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UB Like it's 1776!
Posted September 13, 2007(191 replies)
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*GIGGLE* - From Ordering Steak and Lobster to Serving It: http://online.wsj.com/article/SB124390425824574861.html
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HATE this. Nobody hates masters of the universe more than I, but the guy featured and others mentioned were trader types who came from the working class. The only thing this guy did wrong was buy a $960K condo with a $200K annual income, and what financial institution enabled him to do that? Read the article. He and his wife budgeted carefully (except for the condo) and he wanted to live near home to be near his kids.
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Wait, you are bashing this guy who made 200k max and had savings and then depleted it because he couldn't find a job for a year? You guys are heartless. Nothing about him seems irresponsible.
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ub doesn't exist, there is free health care for everyone. war in iraq and afghanistan and korea and israel are still going strong, though.
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Regardless. So the guy sat on his ass for two years doing nothing. In half that time he could have trained for a new career. He could already be a certified electrician -- on his way to being a licensed electrician -- making $200K *today*. Oh but wait, he might chip a nail -- those hands don't look like they've ever seen real work before.
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Someone making $200K a year would not be able to afford a $960K apartment in tribeca - as the article states - i call that living beyond your means. Now they make $4,000 a month and are "havnig trouble" making ends meet? boo hoo...... sorry - i am in danger of losing my job too - i make a decent living but have ALWAYS been aware that easy come, easy go - too many people became ridiculously selfish - and now it's time to buckle down and realize you don't rule the f-ing world. thank you.
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I honestly don't know what you find so funny about this. The part about his daughter counting the money in her piggy bank to keep them in their home made me cry.
[ Reply | More ]This is just UB at its most toxic. How can anyone "giggle" about the misfortune of this family? I'm speechless.
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ITTTA. This guy was not the Wall Street problem. He grew up in a working class family and made a decent middle class (for NYC) salary. You people who think this is funny are just disgusting.
[ Reply | More ]$200K is not middle class, even for NYC. The median HHI in NYC is $73K. "Upper class" in NYC starts at $178K.
[ Reply | More ]Fine. You try to pay private school tuition on $178K and tell me that is upper class for NYC. My point was, this guy was not Madoff and nobody should be applauding or mocking his family's circumstances.
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Nope - I'm a happy public school mom of a MS and HS student - but there's no way we could've afforded private for 2 kids and our HHI is $250K. And that's not the point - the point is that this man is not one of those IB master of the universe types. Just a human being trying to keep his family afloat.
[ Reply | More ]I agree with you about the man's circumstances, but you can't use being able to afford private school as a badge of the middle class.
[ Reply | More ]No, and I guess when you put it that way I wouldn't call my family "middle class" (maybe upper middle class)-- but the man in the article was not what I think of as "rich" for NYC.
[ Reply | More ]"Rich" is a whole other definition. According to the Department of Labor, "Upper Middle Class" starts at $95K and ends at $178K. Over $178K -- up to infinity -- is "Upper Class".
[ Reply | More ]THANK YOU. I'm "middle class" -- not even "upper" middle class -- with a HHI of $68K. You have no idea how insulting it is to me for these overprivileged wenches on this board to boo-hoo over their "middle class" status with their quarter-million dollar incomes!!!
[ Reply | More ]Whatever. Without adjusting this definition for the cost of living in a particular city it is not particularly meaningful.
[ Reply | More ]Cost adjusting for other cities has nothing to do with socio-economic status. There are way more "upper class" people in NYC, but many of those upper class people have the lifestyles of upper middle class in Cleveland. It still doesn't change their economic status -- they just happen to live in a more expensive city. Socio-economic status has nothing to do with *lifestyle*.
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Believe it or not, a family's ability to afford private school has nothing to do with where their HHI puts them on the socio-economic scale. There are plenty of "middle class" New Yorkers living on $78K/year sending their kids to private school (without financial aid, I might add), and there are plenty of "upper class" (not "upper MIDDLE class", but UPPER class) New Yorkers making $200K+ who "can't afford" private school because they're spending too much of their income on housing, cars, and vacations.
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Private school is not a basic human need -- it is a L U X U R Y, just like Mercedes-Benzes and Sub-Zero refrigerators.
[ Reply | More ]Of course. But surely any good definition of "upper class" should include the ability to pay for private school.
[ Reply | More ]No. It has absolutely nothing to do with being able to afford private school any more than it has to do with being able to afford diamond tennis bracelets or Lobster Bisque at every meal. Socio-economic class is based on household income, period. What you do with that income is up to you.
[ Reply | More ]nr - right, because you decide what defines "socio-economic class"? it's one thing to discuss standard income deviations in new york city, but that doesn't necessarily correlate with the notion of "class" in america, which is far more complex than you want it to be. but if it makes you feel better to judge somebody based on your math rather than based on reality, go for it.
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when people here say that wall streeter were rubbing their noses in "it" during the bull market, so now it's fine to enjoy their misery, what are they talking about?...i don't work in finance, but know people who do...no one ever rubbed my nose in anything...it seems more like plain old envy
[ Reply | More ]What is he doing ordering $200 bottles of wine, steak, lobster etc., has a wife, 2 dd’s to support who take ballet and tumbling classes, a $6,200 mortgage----on a 200K salary---in NYC?? He even dropped out of college. He’s really lucky to get a job serving food and not be told he’s “overqualified” and not given that job. They make these Wallstreeters out to be so highly qualified, so smart…but they really stupid and greedy and got caught. He said he used to think the unemployed were lazy. I really feel for the DD’s, not for him or the wife who lived waaaay above their means. And they wonder why we hate their behavior.
[ Reply | More ]So there's this part of the bible where Jesus talks about casting stones? You should check it out someday.
[ Reply | More ]Sorry ... I'm still smarting from the stones cast for the past 15 years from the Wall Street crowd ...
[ Reply | More ]Here's a hint - there's no "but he worked on Wall Street and I'm a better person than he is" exception to the general rule.
[ Reply | More ]Really? Can you give some specific examples of how stones were cast at you. I think you have/had severe self esteem issues and are using this crisis as a way to feel better because now other people are hurting as well.
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I think they will be fine. Everyone on wall st will find their bearings in a few months if not a few years. You, and everyone else who is enjoying their misfortune on the other hand, you will remain bitter and pathetic all your lives. I feel worse for you actually. Ever ask yourself honestly... how were they rubbing 'our noses in it?'
[ Reply | More ]Only after reading UB do I feel that the NON wall street people in NYC are really much worse (mean, bitter, greedy, shallow) than those on wall st. This thread and a majority of the responses - YUCK!
[ Reply | More ]You really make me sick. You should never gain pleasure from someone's misfortunes.
[ Reply | More ]Agreed. But to say that the Wall Street crowd didn't rub people's noses in it is a bit off-target. During the mess leading up to the big mess, they were living it up while predatory lending practices ate away at the middle class. And ever wonder why so many people are going into debt keeping up with the joneses? B/c the Wall Street crew is part of a huge inflated pricing scheme. Well, they were...
[ Reply | More ]They are like children and can't control themselves without being heavily regulated. Look how they were "rating" bonds--"a cow could do it" (laff, laff). Those at S&P hopefully are getting their due. We trusted those azzholes and they betrayed our trust. Why is that so hard to understand why we HATE them?
[ Reply | More ]sorry, people don't get a free pass for being idiots and being reckless just because they "trusted" wall street. this guy gets slammed because he stupidly believed the system would sustain him, but we're all useless victims? with our boats and second homes on "middle class" ($78K!) salaries? don't think so.
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This guy is a good husband and father. Not many Wall Streeters would be able to check their egos and take a working class job like this. Save your schadenfreude for the real assholes.
[ Reply | More ]ITA. The man swallowed his pride and took a lower-status job to help support his family, and has had to wait on former colleagues. How many of the harpies mocking him on this board could tolerate that? Suppose you had to sell shoes to your acquaintances to make ends meet? Whatever bad judgment he may have exercised before that, he deserves nothing but respect for acting like a man and doing what needs to be done. And that kind of character means he'll be able to bounce back someday. Few of his critics here would do as well, I am certain of that.
[ Reply | More ]ITA. The guy is not perfect but is trying to do his best. Not all Wall Streeters are equally "guilty" for the state of the economy right not. And not all of them are dealing with the consequences in the same way. Even if this family was not smart about their finances, I feel bad for them.
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I agree with the posters above and am disgusted by those taking joy in the misfortune of a seemingly decent family. However, one thing I can't figure out - Why the heck haven't they left NYC? I mean dc are young enough to relocate easily and since he has accepted not returning to the financial sector, could likely do much better *anywhere* but NYC.
[ Reply | More ]Probably because they're underwater on the condo and don't have enough cash to get out and set up somewhere else. While it would make sense to move to the Midwest or somewhere, it probably costs about $20k minimum to move a whole household and put down 1st, last and security on a new place. Add to that, they'd probably need to buy a car.
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