissatisfying the old guard parents in the process. now, these, of course, are just theories. but the facts, regarding their change in admission policy this year are...fact. what they have to do with this particular thread, i honestly can't say.
[ Reply | Options ]but i know that the numbers were so out of proportion with what they've ever been, that it caused more than just a few rumblings within the private school community (they know how many kids they usually lose in a year to h.m. and this was a blood bath in comparison).i also know that these rumblings happened concurrently with conversations about the fact that h.m. was now going to find themselves in one of two situations.... either they are going to be faced with an awful lot of kids who will struggle and need lots of additional support to survive the pressure-cooker environment that is h.m., or they are going to have to adjust the "expectations" to fit the new audience of "paying customer" thereby dissatisfying the old guard parents in the process. now, these, of course, are just theories. but the facts, regarding their change in admission policy this year are...fact. what they have to do with this particular thread, i honestly can't say
[ Reply | Options ]or they are going to have to adjust the "expectations" to fit the new audience of "paying customer" thereby dissatisfying the old guard parents in the process. now, these, of course, are just theories. but the facts, regarding their change in admission policy this year are...fact. what they have to do with this particular thread, i honestly can't say. i guess that i feel like with certain schools (like h.m.) there's a bit of "the emperor has no clothes" going on. why?
[ Reply | Options ]b/c people are so focused on "reputation" or, forgive me, the ridiculous and absurd idea that not only are there are only three colleges in the country worth applying to, but that a school's acceptance rate at these particular schools actually MEANS anything. in closing i just want to say that while i know how stressful the process is, and i know that all of these discussions about "tiers" and the like are simply a part of the process, i really urge you to recognize that (and i posted this on a thread about marymount recently) at the end of the day, all of these schools (and i mean all of them) are simply more the same than they are different.
[ Reply | Options ]they all have great teachers and crappy teachers (there i go again). they all have certain grades where the group is academically stronger than usual and certain grades that are shockingly weaker than you'd expect (and you don't know which class your kid is going to be in until you're already in the school). they all have good exmission years and bad exmission years. and your kid is going to have good years and bad years at any school (public or private, "first tier" or "third").
[ Reply | Options ]i also know that, as committed and concerned and invested parents, all of your children are going to thrive no matter where they end up. and i know that if they aren't (for whatever reason, be it academic, social or emotional) that you will all advocate for your children and do the best for them. because, if you weren't that kind of parent, you wouldn't be here in the first place. thanks for listening to my long-winded apology/opinion/story. sorry it was so very long.
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np: if a kid applies out of 1 private to HM (or anywhere else) and he gets accepted, how is that the fault of HM (or whatever school accepts the kid) so that if "pisses off manhattan private school administrations". that's ridiculous. kids apply out of one school to another all the time.
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Your dc is not ruled out bec of 96 as 96 is a fine score. However, there will be several hundred kids with the same score competing for the same seat. If your dc nails the playdate and great prek report, he has a shot. But it's still tough at TTs. I'd focus on 2nd tiers.
[ Reply | Options ]That is the same for a 99, though. If the child does not "nail" the play date, the child is out. Plus, people seem to forget that there are a million factors considered when making selections. The make up of the class, parents, diversity, etc. etc. In general a 96 will have a very good shot at a TT as will a 99 but both may end up at a 2nd tier - or shock of shock - a "3rd".
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new to this process (and UB) but I'm glad to hear that 96 is considered a strong enough score to apply to most schools. My DD got a 99 overall and our PS counsellor said that this merely "didn't preclude" her any school but we should really consider applying to a safety schools like British Int'l. I know that ERBs are but one small component of the acceptance equation but she made it sound like we already had to cull our expectations. Thanks for reassuring us that we are not crazy in applying to the schools we think would be a good fit.
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only coeds as we have also have a younger son. Were thinking for shooting for Dalton (I know, I know... we have no chance), Ethical, Town, Friends and Grace. Is that a crazy ambitious list? Of course, we could totally revise that list after we tour but this is what *seems* to be a good fit based on what we read/anecdotal info from friends etc. Any advice greatly appreciated.
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I find your PSD's advice a bit odd. I would add some schools like CGPS and Cathedral, but I don't think you need "safety schools". I'd only add schools that you think you'd actually want your dc to go to.
[ Reply | Options ]NP: Are you saying that in general a 99x3 doesn't need "safety schools"? I'd like for that to be true, but would be surprised. Even w/o any zoned public back up?
[ Reply | Options ]^^^ sorry hit enter too soon. I'm saying that there are plenty of schools the OP might like for her dc that are not 1st or 2nd tier that would give her dc more options. You certainly can't call CGPS or Cathedral a safety school because they are both hard to get into but it would at least add more variation to her list of schools. I guess my point is that I don't think OP will have to settle for a school that she doesn't think is right for her dc and when someone calls a school a safety school to me, it means that they don't really want their dc to go there.
[ Reply | Options ]np We didn't have what most people would consider "safety schools" with that score. Just a few non tts that are also very sought after. There aren't that many kids with 99s and they do get a close look. Dc got into first choice (no connections and we're not wealthy beyond not needing FA).
[ Reply | Options ]np: The problem with concept of 'safety school' is that even schools that are called '3rd tier' on UB aren't safety school. They tend to only accept kids/families that show strong interest at the school. If your dc has 99x3 and you treat them as safety you will get a rejection no question. CGPS is sort of famous for this but it's true for most of them if perhaps to a lesser degree. Unless they hear they are in your top 3 they will still reject dc or WL perhaps.
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Thanks for confirming... we did too! We aren't willing to add safety schools (hate that term) b/c if we get shut out, we'll send her to (OMG!) public school &/or G&T. We are of the mind that we are only willing to pay $35k for certain schools.
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I wouldn't think that 99 ERBs were that common either but our PSD told us that half of the kids that wrote it last year scored 95 or better. I think she wanted to really drive home that our DC 99 was nothing special... gee, thanks.
[ Reply | Options ]How many of them had 95s or 96s, though? How many 99s (especially 99x3s) are there a year?
[ Reply | Options ]She didn't specify what the break-out was but maybe she was implying that it's a pretty even playing field at 95 and higher...? I guess when you factor in aspects of interviews, diversity, connections, demographics etc etc, it is hard to discern how differential the ERB score is.
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This is statistics-in the pool of kids applying to the NYC privates. 99's are not uncommon. 95 is a dime a dozen. Its somewhat meaningless: an 88 will get into any school including Collegiate or Dalton if there is a compelling reason-connections, alumni, legacy variables; money etc
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