new post »
see more posts »
I had to teach long-division and long-multiplication myself to DC. Apparently everyday math thinks these are too difficult for kids to comprehend.
49 replies [ Reply | Watch | Options ]-
TERKS, Investigations and the like have not been shown to effectively teach math! Those are touchy-feely methods and I hate tehm. The old algorithms work and they work every time. It's how I learned mathematics and I went onto a career in math/science.
[ Reply | Options ]oh, please. for starters Investigations is TERC, To be precise, Investigations was developed by TERC. Secondly, drill and kill math left many more children behind than the progressive curricula. The focus nowadays is to make sure that EVERY child has a basic understanding of mathematics and that is done perfectly well with TERC, EDM, what have you. The thing that school lack, though, is a way to address children who need more than just the basics. That's a problem that needs to be addressed. Many schools supplement progressive approaches with drill and kill methods.
[ Reply | Options ]
np: i'm confused. you don't think it is important to learn long-division and long-multiplication? i strongly disagree. someone who never learned to do this could never do my job. it's effectively taking away choices from these kids--if they don't learn to handle numbers easily at a young age, they will never be able to think about things quantitatively in a way that lends itself to a successful career in math, engineering, or the hard sciences.
[ Reply | Options ]NP. Yes, it is important for some kids. Some don't need to know it. Some will never be able to really grasp it. Why make those fail and make them feel bad? Kids that need more beyond those progressive approaches should be served somehow.
[ Reply | Options ]The thing is, when kids are this little there is no good way to tell who "needs" to know these things. Long multiplication and long division are a basic skill that EVERYBODY who does not have some type of mental handicap should be able to grasp. We are not talking calculus, here. And what happens when we start saying that not everyone needs or is capable of learning basic skills is that we stop teaching it to poor kids, because there is no good way to evaluate who should and should not be learning something according to this theory. Not teaching something because it is hard for many kids to understand is ridiculous. Perhaps the DOE could begin using an evidence-backed curriculum if it actually wants good results.
[ Reply | Options ]My ds is in 4th using EM and has been taught long division and long multiplication. If I had his math book, I could even tell you what pages it is on. You silly posters rant on without knowing anything. And this is a gen ed, not some 'gifted' program, so ALL the supposedly stupid kids know how to do long division and multiplication by end of 4th. I don't post about things I know nothing about, and neither should you.
[ Reply | Options ]Maybe his teacher enriches. I challenge you to tell mein which page of the EM book it has long division/long-multiplication. I know for a FACT that EM does NOT teach long division/long multiplication
[ Reply | Options ]lol -- I wish his teacher "enriched". Hardly. I think you are confused because the "method" is different, but there are always a few long multiplication and occasional division problems in nearly every homelink section.
[ Reply | Options ]Have you never heard of the lattice method? That's how kids do long multiplication.
[ Reply | Options ]No moron, lattice is NOT long-multiplication. It's just a stupid alternative time-consuming cumbersome way to multiply. This is what long-multiplicaiton is: http://www.mathsisfun.com/numbers/multiplication-long.html
[ Reply | Options ]Oh please. Explain to people here that kids absolutely know how to multiply many digit numbers, but they learn a different method from when we were kids. You don't like it, but let's be truthful here -- they know how to multiply and divide without a calculator.
[ Reply | Options ]See my post below. The fact that you have to post some silly link to an anti-EM screed shows you can't make a coherent argument yourself. Look, let's agree to disagree. Kids DO learn how to multiply and divide large numbers. We agree on that. But we disagree that the method they are taught is a good one.
[ Reply | Options ]
-
-
-
-
-
np: you don't think it's a little sad that schools are not teaching a basic mathematical skill anymore? obviously, there are much sadder things in the world. but this is pretty sad for kids who have mathematical aptitude, can't get help with developing their math skills at home, and now don't have the opportunity to learn essential mathematical operations at school. it's pretty sad for society, too, when the public education system can't get it together to train kids in a basic skill that will be needed desperately down the line.
[ Reply | Options ]
-
I agree that long division and multiplication is a skill that all kids should be able to grasp. It is a failure of a program to not teach a reliable, quick method. I consider Everyday Math, TERC and the like a failure in this regard. These are not skills that should be reserved for kids inclined in the sciences. And anyway, who are we to pigeonhole kids at that age? Teach them the basics and let them flourish at their time. Without the basics and we've essentially clipped their wings.
[ Reply | Options ]Say what?? My ds is in 4th in a gen ed and uses Everyday math. They learned long multiplication (the lattice method is a favorite) and also long division (which I taught him myself using the Parents' Guide from Everyday Math). That's basic 4th grade math in a gen ed, so your school must be way behind.
[ Reply | Options ]^^^and I hate when responders who have no direct experience with EM criticize it. I know it is far from perfect, but so was the system I learned math with and I'm quite good (as is my ds -- a 4 on 3rd grade math test). I don't mind legitimate criticism, but people here have no idea what they are talking about.
[ Reply | Options ]Lattice is NOT long-multiplication moron. Long-multiplication is multiplication of two-digit numbers (and up) with regrouping. The EM methods are "partial products and the totally moronic "lattice". Also, for division they teach "partial quotients" NOT long-division. You have no idea what you're talking about if you confuse lattice with long-multiplication
[ Reply | Options ]Excuse me, you really are way off base. What you call "long division" is exactly what used to be called "new math" back in the days when our parents complained about it. Can you please explain to people here for the record that kids DO learn how to multiply multiple digit numbers and divided multiple digit numbers, but they use a different system. People here think they don't teach kids how to do it at all -- you just don't like the WAY they do it.
[ Reply | Options ]-
Oh please, that's some anti- EM silliness. In fact, with EM you can use ANY system to multiply and divide that you want, but most kids like the lattice system. You are an old fogie who wants everything to be exactly the same. Also, fyi -- I taught ds the partial quotients system of long division and it's WAY more sensible. I love it and it actually makes much more sense. I used to have to separately do multiplication to figure out how many times some big number went into another using "long division" the old way, and this is a quite sensible method. And I'm fantastic in math, fyi.
[ Reply | Options ]
-
my kid is in SECOND GRADE and has already learned long multiplication. are you telling me they don't teach this til the 4th grade in gen ed?? that's crazy.
[ Reply | Options ]Nope. I think they may do double digit multiplication in 3rd grade, but not double digit division. Clearly kids like mine in gen ed will be far far behind brilliant kids like yours who have advanced elementary educations. I can only hope ds can manage some sort of trade school, at least, but even that may be a stretch without having been taught long division and multiplication in 2nd grade.
[ Reply | Options ]
UrbanBaby Asks...
Are you or your partner ever naked in front of your children?
Already voted? View Results
Flashback
The Kid's Menu
Video: Cooking With Grandma Gigi
Granddaughter Olivia helps make plantation casserole...
Also:Lunchbox Recipes
School Lunch Obsessive (video)
Make your Own Baby Food
Baby Food Taste-Off
Is it wrong to ask minors to mix martinis?
Can you tell a pregnant boozer to stop?
