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  • [-]What are the best organic diapers to buy? Seventh Generation? Their wipes do not smell good.

    9 replies [ Reply | Watch | Options ]
    07.02.09, 06:12 PM [ Flag ]
    • I love 7th gen wipes and also used their diapers. Nature Boy and Girl diapers are good, too.

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      07.02.09, 06:14 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
    • I don't get it....what's the difference between organic and regular diapers?

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      07.02.09, 06:51 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
    • 7th generation. their wipes didn't smell like anything. i didn't want that pampers/huggies artificial stuff on my baby's butt. no way. so what if it was more expensive. it is my dear, sweet child.

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      07.02.09, 07:27 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
    • I hate 7th generation ones so much I didn't finish the pack, every single one leaked. Whole foods brand ones are ok. Honestly though, I love my cloth diapers and they are so much better for the environment. The "organic" diaper thing is kind of a scam, they are the exact same as pampers except for the non-chlorinated bleach.

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      07.02.09, 07:31 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
      • Chlorine is a big deal though as it's been associated with cancer--and your kid is wearing diapers nearly 24 hours a day for a few years. Don't know that I had more than a few leaks in 2.2 years of using 7th gen diapers, fwiw.

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        07.02.09, 07:41 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
        • well, there are other diapers without the clorine, did you know that 7th generation actually dyes their diapers that brown color? They bleach them then dye them and ugly brown! I'm not supper worried because my kid rarely wears disposables anyway. They're only for trips.

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          07.02.09, 07:44 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
    • Huggies just introduced an organic line of diapers, although don't know anyone who's used yet.

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      07.02.09, 07:37 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
      • We have been using 7th Gen since ds was born and they have been outstanding. We also have tried a pack or two of the Whole Foods diapers, no complaints either. Don't know if they are organic, but we use Lansinoh wipes and ds has not (knock on wood) had a diaper rash in 16 mos.

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        07.02.09, 08:36 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
  • [-]I find it terribly sad that just because somebody expresses their opinion that one parent should stay at home to raise a child that it's labeled as "uncivilized." I feel for your children. Funny how nobody answers the question about WHY they had kids...not a single reply to that. :-(

    149 replies [ Reply | Watch | Options ]
    07.01.09, 03:21 PM [ Flagged ]
    • i had kids out of pure ego.

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      07.01.09, 03:23 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
    • Nobody is saying being a SAHM is uncivilized. They're responding to the tone of the replies, which doesn't allow for a differing POV.

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      07.01.09, 03:24 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
    • You really have a reading comprehension problem, don't you? The post said "the way you express your opinions is uncivilized" which is absolutely, 100% true. You're a bull in a china shop and you ruin any discussion that's already going on by your relentless, repetitive attacks and self-righteous me me me attitude. There are plenty of SAHMS on this board, yours truly included, who can manage to discuss the topic in a decent way without venom and personal attacks. If you really cared about your "opinions" you'd try it.

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      07.01.09, 03:35 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
    • Your tone, which is laced with anger and hostility, is what's putting people off an what people see as uncivilized, not the viewpoint you expressed in this post. And why do you care so much about spouting this viewpoint? You seem defensive about your own choices, to top it off. To each their own.

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      07.01.09, 03:40 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
      • Nope. No hostility or anger and if you perceive it that way then that's YOUR problem not mine. I'm totally happy with MY choices, are you with yours? Seems to me the people who blatatly attack me & just have to have my posts "removed by moderator" (boohoo) are the ones thare angry, hostile, and can't handle others' opinions. I'm not going to be "nice-nice" on this board just to spare other people's feelings. I'm going to say what I want in a manner that I want. If you don't like it then don't respond. Thanks! ;-)

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        07.01.09, 03:46 PM [ Flagged | link to this post ]
        • you are totally right.

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          07.01.09, 03:49 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
        • You really do have some kind of psycho-social disorder. It's like someone going into a restaurant where everyone is having a good time and then screaming at the top of your lungs...and then being surprised when people are annoyed and ask you to leave the restaurant. The web is only a "free" space in the sense that it's self-regulated or community-regulated. You don't seem to understand the concept of social give and take. And sorry--you can keep claiming that it's everyone's problem but yours and everyone else here is angry, hostile, crazy, etc. but after a while you just sound like the schizo guy who's insisting that there are evil purple monsters in the room and that everyone who can't seem them must be crazy. Anyway--off to dinner. Good ...

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          07.01.09, 03:55 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
        • You call people wacko. You call people stupid. How is that not angry and hostile?

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          07.01.09, 03:55 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
          • Ummm....the people I call "wacko" are the ones that jump on me for my opinions. Everybody is entitled to them even if they don't agree with the majority. For the record, I never name-called until I was called a "c***". And no, I'm not harping on that, but if that's how this board is then so be it. I can play with the rest of 'em. ;-)

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            07.01.09, 05:17 PM [ Flagged | link to this post ]
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              07.01.09, 05:26 PM [ | ]
              • Yawn....I've never had a yeast infection in my life, but thanks anyway. :-) ICK!

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                07.01.09, 05:27 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
                • p.s. The fact that that's your ONLY response makes me see that I'm right. End of story. You lose. Buh-byyyyeeee....

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                  07.01.09, 05:28 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
            • So you're defending calling people wacko? Have you not noticed that everyone on this board is united in agreement that you are rude and hostile. How is that everyone else is the one with a problem, not you?

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              07.01.09, 05:30 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
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                07.01.09, 05:31 PM [ | ]
                • Jenny: they're not defending you. They may be expressing similar opinions but that is worlds different from defending your approach.

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                  07.01.09, 05:32 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
                  • Whatever. It's really weird to me that they have such strong opinions about WOHM/SAHM. Like they're so oblivious that they they can't imagine a situation where the alternative option is the best for a family.

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                    07.01.09, 05:43 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
                  • Uhh....Dopey, that wasn't me who said that a few SAHMs defend me. (eyeroll) I always sign my posts in one way or another so you know it's me. ;-) 867-5309 Girl And do you actually think I care who's united in what against me? If you think I'm rude & hostile that's YOUR problem!

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                    07.01.09, 06:42 PM [ Flagged | link to this post ]
            • I read your past topic and you immediately insulted people. You're not innocent.

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              07.01.09, 10:16 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
    • Have you ever heard the expression "you catch more flies with honey than with vinegar"? Your tone makes people shut out everything that you say. You're actually doing your cause more harm than good. You'll be used as an example of SAHM and give ammunition to people who are against that option.

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      07.01.09, 03:49 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
      • the best way to deal with this is not to respond to her or just agree with her.

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        07.01.09, 03:56 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
      • this is true. i'm a SAHM and now that i mention that in another thread or give my (usually very polite) opinion about SAH i get labeled as "jenny" right away. sad because that's what she's done, but also sad because the anti-SAHM find it so easy to dismiss a SAHM's opinion.

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        07.01.09, 04:07 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
      • Guess what? I'm not trying to "catch flies." I'm not here to make friends, I'm here to read and state my opinions in any manner that I choose. If you don't like it then ignore me. Thanks! ;-)

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        07.01.09, 05:18 PM [ Flagged | link to this post ]
    • WHY DO YOU PEOPLE KEEP RESPONDING? IGNORE THE TROLL.

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      07.01.09, 03:56 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
    • Maybe because it is a stupid question. And expressing that it was the right thing for your family is very different from making a blanket statement for all families. Don't know what the uncivilized reference is - didn't see that post.

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      07.01.09, 04:03 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
    • I don't really care what people think about the fact that I SAH. I do it because I want to and people can call me whatever they want but I know I am doing the very best thing. I think the people that defend the option to work are those who feel the need to defend themselves so they bash those who SAH to cover for their own insecurities because they don't spend any time with their kids.

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      07.01.09, 04:33 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
      • oh blah blah blah. You sound just like the obnoxious EBFers the other day. It's fine--do whatever you want but continually and smugly trumpeting what a great mother you are and how your way is the best and only way only makes us long for the day that your kid gets his first failing report card or gets nabbed with a trunkful of marijuana. There is no magic bullet, OK?

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        07.01.09, 04:57 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
        • ITTTTA

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          07.01.09, 05:02 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
        • What an asinine statement, "trunkful of marijuana". Sorry, sweetie, but the ones that'll have kids in juvenile hall are for drug charges are the ones that don't keep an eye on their teens after school because they're busying being "power women" at their jobs. And just because somebody states that they think SAHMs are better than WOHMs doesn't make them "smug" but if you perceive it that way, it's YOUR problem. But you know what....I AM pretty darn smug - LOL! I'll take that as a compliment. BTW: I'm not the one who made the above comment that you're so pissy about, but I agree with it 100%. ;-) Luv, 867-5309 Girl

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          07.01.09, 05:22 PM [ Flagged | link to this post ]
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            07.01.09, 05:23 PM [ | ]
      • OTOH, the fact that you defend your option as "the very best thing" is to cover your insecurity that you have no career or financial worth whatsoever. . .

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        07.01.09, 05:03 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
        • Uhhh...I don't know what her career was or if she had one, but I know that I did and still have a substantial financial worth from the money I made while working. We SAHMs are not insecure about anything (at least I'M not) but you WOHMs come here & attack SAHMs because you know darn well that you're doing a disservice to your child. ;-)

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          07.01.09, 05:23 PM [ Flagged | link to this post ]
          • I didn't realize McDonald's had upped it's wages

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            07.01.09, 05:26 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
            • It wasn't working in the McDonald's--it was the bj's behind the McDonalds that really cemented her "substantial financial worth." I think she has $30 or $40 left from those salad days...

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              07.01.09, 05:30 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
      • OMG! I soooo agree! You rock. ;-) Luv, 867-5309 Girl p.s. This is to the SHM above.

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        07.01.09, 05:20 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
      • Can't the reverse be said of WOH? I don't care what people think about the fact that I WOH. I do it because it's right for me and I think that the people who attack WOH are insecure. With the exception of your last sentence, I think the sentiment works all around.

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        07.02.09, 06:19 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]
      • Plenty of WOHMs (myself included) jump to SAHMs' defense when a random idiot bashes SAHMs. I wish more SAHMs would extend the same courtesy when the idiot posts here.

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        07.02.09, 06:21 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]
    • I happen to feel that up to the elementary grades, one parent should not work FT. If the other parent must work it should only be PT. The years go by so quickly and young babies/children benefit in terms of security and a sense of well being when there is parental involvement on a large scale in their lives. I am NOT jenny and disagree with her mean tactics, but want to express in another way that as a parent it is the best gift we can give our young children ie to make THEM the priority for these important years. My kids are in middle school and I am back PT; I wouldn't have wanted to not be there for them and whatever the years ahead may bring I have the peace of mind that I did what was right for my kids, in my own judgement.

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      07.01.09, 04:33 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
      • which is totally FINE!!! I was lucky enough to SAH and I loved it, but I know it is not right for everyone, temperamentally, financially, career-wise. I have never thought "wow--so-and-so is a sh*tty parent because she didn't SAH." I knew a lot of moms who were much happier and more stable after returning to work at least part-time if not full-time. And frankly a lot of the WOHM's that I know are the ones with the work-hard-play-hard attitude and energy--I'd say that they give 100% at work and 100% to their kids (and like 0% to actual sleep or leisure!)

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        07.01.09, 04:38 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
        • Sure, the MOMS were happier and stable, but what about the CHILD, the one that's the most important? How come you selfish people only talk about me, me, me? ICK!

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          07.01.09, 05:25 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
          • That's classic. Sweetie, all you EVER talk about is you, you, you! : ) Have you ever actually posted a question, a comment, shared an idea about your DD or actual parenting? No--it's all about you...

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            07.01.09, 05:44 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
            • Yes, actually, I've posted question and comments many times. Just do a search on "Jenny" and you'll see. Ummm...Dumb-ass, when I said that all you do is talk about "Me, me, me" I didn't mean literally "ME" as in Jenny. I meant that you are very selfish and only think of yourselves instead of your child. Good god, how dumb are you NYers? Seriously. UGH!

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              07.01.09, 08:37 PM [ Flagged | link to this post ]
      • Blah blah blah your opinion. Some people have family around to help with young children, or great hired caretakers or daycare, and their kids turn out fine. Blah blah blah.

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        07.01.09, 04:59 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
      • For you, sure. But NOT for everyone. Having two working parents is how some parents prioritize their children. They may have different values than you, but that does not mean that they are not involved in their children's lives and are not giving their children a sense of security.

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        07.01.09, 05:06 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
      • WOHM here. Ignore the bashers. I think the way you expressed it is fine. Everyone's opinion is differnet. There are some that may say that you must be there for your DCs even in middle school, and that what you're doing means that you're not there for them in their teenage years. The variations on theme are endless. In the end I think we all just try our best to do what's best for our families.

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        07.02.09, 06:24 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]
    • People have kids because: 1. What else would you do with your life? 2. To care for them in their old age (yeah, lots of luck with that). 3. And for the "unconditional love".

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      07.01.09, 04:59 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
      • What else would you do with your life? That's a pathetic response.

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        07.01.09, 05:26 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
        • np- Not really. Having kids has long been a societal expectation. You grow up, you get married, wait a few years, have kids.

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          07.01.09, 05:32 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
          • That's a stupid thing to say. Who cares about "societal expectations"? If society were jumping off a cliff, you would too? Wow, talk about a follower. Nobody should do something just because they THINK society expects it of them. That's a total disservice to the child/ren that you bring into this world. How awful!

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            07.01.09, 08:38 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
            • OK idiot, did you go to college? Get a job? Get married? Those are all societal expectations. WHY ARE YOU SUCH A SHEEP

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              07.01.09, 09:54 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
              • Why are you the "sheep" - Miss Follower? Going to college and getting married ARE societal expectatation and you don't have to do either one of them, Idiot. Having a job is something people HAVE to do to earn a living and not live on the streets. God, NYers are truly dumb.

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                07.02.09, 06:17 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]
      • i'll add a #4 to that. i think there's a biological imperative we can't even sense that urges us to replace both parents for future survival. we can talk about all that other stuff, but when it comes down to it there are thousands of years of evolution propelling us to reproduce.

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        07.01.09, 05:48 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
        • A "biological imperative"...(eyeroll). OH brother! Another stupid reason. Why don't I see any responses like, "Because I love children" and "I wanted to be a mother"? UGH!

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          07.01.09, 08:41 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
          • you're brain dead. see the number in front of that? 4? there's ABSOLUTELY a biological imperative to reproduce...if you can get your head out of your 21st century arse and educate yourself about evolution, you'd understand. first, you have to want to be a mother or father. then you have to want to love that child more than you love yourself. etc. etc. if you think all of your reproductive choices are conscious ones you're a bigger idiot than you appear.

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            07.02.09, 02:59 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
            • Reproduction ISN'T a conscious choice? OMG! LOL! What kind of animal are you, seriously? Are you a friggin' ape or something? Humans can make conscious decisions, animals can't. I guess we know where you stand. UGH!

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              07.02.09, 03:47 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
              • you really are brain dead, i was right.

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                07.02.09, 04:01 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
                • It's obvious who the brain-dead one is. The idiot who actually thinks that humans don't consciously reproduce. LOLOLOLOLOL!!! ;-)

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                  07.02.09, 04:05 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
                  • clearly not all i wrote, but based on your emoticon it's not surprising that your reaction is THAT ignorant. how is it that you manage to walk upright? you're dismissed.

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                    07.02.09, 04:18 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
    • I have a wart on my earlobe.

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      07.01.09, 05:25 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
    • let me rant for a minute about posting on UB. once you make a comment about "you" or "your", it's not a comment about the issue, it's an insult to the reader. you originally had a good point, that there is a valid argument for having a parent stay at home. but once you say "i feel sorry for your children", you are point is completely set aside. and then to end with that little sarcasm...you hijacked your own post and lost the opportunity to have a really good discussion about the merits of having a sahp.

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      07.01.09, 08:19 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
      • That's YOUR opinion, not mine. If I wanna state that I feel sorry for somebody's child I can state that, it's my business. If the reader doesn't like it that's just tough crap. They don't have to respond or read anything else that I have to say. ;-)

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        07.01.09, 08:40 PM [ Flagged | link to this post ]
        • No, it's not "just tough crap". You write it, you own it, and people are free to call you on your self-righteous tone. If you want to be free from negative responses, then don't post. Personally, I think you thrive on all the negative attention.

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          07.02.09, 09:24 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]
      • ITA

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        07.01.09, 10:16 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
      • ITA

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        07.02.09, 06:12 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]
    • Okay, I'm laughing my butt off because all of the comments that were "removed by moderator" this time, weren't mine! LOL! Luv, 867-5309 Girl ;-)

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      07.02.09, 06:22 AM [ Flagged | link to this post ]
    • So let me get this straight "Jenny"; you are supposed to be able to say anything you want, any way you want--including in ways that are almost universally viewed as insulting, provocative, and self-righteous even by those who fundementally agree with you--, but it is "terribly sad" if others form opinions about how you choose to express yourself that differ from you own rose-colored perception of yourself. To put it crudely, it sounds like you want everyone to tell you that both your shit and your Quiche Lorraine smell like petunias.

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      07.02.09, 09:21 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]
      • ~giggles~. ITA! She can't take criticism but boy can she dish it out, insult, name-call, and disrespect.

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        07.02.09, 09:25 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]
      • I can take criticism just fine, or else I wouldn't be here. The fact that you criticize me for advocating SAHMs is pretty pathetic though. And yes, I can say anything I want, in any manner that I want. Do you think I give a crap that what I say is viewed "universally"? Besides, that's YOUR opinion anyway. YOU don't know how everybody views what I have to say (are you a friggin mind-reader, Dumb-ass). As for me being self-righteous, that's your opinion again. And yes, it is terribly sad that somebody who doesn't agree with people neglecting their kids is "uncivilized". Now you can bite me. Luv, 867-5309 Girl ;-)

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        07.02.09, 02:57 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
    • You seriously need to LOG OFF of UrbanBaby.com and start associating with people face to face. You are unhinged. Relax, sweetheart. Take your kid to the park or whatever it is you SAHM's do.

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      07.02.09, 01:40 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
      • Don't you people have anything new to say? Seriously. FYI: We just got home from a visit with great-grandma and a pool party where we "associated" face to face (eyeroll). I think the only ones that need to relax are the NY freaks that don't get outta the house enough cause your weather is constantly so crappy. Now, why don't you get back to work and don't worry about your kid sitting in that daycare where he/she could drown in a water bucket because some minimum wage earner doesn't care enough to pay attention to your kid...or whatever it is you WOHMs do. ;-)

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        07.02.09, 02:59 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
        • Andrea Yates drowned her 5 children. But thank goodness she was a stay at home mom. She's a real hero.

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          07.02.09, 03:13 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
          • Uhhh....Stupid, she had PPD and was told not to have any more children. Her asshole of a husband is the one who wanted her to have more. They were "god-fearing" people (what a joke!) I'm not surprised they were holy rollers. ICK! p.s. I know you're just grasping for straws because you couldn't handle the water bucket comment. Poor thing. It must suck to be you. :-(

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            07.02.09, 03:19 PM [ Flagged | link to this post ]
            • Magic Erasers are amazing!

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              07.02.09, 03:22 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
              • Pssstttt....I hear Susan Smith was a WOHM (whispering)...she can be YOUR hero! LOL! ;-) Loser.

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                07.02.09, 03:24 PM [ Flagged | link to this post ]
                • Dena Schlosser. She's stayed at home with her 3 children and boy is she great in the kitchen. It takes real skill to cut off the arm of your infant daughter. Yay, Jenny.

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                  07.02.09, 03:27 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
                • Actually she was a SAHM but she needed to find a job to support her kids. But instead you met a man she thought would support her, except that he didn't want any kids.

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                  07.02.09, 03:33 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
                  • Yawn....I'm sure if I had time to google & troll the internet like you do (is the drive-thru THAT slow today?) then I could google a bunch of moms who killed their kids & where WOHMs, but alas, I'm not as lame as you. LOL! ;-)

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                    07.02.09, 03:54 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
                    • p.s. WTF is Dena Schlosser?

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                      07.02.09, 03:56 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
                    • Oh, please cunt. You love googling *facts*. You seem to think that children are only harmed in daycare or with a babysitter because of what you call a negligent working mom. Plenty of maimed and dead children by the hands of their SAHM. You're the one insulting people and wishing their kid will drown at daycare.

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                      07.02.09, 04:06 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
                      • You're really fucked up in the head to say that I'm wishing their kid would drown in daycare, and you're one angry MO-FO too....I can tell by your "c" word usage. ICK! You're scary, angry, and probably guilty for neglecting your own child. The "fact" is that anybody can harm a child, I wasn't hte one who brought up Andrea Yates, but I'm the one who finished the argument by putting your moron ass in your place. Now buzz off, freak. ICK!

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                        07.02.09, 04:11 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
            • I wear an Old Navy size 20. Am I fat?

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              07.02.09, 03:23 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
            • She was still a stay at home mom. Don't fault her Jenny. She did what you wanted her to do. She didn't have an abortion and gosh darn it she stayed home with her kids.

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              07.02.09, 03:24 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
            • Size 20 Old Navy size is really a size 10.

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              07.02.09, 03:25 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
            • I went swimming today.

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              07.02.09, 03:28 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
    • I have one blue and one brown eye like David Bowie. ~Let's Dance~

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      07.02.09, 03:55 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
    • I loved my Krissy doll when I was a kid.

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      07.02.09, 03:56 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
    • I like hot sauce on grits.

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      07.02.09, 04:14 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
  • [-]I am shocked. DC got an offer for incoming 2nd grade to Lower Lab. I truly expected NO offer. I am overjoyed, of course

    50 replies [ Reply | Watch | Options ]
    07.02.09, 06:59 PM [ Flag ]
    • ^Anyone else get an offer for 2nd to LL or other school? I honestly did not even think this would be a possibility so really need to do a lot of research. Any guidance from LL parents appreciated, in any form!

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      07.02.09, 07:01 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
      • LL parent here: what would you like to know?

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        07.02.09, 07:09 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
        • Do you think there is a real shot at it becoming K-8? I know this is basic stuff, but I honestly didn't even think this was possible so don't know it: is there foreign language instruction? how is MS placement? do you think the Everyday math is an issue?

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          07.02.09, 07:14 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
          • Actually, I do think there's a decent chance of it becoming K-8. Our new principal comes from Anderson and seems really committed to making this happen. As of now, we have a Spanish program for K-2 and next year, we will have a Latin program starting in 3rd grade (no more Spanish at that point). As far as I can tell, people are happy with their MS placement. Most go to selective public middle schools, like Upper Lab or East Side Middle. A few go to private or citywides and a few to gen ed middles. The math program is probably LL's weakest point, though I think it's comparable to all the other District 2 public schools. I personally like the intuitive math and think it's an improvement over the way we learned it. Quite frankly, I can...

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            07.02.09, 07:18 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
            • ^^^I think the end got cut off, I was saying that I can't keep all the different math programs straight.

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              07.02.09, 07:19 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
              • op: thanks! do you know the rational for doing Spanish for 3 years, then switch to Latin? I understand either choice, but not the reasoning for the switch. I believe our school now is some sort of modified Everyday or TERC math, but can't ever get a straight answer. I just know dc is completely bored with it. How is the science progam - is it a separate teacher and instruction?

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                07.02.09, 07:22 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
                • It's because the Spanish program that is in place isn't really appropriate for 3rd and up, but it's a nice introductory program for younger kids. And, they really can't start Latin any younger than 3rd. This is going to be the first year for Latin so I guess we'll see how it goes and eventually figure out what the overall language program should look like. We do have a separate Science teacher and science room.

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                  07.02.09, 07:25 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
                  • the latin thing seems like a bad idea. 3rd grade is not the best time to start latin imo. also, why not givee the kids a language they can learn to speak. or even a choice?

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                    07.02.09, 07:26 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
                  • Thanks. The current website says gr 3-5 have an 8 week choice of Spanish elective. Will this continue? Also how many 2nd grade classes are there?

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                    07.02.09, 07:30 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
                    • ^also, is there anything "special" in terms of a unique program or offering that LL is known for? We did actually tour the school about 5 years ago back pre-OLSAT for 1st dc so I know the facilities are good, but did not re-tour now b/c I really thought placement was an impossibility.

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                      07.02.09, 07:33 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
                    • why do publics only teach spanish? whatever happened to french and german?

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                      07.02.09, 07:33 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
    • Congratulations!!

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      07.02.09, 07:01 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
    • are you serious, or lying?

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      07.02.09, 07:02 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
      • serious. why would i lie?

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        07.02.09, 07:12 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
        • you are the only one posting about getting results. seems odd.

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          07.02.09, 07:16 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
          • no, someone earlier posted that they got the email also. no offer. my email went to the junk folder but is there.

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            07.02.09, 07:19 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
            • still...only 2 people in all of UB land? impossibe.

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              07.02.09, 07:32 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
              • again, what's impossible about it? I'm sure a LL parent on here will be able to verify that there is at least *some* attrition at higher grades, esp in this economy. I believe (though maybe I'm wrong?) that DOE requires the schools to fill the seats so wouldn't they have to offer to someone?

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                07.02.09, 07:34 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
                • its more about the fact that no one has been notified yet. you are FOS.

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                  07.02.09, 07:46 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
                  • I have no idea why I keep replying to you since you are clearly just trying to annoy me. But here's the quote of the first part of the email, "Dear Parent/Guardian: The Office of Student Enrollment is pleased to inform you that your child has received an offer to the Gifted and Talented Program at: 02M077: P.S. 77 LOWER LAB SCHOOLGrade: 2Address: 1700 3 AVENUE , MANHATTAN, NY, 10128Phone: 212-427-2798." What other info would you feel was necessary to make you believe this?

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                    07.02.09, 07:49 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
                    • np; don't bother with these people who call everyone fake. I don't understand people like that.

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                      07.02.09, 07:59 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
        • My cousin got her son in last year for 3rd grade. I posted about it last week. It was a life-saver for her. Her son was in private and she got financially dessimated (sp) by the divorce after it was found out her ex-husband had all this hidden debt.

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          07.02.09, 07:21 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
    • Congratulations!! Where is the dc at now?

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      07.02.09, 07:06 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
    • Yeah for you and DC!!!!!!!!!!! An NYC fairy tale...

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      07.02.09, 07:08 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
    • LL parent: It's a great school! But you need to look at everything for your DC and family. DC will get an absolutely amazing education at LL. It's heavily funded with a great principal, awesome teachers and a very supportive (if not overzealous) PTA. Gotta consider where you are now, and if your family wants to transition. It's still a "young" grade, but if DC and your family is truly happy where you're at, you might want to stay where you're at.

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      07.02.09, 07:15 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
      • not very welcoming. sheesh...

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        07.02.09, 07:17 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
        • I agree. What was that all about.

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          07.02.09, 07:18 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
          • I'm the LL parent who posted above. I see nothing wrong with her response. She's just giving both sides and saying that it might not be worth rocking the boat if OP is happy. Settle down, people!

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            07.02.09, 07:20 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
            • ^^^I mean, I'm not the one who posted this last part, but I posted above about the MS placement, languages and everyday math

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              07.02.09, 07:21 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
              • sorry, but it was half hearted welcome at best. obviously if OP were happy, she wouldn't have applied to G&T for 3rd grade. LL parent is presumptuous and arrogant. also may not want class size to increase.

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                07.02.09, 07:28 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
      • op: we are not particularly happy where we are (not unhappy, but don't see the value for the cost), nor can we continue to afford private so that's a moot point. The other option is moving out of the city.

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        07.02.09, 07:20 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
    • OP: Adding to the complicated decision is that we have an older dc in same current private who we did not apply out to G&T for (my fault, though not sure if dc would have made if of course). So either way dc will be split up.

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      07.02.09, 07:25 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
  • [-]On the subject of lending nannies money...our nanny of three years, whom we adore, is struggling to send her daughter off to college this fall. I know her daughter worked very hard in high school and was accepted at a great LIC. Daughter got some fin aid, some merit, but still has lots to cover; nanny is helping her but i also know daughter is taking out lots of loans. We would like to help, but is there a non-awkward way to do so? We have the money, our two dcs are both young and in public, and nanny's daughter has worked her butt off all through high school to get where she is. Thoughts?

    47 replies [ Reply | Watch | Options ]
    06.30.09, 05:37 PM [ Flag ]
    • give her a check for as much as you can justify

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      06.30.09, 05:43 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
    • Is this a loan or a gift? If nanny doesn't ask, you should give it as a gift.

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      06.30.09, 05:50 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
    • i don't think this would have to be awkward. someone i know had a benefactor that put her through a private high school and college. it was an older nun (friend was from a big catholic family). i don't think it was ever awkward. whole family was just very grateful!

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      06.30.09, 05:52 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
      • I'm just concerned Nanny will be a. shocked when she sees check and b. refuse to take it. DH and I are thinking $10K and I mean, I know that's a pretty big chunk of change and I would not be surprised if she refused to take it.

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        06.30.09, 05:57 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
        • Give it directly to the DD. But make sure she understands its for college, not to go out & party.

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          06.30.09, 05:59 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
          • We never really see her and she is definitely not the type of girl to go blowing that on partying.

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            06.30.09, 06:07 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
        • i understand. i guess you can't know unless you try! by the way, i think what you are considering doing is awesome. a lot of times parents will accept help for their kids when they would not accept help for themselves, i think.

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          06.30.09, 07:38 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
        • You actually made me tear up. That is so sweet. She must be an amazing woman if you love her so much and she's raised a wonderful daughter. It's nice to be able to help someone deserving so directly and you are really generous. Wow. You made my day.

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          07.01.09, 06:11 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
    • absolutely shouldn't be awkward if she didn't ask and you just want to give a gift. i would give her a card (for her daughter) telling her that she worked so hard and there's so much to pay for in college, you'd like to contribute to her education and give her encouragement. i was one of the people anti-loan in that other thread but in this one, i'm all for it. you're very generous.

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      06.30.09, 05:58 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
      • This is a great idea, and I am going to use your excellent wording too. DCs can make the card. Thanks for your help!

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        06.30.09, 06:01 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
        • i would give it to your nanny, not her daughter. this could cause a conflict between them.

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          06.30.09, 06:06 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
          • Definitely--we don't see her daughter much anyway

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            06.30.09, 06:08 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
          • i'm NP above and i meant she should give it to the nanny but have it addressed to nanny or the whole family. the words of encouragement could be addressed directly to the daughter.

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            06.30.09, 06:42 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
            • I am OP and I totally understood what you meant. The card will be for the daughter but since we don't really see her, I will give it to her mom.

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              06.30.09, 06:48 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
        • NP You sound like a very lovely person, OP!

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          06.30.09, 06:06 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
          • Well that's very sweet, thank you. DH and I both just had to take out a lot of loans for college and now that we are able to, we'd like to make it so that someone we care about doesn't have to, ya know? Plus we figure out dcs are young, we have time to make it back, so to speak.

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            06.30.09, 06:09 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
        • you're very welcome

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          06.30.09, 06:41 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
    • If you adore your nanny then why is it awkward? Do as we did and set up a college fund for Nanny's dc

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      06.30.09, 06:12 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
      • I am now having a total duh moment. Why didn't we think of that? Can you give me a little more info on what you did, how you presented it to nanny, etc? Did you just open up a savings account at your own bank and give nanny/dc card, pin, etc?

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        06.30.09, 06:14 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
        • We worked with Fidelity and opened a UGMA for our Nanny and her son. Her mariage was unstable at the time ans she wanted to make sure the money was not accessible to her dh. As far as presentation is concerned my mother had just passed away and we gave her the initial gift in my mother's name since they were close.

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          06.30.09, 06:28 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
          • np - you're the only sober one here lol. Everyone else is "Oh op you're so sweet"

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            06.30.09, 06:40 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
          • Great, I will definitely look into that. Thanks for the slight hand-holding--neither DH and I are particularly finance-inclined (both artists) so any advice helps.

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            06.30.09, 06:40 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
    • Such a nice, thoughtful gift! Your nanny is lucky to know you.

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      06.30.09, 06:12 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
    • That's really great of you!

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      06.30.09, 07:35 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
    • From a Nanny and a mother of a dd in college: you are a good hearted human being, call the college and make arrangements to pay them directly. Your goodness will come back to you ten-fold.

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      06.30.09, 08:31 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
      • OP--This is also a great idea and perhaps better than a UGMA because it is a tax-free solution. Thanks for suggesting this!

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        07.01.09, 08:39 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]
      • Do not call the college and pay them directly. If daughter is receiving aid from the school, whatever you pony up will be factored against the aid she is receiving from them. It is best that this be a private exchange between you and recipient. Financial aid is for people who need the money, if she's got money coming her way and the school knows about it, her 'need' on paper will be diminished.

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        07.01.09, 06:11 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
        • OP--you're right, thank you very much for pointing this out. I think we are going to give our nanny a card made by DCs, with message and check inside, to give to her daughter. Simple and sweet.

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          07.02.09, 06:13 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]
    • This is great. I am so happy to see genuine kindness and generosity on this board! I'd left for a while and it's great to have this be the first post I see upon my return. Lovely gesture and it sounds like you have a great way to make it happen now. GL to all of you - lucky nanny and daughter too!

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      06.30.09, 08:35 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
      • Thank you both, that's nice of you to say and I appreciate all the ideas on how to present the money!

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        07.01.09, 08:40 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]
    • Do you intend to give her money each year or is this a one time thing? Obviously keep it under the limit so she doesn't have to pay the gift tax. There's nothing wrong with her taking out loans and doing work study, but I think it's a great idea to help since you can afford it.

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      07.01.09, 10:10 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]
      • Isn't gift tax paid by the donor, not the recipient?

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        07.01.09, 10:12 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]
        • correct.

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          07.01.09, 10:13 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]
          • I think to avoid any potential problems/runaround, we are going to give our nanny a card made by DCs, with message and a check inside, to give to her daughter. I think a one-time thing is easier, no? One large check, simple and sweet.

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            07.02.09, 06:14 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]
            • if it is one time, make sure they are aware of that

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              07.02.09, 10:42 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]
              • OP--we are going to present this as a graduation gift and in the note, DH and I are going to write how proud we are of her and how we wanted to give her a little help in paying for college. Short and sweet.

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                07.02.09, 10:46 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]
    • All I could think when I read this was "God Bless You". Seriously, as a nanny it is wonderful to see posts like this. It's not even about the money. The fact that you love and respect the woman enough, and see her as part of your family to want to help her in that way, gives me hope that there ARE great families to work for out there. It's a wonderful thing you're thinking of doing!

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      07.02.09, 10:35 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]
    • It would not at all be awkward to give her a check in an envelope and tell her it is an honor to give her this gift to help with her daughter's education after all that she has given to your dc. You are a very kind and generous person with the right values.

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      07.02.09, 08:12 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
  • [-]I've become more pro-choice than ever since having a child; I can't imagine this kind of a responsibility/life change/sacrifice (sometimes) without really really wanting it.

    76 replies [ Reply | Watch | Options ]
    07.02.09, 01:03 PM [ Flag ]
    • i was pro choice before, and remain so.

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      07.02.09, 01:03 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
      • NP Me too but I am with OP -- more than ever seeing how huge a responsiblity it is from day 1 of pregnancy and forever forward, that people who cannot handle that should be able to choose to terminate

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        07.02.09, 04:24 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
    • hmm I'm about the same as I was, fairly pro-choice, hate that it happens though. It has brought it home to me more though and I find it sad that so many have to go through this route.

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      07.02.09, 01:10 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
    • always way, always will be

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      07.02.09, 01:11 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
    • me too, even just while I was pregnant.

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      07.02.09, 01:12 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
    • I have always been Pro-life. How hard is it to sacrifice nine months of your life and give the baby up for adoption?

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      07.02.09, 01:31 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
      • pretty hard in my book

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        07.02.09, 01:34 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
      • I agree. I worry also about the child also who may grow up in the foster care system if they don't have the "desirables" or being abused by the woman who is suppose to care for him or her. Ugh. No easy solutions. Which is why I'm big on promoting birth control. I may be tilting at windmills but so be it.

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        07.02.09, 01:38 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
        • honestly, little babies get adopted right away in this country (even the minorities). Everyone wants babies, it's the kids who are put up for adoption later that have a hard time getting adopted. I'm pro-choice, and am the poster above who said it would be hard in my book, but this isn't a very compelling reason.

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          07.02.09, 01:40 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
          • that is not true.

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            07.02.09, 01:41 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
          • That is so not true and many, many, many minority babies and toddlers are languishing in foster care in this country.

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            07.02.09, 01:43 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
            • You know. Let me just say it. Many, many Black babies.

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              07.02.09, 01:44 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
            • of course they are. while people are travelling across the hemisphere to get a child that looks like them. hypocrites.

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              07.02.09, 01:45 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
              • ummm, they also travel to Ethiopia to get babies (many who have been taken away from their parents without full disclosure)

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                07.02.09, 01:47 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
                • that is a statistically insignificant number of people. stop already.

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                  07.02.09, 01:51 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
                  • I'm not the pro-life loon, I'm pro-choice, but I think that you are wrong. Most babies in this country who get given up immediately after birth get adopted. In my area it is nearly impossible to even become a foster parent for these babies because there is so much competition (assuming no other serious health issues like addiction).

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                    07.02.09, 01:54 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
                    • I don't agree. If you said White babies or Latino babies who look White, maybe some validity.

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                      07.02.09, 01:58 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
                      • I have a friend going through the process, and she is on an extremely long waiting list and is willing to take any baby.

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                        07.02.09, 02:00 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
                        • ^^^but I don't know if this is for the whole country

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                          07.02.09, 02:00 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
                        • statistically, fewer whites have been willing to adopt children of color. hence all those overseas adoptions, which may have peaked.

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                          07.02.09, 02:03 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
                        • but most overseas adoptions are to minority kids, granted mostly asians. People avoid it here because of the risk of the birth mother coming back and changing her mind, not to mention it is fairly recently that mixed race adoptions were allowed

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                          07.02.09, 02:09 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
                        • fairly recently? Mixed race adoptions have been allowed for about 45 years.

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                          07.02.09, 02:12 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
                        • it depends on the state. The Supreme Court had to rule on it in the 90s.

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                          07.02.09, 02:13 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
            • That's because their mothers can't care for them, yet haven't released them for adoption!

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              07.02.09, 02:57 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
      • that would be anti choice, and it is hard. also, people act as if folks are out there clamoring for babies, but statistics show otherwise.

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        07.02.09, 01:40 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
      • it's not easy to carry that little one around and then just give it up. some people just don't get that.

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        07.02.09, 02:53 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
      • Is this person for real?

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        07.02.09, 05:31 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
    • ITA. it scares the hell out of me that people who don't want babies would be charged with carrying them around for 9 months and perhaps parenting them for the rest of their lives. i definitely give mad props to the women who are willing and able to carry babies for 9 months and give them up for adoption. but i recognize that this is not for everyone, and it is DEFINITELY not in the best interests of a child to have a woman who doesn't want this responsibility determining his/her lifelong health. parenting, and even pregnancy, requires major sacrifice.

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      07.02.09, 01:40 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
    • I had two babies 1 at 16 the other at 18. I often think about what I would do if I could relive the moment I had unprotected sex or the moment I found out I was pregnant. I actually thought about putting my baby up for adoption. I confided in a nurse at St. Luke's hospital. You know what she said, a Black baby boy will never get adopted. This was in 1988. To be honest, if I could go back knowing all the struggles, I would have had an abortion. Things worked out alright. I put myself through NYU & Princeton, got remarried to a great guy and have a kid at Cornel and one at American. But there were a few exhausting horrific moments along the way.

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      07.02.09, 01:53 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
    • Ugh. Pro lifer here (as in anti abortion in all but the most desperate medical circumstances, even then, I'm iffy). The fact that you referred to said child as an "it" said it all for me and how you view the lives of the helpless.

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      07.02.09, 01:57 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
    • Funny. Every time my throat gets heavy when I see that heart beating at the first u/s I feel less and less ok with it.

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      07.02.09, 02:45 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
      • You are obviously in the minority. Pro choicers only seem to feel this way when the child is wanted. Otherwise, it's a clump of cells.

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        07.02.09, 02:48 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
    • was pro-choice before, am now after one dd and one on the way. i AM uncomfortable about the fact that i do believe life begins at conception, and after seeing that little heart beat at 8 weeks. but the implications of having a society which forbids abortion are worse. i do wish we had tougher restrictions but that's a different story.

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      07.02.09, 02:53 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
    • Odd since I had me dd I have become more pro-life. There are tons of people out there wanting to adopt right now so why not have the babies and let them be adopted instead of killing them.

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      07.02.09, 03:49 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
      • The tons of children who grew up and are aging out of foster care would disagree with you on "tons of people wanting to adopt" unless you are only talking about White babies.

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        07.02.09, 03:53 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
      • what about the huge problems that many of the babies have for their entire lives, because the women who carried them didn't want to be pregnant? babies addicted to drugs, babies crippled because of prenatal deficiencies, babies with fetal alcohol syndrome? these babies have a very hard time finding stable homes. even terribly committed and loving foster parents are often unable to handle caring for them for long periods of time.

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        07.02.09, 03:56 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
      • have you actually researched the number of kids available for adoption that cannot be placed? it sounds like you are talking about healthy babies. many of the kids up for adoption are not healthy and have a terrible time being placed. women with unplanned pregnancies are much more likely to give birth to children with serious health problems.

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        07.02.09, 03:58 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
      • according to the latest stats, 130,000 kids in the U.S. foster care system are waiting to be adopted. only 50,000 are adopted per year. most unwanted kids are not adopted. http://www.acf.hhs.gov/programs/cb/stats_research/afcars/trends.htm

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        07.02.09, 04:10 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
    • I've always been pro-choice. It rules! Luv, Jenny ;-) p.s. Pro-lifer whack-jobs are nutty as a fruit-cake. They talk about saving babies but then shoot Doctors! ICK!

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      07.02.09, 04:00 PM [ Flagged | link to this post ]
    • If men got pregnant, abortion rights would be in the constitution, PERIOD.

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      07.02.09, 05:29 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
      • So true!

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        07.02.09, 05:40 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
      • Right, only women are supposed to involuntarily or unwillingly put their lives at risk (people still die of complications of childbirth and labor), vomit unremittingly for 3 months, get heartburn, get fat, be split in two during labor, yadda, yadda... If men got pregnant, Big Pharma would make a pill to stop this horrible disease! Oh right, THEY ALREADY HAVE ONE BUT THE FREAKING PRO-LIFERS MAKE ACCESSING IT A HUGE FREAKING PROBLEM!!!!!!!

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        07.02.09, 05:47 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
        • And, they make sure that Viagra is offered everywhere.

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          07.02.09, 05:49 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
          • Sex IS a sin but if you are going to sin you might as well enjoy it while it lasts and then walk away while some woman suffers the consequences for ETERNITY.

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            07.02.09, 05:54 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
    • Funny, since I had dd I have become more uncomfortable with the idea of abortion - but I cannot imagine roe v wade going away - it's every woman's choice

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      07.02.09, 05:34 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
    • After two dcs (and an abortion 15 yrs ago) I feel more and more that abortion is something I could not do at this stage of my life. But I still think any woman who wants an abortion should be able to have one.

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      07.02.09, 06:01 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
    • i'm the opposite.

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      07.02.09, 07:25 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
    • I was vehemently pro-choice, former member of NOW and even marched in Washington, but after having my children I became much more pro-life. I still think it's a woman's right to choose but I wish that abortion would be limited to the first trimester, except in very limited circumstances. A woman in my mommy group just had an abortion at 18 weeks because she couldn't make up her mind. Things like this need to be stopped. Flame away if you must, but most of us knew the sex of our babies by that time and here she is thinking should she or shouldn't she? Makes me very sad.

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      07.02.09, 07:55 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
      • I'm vehemently pro-choice AND I'm sad, conflicted, and disgusted. When I would speak to teenage girls who were knocked up and were in total denial or just plane wishy-washy, I would want to shake them and want to scream out there are 62 forms of birth control you can get for FREE, YOU IDIOT. Ugh. They just don't understand that it's better to make the decision early. But most are ashamed and really think "it will just go away". Ugh.

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        07.02.09, 08:04 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
        • where do you get bc for free? Not flaming at all--I really do wish people in this country were more frank with themselves and with their teen kids about bc, pregnancy, etc. We have an insane number of unwanted pregnancies in this country. I am another reluctant and conflicted pro-choicer--just wish pro-lifers were more pro-active about tackling the problem at the source, i.e. before it happens.

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          07.02.09, 08:08 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
  • [-]I feel like I have delpeated all my life's patience and my dd is only a year old. How the hell will I keep this up another 17 years?! Is there boarding school for toddlers?

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    07.02.09, 04:41 PM [ Flag ]
    • let me know if you find one

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      07.02.09, 04:42 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
    • it keeps getting better and you'll be amazed at the energy and patience you can conjure up. i promise. still going strong and my dd is 7yo (and i had her at 40...)

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      07.02.09, 04:43 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
      • OP - I don't know ...she keeps getting harder and harder. Newborn stage was cake compared to this. She still wakes up 2-3x per night and nurses all night. I spend literally 22 hrs a day with her and she has some crazy seperation anxiety. I am loosing my mind. I told a pregnant woman on the street today that "kids ruin your life" when we passed on the sidewalk.

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        07.02.09, 04:46 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
        • YOU are choosing to let her nurse all night. Crazy to allow a toddler to do that.

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          07.02.09, 04:55 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
          • I know. She was sttn a few months ago and suddenly regressed when she turned 12 months old. I will cut it out tonight. can't do this one more night.

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            07.02.09, 04:57 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
    • There are draining the first couple years. As they get older and learn boundaries and rules it gets easier. My dd is almost 2 and listens really well when she wants to but I still have to remember that she's becoming independent and that she is trying to figure out the world around her. You've heard that saying "This too shall pass"

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      07.02.09, 04:43 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
      • I feel like my entire life has been "this too shall pass" except for a couple weeks' vacation. I am also scared sh*tless that I left my job for this and maybe I am not cut out to be a sahm...but I can't leave her b/c she screams!! ugh.

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        07.02.09, 04:48 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
        • All children go through these phases and they don't last forever. I get by with thinking about how fast time is going by and remembering to treasure every moment because before you know it she will be raising her own kids.

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          07.02.09, 05:22 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
    • everyone feels that way sometimes, so don't beat yourself up or think "that's it, that's how it'll always be". it'll get easier, there will be tougher times but don't think that you're in a dark tunnel you'll never get out of.

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      07.02.09, 04:44 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
    • it sounds like you might want to consider therapy. you sound overwhelmed and depressed and I'm sure it couldn't hurt to talk to someone about what's going on.

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      07.02.09, 04:50 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
      • I have a typical life w/ a 1 year old - how is therapy going to help me? unless the therapist suggest names of cheap babysitters.

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        07.02.09, 04:53 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
        • actually, it doesn't sound like you have a typical life with a 1 yr old. I have 2 children, the youngest is one, and your experience sounds dramatically different from my own. If you are telling people on the street that kids ruin your life, even jokingly, then it sounds like you are under a lot of stress and that being in therapy could really help. it doesn't sound like you are enjoying the experience of being a mother.

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          07.02.09, 04:55 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
          • you are right but I don't know how a therapist can help. What I need is a sleep trainer and a babysitter. I'm pretty much doing this on my own (DH works a ton) and get around 5 hrs sleep per night. So... nope, not enjoing this at all.

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            07.02.09, 04:59 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
            • well i'm biased b/c i am a therapist, but i do think that a lot of women think that their experience as mothers is "typical," everyone just tells you that the first year is hard, etc., but there is a difference between being occasionally overwhelmed and the tone of your email. it sounds like you may have PPD and in my opinion, a good therapist could help a lot. all of us mothers of one year olds are sleep deprived, but it sounds like there is more going on and it's a shame to spend these early years as miserable as you sound.

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              07.02.09, 05:03 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
              • I don't even know what I would say - I'm stressed b/c I'm exhausted when I wake up and count down the minutes after 4pm till her bedtime so I can finally sit down. And that I think my old stressfull job was 100x easier than this. Oh, and I am sick to death of having someone sucking at my tit every hour. :)

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                07.02.09, 05:10 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
                • Are you cosleeping? She's definitely old enough that she doesn't need to be nursing that much. Have you read about how to wean her off some of these feedings? If you just cut her off it's going to be much worse for both of you, but when I weaned #1 I picked one feeding at a time and decreased it by a minute until it was out. It was pretty easy for both of us and she was completely weaned by 14m (and she LOVED to nurse). Secondly, once she stops nursing all night she will probably sleep better. Have you read Ferber? I found him v. helpful. Thirdly, find a therapist who can meet you for an evening appt and have DH commit to being home one evening a week for you to go. It sounds like you are struggling w/a lot, including the transitio...

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                  07.02.09, 05:15 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
                  • We cosleep from 2-7am. We cut out nursing at night a month ago but she regressed so I have no choice. I can't do your meathod as she also nurses for comfort throughout the day. I read Ferber but CIO won't work on her - I just feel totally hopeless that I will ever sleep again. She is so clingy during the day - literally sits on my lap to play. I'm just so TIRED of having someone on me or sucking on my almost 24/7.

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                    07.02.09, 05:22 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
                    • sounds like you definitely need help w/all this. There is a parenting center that used to be in the same space as soho pediatrics; i can't remember the name, but i'm sure they can give it to you. i know that they offered support grps and workshops on all this stuff and you can bring DD.

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                      07.02.09, 05:25 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
                    • then get help. you are beginning to sound very martyrish and like a victim. you need to set some boundaries and regain some sanity.

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                      07.02.09, 05:25 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
                      • I don't feel "martyrish" whatever that means - I'm trying to be a good mother and am just feeling exhausted so... now I am blamed for trying to do the right thing?? Victim???!

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                        07.02.09, 05:36 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
                  • Been there, done that... You are depressed and will feel so much better (a) sleep-training your child and (b) seeing a therapist and (c) possibly taking medication. It is NOT your child's fault that she is nursing every hour. Some children are more challenging than others, yes, but while their temperments may not be changed their behaviors certainly can. BTW screaming and crying are normal parts of growing up and you shouldn't allow yourself to become resentful because you have made yourself a slave to them. A child needs love and limits, not martyrdom and resentment.

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                    07.02.09, 05:28 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
                    • amen! i couldn't agree more!

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                      07.02.09, 05:28 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
                    • And incidentally, being depressed affects your child in significant ways that are difficult to imagine. Read some of the literature; even as tiny infants children pick up on and react to mothers' moods. I'm sure some of her clinginess and difficulties with separation are connected to the depression and stress you are feeling. Getting help for yourself will help her be able to have a secure attachment and less trouble w/separation. Otherwise this is not a problem that is just going to resolve on its own. It looks like the consensus here is that you should get help/support for yourself!

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                      07.02.09, 05:31 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
                      • what kind of help? A sleep trainer? I really don't feel depressed - mostly just tired after a year of this and wondering when I will sleep again. Sleep deprevation is serious and I don't think meds will fix it.

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                        07.02.09, 05:34 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
                        • Yes, so stop depriving YOU CHILD of sleep and teach her to do it, just like you will teach her to use the potty and tie her shoes. It is called 'Weissbluth' - look in to it.

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                          07.02.09, 05:39 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
                        • I don't want to do CIO, sorry.

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                          07.02.09, 05:44 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
                        • So BIO - beyatching it out - is better?

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                          07.02.09, 05:49 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
                        • np- then stop complaining. End of story

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                          07.02.09, 05:52 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
                        • it seems like everyone is drawn to help you on this board and you just want to argue that nothing can help. therapy absolutely can help. meds probably can too. sleep training as well. you don't have to CIO. ferber is the best sleep book i read and really explains the process. you balance showing her that you are there and that she's safe with teaching her how to fall asleep by herself and self soothe instead of nursing to comfort.

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                          07.02.09, 05:53 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
                        • I know people are trying to help. I'm sorry - I do sound pathetic. Actually we did do Ferber (modified) at 11 months and it worked for a week. I guess I have to do it again.

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                          07.02.09, 05:57 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
                        • You have to be consistent. It sounds like you are weaning and sleep training, then stopping, then starting. it all sounds extremely confusing. If she doesn't get that there is any kind of structure than why shouldn't she nurse at 4am? how does she know there is a difference between 4AM and 4 PM?? these are things we teach our kids by parenting consistently.

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                          07.02.09, 06:00 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
                        • op - when I cut out night nursing, she did well for a week and then regressed so that nothing would get her back to sleep so I caved. It was probably a mistake in hindsight so I will try again tonight.

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                          07.02.09, 06:08 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
                      • Amen! Amen! Amen! I had PPD, got treated at 4 months, and will forever be sad about emotionally missing those first four months and feeling like I got the wrong baby. My DD isn't easy, isn't perfect, makes me crazy sometimes, but without the veil of depression, I know that growing up is every bit as hard as raising a child so we are SO IN IT TOGETHER and I adore it!

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                        07.02.09, 05:38 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
      • np : ita. get therapy, get help. You sound really overwhelmed. I have 2 kids and can't say I relate to your post. I can't imagine saying babies ruin your life, etc. That is not a typical first year. You should not be this drained!

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        07.02.09, 05:25 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
        • I don't know what I am doing differently from other 1st time mothers? Do other mothers get more babysitting? Do their babies sleep through the night earlier? I don't know why I sound so terrible

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          07.02.09, 05:39 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
    • the first thing you need to do is stop all the breastfeeding in the middle of the night, maybe wean altogether. it really does get easier around 2/3... but you need to set some boundaries and get some help.

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      07.02.09, 05:25 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
      • i don't agree. if you are this overwhelmed at 1, things don't get easier at 2 and 3 when kids are testing limits, etc. this is not a normal amount of stress. i recommended the brazelton book touchpoints to someone earlier. i just read the 1 yr old chapter w/my DC in mind and found it very helpful in understanding where she's at developmentally. just waiting it out (for a year or two or three..!) is NOT the answer!

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        07.02.09, 05:27 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
        • OP - actually I know that 2 and 3 is harder which is why I feel so bad when I have a heard day with my 12-mo!! I think the root cause is that I am *SO* sleep deprived and it is catching up with me big time. I guess I always told myself that she would STTN at 1 and she just celebrated her 1 yr bday is is still a horrible sleeper and my hope has just vanished that I will ever sleep again.

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          07.02.09, 05:43 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
          • Listen to what all the posters are saying. We are all able to understand the effects of sleep deprivation. My first was colicky and screamed around the clock for 4 months straight, but I can't say even then I felt as down as you sound. There is more going on then you are realizing and your DD is being affected by it. You need to set limits around her nursing and sleeping and take care of yourself by getting support. It's not that we all have babysitters and great sleepers; we all have difficult kids but you are having a harder time than others BECAUSE YOU ARE DEPRESSED!! get help for yourself so you can be a good and engaged and happy mom to your daughter!

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            07.02.09, 05:58 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
            • I don't feel as depressed as everyone here thinks I am.

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              07.02.09, 06:05 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
              • OK, i give up then. you are the one who started out by saying you've depleted your life's patience; you are telling pregnant women they are ruining their life; you can't take nursing one more night, etc. There seems to be a pretty strong general consensus that you sound depressed, but you sound pretty determined just to argue with anyone who dares to help you improve the situation. If you don't get therapy i certainly hope your daughter does, since living with someone depressed and resentful is brutal.

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                07.02.09, 06:08 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
                • the OP was in jest and yes, I told one preg woman that as a joke during a low point in the day. Did I mean it 100%? no, of course not. I am not about to go on Prozac because of a bad moment. I appreciate the posts here and I agree that I lack "strength" in the sleep training area. I am absolutely a bad parent in this regard and it has come back to bite me in the ass. But I want to thank you all for giving me the motivation to cut out the night nursing tonight (for the second time) and hopefully it will end soon...

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                  07.02.09, 06:18 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
    • One word: ferberization. Take your life back

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      07.02.09, 05:44 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
      • See above, she doesn't believe in CIO. She probably pulls a Britney and takes her kid out of the car seat on the highway when she cries. How much is this kid going to cry later in life knowing her own mother hates her?

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        07.02.09, 05:53 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
      • ITA. I did it with my son and he was a terrible sleeper too. 4 nights of suffering and then you get your sleep back. I'm not sure why you don't think you can do this but trust me, you can. Do it.

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        07.02.09, 05:54 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
        • "It's alright to cry... Crying gets the sad out of you... Raindrops from your eyes... It's gonna make you feel better..."

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          07.02.09, 05:59 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
      • op - I know. We did it a few months ago and it worked for a week. Will have to try something similar again when she wakes up tonight.

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        07.02.09, 06:00 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
      • np: some kids just don't ferberize all that well (like my son, who would cry for 4 hours, 1 hour, then ten minutes on consecutive nights...then cry for four hours again!) Try the "No Cry Sleep Solution" book. You may well have PPD, but you also may have a child who's strong-willed or sensitive by temperament. I had a high-needs first child who nursed through the night, and I did attachment parenting with no babysitting (though possibly I had more support from my husband? don't know your situation), but I didn't feel that depressed. First son is still "spirited" or "strong-willed" or what have you, so I've survived with the help of lots of parenting books.

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        07.02.09, 06:10 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
        • I always thought that CIO was the least amount of crying total. Ferber is a little bit of a tease. The No-Cry Solution takes incredible consistency and patience (props to you) and it would seem OP has neither.

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          07.02.09, 06:15 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
        • thank you. I feel like this is more my situation - she is very strong willed and I feel a little overwhelmed by the lack of sleep as well as her energy at 5 or 6pm just as I am crashing! Obviously I have to cut out the night nursing as others have said.

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          07.02.09, 06:15 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
          • That might not be energy, but a sign of over-tiredness...

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            07.02.09, 06:16 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
            • she sleeps from 6:30pm - 7 (and wakes to nurse when we cosleep) plus 2 naps per day

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              07.02.09, 06:20 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
              • 12-month-olds need a solid 12-13 hours/night(some even more). If she waking 2-3x, she's not getting that. If you are so exhausted from the sleep schedule, it is likely that she is as well.

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                07.02.09, 06:26 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
                • I agree with you but I just read Sears' Sleep book and it says night nursing is still common w/ BF babies so I thought maybe I was still ok but I'm seriously questioning my parenting in this area now and not sure what method will work on a strong willed 12 month old.

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                  07.02.09, 06:32 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
                  • My DD, 5, would still be night-nursing if we hadn't taken matters into our own hands. It is totally okay if all aspects of attachment parenting aren't for you. Believe me, your DD needs a well-rested and happy mother more than she needs to co-sleep and nurse all night long. Say what you want about Ferber and the gang (I don't distinguish between controlled-crying, CIO, pick-up/put-down - crying is crying), but they know about infant sleep.

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                    07.02.09, 06:39 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
    • i've only read some of the responses here but i think your child is at the age where you really have to start asking yourself what is in your child's best interests. until a certain age, i think it's in your child's best interests to have you at their beck and call. but there comes a time when you have to realize that your child needs to learn to sleep through the night on their own. a child needs to have the ability to separate from a parent. and you have limits too. you'd be wise to re-evaluate your needs and your child's needs now that you've passed the 12 month mark. good luck.

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      07.02.09, 06:43 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
    • OP, I was in your situation and I completely understand. And, by the way, this was with db #2, who was much more attached to me, much worse sleeper, than db #1, so I truly think that you just got one of those dbs who isn't a good sleeper. Db #1 weaned easily at 1 year, didn't need to co-sleep, etc., but db #2 did. It's annoying when people who have never had that experience think it's all about you.

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      07.02.09, 07:38 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
      • no cry sleep mom here: I agree. Having two kids (plus having babysat dozens of my children's friends) has been helpful for me as a parent to sort out how many of my difficulties have been due to my parenting techniques, and how many have been due to the child's temperament. What works for one child often does not work for another. Having a strong-willed kid is a wild ride but there are ways to help channel that power for good (later you'll want to check out books like "Kids, Parents, and Power Struggles", "How to Talk So Kids Will Listen and Listen So Kids Will Talk", etc.) Good luck and may the Force be with you! Wishing you lots and lots of beautiful sleep...

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        07.02.09, 07:56 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
    • It really gets better; one is a tough age, a gorgeous baby but a lot of work. When dc is 2 you may yearn for one again, but 3 is the reward you get for enduring, and by 4 you'll truly understand why you LOVE being a Mom. Try to get a sitter and get out once a week for something just for YOU.

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      07.02.09, 08:04 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]