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If the govt subsidizes my housing, my food and my healthcare, what incentive do I have to work?
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np: That's a problem too. Why would corporations behave differently than they have if they beleive they'll get bailed out when things go bad.
[ Reply | Options ]they have been getting bailed out all of your natural life -i'm not referring to the tarp. it's just silly to me that people are willing to subsidize all sorts of other stuff, but not basic healthcare for all. I think the argument is being framed improperly.
[ Reply | Options ]Not all of them. Lots of corporations have failed over the years. The S&Ls in the 80s, Eastern Airlines, and last year Lehman Brothers. One of the reasons sited for not rescuing Lehman was moral hazard -- the concept that if buisnesses expect to be bailed out they will behave more recklessly. The same concept can be applied to individuals.
[ Reply | Options ]by virtue of the fact that most of them avoid corporate taxes, they get bailed out. don't even talk about halliburton and all it's subsidiaries. if you want to be outraged, talk about the $ spent on the war. if they can do that, they can immunize some children and care for the poor. pigs.
[ Reply | Options ]You're really lumping a lot of things together there. First off, there are free immunization programs in this country available to all, even you. Nobody was talking about Halliburton or the war so I'm not sure why you're bringing it up. And nobody has said (on this thread) that the government is spending 100% of the taxes the right way. I doubt you could find anyone anywhere who would say that. But please stick to the topic at hand if you'd like to have a meaningful discussion. If you would like to rant instead go ahead.
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ITTTA. The argument is totally inverted and without merit. You can't own a car or a home in the US without ins., yet we cry that our *rights* are being taken away if we are required to have health ins. We confuse right with privelege at an alarming rate. I really think a civics course should be mandatory but then again, ppl have the right to be stupid.
[ Reply | Options ]i hear what you are saying and think you have a good point. but there's a big difference between health insurance and car insurance. in one, the bill being picked up if you are negligent will fall on another individual, in another, the bill will fall on the collective public.
[ Reply | Options ]What a dumb analogy. If I don't have car insurance and wreck your car and injure you, you're screwed (unless I'm wealthy--in which case I wouldn't be driving without insurance). I I don't have insurance and break my arm, I'll have a bill to pay.
[ Reply | Options ]Car insurance is one of the prices you pay if you want to have a car. You can't say the same about medical insurance. You don't get to opt out of not having a body.
[ Reply | Options ]The point is, IMO, if you don't have ins. someone else has to pay for you. ppl should be made have some ins.
[ Reply | Options ]Its completely different than car insurance IMO. Having a car is a privelege. Having a body is inherent to being born. You can require car insurance for the privelege of driving. Its not the same as requiring health insurance. If people don't have it they should have to spend 100% of their money before any medical bills are picked up by someone else.
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and there's the rub. (and btw, the majority of the recipients of subsidies in this country are white, some are even hasidic).
[ Reply | Options ]I once had to go on Social Services when I was going through a bad time. I am white. All the workers there are black. They were rude to me and had this attitude like, "why should you be here, you're white." Everyone in the waiting area was non-white. Not only are most people on Social Services non-whites but so are those that work there.
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in a city like NY some of the hardest workers need programs like gov. subsidized housing otherwise they would need to move elsewhere. Minimum wage or slightly above does not go very far.
[ Reply | Options ]guess what percentage of people earn minimum wage. and guess what percentage of workers over the age of 21 earn minimum wage.
[ Reply | Options ]3 percent. but that's not the point there are lots of people who make barely more and live paycheck to paycheck because the cost of living in NY is so high. gov. subsidize allow these people the opportunity to stay in NY.
[ Reply | Options ]np: The problem is that the hardest workers don't live in government housing, they live out in Queens in a small studio for family of 5. Government housing (aka the projects) has alarmingly low percentage of people who do have full time jobs (legal ones, anyway).
[ Reply | Options ]why is that a problem? there are good schools in queens, their kids are learning good work ethics, and the next generation of that family is going to see some college graduates and some professionals. and they'll be thrilled.
[ Reply | Options ]I did not say the former is a problem, the latter is however, because the next generation there is least likely to produce college graduates (or even HS graduates) and professionals. So our subsidy is really not helping much. The housing projects near us are a total hellhole, too.
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none if it all gets cut the minute I start to make even the most minimum of salary.
[ Reply | Options ]Have you ever heard of the common good, compassion, sharing with the not so fortunate...? People who have a good education, are healthy and well feed WANT to work in general. People who sick, hungry and uneducated are more likely the ones who might be without energy to live a self sufficient life.
[ Reply | Options ]i'm on my second round of unemployment in the past few years. i realize this isn't exactly the same as subsidized housing or food but i think it has certain similarities. i think that if there was some sort of work requirement where i had to show up and be doing something instead of getting unemployment for "free", then i probably would be looking much harder for a job and would be more likely to take a job than wait for the perfect situation. i think they tried to do this with welfare in ny, that after a certain point you had to show up for work in order to get the welfare. i don't htink it would be a bad idea. at the very least, they'd be able to keep the highways more clean, they'd have people working in soup kitchens, etc.
[ Reply | Options ]Only difference between UE and welfare is that you paid into your unemployment benefits while you were working and you are supposed to be using your time looking for a job. Your new job is finding a new job. Thats how I looked at it when I was on UE. I ended up taking a position for less money but at least I am back at work.
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