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you know, i'm all for having one parent stay home with kids. but i also don't think there's anything wrong with aspiring to a nicer lifestyle. granted, everyone's "nicer" is a different level, but i think it's foolish to go around saying that everyone should be able to live on one income, regardless of what that income can buy for you.
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i know you are trolling but i'll bite anyway. (especially b/c i used to feel like that and now reality is setting in and i've changed my position quite a bit). i don't think being short on money or having to "make do" is always good for kids either. so i'd say that it's not necessarily better for your kids.
[ Reply | Options ]except many people are short of money so kids won't feel the impact of that. but if a kid has the stability of a parent around while they're very young, i think it gives their lives a sense of comfort and well being that frankly money can't buy, and can't be made up for once they're older. and btw i was wohm and left because of my feelings; now part-time, kids older and i know it was right for me and my kids.
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happy parents and security are far more important than a stressed out family fighting over money trying to make ends meet--sure I was raised by a sahm--who was a single mother who barely had enough money to make ends meet and was always stressed and in a bad way--if she had any control over her situation/had a job I think we'd all have been much happier--not saying sah or woh is better--but neither are the magic bullet--but one thing i know for sure is that happier non stressed moms and dads make for happier well adjusted children --
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I'm a better parent when I work. Hate staying home. When I'm not happy it's not good for my kids or my marriage.
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np: where do you want me to start, i do the home chores better when i feel like i contributed all day long to something that is adult oriented, i make lots of time for my kids, i leave work when i need to, i don't like the lonliness. i stayed home with #1 for 6 months until DH told me if i didn't go back to work he would leave. i was miserable. staying home is not for everyone.
[ Reply | Options ]honesty is good. what i think is the most important thing is to be able to be home after work for the kids. what turned my stomach was the mom who worked 12 plus hours and on weekends and when she left in the morning her baby barely recognized her any more. at that point is say, "why are you having kids"?
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Playing with kids all day is boring for me. NO adult stimulation. Bored talking about kids all day.
[ Reply | Options ]you have a distorted view. i get together with friends and their dc a lot; take my kids to activities, pre-school and after school get togethers. i also take personal interest courses of my own and have a mother's helper for my own time. i feel good about it, and love the lack of stress from when i was trying to balance it all being wohm.
[ Reply | Options ]I believe that different things work for different people. I stopped working for a while and went brain dead. Another thing to think about - what will you tell your dd when she will ask you why go to school/college and get good grades if will be home after that? Also, working is a good role model for girls who can support themselves and not rely on or stay in a bad marriage just for money. So many do.
[ Reply | Options ]i completely agree that different things are right for different people. i think the prime concern is that there is consistent reliable time with dc that they can trust and count on; and of couse, that the nanny/day care be a place that makes them feel safe and content. also, it's not a bad thing to go "brain dead" for awhile. sometimes it's a relief from the stress of a job that has become too much stress, which is where i was.
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sounds sensible enough. i work, though, because my income supports dd. stayed home for as long as i can (saved money to do so, then lived on the cheap). your schpiel is for the ideal situation.
[ Reply | Options ]you know what, your value system sounds fine too. i think the extreme of that mom a few weeks ago who never saw her baby because she worked 12 hours a day and on weekends is what led people to question why she ever had a child. the baby was no longer responding to her. very sad.
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your children bore you? just make sure they NEVER hear you say that about them, even in adulthood.
[ Reply | Options ]oh please! That's not what she said. Only a Stepford wife would say that SAH is one endless parade of fun and joy. Any sane person knows that spending all day with young kids is a circus of frustration, laughter, chaos, discovery, messiness, and yes--boredom. Wait til your kids are parents and they call you when they're completely exhausted and befuddled by their own kids. They'll want laughter and sympathy, not "oh, I just LOVED every minute of your terrible twos!"
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Yes! Thank you. Thank you for saying this. You see SO many irritated mothers furiously pushing stollers around who made the "sacrifice" to stay home but genuinely hate it. And it shows. And I'm sure their children can feel it.
[ Reply | Options ]totally true! I think our generation has completely forgotten the dark side of the 1950's housewife--the frenetic boredom and loneliness, feeling of financial powerlessness. The Mrs. Piggle-Wiggle books are actually hilarious portrayals of the mixed-bag of that era's suburban parenting--the dads who rush off to the train, the moms who are home and totally focused on their kids but flailing too and putting way too much energy into bridge luncheons and jello salads.
[ Reply | Options ]...but you see this 1950s housewife all the time on ub, making comments like "don't you have a husband who works". As if the only reason women work is for survival/to make money. One step forward, three steps back...
[ Reply | Options ]Totally...they need to study Betty Draper on MadMen! (hey--I'm trying to keep my examples fictional at least!) I'm personally one of those people who loves to stay home, but I'm lazy and domestic and not particularly career-minded and I only had one dc. I know plenty of people who would've gone insane staying home all the time, especially people who really do love their jobs. For almost everyone I think it's crucial to keep at least a toehold out in the work world.
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Settle down for crying out loud. No one is defensive. This was a general comment not related to you, Jenny (it's not all about you, Jenny) And no one was calling any SAHM anything- quite the opposite, if you'd take the time to read and process before putting hands to keyboard. Separately: yea. Sure. That's how "careers" work, you just leave them for a few years and go back to them.
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ALERT ALERT ALERT ALERT ALERT- a troll has taken over this thread (and most likely posted it also)- do not be alarmed! Do not bother responding! ALERT ALERT ALERT ALERT ALERT ALERT ALERT ALERT ALERT ALERT ALERT
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I just don't understand why people are trying to reason and argue with someone who is just looking to incite anger and accumulate responses. It's typical troll behavior and they will take over the whole board just trying to pull in more and more people to argue something that they likely don't even believe.
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FT WOHM here. Income is only part of it. If I only wanted income I would work at Starbucks. A large part of my identity is my work.
[ Reply | Options ]HA! Starbucks is better than spending time with your kids? Do what I do and just have a stiff G & T when the kids start getting to me! Luv, Jenny ;)
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Why is that sad? I run a company. Do you not think my identity is partly in my work? My identity is also being a mom. Would you criticize a man for having his identity tied to his work? I am not the OR by the way.
[ Reply | Options ]i'm sorry - i was unclear - i think it's sad that anyone (man or woman) is identified by their work.
[ Reply | Options ]Jobs come and go, your identity should not be tied to them for that reason. It's normal for it to be part of your life, not part of your identity.
[ Reply | Options ]NP: A job is different from a career. It's totally normal for people to consider their career a part of their identity, and for other people to see it has part of their identity as well. My DH is a scientist and I could list off a hundred different ways that affects his personality and the way he views the world.
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me neither. Did you ever think that your dh is a scientist because his existing personality and his interests suit that career? Every experience in life molds you, but it doesn't necessarily mean it becomes you.
[ Reply | Options ]What's the difference between saying something "molds you" and saying it's a part of your identity?
[ Reply | Options ]I'm not going to argue semantics. Most people would view their personal identity as a extremely large and influential aspect of themselves. Others feel that it is unfortunate if your career becomes an extremely large and influential part of your life. It is a means to an end. And, as the story goes, no one ever lay on their deathbed thinking, 'I wish I had spend more time in the office.'
[ Reply | Options ]ita. a career should not be a part of your identity. none of the people at the office truly care about your well-being, your family, your health. and the work you do is easily done by someone else.
[ Reply | Options ]np: this may be true of officework, but i don't think it's true of the field in which i work. i can think of very few people who could do the job i do, simply because of the amount of school involved and the specialized training required. everyone i work with has a career that is a major part of their identity, and i don't think there is anything wrong with that. different strokes...
[ Reply | Options ]NP: So you don't want your DC's pediatrician to value being a doctor? Her teacher to value her role as a teacher? The guy that builds your house to take pride in doing it correctly? Or even your accountant to care about getting your taxes right? You want them all thinking "I'm just here for the paycheck and anyone else could do this tomorrow", so has not to have an inflated sense of self and career?
[ Reply | Options ]you honestly think that a NASA engineer's/neurosurgeon's/mathematical modeler's work could easily be done by someone else? i agree if you mean there is somebody in the world who could take over their specific job with enough training. but the pool of people qualified to do these things is extremely small. i don't think i have an inflated sense of self or of my career--i don't think i am some amazing genius or the most important person in the room--but i know my training is pretty unique and i could count the # of people working on something similar on one hand. i think it's obnoxious to make statements like "a career should NOT be a part of your identity." who are you to say that?
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it's not sad, it's pathetic and indicative of the way the world has changed. you never identified with anything OUTSIDE work, ever? nothing? family is so devalued nowadays this is just depressing.
[ Reply | Options ]And why should my entire identity be the responsibility of my child? That would make me a Smother, not a mother.
[ Reply | Options ]still missing the point i see. what about OTHER interests? are you just a single-faceted person? i may be a SAHM but i freelance, do graphic design, paint, read something academic every night and have interesting discussions with dh about it. a SAHM is not automatically single-minded about their child, either.
[ Reply | Options ]NP: So it's OK for a woman to be multi-faceted as long as one of her facets isn't a career? Is that your point?
[ Reply | Options ]unless you're irretrievably stupid you must see the difference between having other interests and activities, and having a job which defines you while at the same time removing your from your child's presence for most of each day. i'm NOT against women working, for sure...i'm just incensed by the women saying how boring their children are and how they NEED a career to define who they are. very very small people here.
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I am a FT WOHM, too, and I love my job and career, and I have a masters degree in my field. With that said, I don't think of it as being a part of my identity. I think, I'm a woman, a mother, a wife, AND I have a career I love. BUT, I don't exactly think: I'm the [Title] of [Organization].
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Why is it always discussed that both aprents work for the money? Maybe some women want a career and identity outside of of being their dc's mom and their dh's wife.
[ Reply | Options ]Yes! Exactly! For God's sake. Most of of went to school to study something that interested us. Then we pursued a career in something that interested us. So, yes, part of our identity is that job or career, because- it interested us! And we liked it enough to show up each day and do it for 8 or 9 or 10 hours a day. I admire and respect those who choose to stay at home with their children all day every day but it's not for everyone. Why are there people on this site who believe that only their way of doing something is the correct way? Grr.
[ Reply | Options ]To be fair, the My-Way-Is-the-Only-Way is 1) usually spewed by one of two select crazies and 2) is universal in its application, not just the WOHM vs SAHM debate. I completley agree with what you said. I never grew up fantasizing about my wedding or dreaming about babies - I'm just not cut out to be a SAHM, I would be awful at it.
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most people feel you need to sacrifice something to achieve that. and many more feel that sacrificing your family for your own interests is selfish. While I don't subscribe to those beliefs, doing it for money is often the one thing people won't argue about. You'll need to start a new post, if you want to argue the pros and cons of having a career and a family. Or even better, just do a search on UB and then you can spend countless hours reading about it.
[ Reply | Options ]The more I read this site the more I think there are a lot of anti-feminist women out there. Makes me sad.
[ Reply | Options ]and what, pray tell, has true "feminism" done in this country? free, stable and certified child care so you can work like in europe? no. more support for new moms and proper maternity/paternity leave? no. free contraception for everyone regardless of economic background? no. to aside from yammering on about being more like men, i'm not seeing much. enlighten me.
[ Reply | Options ]Feminism is the theory of the political, economic, and social equality of the sexes. I think you are confusing the issues. It really isn't about providing free contraception. But maybe you don't really read much because your husband is the one who reads the books.
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you have no idea who i am or how i work, how educated i am so your comment is really lame to me. what i DO know is if you want to "liberate" women, you do it on all fronts...contraception included. i'm from a european country and sometimes reading what people here write reminds me why america seems so narrow and backward in so many ways, this way included.
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For me it is about who I want socializing my children at the youngest age when they are developing as a person. Should it be someone who does not share our family values or have the same level of eduation or the same traditions, views of the world....or should it be me? There is always a time to go back to work, but only one chance to lay the proper foundation.
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I work because I choose to be a mom, a wife AND a X (my profession). It's all a part of who I am. While being a mom is very important, it doesn't have to mean sacrificing a part of myself. Do we expect women to stop spending time with their DH once they become a mom? No. Same thing with the career IMO. Sometimes it take a hit, sometimes it doesn't. You figure it out!
[ Reply | Options ]the most important thing hasn't been said enough: that if you are a wohm, the dc still have to come first, otherwise, you shouldn't have them. you are obligated to see to it that they are feeling safe and a sense of well being during the day when you're away with whatever child care you have. and that they should know and can count on a large chunk of time daily with you and all of you on weekends. the dc should never have to suffer because their mom needs an identity.
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Are you expecting something special from your dh for Valentine's Day?
- Yes, and he's in big trouble if he forgets.
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