new post »
see more posts »
Dear Center school bullying/lobbying/racist parents: The PS199 community really wants you to give it up and get the hell out of our building. IS44 has space for your offspring. You don't want your precious DCs to share a building with the same-age IS44 DCs because they are mostly minority
118 replies [ Reply | Watch | Options ]-
We had a beautiful SMALL public school (under 500 students) in a building that is shared by a middle school (around 150 students). The neighborhood gets infultrated by developers who build high rise buildings (this includes DONALD TRUMP) but no school because they don't have to. So new families get lured in to lovely 3-4 bedroom apartments with a exquisite public school to boot...so here they come...and they are shocked and dismayed to find that the school is over crowded (wow- shouldn't there only be 12 kids in a kindergarten class??!) So they decide the logical solution is to get rid of the middle school to make room for them. And the best is they claim that WE are prejudice because we don't want the middle school to be moved a few blocks away with 2 other middle schools.
[ Reply | Options ]The truth is our beautiful community minded AND DIVERSE school is now overrun with high income earning families that no longer move out to the suburbs after 2 kids, so we are overcrowded, and can't bring in any more out-of cachement kids - so we are no longer diverse...just a sea of white kindergarteners.
[ Reply | Options ]The issue with moving the middle school is that conflicts arise among the different schools when multiple middle schools are housed together (in fact one of the three that were once housed there had to move elsewhere) - The middle school accepts kids from all over the city, as well as our elementary school, and is recognized for its high academic achievements. The new families feel it should go to make room for them, the families that have been around, (and have kids older than 1st grade) understand how vital it is to have good school options for middle school, and find it insulting that a beautiful school is literally being told "get out" by these new families. No interest in protecting a community, just looking out for themselves and their very special kids. It's despicable.
[ Reply | Options ]
No one thinks that there should be 12 kids in a Kindergarten class. This year there are 7 K classes with 24 kids in each (and 25 per class is the limit for public K across NYC)
[ Reply | Options ]^^and last year there were 6 K classes with approx 24 kids in each. The year before that there were 5 K classes... This year they had to add a first grade (27 kids in each), so there are 5 first grade classes instead of four. Next year there will have to be 6 first grade classes instead of 5. Do you get it? We're talking about having to open an extra 10 classrooms at maximum capacity over the next few years at this rate of growth.
[ Reply | Options ]
Wow, I am a Center School student. My mom just showed this to me. Wow. I can't believe people feel this way about us. I like it here. Our teachers are great, and I've made lots of friends. I never knew that 199 people don't want us here. I would never tell an old person in our building to get out if my family got bigger and needed more space. i don't think that is the right solution. I think grown ups should work together and help their kids.
[ Reply | Options ]
funny how you don't mind sms older kids. hey, I know. why don't you go move your spawn to is44 since racism is not your problem
[ Reply | Options ]FYI: SMS is NOT located in the same building as PS199. IS44 is a Middle School. It is not appropriate for 5 year olds to share recess with 13 year olds
[ Reply | Options ]I have kids at 199. I went to NYC public school. I don't have the expectation that my kids won't see any kids with black skin - and I expect them to have 26-30 kids in a class. I knew what I was getting into a long time ago. I just didn't expect the influx of racist - yes you, entitlist parents coming in with a "this is my child's school - it needs to be just like a private school" mentality. It's horrifying.
[ Reply | Options ]
Really ugly on your part. Will your child not go to middle school one day. I bet you have a kindergarten child. I bet you moved to the cachement to go to a great school. I bet you moved into one of the new buildings that didn't exist 2 years ago. And you were surprised to find that there are more than 20 kids in your child's class in A PUBLIC SCHOOL. So your answer is MAKE ROOM FOR ME NOW! Center School is an oasis for children in 5th - 8th (don't you think your child will be that age one day...or are you that short-sighted. They DO NOT SHARE recess space. There are 200 great kids in Center School. If they leave YOU WILL GET 200 more elementary school kids in that building. How will the school yard, cafeteria, library, gym and auditorium feel then ???? Even more crowded than it is now. THANK GOODNESS CENTER SCHOOL IS THERE YOU JERKS. This is not about racism. This is about education. It is known that housing multiple middle schools together causes all kinds of friction, and it is a safer environment for our children to be with elementary school kids as they develop during their middle school years. PS 191 does the same - any so do many other successful schools. So stop with your sense of entitlement and start a charter school. Your over-crowding us AND YOU ARE UNWELCOME in what was once an incredible school environment that was very pro-community...before our community included the likes of you.
[ Reply | Options ]The days of Center in our building are numbered: we have the numbers now 600+ families against 150 families
[ Reply | Options ]whether that is true or not, I cannot see how that is really helpful to you. so you will get 200 nclb kids instead of 200 ms kids who were selected through a process for the program. so the kids will be younger, but maybe rowdier and tougher
[ Reply | Options ]Ohhh, the, not so veiled, racist remark - what would you rather have OUR DCs or those rowdy NCLB (Black/Hispanic)DCs? Shame on you, racist woman
[ Reply | Options ]Don't know who is talking about rowdier & tougher kids -that was racist, and wasn't me. I don't want to see the school become 800 kids total. When there were 4 kindergarten classes, they were highly diverse - and every teacher knew every kid in the grade, and all the kids knew each other by the time they got to 5th grade. That's now gone. Seven classes in one grade is beyond ridiculouse. We obviously need another school - how about a charter school started by all these new families with multiple kids coming in. This is the upper west side, and parents are the ones who have made the school what it is today. Keep up the tradition and get another school going.
[ Reply | Options ]
And the people you are calling bullies, lobbiests and racists are the very people who built PS 199 AND Center School into the much-desired school they each are today BEFORE YOU ARRIVED. How dare you decide where the Center School should be housed - GO ELSEWHERE or start your own school - so entitlist - that is why we are enraged. We are striving to safe our community from people like you.
[ Reply | Options ]-
Center School administration is against it because it is known and has historically been the case that middle school kids will be infighting - it's a territory thing.
[ Reply | Options ]There are 200 center school kids in the building now. I don't understand what the thinking is - bring in 200 elementary school kids and really over-crowd the building??? It wasn't constructed to house 800 elementary school kids. The gym, auditorium, cafeteria, library can't handle that. Center school occupies space without interfering.
[ Reply | Options ]
call it racist if you will, but I am a ps87 parent and all for diversity. but i do worry about dc going to delta possibly one day and being one of the more priveleged kids in a MS that shares a building with a non selective MS. hear about kids getting into fights and incidents. MS is a rough age. would not want my ms kid thrown in a school with relatively poorer ms kids
[ Reply | Options ]-
no recent incidents as far as I know because there are only 2 schools there - computer & IS 44. They isolate the schools from one another. I can't speak for the schools, because I'm not there, but that is one thing you here again and again about middle schools - small works, and a protective environment is important. And please don't take this as a racist discussion. I would not be on the UWS for 20 years if I were a racist. really.
[ Reply | Options ]-
Please - how can you live in NYC without facing the diversity that it does and should have?
[ Reply | Options ]ps199 ain't so diverse these days. the white moms want to make sure they stay that way and get no exposure to the shall we say more diverse kids. meanwhile they cry racism to get their way. ironic as hell.
[ Reply | Options ]Oh so ugly. It has definitely come through in this discussion...I find it ugly - and only solidifies to me that the new people coming in are really meant for private school so they have more control over their kids' environments. Ugh i could cry.
[ Reply | Options ]-
OK - sick and tired at that point last night...there doesn't seem like there's much that can be done with the prejudice that's entering the school. But it's there. A parent considering coming into the school wanted to know why Katy Rosen supports a program for special needs kids when we need space for the newcomers. That's how bad it is - these people want to get everyone else out - big kids, disabled kids, kids of color, slow learners - get them all out & make way for the kids of the privileged. I could cry because I chose to live on the west side for a reason - if i had that mentality, I would have moved to the east side or the suburbs a long time ago. This is not what the west side has traditionally been about - but it's here now and it's ugly. I can cry or get really really angry. And angry doesn't work, because these newcomers are sensitive it seems - accusing pro-Center school families of being bullies.
[ Reply | Options ]
-
Don't believe everything you hear. Delta and Core kids actually get along just fine.
[ Reply | Options ]There's always been tension between Delta and the other programs in the building. White boys, especially small white boys, get bullied and occasionally mugged. Kids are not allowed into schoolyard at lunch to reduce incidents. Kids accompany each other to bathroom to avoid getting bullied/ harrassed. News flash: there is a big difference between diversity inside a program (good) and two separate programs, one largely white and relatively privileged and the other, largely black and brown and relatively disadvantaged (bad, breeding ground for resentment and strife). Let me repeat: diversity is good. Two "armed" camps is bad.
[ Reply | Options ]My dc just started at Delta. Kids are allowed into the schoolyard at lunch, and to the bathroom by themselves. MS 54 is one school, and we all get along just fine.
[ Reply | Options ]Are you aware of any real incidents at Delta? Does your child feel safe? We're thinking about applying soon.
[ Reply | Options ]-
And I know many kids who were harassed, beaten up and threatened - mostly white boys. It's even worse for the black kids who attend Delta. They get the whole "uncle tom" harrassment from the kids in the other programs.
[ Reply | Options ]-
I am also a parent of a Delta 6th grader. Mine has played football in the yard every day with a group of kids about half Delta half Core. Two-hand touch with mixed teams they choose themselves. Sounds pretty good to me. My child is very happy. I had another child there some years ago. The same garbage gossip went around then. We have known of no such "incidents" - just rumblings that, frankly, stink of racism.
[ Reply | Options ]
-
-
-
So PS199 is overcrowded now then? Ah, we were zoning to this one. Private it is then.
[ Reply | Options ]-
it is overcrowded. no one is exaggerating about that. everyone agrees on one thing - the school is overcrowded, and there needs to be more options for public school on the upper west side.
[ Reply | Options ]np - There are many public schools on the UWS. It's just that white middle class families don't want their kids at many of these schools.
[ Reply | Options ]That's not how I feel at all. I am appalled by how non-diverse the school has become, it's really awful - because the beauty of 199 has always been the mix of families...my kids have had a wonderful experience there because their friends are from everywhere in the city as well as different countries.
[ Reply | Options ]
Nine years ago, when dc was applying for K, 199 didn't take any applications from those outside of the catchment (we live uptown in D3). So it was closed even then.
[ Reply | Options ]-
That might have been because there were 3-4 kindergarten classes, filled from within cachement plus no child left behind kids...there has always been kids from in and out of the neighborhood - which is what has been great about the school. We are so overcrowded with neighborhood kids because of numerous high-rise buildings that have gone up that did not exist 4 years ago. It's really the city we should be screaming at -not one another. They took no responsibilty for all this over-development.
[ Reply | Options ]most of the people living in the trump buildings are either single without kids or send their kids to private school. this big push about the buildings being there causing all this trouble is just bs. the majority of kids come from the lincoln towers
[ Reply | Options ]You know, that has proven to not be the case. The school has the numbers - and it is clear that there are a big number coming in from Trump's multiple buildings. (Just look at your kids' class list when it gets published). The fact is that Trump had an agreement with the city to build a school after the 6th building went up (yes, that's 6) - but he sold the rights to the last building (who said he's not smart?) so the school didn't have to get built. Truth.
[ Reply | Options ]-
funny - that's what 199 parents were told years ago, to appease us. Now we have classes that are 50% trump kids. Wait for the school directory to come out & count yourself.
[ Reply | Options ]I just counted the numbers in last year's PS199 directory. There were about 15% of the families with the 10069 zip code of the trump buildings last year. The school has grown much larger this year. There are now 7 Kindergarten classes instead of 6 last year, and 5 the year before last. Not sure what the percentages will be this year, or where the extra kids are coming from.
[ Reply | Options ]15% of roughly 500 last year is 75? - that's more than 2 classes worth of kids - what am I not understanding? Don't forget we now have the new west end & 70th building that is becoming occupied. And the monstrosity on Amsterdam that used to be the red cross building will be 48 stories (!!!!) - 72nd & Bdwy is happening too - - many many more coming in. Developers & real estate agents are advertising that the buiidings are in our cachement. Also, don't miscalculate - families have numerous kids, not just 2 anymore...
[ Reply | Options ]75 kids over 6 grades? so the buildings have contributed maybe 12 kids per year. if there are 6-7 classes per grade, that is 2 kids per class. hardly something to get all excited about.
[ Reply | Options ]I was using last year's directory, so there were 6 Kindergartens, 4 first grade classes, 4 second grades, 4 third grades, 3 fourth grades, and 3 fifth grades last year, so your math does not work out. Plus, I know of several older grade kids who used to live in Trump, that now moved out of zone. I re-did the math, just counting those in K last year who lived in Trump, and it's almost one full class (out of 6 K classes last year)
[ Reply | Options ]
Actually it was a little less than 15%, I had rounded up. I do know of a few people that rented in Trump for a year or two to send their kids to 199, and then they moved out of the zone. I decided to count just the Kindergarten students from last year living in the 10069 zip and it's about 17%.
[ Reply | Options ]^^ and about 38% of the 199 students in last year's directory live outside of the zone - most of these in grades above K.
[ Reply | Options ]A school's success relies on parent involvement AND children not being lost in the shuffle. Seems to me that 7 kindergarten classes mean that kids can be there without being recognized - not just because of class size, but because there aren't enough adults around who know them. Honestly, when there were 4 k classes, every teacher knew every child in that grade. That's what's sad & disturbing...your child will have little to no relationship with the adult staff, and will not get to know every kid in their grade. It's not about space as much as it is about visibility -especially as the kids get older (middle school). It's about belonging.
[ Reply | Options ]Maybe it should just be go-forward. Then any decision to move would be made with the knowledge that you're changing schools too. You know 199 was a bad school a dozen years ago, until a new principal came in & attracted neighborhood families, the change came slowly, but with the community working together - it became a really good school. A lot of those families are still around, some with kids in Center school. That's where the fight comes from - there was much invested in making 199 great, a lot of credit goes to the principal before Carol Stock and the families who took a risk sending their kids there.
[ Reply | Options ]I have exposure to what goes on. I know that Carol Stock knew all of the kids at the school in past years, but I'm sure that the other K teachers did not know my child. Maybe it will be more difficult for the school administrators & guidance counselor to get to know every child as the school grows. But the kids that are in trouble are definitely known by the administrators.
[ Reply | Options ]I think this point has been brought up at meetings in the past (not allowing kids who move out of zone), but I had heard that it's not that easy to change a city-wide policy like this one. There are many over-crowded schools in D2 (PS290, PS234, PS89, maybe others). What is being done in these schools? Developers should be held accountable for creating new seats in schools as they build residential buildings.
[ Reply | Options ]
-
-
Why don't you really do your homework and find out from your city council representatives that there IS a site for a school in the Trump complex, only the DOE has been dragging its heels on making them develop it. Stop sniping at each other and converge on Joel Klein and Bloomberg to build that school already to serve the overcrowded southern end of the neighborhood.
[ Reply | Options ]Really - I find that interesting (although I still question whether it's true). I think the incoming parents with 3+ kids should fight that fight. They would have us helping them if they weren't attacking us on Center School - so now that we're divided, we are not being an effective force all together... conspiracy?
[ Reply | Options ]