UrbanBaby - If you were to revamp the G&T scoring sy...

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If you were to revamp the G&T scoring system for next year, what would you do? Remove the Bracken? Add something else? Change the test environment?
28 replies
- NY Schools
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06.17.08, 06:37 AM [ Flag ]
- Given the sheer # of children to be tested, I don't think there is any way to use the Stanford Binet (although it's a better measurement of giftedness). I don't think there would even be enough qualified SB testers, even if you granted fee waivers to those who could not afford the testing. I would drop the Bracken, use the OLSAT and require each citywide to do an onsite evaluation for qualifiers at 98% or higher. I would give the district programs freedom to decide whether to do an onsite for their programs, but wouldn't require it. District programs with no onsite would be filled by score -- RAW Scores, not percentiles/lotteries.
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  06.17.08, 06:45 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]
  - I agree about the raw scores to an extent...I think younger kids would lose out in general, though.
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    06.17.08, 06:47 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]
    - Why do you think so?
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      06.17.08, 06:48 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]
      - Wouldn't one expect younger DCs to score lower than older DCs? (or am I misunderstanding raw scores?)
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        06.17.08, 06:49 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]
        
        But didn't they use raw scores last year?
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        06.17.08, 06:51 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]
        
        I have no clue...interesting that they changed it.
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        06.17.08, 06:52 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]
        
        no. Last year they used the normed scores. They just didn't convert them to percentages.
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        06.17.08, 06:55 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]
        
        What are normed scores?
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        06.17.08, 06:57 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]
        
        The scores are adjusted to the age of the child.
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        06.17.08, 06:58 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]
        
        Getting 38 right if you are 48 months old means a lot more than if you are 59 months old.
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        06.17.08, 07:00 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]
        
        No. The scores were normed for age.
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        06.17.08, 06:58 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]
  - you can't do raw scores. The test doesn't work that way.
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    06.17.08, 06:54 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]
    - OR: I misspoke. I actually meant scaled scores
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      06.17.08, 06:59 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]
  - dude, you have to use percentiles or at least scaled scores. You cannot use raw scores because at that young age. All that said I think the city is on the right track. Keep the OLSAT/BRSA combo. Just create more seats for the 97+ crowd. How about a few new citywide schools outside Manhattan?
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    06.17.08, 06:57 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]
    - OR here: Yes, I actually meant to use "scaled" scores in my post, but instead used raw scores. You are right. Also agree about creating a selective G&T for each borough.
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      06.17.08, 06:58 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]
- my problem isnt' with testing. it's the disorganized programs servicing the population. not enough programs and seats to service the children.
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  06.17.08, 08:02 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]
  - Wait. Is there anybody who ranked all options and did not get a spot at all?
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    06.17.08, 08:14 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]
- Definitely replace the Bracken--It is too darn easy and that is the reason there were so many darn 99s--it doubled the pool of the 99s by elevating the 98s
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  06.17.08, 08:05 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]
  - I don't think so. It was only worth 25%.
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    06.17.08, 09:02 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]
- Next year they will also know how to set people's expectations appropriately. All scores under 99 will know they will not get citywide or top district programs that offer only one class.
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  06.17.08, 08:05 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]
  - oh, boy. You are one very sensitive person, are you not? Every year could be a different story depending on how many kids apply etc. etc.
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    06.17.08, 08:15 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]
- #1 thing I would do is add a citiwide G&T in Brooklyn. The old DOE building on COurt Street could be a great location. Very easy access for Brooklyn or lower Manhattan and even some parts of Queens. Obviously this is not an immediate solution but I just wanted to write this down.
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  06.17.08, 08:12 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]
- Start testing earlier.
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  06.17.08, 08:52 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]
  - But they wanted to do the testing when every child was at least 4 yrs old.
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    06.17.08, 09:03 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]
    - I know thats what they wanted, but you can test 11/12ths of the kids in November and the rest in December.
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      06.17.08, 09:05 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]
  - np: Does anyone on here know test methodology well enough to say if this is viable? Could they test the kids with birthdays before October prior to January and then come January, they would only have the fall kids to test... That would help speed up everything, no?
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    06.17.08, 09:03 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]
    - np again: My inderstanding is that the test is scaled in three month blocks. That is why I said Oct/Nov/Dec kids after January.
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      06.17.08, 09:05 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]
- G&T teacher here: I would not have testing until children are in the 2nd grade and the program start at 3rd grade
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  06.17.08, 09:06 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]

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Posted June 5, 2008 (50 replies)

If you were to revamp the G&T scoring system for next year, what would you do? Remove the Bracken? Add something else? Change the test environment?

I agree about the raw scores to an extent...I think younger kids would lose out in general, though.

Why do you think so?

Wouldn't one expect younger DCs to score lower than older DCs? (or am I misunderstanding raw scores?)

But didn't they use raw scores last year?

I have no clue...interesting that they changed it.

no. Last year they used the normed scores. They just didn't convert them to percentages.

What are normed scores?

The scores are adjusted to the age of the child.

Getting 38 right if you are 48 months old means a lot more than if you are 59 months old.

No. The scores were normed for age.

you can't do raw scores. The test doesn't work that way.

OR: I misspoke. I actually meant scaled scores

dude, you have to use percentiles or at least scaled scores. You cannot use raw scores because at that young age. All that said I think the city is on the right track. Keep the OLSAT/BRSA combo. Just create more seats for the 97+ crowd. How about a few new citywide schools outside Manhattan?

OR here: Yes, I actually meant to use "scaled" scores in my post, but instead used raw scores. You are right. Also agree about creating a selective G&T for each borough.

my problem isnt' with testing. it's the disorganized programs servicing the population. not enough programs and seats to service the children.

Wait. Is there anybody who ranked all options and did not get a spot at all?

Definitely replace the Bracken--It is too darn easy and that is the reason there were so many darn 99s--it doubled the pool of the 99s by elevating the 98s

I don't think so. It was only worth 25%.

Next year they will also know how to set people's expectations appropriately. All scores under 99 will know they will not get citywide or top district programs that offer only one class.

oh, boy. You are one very sensitive person, are you not? Every year could be a different story depending on how many kids apply etc. etc.

#1 thing I would do is add a citiwide G&T in Brooklyn. The old DOE building on COurt Street could be a great location. Very easy access for Brooklyn or lower Manhattan and even some parts of Queens. Obviously this is not an immediate solution but I just wanted to write this down.

Start testing earlier.

But they wanted to do the testing when every child was at least 4 yrs old.

I know thats what they wanted, but you can test 11/12ths of the kids in November and the rest in December.

np: Does anyone on here know test methodology well enough to say if this is viable? Could they test the kids with birthdays before October prior to January and then come January, they would only have the fall kids to test... That would help speed up everything, no?

np again: My inderstanding is that the test is scaled in three month blocks. That is why I said Oct/Nov/Dec kids after January.

G&T teacher here: I would not have testing until children are in the 2nd grade and the program start at 3rd grade

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