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You can't expect wealthy people to fix the problems of the country... increasing taxes, capping salaries and such is going to stunt Capitalism as we know it. This problem the US is finding itself in is not the fault of the wealthy.
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np And a WHOLE bunch of nitwits on Main Street who bought houses they had no business buying. You forgot that part. And now Obama will be REWARDING them for their irresponsibility! Reduced rates and if they pay on time (like good little children), Big Brother will give them a 1k prize (paid for with OUR tax dollars). This country is descending into a paternalistic nightmare. Hope Obama's a 1 term president.
[ Reply | Options ]I did not forget that part, but I'm more forgiving of them the bankers who 'sold' them the mortgages. and I don't begin to say I know how to get out of this mess, but ignoring the mortgage problem is not the answer. My understanding of Obama's plan is to help people who did NOT act irresponsibly but are underwater because of job loss or devaluation of property
[ Reply | Options ]Hmm, I wonder why. And I suppose you forgive those in government that actively encouraged and put policies in place for those bankers to give out the loans. But your forgiveness does not extend to those who are wealthier and more successful than you.
[ Reply | Options ]your post makes no sense. why don't you go for a walk or something. you're clearly overwrought
[ Reply | Options ]Guess you didn't take reading comprehension in school. You are willing to forgive homebuyers but not homelenders. I was extrapolating that you would also be willing to forgive the government (which played a HUGE role in all of this). From that, I deduced that you only blame those of whom you are jealous.
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You realize that they wouldn't have been able to buy the houses if people hadn't created the loan products they used, right?
[ Reply | Options ]Like poor and middle class people are so stupid they can't read and comprehend loan documents? How patronizing are you? There's plenty of blame to go around and much of it rests with those who bought homes (and consumer goods) they couldn't afford.
[ Reply | Options ]NP: I'm a real estate lawyer and, honestly, no one reads and comprehends their loan documents. I've represented very sophisticated finance types that didn't understand fundamental terms of the deal they negotiated with their mortgage broker until I explained it to them at closing. And poor and middle class people are more likely to have been manipulated by sleazy lenders and less likely to have had adequate representation (NY is one of the few states where borrowers are even represented by counsel at closing).
[ Reply | Options ]I can see not understanding the nitty gritty of when exactly they will begin ownership, etc., but how could someone overlook the PAYMENT PLAN? Isn't that one of the two main points of buying the house? The condition of the house, and how you're going to pay for it? You're not going to convince me that intelligent people go into a real estate purchase without a clear agreement and understanding of how they'll pay for it.
[ Reply | Options ]I think a lot of people taking out ARMs and interest-only loans fundamentally did not understand what they were buying (in terms of how much the interest rate could increase and when, and what the impact of that would be on their ability to pay). In the case of the client I mentioned above, he knew he had a interest-only ARM (and was probably one of the small percentage of people that were actually a good candidate for one), but his broker had misrepresented to him how much his interest rate could increase per year (vs. over the life of the loan) and he hadn't picked up the discrepancy when he review his commitment.
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Who's capping salaries? The only salaries being capped are those of the executives getting BAILED OUT by the taxpayers. If their companies were being run PROPERLY, they wouldn't need TAX MONEY to fix their mistakes. And guess what? Wealthy people are the ones who caused the problems of this country in the first place!
[ Reply | Options ]A lot of people contributed to the problem - some wealthy, some not. And a lot of people DIDN'T contribute to the problem - some wealthy, some not - but all of them are suffering because of it. I've never found "who should we blame?" to be the best response to a crisis situation. The first question should be "how do we fix this?" and the second question should be "how do we stop this from happening again?"
[ Reply | Options ]No, actually they are not. We had years of poor leadership and a war that was not necessary - and now the wealthy are going to get hit with higher taxes... ridiculous.
[ Reply | Options ]None of the leaders of this country ... political, business, or otherwise, are "not" wealthy.
[ Reply | Options ]NO, the wealthy are going to pay the same taxes they USED to pay before Bush gave you lots of money back that people with lower incomes did NOT get. So, it is fair.
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It's the same tax breakdown before Bush. As far as I can recall, it was still about capitalism and plenty of people making loads of money, etc. This notion that there are a finite amount of smart, resourcful people who can be leaders on Wall ST is simply stupid. Please, there will always be ppl making it there and the notion that capitalism is dead is dumb. Maybe it's dead as we knew it - thankfully.
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lol -- raising taxes on wealthy will stunt capitalism. Yes, that's why the US economy was humming along quite nicely under Bill Clinton, who did just that despite people like you claiming it was a bad idea.
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OP: yes the greedy ---- but that isn't a large percentage of the wealthy people that I know. That's why this is so frustrating.
[ Reply | Options ]Why is that "frustrating"? You are paying the same tax rate as rich people did 8 years ago. You got an 8 year tax cut -- and the country went down the tubes. Be grateful you are still in a high enough income to pay higher taxes.
[ Reply | Options ]^^^and fyi -- any person making lots of money complaining about losing $8,000/year IS greedy.
[ Reply | Options ]$8000? what are you talking about? It will be over half of our combined income... going to taxes.... that's over a million dollars. Would you be thrilled with half your salary going to taxes?
[ Reply | Options ]Newsflash. We make $100K/year and half our salary is already going to taxes. Where have you been, hon?
[ Reply | Options ]Guess what? More of our income than yours goes to taxes. And I am grateful to be living in the USA where people can make that much money. You are complaining because your aftertax income is 1 million dollars? Talk about greed. You should be saving tons of money, as we have, over the last few years. I'm happy to pay more in taxes.
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I worked hard and did without a lot of things in order to save for me and mine -- Not for you and yours, whoever you and yours might happen to be.
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Sounds rude but it's true. If we were allowed to keep more of our money we could continue to contribute to causes we believe in...but now, can't do it.
[ Reply | Options ]ITA! Let's ALL keep our money! We don't need public schools (if you can't afford private your kids are just a waste of skin anyway) ... firefighters ... police ... roads and bridges ... etc. Let's just turn this country into a vast land of Haves and Have-nots, like Mexico, where unless you're living on the street, you're forced to live behind iron gates with guards.
[ Reply | Options ]This is, or will be, what is happening. The public schools are in shambles and its graduates lag behind others in Westernized nations. The unions are responsible for the bloated salaries and benefits given to firefighters, police and teachers, who are rewarded despite widespread evidence on non performance, And in parts of the country where illegals are widespread and are given sanctuary, people indeed do live in gated communities.
[ Reply | Options ]Excuse me?? "Bloated" salaries for teachers, firefighters, and police? And you people on this board have the nerve to say that $1 MILLION dollars A YEAR is "middle class"?? Are you fucking KIDDING me? These people make less than $60K/year. They won't make a million dollars in their LIFETIME. Most teachers are making in the $42-55K range. Who the hell are you all to be calling that a "bloated" salary??
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THIS is a reasonable poster. I understand completely the blame/fault argument from the $250K+ crowd, but your silver lining so to speak is that at the end of the day you are still much financially better off than those of us who (a) are in the lower brackets and (b) who were not the subprimer/irresponsible crowd.
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Taxes aren't being levied as punishment and as part of the solution to get us out of deficit. Because the wealthy can afford to pay more than the poor... even though I am sure it pinches them too. And the fault (this is to posters above) is not of wealthy individuals but of a lot of people across the spectrum: poor homeowners who couldn't afford credit, complicit builder, mortgage brokers, opportunistic/complicit bankers, bad regulators, irresponsible politicians and monetary/fiscal policy makers. So don't try to blame one group, as does Obama, because that is simply not true.
[ Reply | Options ]I cast my vote for irresponsible politicians, namely Clinton, who ramped up Carter's program that EVERYONE is entitled to live in a home, despite the fact that they were not credit worthy. Banks and mortgage companies who did not lend to these people were penalized; in consequence, these institutions were forced in fiscally unsound lending practices.
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Then the worst thing to do, would have been to lower taxes/ increase govt spending/ and create a larger deficit. Which is what Bush did, right? Lowering taxes, increasing govt spending (through the war) are both inflationary measures and create a credit bubble. If thats what Bush got, he should have been CLAMPING down in the economy. So they are both, at least equally to blame. If you don't see that, you are not being any more impartial than a democrat.
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I am not trying to sound like a socialist here. I work in IB and I saw some really stupid, stupid deals being made - like giving loans to any old person who asked for them to build a luxury building in Podunk, or a shopping mall in Nowheresville. There was no rhyme or reason to granting these loans - just fees and greed. THat said, I believe the core issue is one of societal values. We see certain people "getting ahead/rich" and think, Why stop them? It could be me. We as a society let these things happen because we each wanted a chance to win the prize. If we didn't put so much value on material things and lifestyle, the desire to cheat would not be there.
[ Reply | Options ]Watch and learn. http://consumerist.com/5157192/hot-cartoon-makes-understanding-credit-crisis-simple-and-fun
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And you can't expect the middle class to suffer forever so that a tiny percentage of the population gets all of the wealth. Get over yourself.
[ Reply | Options ]there's no merit to being not wealthy. get out of it if you can and don't blame the problem on the wealthy.
[ Reply | Options ]there's no mert to being wealthy, either. a lot of it is luck (All of it if you are paris hilton or that ilk).
[ Reply | Options ]False. A lot of it is NOT luck except for the .001% of people who are born into it. Definitely some, but it's not at all the defining factor. Would you consider the successes of Bill Gates and Warren Buffet all due to luck? There's a lot of hard work, talent, and motivation involved. If you never try then you don't know what it's like.
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Get a grip The tax rates are only going back to where they were under the CLINTON administration. Remember those days it's when we had a FEDERAL SURPLUS. If my memory serves me right it was the only time in US history that the Federal Government had a surplus.
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