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[+] A modest proposal: Since the MS44 building seems to have a bit of room, Anderson shou... 38 replies
- Do you think the same way about parents who have their children in private schools, esp...that they are all overly competitive? Yes. All parents are about whatever they can find that they...that judgment go? If it extends to every parent in NYC, what's the point?...
- that is positively singled out. Not the school or the program. If you think parents who send...
- ITA. There was a lawsuit by some parents (of infants!) in one of those buildings to...
Talk : : November 21, 2009
A modest proposal: Since the MS44 building seems to have a bit of room, Anderson should take non-"gifted" students in one or two additional classrooms on a lottery basis or as 87 overflow. It would become a school with a heralded gifted program, but not an exclusively "gifted" school. That would relieve some of D3 overcrowding, but still allow the programs geared to its students to continue, while also creating opportunities for other students in the region. Doesn't it make sense to use the space for D3 kids? What harm could there be to the school or to present students to have a few classes each grade that are not in the gifted program? (signed, an unaffected parent with child in another school - not 87 or Anderson)
38 replies [ Reply | Watch | Options ]11.21.09, 08:14 AM [ Flag ]^^^And why do you say that the building has room? What are the numbers?
[ Reply | Options ]11.21.09, 08:20 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]
Not a public mom I think the whole premise of the g&t is for the parents to feel their dcs are special or smarter and to gear their entire learning experience to that premise. To put them in normal classes or put normal kids in their classes would create a lot of hullaballoo from those competitive parents.
[ Reply | Options ]11.21.09, 08:22 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]Do you think the same way about parents who have their children in private schools, esp the ones in "TT" schools?
[ Reply | Options ]11.21.09, 08:26 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]Think what, that they are all overly competitive? Yes. All parents are about whatever they can find that they feel is better or best for their children.
[ Reply | Options ]11.21.09, 08:28 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]Think that they need to feel their dcs are special or smarter and to gear their entire learning experience to that premise.
[ Reply | Options ]11.21.09, 08:30 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]Yes,I do. If you took parents from Spence and told them Hewitt would be joining three days a week they would demand a refund from the school
[ Reply | Options ]11.21.09, 08:31 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]So then what exactly are you saying? Only parents who send their child to zoned schools all their educational lives (only suburban parents, I guess) are normal?
[ Reply | Options ]11.21.09, 08:39 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]It was obvious from the moment I posted, perhaps because I send my dc to private I don't know, that you have been trying to start a fight which I don't understand because I am not making a judgment about public or private I am commenting on the social behavior of parents when it comes to their children.
[ Reply | Options ]11.21.09, 08:47 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]Right and my question is - how far does that judgment go? If it extends to every parent in NYC, what's the point?
[ Reply | Options ]11.21.09, 08:48 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]Question to me or in general, because I have already stated I am not making a judgment about schools but about social behavior of every parents across the globe. if it isn't school its dance class or piano lessons or baseball teams. Ever parents wants to believe their dc is getting the best or is in a group that is labeled 'best' whether that is a school, a county's best baseball team, lessons with the best dance coach etc.
[ Reply | Options ]11.21.09, 08:51 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]So you are saying this about every parent "across the globe" but just framing it within a statement re G&T parents. OK.
[ Reply | Options ]11.21.09, 08:56 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]lol. You really want a fight ps mom don't you? I said nothing of the kind. Don't you have a dh around to torture?
[ Reply | Options ]11.21.09, 08:57 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]Actually, no, I don't want a fight. Just trying to clarify whether you were specifically commenting on just NYC G&T parents or modern-day parents across the board. So why am I wrong with my post above?
[ Reply | Options ]11.21.09, 08:59 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]No offense but how many times do I have to say I am commenting on parents in general? I think its been three times!
[ Reply | Options ]11.21.09, 09:01 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]Out of curiosity, why did you say above that "I said nothing of the kind" then? I think it's comments like that which are confusing.
[ Reply | Options ]11.21.09, 10:00 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]
WHAT is wrong with you lady she is not saying that!
[ Reply | Options ]11.21.09, 08:58 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]
LOL. But the Hewitt moms, who would have LOVED for their dds to have been accepted to Spence, would be thrilled and would pay extra.
[ Reply | Options ]11.21.09, 09:46 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]But then the Hewitt moms would be MORTIFIED if Hewitt made one class for, say, outer borough public school children.
[ Reply | Options ]11.21.09, 10:02 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]
How would you know if your dcs don't go to G&Ts? It's like public school parents on UB saying that private school A is full of snobby, entitled kids - how would they know?
[ Reply | Options ]11.21.09, 08:50 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]I am making a comment on parents and their capacity to compete when it comes to their children and always wanting their child to be in the group that is positively singled out. Not the school or the program. If you think parents who send their dcs to public want that any less than parents who send dcs to B, S, and C you are kidding yourself.
[ Reply | Options ]11.21.09, 08:53 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]
They need to put another MS in there. D3 overcrowding is reaching MS very very soon and there aren't enough spaces by a long shot to place all the kids that won't make it to Delta. Or maybe they can expand Computer School.
[ Reply | Options ]11.21.09, 08:43 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]There is: West Prep MS started this year. It's going to grow as MS 44 is being phased out. Not sure about it's target enrollment though once all the grades are in place.
[ Reply | Options ]11.21.09, 08:50 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]West Prep is very small school, and I don't think they are planning to grow it other than adding higher grades, so there is still net loss of MS seats as IS44 is being phased out. Where are the kids that were to go there going to go for MS?
[ Reply | Options ]11.21.09, 08:53 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]MS 44 itself is pretty small at this point in terms of number of children per grade. There have been several newer D3 MS options created in the past few years. The problem is that aside from Center (yes, I know it starts in 5th), Computer, Delta, Mott Hall and the Columbia Secondary School, few feel that the other options offer an acceptable education. Also, relatively few of the options are in the southern end of the District.
[ Reply | Options ]11.21.09, 08:59 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]I think that that's interesting re D3. The better elementary schools are in the southern end but the better MSs are more uptown.
[ Reply | Options ]11.21.09, 10:04 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]
Conservatively, over half of the kids at Anderson are from D3 anyway (so maybe they could just all leave and add to the crowding at their home schools). This meme you people are floating, that Anderson is not a D3 school and should just keep moving like some hobo circus train is going to come back and bite you in the ass. And why does 87 need to bleed across the street? maybe because half the kids in that building are not zoned for it? How about this? no more out-of-catchment kids at PS87 and the Trump buildings go to PS191, like they were supposed to in the first place.
[ Reply | Options ]11.21.09, 08:44 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]This is absolutely not true. Used to be true and may still be in upper grades but not in the lower ones.
[ Reply | Options ]11.21.09, 08:52 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]No, true for the lower grades also. Are you looking at a directory? Why would you try to dispute this?
[ Reply | Options ]11.21.09, 09:30 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]
While I understand your premise on a local level, once you look at it on a citywide or even borough-wide level it doesn't make sense, given that many, many more children qualify for G&T than there are seats available. The bottom line is that there needs to be more elementary school seats across the board than there are at present.
[ Reply | Options ]11.21.09, 08:45 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]I think the premise is to add seats where possible as priority, with g & t (which was created initially to bring local families back to public schools) as less of a priority. Look at the hysteria created unnecessarily (NY Times today on test prep). If Anderson were not a citywide school on 77th street, there would be that many more K spots for D3 kids available. The proposal retains the integrity of what Anderson has created for its kids over the decades, but allows the process of allocating school space for local kids.
[ Reply | Options ]11.21.09, 09:18 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]I find it amusing but not surprising that no one was looking at OShea last year before Anderson was forced to move. And, again with the "local kids"--if you're talking catchment, half of 87 shouldn't be there either.
[ Reply | Options ]11.21.09, 09:33 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]I am so sick of the out of catchement 87 BS. they have so many out of catchment kids because the DOE handed them to 87 without a choice. The current 2nd grade had 65 OOC spots via D3 lottery. The current 1st grade had 36. The current K had none but the principal decided to let in OOC siblings because she believed it was the right thing to do that late in the year. It made one K class. They could've done 8 K classes with 25-26 kids in a class but instead have 9 with 21 kids per class. Some kids get in OOC through the CTT classes or no child left behind and the school has no say in that.
[ Reply | Options ]11.21.09, 09:49 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]They happily accepted OOC kids for years, in order to "build" the school. I understand, and sympathize. It's a bit misleading to say the DOE forced them in through the lottery the last couple of years. The lottery was simply to replace the "apply to individual schools and get in because the admin gets to decide which families they are going to give a spot to" method that was in place all over D3 for many many years.
[ Reply | Options ]11.21.09, 10:04 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]True. But actually in 2007 the K classes expanded to 7 because the DOE gave PS 87 65 lottery seats rather than the 40 the school thought they could fit. The DOE has grossly underestimated the in catchment surge across lower D3. They also have done no accurate population prediction because they lump the district as a whole. PS 145 is half empty but no one from the W. 80s, 70s or 60s wants to go up there. What they should do is zone the trump buildings for 191 and then see what happens.
[ Reply | Options ]11.21.09, 10:09 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]ITA. There was a lawsuit by some parents (of infants!) in one of those buildings to stop that last year--I guess they felt the insult of going to 191 was too much to bear on top of the injury of having paid top dollar to live in Donald Trump's dorm rooms.
[ Reply | Options ]11.21.09, 10:14 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]
If I may - to redirect conversation to subject-at-hand - True, MS44 space, if it exists, should be considered toward the imminent danger of middleschool chaos once the 2007 K kids reach 6th grade. But also -- the growing hysteria about gifted is just so out-of-whack with reality. And prevents other schools like 191, 84, 9, from really blossoming into the kind of sought-after institution like 199 and 87 (where they don't believe in the idea of "gifted")
[ Reply | Options ]11.21.09, 10:20 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]Anderson is a great program for the G&T. What is the point in expending it as a non G&T? There are a lot of families in D3 with 99% dc who do not get space there. It makes sense to keep it as G&T perhaps giving the extra class D3 preference is a good idea for overcrowding.
[ Reply | Options ]11.21.09, 10:22 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]
[+] second year applying for ds at his sister's school. getting negative signals from adm... 5 replies
- op: I just don't know how I would manage next year. I'm a single working parent and can't afford the childcare that comes with having kids this age on different schedules....
Talk : : November 20, 2009
second year applying for ds at his sister's school. getting negative signals from admissions. if he doesn't get in, I'd like to pull her out and have them go somewhere together, but the public school we're zoned for doesn't have a preschool.
5 replies [ Reply | Watch | Options ]11.20.09, 07:19 PM [ Flag ]you could always try again next year and if it doesn't pan out then move them to the public.
[ Reply | Options ]11.20.09, 07:24 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]op: I just don't know how I would manage next year. I'm a single working parent and can't afford the childcare that comes with having kids this age on different schedules.
[ Reply | Options ]11.20.09, 07:29 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]suck it up and pay a student to do the drop off for the older kid in the a.m. and take the younger one yourself or go to the admin of the older kids school and plead your case.
[ Reply | Options ]11.20.09, 07:37 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
what do negative signals mean? is ds somehow a trouble kid?
[ Reply | Options ]11.20.09, 07:55 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]What grades?
[ Reply | Options ]11.20.09, 07:58 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
[+] I did the post asking what you are most proud of, thinking of a big accomplishment th... 12 replies
- i'm not a parent, but the two bad things i did were ruin my gpa by working too much. i didn't save any money like i should have, and it was not worth the drop in GPA. with my 2.7, I am having a really hard time applying to any grad school,...
Talk : : November 20, 2009
I did the post asking what you are most proud of, thinking of a big accomplishment that you worked hard to achieve. Now the opposite question: what single thing did you do as an adult/parent that you most regret or are most ashamed of? Some one thing you could go back and get a "redo" on if it were possible?
12 replies [ Reply | Watch | Options ]11.20.09, 06:48 PM [ Flag ]totally lose it with my ds when he was about two and would run around the apartment until 11 p.m. against all eefforts to put him down
[ Reply | Options ]11.20.09, 06:57 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]used my boyfriends amex to pay for my ivf :0 presto twins
[ Reply | Options ]11.20.09, 07:09 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]Cool. I would have put that in the accomplishments post, not the regrets/do-overs.
[ Reply | Options ]11.20.09, 07:12 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]what would you have done differently?
[ Reply | Options ]11.20.09, 07:34 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
Losing my temper with my kids. On a couple of occasions, I really blew it.
[ Reply | Options ]11.20.09, 07:11 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]Said really hurtful things to my dh early on in our marriage that still affect us today. I wish I would have kept my mouth shut about past relationships. I think he still resents things I've said.
[ Reply | Options ]11.20.09, 07:15 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]Wow - what did you say???
[ Reply | Options ]11.20.09, 08:57 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
trying to "ferberize" dc
[ Reply | Options ]11.20.09, 07:49 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]Ferberizing dc was one of the best things we did
[ Reply | Options ]11.20.09, 10:02 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
Accidentally tipping db out of stroller. I still hear that thunk noise.
[ Reply | Options ]11.20.09, 07:57 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]Keeping a babysitter I knew was subpar longer than I should have. She subsequently lost my dc at the park. Luckily my dc made it home alone, safe, but it was so awful.
[ Reply | Options ]11.20.09, 08:56 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]i'm not a parent, but the two bad things i did were ruin my gpa by working too much. i didn't save any money like i should have, and it was not worth the drop in GPA. with my 2.7, I am having a really hard time applying to any grad school, even conditionally. I have a 1400 GRE score but everyone looks at my GPA. I'm unemployed, and I can't even get a job as a grocery store bagger...sometimes I wish I chose a more 'vocational' field. I don't really care about being 'well rounded' when I don't have money to pursue any interests at all
[ Reply | Options ]11.20.09, 09:05 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
[+] I'm expecting triples girls! What do you think of the names Anita Louise, Clarice Ama... 38 replies
- Whoa!! you've got it all wrong? What's racist? Rhyming names for triplets?? Love it, so cute. And, will parents of single newborns let alone twins or triplets not be tired? I'm not sure what your issue is but I think you've misread...I am just saying that to me if I heard the names, I would assume the parents were Hispanic. I didn't say there is anything wrong with being Hispanic or choosing Hispanic...
Talk : : November 20, 2009
I'm expecting triples girls! What do you think of the names Anita Louise, Clarice Amalia (or Amelia), Helena Maria?. My last name start with D and dh last name start with L.
38 replies [ Reply | Watch | Options ]11.20.09, 05:04 PM [ Flag ]What nationality are you and dh?
[ Reply | Options ]11.20.09, 05:07 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]dh is american and i'm french but raised in Argentina.
[ Reply | Options ]11.20.09, 05:09 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]I was wondering this because my first thought when I read this was that you were Hispanic. These sound very Hispanic, especially Helena. Cute names would be Anita, Clara, and Helen - all not popular but are pretty and all close variations of the names you already have. Good luck with your pregnancy.
[ Reply | Options ]11.20.09, 05:17 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]np: i like clarice and helena a lot more than clara and helen.
[ Reply | Options ]11.20.09, 05:25 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]Really. I think Clara and Helen are MUCH better than the alternative. Plus, it seems like she is taking normal names and changing them for the sake of changing them. Pretty sure Helena came from the name Helen anyway.
[ Reply | Options ]11.20.09, 05:39 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]I know a Helena and think it's a great name. I like Clara much much better than Clarice. OP, how are you pronouncing Helena? (Hel-lee-na or like Elena but with an H)
[ Reply | Options ]11.20.09, 05:41 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]Or just maybe, Helen came from Helena? After all, English didn't even exist when Homer was writing about Helen of Troy! To OP, Clarice is the only name I don't like - the Silence of the Lambs reference as mentioned below, but also just don't like it.
[ Reply | Options ]11.21.09, 06:25 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]
I don't understand. There is something wrong with choosing a hispanic sounding name? Why did you feel the need to anglicize the names that the OR chose?
[ Reply | Options ]11.20.09, 06:48 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]I am not I am just saying that to me if I heard the names, I would assume the parents were Hispanic. I didn't say there is anything wrong with being Hispanic or choosing Hispanic names. I like to know so I don't suggest other names that are maybe too American or too 'other culture' for them.
[ Reply | Options ]11.20.09, 06:52 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
I think all of the names are lovely. I am not a fan of Clarice, but that is just my personal taste and I think it goes well with Amalia and the others. Congratulations and best of luck for a long and healthy pregnancy!
[ Reply | Options ]11.20.09, 05:12 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]^^^PS, do you know about triplet connection?
[ Reply | Options ]11.20.09, 05:12 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]Me either, but I like Clara...
[ Reply | Options ]11.20.09, 05:12 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]ITA. I think Clara is a great name.
[ Reply | Options ]11.20.09, 05:15 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
The only Clarice I can think of is Rudolf the Red Nosed Reindeer's girlfriend. Any other dumb American's make that connection?
[ Reply | Options ]11.20.09, 05:17 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]op: Do you know clarice lispector? she was an amazing writer my favorite. I'm thinking about naming my daughter after her
[ Reply | Options ]11.20.09, 05:25 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]I know she was a Brazilian? writer but can't say I'm familiar with her work. I'll check it out if only so I have a better frame of reference for a name than a cartoon reindeer. Good luck to you. Triplets won't be easy, but it will be worth it.
[ Reply | Options ]11.20.09, 06:06 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]she is a very good writer, check it out.
[ Reply | Options ]11.20.09, 06:24 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
I think of Silence of the Lanbs
[ Reply | Options ]11.20.09, 08:13 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
Really? I think of a "nice Chianti".
[ Reply | Options ]11.20.09, 06:49 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]She thinks I'm cuuuute!!
[ Reply | Options ]11.20.09, 06:55 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
I love Amalia. Congrats! You are going to be a busy lady!
[ Reply | Options ]11.20.09, 05:16 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]Nina, Pinta and Santa Maria (just kidding) I love the name Helena Maria
[ Reply | Options ]11.20.09, 05:19 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]Or Amalia Louise, Clara Anita, Helena Maria. Just to break up the phonetics a bit.
[ Reply | Options ]11.20.09, 05:19 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]Not a fan of Clara.
[ Reply | Options ]11.20.09, 05:26 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]np Clara is a beautiful, classic name.
[ Reply | Options ]11.20.09, 08:16 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
Enjoy these last moments when you have time and energy enough to ponder. Consider perhaps Anita, Bonita and Conchita.
[ Reply | Options ]11.20.09, 05:42 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]There is really mean poster on tonight..
[ Reply | Options ]11.20.09, 05:42 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]What's so mean? Triplets are going to take up a lot of time and energy. Why not be organized and have an A,B,C?
[ Reply | Options ]11.20.09, 05:45 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]You know why, you racist piece of dog poo. It is just not funny, so stfu.
[ Reply | Options ]11.20.09, 05:47 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]Whoa!! you've got it all wrong? What's racist? Rhyming names for triplets?? Love it, so cute. And, will parents of single newborns let alone twins or triplets not be tired? I'm not sure what your issue is but I think you've misread something.
[ Reply | Options ]11.20.09, 05:53 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]Poking fun at Hispanic names. So sorry if I misread your intentions. If you read what you wrote, perhaps you can see
[ Reply | Options ]11.20.09, 06:00 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]B and C rhyme with Anita. Examples were meant to be more illiterative than suggestive. Sorry to offend. I like the idea of a little group/unity. There's something special about triplets and actually I just thought the names suggested by OP sounded too forced. No offense meant.
[ Reply | Options ]11.20.09, 06:07 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]^^^meant aliterative.....not illiterative... think I'm signing off. Making too many mistakes and offending posters. Au revoir.
[ Reply | Options ]11.20.09, 06:19 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
LOL
[ Reply | Options ]11.20.09, 06:50 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
I wish you the best. Love the traditional names, but be mindful of too many ending in "a".
[ Reply | Options ]11.20.09, 05:57 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]Helena is my favorite name of all time. I wouldn't do Clarice simply because of Silence of the Lambs. I can't get Anthony Hopkins voice out of my head now. Hello Clarice...
[ Reply | Options ]11.20.09, 06:54 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]Congratulations! All are beautiful names. Yay for you! As a mom of multiples myself I do have to warn you, you are in for a load of (rewarding) work.
[ Reply | Options ]11.20.09, 08:31 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]One of the designers on Extreme Makeover: Home Edition has triplet girls and he and his wife named them Bianca, Scarlett and Azure.
[ Reply | Options ]11.20.09, 09:26 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
[+] Help! I'm running out of day care options!! I'm a full time single mom expecting in J... 15 replies
- Keep calling those you are interested in even if you get a less desirable spot. With infants first time parents often change their minds and decide a nanny or SAH parent or moving to suburbia is better for them....
Talk : : November 20, 2009
Help! I'm running out of day care options!! I'm a full time single mom expecting in Jan, and I put my name on lists in Oct, however I'm finding out that there will be no openings at either of the Manhattan kids clubs (which are the most convenient for me - Union Square area-. Anyone know of any other good full time infant daycares around Union Square? Chelsea? Grammercy?
15 replies [ Reply | Watch | Options ]11.20.09, 10:08 AM [ Flag ]Maybe a synagogue, 14th St Y, McBurney Y?
[ Reply | Options ]11.20.09, 10:10 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]Tried those too.. they don't offer any day care. Ugh!
[ Reply | Options ]11.20.09, 10:16 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]
Ughh, sorry, I might start asking around about family daycares in the area.
[ Reply | Options ]11.20.09, 10:11 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]Chelsea- CP Kids, Preschool of America, Buckle My Shoe
[ Reply | Options ]11.20.09, 10:15 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]Does Church of Immaculate Conception on 14th have a day care facility too - I know they have preschool, but not sure about babies.
[ Reply | Options ]11.20.09, 10:20 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]This is supposed to include all the liscenced day cares in teh city https://a816-healthpsi.nyc.gov/ChildCare/Search.do
[ Reply | Options ]11.20.09, 10:21 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]Keep calling those you are interested in even if you get a less desirable spot. With infants first time parents often change their minds and decide a nanny or SAH parent or moving to suburbia is better for them.
[ Reply | Options ]11.20.09, 10:23 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]Could you do a nanny share?
[ Reply | Options ]11.20.09, 10:41 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]not sure how to find a nanny share?
[ Reply | Options ]11.20.09, 10:59 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]
How about Tutor Time (I think it is 37th btw 3rd and Lex) or I also believe there is a day care at Chelsea Piers
[ Reply | Options ]11.20.09, 10:49 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]38th between 3rd and 2nd
[ Reply | Options ]11.20.09, 10:50 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]I have a visit coming up with them... have you had any experience with tutor time on 38th or 26th? Would you give it a good review?
[ Reply | Options ]11.20.09, 10:52 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]
Chelsea Piers has an excellent daycare.
[ Reply | Options ]11.20.09, 11:03 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]try the children's garden at the general theological seminary and trinity nursery at trinity church downtown. they both had wait lists when we applied and we weren't able to get a spot at either, but you never know.
[ Reply | Options ]11.20.09, 11:16 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]We just moved from CA, originally from Tokyo and my child (3 mths.) is at LoveALot in the East Village. We chose this preschool bc they're the only one in the city that draws from Stanford University's Early Childhood Education program (back to basics) and also offers Japanese classes.
[ Reply | Options ]11.21.09, 08:22 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]
[+] Ivies+Duke+Chicago+MIT+Stanford+Amherst+Williams+Caltech (20005-09): Brearley 53%, Ho... 98 replies
- , you don't supposed the kids who attend these schools have a leg up in terms of wealth, privledge, education, vested parents, etc etc, do you?...
- if nyc privates are so superior to publics and privates anywhere else, why oh why, pray tell, is there not ONE SINGLE NOBEL PRIZE WINNER from any of these schools for the last 100 years? please, someone, anyone, answer!...
Talk : : November 20, 2009
Ivies+Duke+Chicago+MIT+Stanford+Amherst+Williams+Caltech (20005-09): Brearley 53%, Horace MAnn 48%, Trinity 47%, Spence 45%, Chapin 41%, Dalton 39%
98 replies [ Reply | Watch | Options ]11.20.09, 08:36 AM [ Flag ]did you pick out the schools that B sent the most dcs to? please stop already. caltech? isn't that a (gasp) PUBLIC school?
[ Reply | Options ]11.20.09, 08:38 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]np: FWIW I am the poster you slammed below for being some Crazy B mom, I did not post this.
[ Reply | Options ]11.20.09, 08:41 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]omg, there is more than one of you like this? yikes.
[ Reply | Options ]11.20.09, 08:47 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]Okay. Have a nice day.
[ Reply | Options ]11.20.09, 08:49 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]Yes. It's the Crazy B Mom Club.
[ Reply | Options ]11.20.09, 11:51 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]
Caltech is probably one of the toughest ones to get in and it is sort of like MIT
[ Reply | Options ]11.20.09, 08:48 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]of course. but it is not small, ss, private, elitist, or any of the many reasons B moms give for B's alleged superiority.
[ Reply | Options ]11.20.09, 08:51 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]You people really have a bug up your a$$ about this school what it the problem here?
[ Reply | Options ]11.20.09, 08:53 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]no, could replace B with any alleged tt. i have no bone to pick against B specifically.
[ Reply | Options ]11.20.09, 08:56 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]
I would have added Cooper Union. Nobody from Brearly went there. It's extremely competitive bec it's free and their engineering is top notch. Probably smarter kids apply there than MIT or Caltech.
[ Reply | Options ]11.20.09, 08:54 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]That is sort of a random and unqualified comment don't you think?
[ Reply | Options ]11.20.09, 08:54 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]Look up their stats.
[ Reply | Options ]11.20.09, 08:55 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]Stats for what? How bright every kid who applied there is in comparison to all the other kids who applied elsewhere. You are a genius!
[ Reply | Options ]11.20.09, 08:58 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]
That smarter kids apply to Cooper Union over MIT/Cal Tech is not really relevant. CU only offers 3 programs and one is in fine arts. I would say that the smartest boys in the nation apply to Deep Springs College most of all.
[ Reply | Options ]11.20.09, 09:32 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]^^^So let's look at the average SATs for CU vs MIT vs Cal Tech anyway. Cooper Union is 710M, 665V (1375) - 9.26% applicants accepted; MIT is 760M, 710V (1470) - 11.86% accepted; Cal Tech is 785M, 730V (1515) - 17.36% accepted.
[ Reply | Options ]11.20.09, 09:37 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]
FWIW, I know a B girl who transferred to CU.
[ Reply | Options ]11.20.09, 09:54 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]outing myself, I went to Spence and Cooper Union! I also got into Caltech and MIT, but Cooper is free.
[ Reply | Options ]11.20.09, 01:58 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]^^I'm actually not sure what this thread is about, but I never see Cooper discussed so I had to jump in.
[ Reply | Options ]11.20.09, 01:59 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
Shows what you know. You look super smart. Hahahhaa, not.
[ Reply | Options ]11.20.09, 01:16 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
You don't know anything about Caltech, do you? It's private and smaller than almost all of the Ivies.
[ Reply | Options ]11.20.09, 09:39 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]i know, i know, mea culpa. i guess all the california moms have now joined the discussion!
[ Reply | Options ]11.20.09, 09:40 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]
are you insane? Caltech is a smaller MIT. Just as many oddball students as MIT. It's private and just as difficult to get into.
[ Reply | Options ]11.20.09, 11:54 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]More difficult--but since it's here on the West Coast all the wannabes on the East Coast either dismiss it or have never heard of it.
[ Reply | Options ]11.20.09, 01:15 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]i'd heard of it and knew it was a good engineering school, but thought it was public like Va Tech. in any event, I do have a hard time believing it's the top choice of any ss tt type.
[ Reply | Options ]11.20.09, 01:25 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
Cal Tech is not public - it's a private university
[ Reply | Options ]11.20.09, 09:27 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]caltech is a wonderful private famous engineering school. how do you not know that?
[ Reply | Options ]11.20.09, 11:41 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]Cal Tech is not only private, but back in the early 90s when I was applying to college, the average math SAT score there was a perfect 800. I joked that there was no way they were ever going to accept people w anything less, no matter how good their app, bc they were not going to give up that perfect number!
[ Reply | Options ]11.20.09, 11:49 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]
The problem is that if you go to one of these private schools, or even some top notch public schools in 'burbs, you are often "brokered" much like preschools do. You may love Harvard, but if the school decides some other kids are going to be the kids they recommend for Harvard, your chances of getting in are much lower. It's fine if you are the chosen one for the school you love, but if not, you are better off being one of the top students at a no-name public school and applying to that school.
[ Reply | Options ]11.20.09, 08:45 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]This is just not the case. You are never better off at a no name public school in the burbs. We are talking about a 50% 'rate of return' on excellent schools for only 50 dcs. That is 25 every year in the top schools. The other 25 also go to top schools with an exception of one or two, schools that would make any no name public drool. And that is not even beginning to discuss the comparison in the education itself
[ Reply | Options ]11.20.09, 08:48 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]but it's apparently worthy to graduate B and go to a HUGE PUBLIC UNIVERSITY in California. um, ok.
[ Reply | Options ]11.20.09, 08:49 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]Ok, your comment does not address the points in my post, plus you have no idea how many dcs went to Caltech or why. For your piece of mind, it is always worth while to get an education at any of those school instead of any public school.
[ Reply | Options ]11.20.09, 08:51 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]to poster above: maybe if you went to public school, you would know it is peace of mind. lol.
[ Reply | Options ]11.20.09, 08:57 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]Um. Caltech is a TINY PRIVATE university. It has half the number of undergrads as Amherst.
[ Reply | Options ]11.20.09, 09:08 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]oops. sorry, my mistake.
[ Reply | Options ]11.20.09, 09:15 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]
I would choose MIT, Stanford but the other schools are random. I could have chosen different schools to judge. Clearly, B mom put together a list that puts them first. And how she did not include Collegiate is telling. Trinity did not even publish 05-09 stat, so I don't know where she got that number from.
[ Reply | Options ]11.20.09, 08:51 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]Not the b mom who posted this thread, but if Collegiate had its scores posted I believe it would blow brearley out of the water. Better all around school IMO
[ Reply | Options ]11.20.09, 08:53 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]I know. Where is Collegiate?
[ Reply | Options ]11.20.09, 08:56 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]
Sure it is the case. If all you care about is getting into "any" highly ranked college, and you need extra help to achieve that, then a private school is for you. However, unless you are one of Brearley's "chosen" Harvard applicants that year, you probably won't get in. If you are the top student at a no-name school, you have a far better chance of getting into Harvard, and frankly, can easily get into one of the other top schools you list if you are a top student.
[ Reply | Options ]11.20.09, 08:53 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]If all you care about is college admissions and judge a school by that alone than I fear for your DC. The difference a top education makes is immeasurable. Beyond that, you would never convince anyone here that a no name public with 500 students has numbers like any of those listed above. They just don't. Why fight it.
[ Reply | Options ]11.20.09, 08:57 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]but they might know how to use colloquialisms appropriately. like peace of mind.
[ Reply | Options ]11.20.09, 08:59 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]OR they took typing classes because it was far more likely they would have to in their post college careers.
[ Reply | Options ]11.20.09, 09:00 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]lol. it's NOT a typo. you and i both know that. "peac of mind" is a typo.
[ Reply | Options ]11.20.09, 09:01 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]Yes of course I am a moron because I am not spell checking on a chat board. eye roll.
[ Reply | Options ]11.20.09, 09:04 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]grrr. it is not a spell check issue. just admit it, you are completely embarrassed...
[ Reply | Options ]11.20.09, 09:06 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]Swear I would admit it!
[ Reply | Options ]11.20.09, 09:21 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]ok. lol.
[ Reply | Options ]11.20.09, 09:37 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]
and i would also add that df from no name public tutored C grad at her Ivy. This despite the fact they were in class together.
[ Reply | Options ]11.20.09, 09:01 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]LOL -- I think YOU are the one judging a school on college admissions! I'm just pointing out that I'd far prefer my extremely smart dc to apply and attend the school of her choice than to be "told" which school she can apply to because the private school decides which kids should go to which colleges. Of course a no name public with 500 students doesn't have those stats because 490 of them don't even apply! But if you are one of the 10 students who do aspire to those schools, you get a great chance to go to the school YOU want, not the one that helps the private school have good exmission stats! That's what I want for my dc -- don't you?
[ Reply | Options ]11.20.09, 09:10 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]omg, a sane mom.
[ Reply | Options ]11.20.09, 09:12 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]:)
[ Reply | Options ]11.20.09, 09:16 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]
In your anger you failed to address the first part of my post which was pointing out that education, rather than admissions stats, makes a school. That, rather than a perceived shot of HYP by their mother, is what I want for DC. So clearly you would prefer - in your belief that public allows you to go to better schools more easily - that your dc suffer from a poor education so that they can struggle at Harvard rather than a great education and excel at U of C.
[ Reply | Options ]11.20.09, 09:29 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]LOL -- do you think if you call me "angry" enough I'll actually get angry? Because I won't! I just laugh! This post is about admissions stats. I've posted my own opinion on a "better education" elsewhere, but I'll say it again. My sibs and I went from a no-name public to those schools listed above and graduated summa and magna cum laude. Surprise! The top achievers at all those schools are as likely to be from public schools as privates.
[ Reply | Options ]11.20.09, 09:34 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]^^^and the only conclusion I can make if you keep insisting that the education at a private school is far superior is that the kids from private schools are far more stupid to begin with! Because if education was indeed "superior", then smart kid + 13 years "tt" education should easily surpass smart kid + 13 years "poor" education when they get to college, right?
[ Reply | Options ]11.20.09, 09:35 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]NP. I thought everyone knew that at top colleges, the private school kids do well first two years. Then the public school kids catch up and blow them away.
[ Reply | Options ]11.20.09, 11:58 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]
i have posted this question before and i'll post it again. if nyc privates are so superior to publics and privates anywhere else, why oh why, pray tell, is there not ONE SINGLE NOBEL PRIZE WINNER from any of these schools for the last 100 years? please, someone, anyone, answer!
[ Reply | Options ]11.20.09, 09:36 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]Pure numbers.
[ Reply | Options ]11.20.09, 09:46 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]so compare all the tts to bxsci only. or stuy only. or bklyn tech only. or far rockaway HS only, for heaven's sake! or my no name burb public HS. we have 1!
[ Reply | Options ]11.20.09, 09:50 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]Well, you must be right, then. Private school sucks!
[ Reply | Options ]11.20.09, 09:56 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]hey, i'm not the one paying $35k for it.
[ Reply | Options ]11.20.09, 10:22 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]
Well, there is. Murray Gell-Mann attended CGPS and won the Nobel Prize in Physics.
[ Reply | Options ]11.20.09, 10:18 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]that is great. so it can be done. it just seems tts are not doing it.
[ Reply | Options ]11.20.09, 10:21 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]It's possible that the qualities most required to win a Nobel Prize, such as drive, tenacity, and ambition are more likely to be exhibited by smart public school kids than smart private school ones.
[ Reply | Options ]11.20.09, 10:25 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]i think you're right. but clearly their public school education didn't hurt.
[ Reply | Options ]11.20.09, 10:41 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]
NP. NY privates too full of kids who care about shopping and clubbing, not studying.
[ Reply | Options ]11.20.09, 12:00 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
Crazy B moms are active again. INteresting choice of schools.
[ Reply | Options ]11.20.09, 08:47 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]What other school should OP have chosen? I see Collegiate absent but...
[ Reply | Options ]11.20.09, 08:50 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]Depending on what other schools you choose, B's number would def'ly change.
[ Reply | Options ]11.20.09, 08:52 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]That makes no sense, sorry
[ Reply | Options ]11.20.09, 08:54 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]LOL.
[ Reply | Options ]11.20.09, 08:55 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]I see you agree. Enjoy Oprah.
[ Reply | Options ]11.20.09, 08:57 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]
Hey, you left out the B mom who was all upset that dd ended up at SUNY when neighbor's Stuy dc went to Dartmouth.
[ Reply | Options ]11.20.09, 09:04 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]Where was that post? b mother here and I would say that sounds like someone posing as a b mother to get a reaction
[ Reply | Options ]11.20.09, 09:21 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]no, no, it was a serious post from last spring. no one was snarky, people were really supportive, and saying that whatever school it was (i can't remember) is actually strong in the arts. i think she said she felt embarrassed to have spent so much $$$ when neighbor didn't. but people responded like, well, dd got a great education for K-12, and she'll always have that. but if you're at B (I am guessing you are at the lower school), you have to know that in addition to substantial turnover at MS/HS, many dcs just don't go to great colleges.
[ Reply | Options ]11.20.09, 09:29 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]
Why are these the only impressive schools in your mind?
[ Reply | Options ]11.20.09, 09:09 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]Golly, you don't supposed the kids who attend these schools have a leg up in terms of wealth, privledge, education, vested parents, etc etc, do you?
[ Reply | Options ]11.20.09, 09:35 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]They probably have a leg up over you in spelling. What's your point? This is not comparing
[ Reply | Options ]11.20.09, 09:41 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]^^ private vs. public.
[ Reply | Options ]11.20.09, 09:42 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]actually, not even. see "piece of mind," above.
[ Reply | Options ]11.20.09, 09:43 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]LOL.
[ Reply | Options ]11.20.09, 09:45 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]
You know the % of the Bushes that went to Yale? What a special family!! Must be all very smart.
[ Reply | Options ]11.20.09, 09:46 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]Not a Republican, didn't vote for any of them, but last time I checked, they were Presidents and Senators. Who are you?
[ Reply | Options ]11.20.09, 09:48 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]Not sure what your point is. Mine is that posting these stats are meaningless, because the Bushes didn't go to Yale or became Senators because of their own merits, but because they have had several legs up in their lives. The kids who attend these private schools have several legs up, too, so posting what their "exmissions" are does not mean the schools are magical places that churn out Ivy grads.
[ Reply | Options ]11.20.09, 09:51 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]but first they went to yale and harvard! and they got in without graduating from C! bc they got in on the name, not the brain. and there are others like this (well, maybe not this extreme) who come out of C/B/etc. every year.
[ Reply | Options ]11.20.09, 09:52 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]
of GHWBush's 4(?) kids, only Dubya went to Yale. Because after admiting him, Yale decided it could do better than take the bottom-quarter of an Andover graduating class. Bush's 3 other kids did not go Ivy. True story.
[ Reply | Options ]11.20.09, 12:03 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]I just looked the six of them up. Other than GWB, none of them went to great schools. UVa, BC, Tulane, and UofT/Austin. (The first Bush daughter passed away at 4 yo.) Dubya's girls are 50-50 Ivy.
[ Reply | Options ]11.20.09, 06:31 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
I, for one, would like to than you for collecting and posting the numbers. Haven't read a word of the nonsense in between, but I find your post very helpful - are you the one who offered to do this last night? Thx!
[ Reply | Options ]11.20.09, 10:36 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]Did Collegiate do better? Guessing so.
[ Reply | Options ]11.20.09, 02:26 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]Someone posted yesterday that it dropped a bit, but not much.
[ Reply | Options ]11.20.09, 02:35 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]np: Nice try. Collegiate has a higher percentage going to the above schools that Brearley, Chapin etc. Top of the heap.
[ Reply | Options ]11.20.09, 02:45 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]I didn't mean relative to these schools, I meant relative to itself in yrs past. Chill.
[ Reply | Options ]11.20.09, 02:53 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
I think schools with similar sized graduating classes should be compared with each other; i.e., Brearley with Spence, Chapin, NBS, Collegiate, etc and in another group, HM with Trinity, Dalton, etc. It doesn't seem fair if a school gets 5 kids into Harvard, say, and have it total to 10% of their class whereas another school needs to get 20 kids into Harvard for it to count as 10%.
[ Reply | Options ]11.20.09, 02:35 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]Saint Ann's doesn't publish, or do they? Anyone know their recent numbers?
[ Reply | Options ]11.20.09, 02:37 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]http://www.saintannsny.org/info/honorframe.html
[ Reply | Options ]11.20.09, 03:07 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]TY
[ Reply | Options ]11.20.09, 06:10 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
Where did you get these percentages from? I just calculated Brearley and I came up with 45% - not 53% - attending the same schools during those years. It's kind of nitpicky and yet it makes me not believe any of your numbers.
[ Reply | Options ]11.20.09, 03:13 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]You are right. 44.8%. She's cooking her numbers. Her numbers for other schools are lower than they should be.
[ Reply | Options ]11.20.09, 08:35 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
wow. all of you are crazy. so am i for sitting here reading this.
[ Reply | Options ]11.20.09, 05:46 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]lol, you and me both!
[ Reply | Options ]11.20.09, 05:55 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
[+] Based on the Ivy exmissions post, Brearley is a better school than Chapin? 41 replies
- I know a (large) family who has had several generations, I mean every single one of them, go to H...
- small so one or two students in either direction moves the %s. they're all about the same in quality. different parents, cultures perhaps but not education...
Talk : : November 20, 2009
Based on the Ivy exmissions post, Brearley is a better school than Chapin?
41 replies [ Reply | Watch | Options ]11.20.09, 06:36 AM [ Flag ]Br. alum and ivy admission percentages in any year whether a school drops a few points or goes up a few points means nothing when it comes to all the schools in that league. People here who think these schools are only worthwhile because of the number of DCs that go to Harvard one year as opposed to another are sending their DCs there for the wrong reasons. Do remember that we are talking about a class of 45 children, so if one more one year goes to Yale than another school who cares, it doesn't make Br, a 'better' school than Chapin anymore than Chapin would be a 'better' school three years ago for having put more DCs in Yale one year than Br. Also remember there are a number of dcs at those schools who get into ivy and don't always choose that route.
[ Reply | Options ]11.20.09, 06:51 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]I think the number of college legacies throw all of these comparsions out the window.
[ Reply | Options ]11.20.09, 06:55 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]You are wrong. College legacies are really nothing these days. I understand people want to believe that though, but the truth is difference in education. Not saying intelligence necessarily but education and preparedness overall to perform.
[ Reply | Options ]11.20.09, 07:06 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]I really don't believe that college legacies are nothing.
[ Reply | Options ]11.20.09, 07:08 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]I am sure you believe that, but I am on the other side of the fence so my perspective is different and not as skewed toward wanting or needing to believe otherwise. Millions of dollars may make a difference but it would have to be a considerable sum. Not that people that wealthy or willing even here, and coming from those schools you don't really need it
[ Reply | Options ]11.20.09, 07:15 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]I'm not saying that legacy status guarantees an in, or that you can't get in without it. I'm saying it gives you a leg up. Do you really think that H would have such a healthy endowment if this were not true? That every donor is a selfless philanthropist who believes in the school even if their kids can't get in?
[ Reply | Options ]11.20.09, 07:22 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]Getting your Chapin dd into Harvard when she already has a very good shot at it on her own merit does not account for the majority of endowment
[ Reply | Options ]11.20.09, 07:27 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]
you must agree that between two equally qualified candidates the legacy will get preference...
[ Reply | Options ]11.20.09, 07:23 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]No I really don't, I have seen it happen a lot, you cannot always account for a colleges decision year to year. The board may want diversity geographical or racial, they may want more activities, fewer, more arts, more science. Really not every candidate qualified as they are has the exact same strengths.
[ Reply | Options ]11.20.09, 07:26 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]I did college admissions for many years at one of the most competitive in the country. I agree in principal with what you're saying, but I also must tell you that any kind of name recognition IS a good thing for a candidate. It adds weight on the scales.
[ Reply | Options ]11.20.09, 07:29 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]And so name recognition like Collegiate didn't stand out? Come on.
[ Reply | Options ]11.20.09, 07:30 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]I question the veracity of your statement that you did admissions at college, but if you did it sounds as if it was not an Ivy where perhaps endowment means much more.
[ Reply | Options ]11.20.09, 07:31 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]not an Ivy but as competitive as an Ivy if not more. I meant name recognition as in family name.
[ Reply | Options ]11.20.09, 07:34 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]I know what you meant, and I am saying the school name means much more. You can bank on the success rate of how well a student from any of these schools will do in any college.
[ Reply | Options ]11.20.09, 07:37 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]More competitive than an ivy. Goodness, a super ivy?
[ Reply | Options ]11.20.09, 07:38 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]must be REED!
[ Reply | Options ]11.20.09, 07:40 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]hahahahaha
[ Reply | Options ]11.20.09, 07:41 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]I agree with that too, but again I said equally qualified candidates. Don't agree, however, with your statement on success rate. Some of these kids are really burnt out by the time they reach college.
[ Reply | Options ]11.20.09, 07:41 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]yeah, imagine that. Sheesh
[ Reply | Options ]11.20.09, 07:41 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]We were and they still are, some but not the majority. Even the overtaxed ones performed and had the base skills to perform at a higher level with little effort. You must know that to be true. Maybe not an A student but B without much study Now whether that is worth it to waste a spot on the student is the call of the college and can be determined as the student continues but overall that they will perform is not a question.
[ Reply | Options ]11.20.09, 07:45 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]
^^^ based on what do you question my veracity? I am trying to inform you, from my extensive experience, that official policy does not match what actually goes on in the process.
[ Reply | Options ]11.20.09, 07:35 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]I have been involved with admissions on the other end and this does not seem credible to me at all
[ Reply | Options ]11.20.09, 07:41 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]believe what you want then. It's common for people to ignore information which doesn't square with what they want to think.
[ Reply | Options ]11.20.09, 07:43 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]Well said from someone doing the exact same thing
[ Reply | Options ]11.20.09, 07:46 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]
If that is true than why did you post your comment OP? So full of it.
[ Reply | Options ]11.20.09, 07:40 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]
Maybe in the 60s, not any longer
[ Reply | Options ]11.20.09, 07:07 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]I know a (large) family who has had several generations, I mean every single one of them, go to H
[ Reply | Options ]11.20.09, 07:09 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]So do I. I also know another family that for four generations have gone to H, until the most recent who didn't have the grades and went to a UC
[ Reply | Options ]11.20.09, 07:16 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]
I went to H for college, graduated in the late 90s. I had 4 roommates, all of whom were legacies.
[ Reply | Options ]11.20.09, 10:27 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]
Is the point of this post to rile the troops? Brearley, Spence, and Chapin are all excellent schools and they jockey for top honors into HYP every year but the two or three more each year makes no difference and means nothing. If dc is in one of those schools you should count yourself as lucky.
[ Reply | Options ]11.20.09, 07:34 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]but at least a handful of those will be murdoch, kennedy, bloomberg, etc. i don't think they count.
[ Reply | Options ]11.20.09, 07:46 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]another Brearley hater I see. You cannot get through Brearley on a name, you need the brain. You may be able to get in with a name but you will not finish.
[ Reply | Options ]11.20.09, 07:48 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]huh? i am not a B hater. i don't even know what you are talking about? i have no opinion on any of these girls schools! lol.
[ Reply | Options ]11.20.09, 07:50 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]The point is that you know nothing about these schools so why comment.
[ Reply | Options ]11.20.09, 07:52 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]omg. what is wrong with you. all of those people had dds who went or currently go to ss schools. and their dds will get into top colleges even if they graduate from a no-name school anywhere in the country. are all B moms this paranoid and defensive?
[ Reply | Options ]11.20.09, 08:24 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]^^^ and BTW, the bloomberg/kennedy post was my first in this thread.
[ Reply | Options ]11.20.09, 08:26 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]
BS. Brearley is a celeb/billionaire whore beyond even Dalton. Doubt the girls from these families ALL have high 99x3 erbs and SBs to match.
[ Reply | Options ]11.20.09, 06:35 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
agree completely. the gradu
[ Reply | Options ]11.20.09, 06:30 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]the graduating classes are quite small so one or two students in either direction moves the %s. they're all about the same in quality. different parents, cultures perhaps but not education
[ Reply | Options ]11.20.09, 06:31 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
Prize for most obvious post of the day.
[ Reply | Options ]11.20.09, 10:29 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]you know admission season is heating up when the Brearley v. Chapin war begins.
[ Reply | Options ]11.20.09, 06:08 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
[+] I am a single Mom with a 4yr old dd and a 6mo dd. It is tough and I wish dh and I ha... 6 replies
- Bravo! You are a strong woman and wonderful role model for your girls. It is tough. I am separated with two girls and it is a strain. My situation is different and I agree with the other posters -- creating an independent, healthy, happy person (YOU) is what makes all the difference -- your girls will be better off with one happy parent vs two miserable ones. I firmly believe that. And if love strikes again then wonderful!...
Talk : : November 19, 2009
I am a single Mom with a 4yr old dd and a 6mo dd. It is tough and I wish dh and I hadn't split but at the end of the day, I think I often think I'm awesome for pulling it off. Dh shows absolutely no sign of wanting to work it out which is sad, but better than being with him when he didn't want me. Just venting, nothing more. Hello to all you other moms out there!
6 replies [ Reply | Watch | Options ]11.19.09, 04:28 PM [ Flag ]did you split up after dd#2 was born?
[ Reply | Options ]11.19.09, 04:29 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]no, right before. I had a family emergency shortly before dd was born and had to leave to take care of family stuff, etc. That pregnant, it became easier to have baby close to my family and couldn't leave my older dd behind so she came with me. Then I realized, dh really didn't want me to come back so I stayed. then finally got my own place. It's sad, but I guess men often can't be the bad guy and SAY I want out. When I look at it now, I was in denial for years. He loves dds, just not me.
[ Reply | Options ]11.19.09, 04:36 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]I am sad for you, but you sound very strong. sometimes I think I don't love DH and want to leave. Do you have family support?
[ Reply | Options ]11.19.09, 04:49 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
You ARE awesome. What you do is amazing and you're right, it is so much better for you and the kids to be away from him than to be in an unhealthy relationship. Good job!
[ Reply | Options ]11.19.09, 04:34 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]:( well even if DH would be better for you than some other guy, DH isn't moving halfway to meet you again. I would stay cordial with him, you never know, but meanwhile work on making yourself independent and happy. A happy woman is good for kids and attracts other people too. Wishing you the best.
[ Reply | Options ]11.19.09, 04:52 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]Bravo! You are a strong woman and wonderful role model for your girls. It is tough. I am separated with two girls and it is a strain. My situation is different and I agree with the other posters -- creating an independent, healthy, happy person (YOU) is what makes all the difference -- your girls will be better off with one happy parent vs two miserable ones. I firmly believe that. And if love strikes again then wonderful!
[ Reply | Options ]11.19.09, 04:57 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
[+] Therapist mom here - had a long day, on a wave, ask me anything. 30 replies
- definition of “family” – sometimes blood can’t overcome hard personalities, sometimes past experiences affect the way we look at parents, siblings, etc. I have many patients that complain, especially around the holiday season, that they have to go to dinners...
- If she is being picked on or singled out, boost her up as much as you can. Even if it seems "silly" or like overkill, if you...
Talk : : November 18, 2009
Therapist mom here - had a long day, on a wave, ask me anything.
30 replies [ Reply | Watch | Options ]11.18.09, 07:54 PM [ Flag ]Are you bored to death during your sessions?
[ Reply | Options ]11.18.09, 07:57 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]sometimes... sometimes just depressed.
[ Reply | Options ]11.18.09, 07:58 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]this being an anonymous board: do you ever get interested/emotionally involved in your job? Like you think about a patient's problem on the way home?
[ Reply | Options ]11.18.09, 08:00 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]Yes. I have two cases like that - I have a couple that used to swing, stopped, now have a baby, also have a man who got married for all the wrogn reasons, have a baby and isn't really in love with his wife, but loves the kid. It's sad.
[ Reply | Options ]11.18.09, 08:04 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]Thanks. I was always wondering if therapists actually care (sometimes), or they always just secretly look at their watches waiting when we boring wretched souls go away.
[ Reply | Options ]11.18.09, 08:09 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]I do care, especially when people seem to be caged, locked in their own bodies, unable to help themselves.
[ Reply | Options ]11.18.09, 08:11 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]np: I thought therapists weren't supposed to tell people what to do.
[ Reply | Options ]11.18.09, 08:13 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]we don't tell them, but we do offer advice. Especially if they indicate that they want something and don't know how to go about it
[ Reply | Options ]11.18.09, 08:18 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
What is the purpose of a therapist? (seriously, I'm not being snarky.)
[ Reply | Options ]11.18.09, 08:02 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]Do you believe in a classical psychoanalysis, or you think it is over?
[ Reply | Options ]11.18.09, 08:03 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]I think many people these days are so lonely, especially in NYC. So many people get married, have kids, have friends and despite all that are so alone. I think I am a friend for hire sometimes, someone that can listen, and doesn’t judge, gives advice, sheds light on a new perspective, a new outlook. If you can help change someone’s perspective you can have change happen in the physical world.
[ Reply | Options ]11.18.09, 08:08 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]What is your take on the fact that meds can change perspective in a very tangible way?
[ Reply | Options ]11.18.09, 08:12 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]I’m not a Psychiatrist, I’m a LCSW. I am aware of the fact that some people need meds to be able to literally survive. I refer patients to Psychiatrists if I feel that they need more help. In a perfect world talking, opening up, facing issues would get people to straighten up, deal and get better. But in this world it’s not the case, plus some psychotic people do need meds and these are beyond the scope of my practice.
[ Reply | Options ]11.18.09, 08:24 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
Do you have times where you question the value of therapy, and your chosen profession altogether? I know several MSW's who feel this way, my sister is one of them.
[ Reply | Options ]11.18.09, 08:05 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]I do. I don't think it's science. I think of myself as someonw who listens, it's not about analysis.
[ Reply | Options ]11.18.09, 08:08 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
How should I deal with my alcoholic borderline personality father? Cut him out completely? Sad he won't have a relationship with dd but maybe it is for the best.
[ Reply | Options ]11.18.09, 08:11 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]I personally don’t believe in a rigid definition of “family” – sometimes blood can’t overcome hard personalities, sometimes past experiences affect the way we look at parents, siblings, etc. I have many patients that complain, especially around the holiday season, that they have to go to dinners with their family, however they don’t feel close to those people – a lot of anger, hurt bottled in, yet they go to dinner, act, put on a happy face while questioning the whole “production”. Your father may not have been a good father, and he may never be but he can still be an excellent grandfather, loving and caring, drinking problem or not. However, if he is not interested, doesn’t show affection etc, the fact that he is blood doesn’t make him an instant grandfather.
[ Reply | Options ]11.18.09, 08:17 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]He's not a good grandfather though. It is just a show. Sigh.
[ Reply | Options ]11.18.09, 08:22 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]NP - I agree with OP. I would not settle for a fake show.
[ Reply | Options ]11.18.09, 08:24 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
Any advice on surviving 6th grade? I feel so helpless when dd reveals what's going on socially.
[ Reply | Options ]11.18.09, 08:14 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]If she is being picked on or singled out, boost her up as much as you can. Even if it seems "silly" or like overkill, if you tell her she is beautiful or smart or [fill in the blank] literally every day, when she is an adult she will have better self-esteem than all of her friends. If she is one of the ones doing the ostracizing, do what you can to teach her compassion outside of her social circle. Perhaps volunteer work, but not by forcing her to be nice to kids considered outcasts - that will be too hard on her because of the other girls. Also, encourage her to be friends with boys.
[ Reply | Options ]11.20.09, 07:55 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
how many years after therapist and patient stop being therapist and patient is it ok for them to have a romantic relationship?
[ Reply | Options ]11.18.09, 08:26 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]Do you think there is anything that can be done to change a person with a clear cut narcissistic personality disorder, or I should just run away? Is this condition genetic or acquired?
[ Reply | Options ]11.18.09, 08:39 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]How does one go about choosing a good psychologist? What resources would you recommend?
[ Reply | Options ]11.19.09, 03:19 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]I think the therapist went to bed.
[ Reply | Options ]11.19.09, 05:53 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]I'm certain she did but perhaps she'll check this thread if she gets bored again.
[ Reply | Options ]11.19.09, 06:09 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]
Trailer trash mom here- how can I get a MILF with two kids to stop calling my boyfriend to ask if she can move in/spend the night?
[ Reply | Options ]11.19.09, 07:41 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]Was that supposed to be funny? I am just wondering, not sure.
[ Reply | Options ]11.20.09, 05:15 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]She had a real thread earlier about this situation, but not sure if this is the real poster of that thread or someone mocking.
[ Reply | Options ]11.20.09, 09:31 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
Let me preface this by saying that I have definitely benefited from therapy at different times in my life. I do notice, however, that many people who choose to study/practice some sort of mental therapy are generally the people who seem most screwed up. Do you think the majority of people who choose some type of psycho therapy as a profession are trying to fix themselves?
[ Reply | Options ]11.20.09, 07:26 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
[+] Have to get this out! I've been married 15 years. Husband had a two year affair tha... 10 replies
- spell quickly. I'm sorry you were with such a jerk, and I udnerstand wanting the best for DD. I think a strong single mom would be agood lesson roe model for her....
- suffer the same fate as they mature. I couldn't protect them when I was there. At least now I can model good parenting when I have them so they will know the difference. Everyone tells me just to be the best mom I can be, to...
Talk : : November 18, 2009
Have to get this out! I've been married 15 years. Husband had a two year affair that began when I was pregnant 6 years ago (he took a "business trip" with the girl when my DD was 3 weeks old). I found out when DD was one. At the time I was living in another city (because of his career) I hadn't been able to continue my career in that city and I didn't have a social network in that city. He was contrite about the affair but always implied it was my fault (because I wasn't nice enough to him and didn't give him oral sex in the weeks after my daughter was born) he says he should have handled "it" (meaning me) better. We have moved back to Ny and I now have some of my life back (friends in close proximity but my career was destroyed because of a 10 year "break"). I have come to see what a truely abusive person he is (passive agressive, blaming, turning me into a monster). I realize how the entire relationship has always been about his emotions and NEVER mine. I am over it and ready to end it. This is my problem: I cannot fathum why I should now have to turn into a part-time mother to my DD5.5. Alternating holidays? Letting him take her on vacation in the summer? Whole weekends away? Oh, and the girl he was involved with for those two years was completely crazy (threatened me and my daughter) so who knows who he will have DD around. I can't stand this marriage and the stress is starting to affect my health but I am very worried about my daughter and how divorce will affect her. Husband is actually good with her and she is very attached. I do not want to cut him out of her life and I will jump through hoops to make sure that she sees him as many days as possible. I just can't stand the idea of not being with her on holidays and on vacation. The idea that I should have to give her up like this seems absurd. Any thoughts? Be kind :)
10 replies [ Reply | Watch | Options ]11.18.09, 06:46 PM [ Flag ]So sorry for your mess. You need to move on and make a new life for yourself and your dd. You will come to peace with the shared parenting. You are entitled to happiness. It's time to start a new life! GL!
[ Reply | Options ]11.18.09, 07:24 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]Hmm. I have a very faithful, kind husband that I am tempted to leave every month, and you need to know what to do about yours? Social network? Who cares. Get rid of him, for your DD's sake. She shouldn't think that's what women are worth..oral sex?? oy.
[ Reply | Options ]11.18.09, 07:27 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]Just read the 2nd half o fpost.. was hidden. Can't yu get a reallly, really good lawyer? I just don't see how a father can get every other weekend, if they are only doing 1/5th the work before the divorce. And 2, could you daughter e so attached bc you clung to him so? Maybe you have taught her his is an honorable character. Worth breaking that spell quickly. I'm sorry you were with such a jerk, and I udnerstand wanting the best for DD. I think a strong single mom would be agood lesson roe model for her.
[ Reply | Options ]11.18.09, 07:32 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]Basic visitation for fathers is every other weekend, one evening a week and alternating holidays. Unless they have a police record, tro for violence or doing drugs, this is what a judge will give as a minimum.
[ Reply | Options ]11.18.09, 07:47 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]I just think that this is a terrible situation for a child...
[ Reply | Options ]11.18.09, 09:04 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
I just went through a divorce with worse than yours. My ex is retired on multi-millions. Through his manipulation tactics, my visitation has dwindled over three years. First, I didn't get to put them to bed each night. Then, I had 50/50 - stunned and felt like half my body was gone. 2 years later, TRO issued on absolute lies and I had every other weekend and each Wed. night I begged the judge for. I finally gave up and settled, knowing he is an abusive man and has our children most of the time. I don't have the money to match the over $1mil legal bill he has paid to get this done. Really, I don't know what is worse: living scared and abused every day or knowing your children will likely suffer the same fate as they mature. I couldn't protect them when I was there. At least now I can model good parenting when I have them so they will know the difference. Everyone tells me just to be the best mom I can be, to wait and they will vote with their feet. It has been several months and I still feel someone drained my blood from my body. Most days are a little better than the previous. It is hard no matter what you do. Just prepare yourself for divorce before you engage. The abusers are very successful in court because they do not care who they hurt, as long as they win. Liars also do very well.
[ Reply | Options ]11.18.09, 07:42 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]I'm so sorry about what you are going through.
[ Reply | Options ]11.18.09, 07:44 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]omg..i cannot even imagine....i feel for you
[ Reply | Options ]11.19.09, 11:43 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]
One more fact that I thought I would add after reading the last reply...my husband is a very successful lawyer, a litagator.
[ Reply | Options ]11.18.09, 07:45 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]You will lose time with your child if you get divorced. That's just the way it is. Decide which is worse: sucking it up until dd is old enough to speak up to judge as to where she wants to be, or just go ahead with it if you are that unhappy.
[ Reply | Options ]11.19.09, 11:36 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]
[+] vent: Going away next weekend for SIL's wedding. bringing 3 month old db who is being... 69 replies
- nurses to sleep, through the night, at 6:30? Or just til next feeding? You are home every single solitary night of every single week at exactly the same time, without fail? You have never ever had to have a contingency...flexibility in these situations. OP just needs to understand that while a crying baby won't ruin a wedding, squirming, uncomfortable parents of the bride will....
Talk : : November 18, 2009
vent: Going away next weekend for SIL's wedding. bringing 3 month old db who is being nursed. dinner on friday at 7:30 and wedding on saturday at 6:30. since that is db's bedtime/winding down range i told dh i might not be at dinner or have to take her out of ceremony. i could breastfeed her through everything but not sure how that will go over with dh's family (very small wedding). dh is upset at me for saying i might have to leave dinner/ceremony.
69 replies [ Reply | Watch | Options ]11.18.09, 05:51 PM [ Flag ]so what is his solution?
[ Reply | Options ]11.18.09, 05:53 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]op: he think it will be fine. he said i can feed her at both, which i'm not sure about because it is really upscale. his other solution was that he would take her out which makes no sense since it is his family. i told him i'm not upset, it's just life.
[ Reply | Options ]11.18.09, 05:56 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]just nurse her! "upscale" people nurse their babies too!
[ Reply | Options ]11.18.09, 06:03 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]^ or just pump and give her a bottle of bm through the ceremony. what's the problem?
[ Reply | Options ]11.18.09, 06:05 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]at night she's a long term nurser. dh gives her a bottle when he gets home from work and he is ready to nurse less than 10 mins later.
[ Reply | Options ]11.18.09, 06:07 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
i know you're right. i think it is also dh's family, they don't seem that into it (though dh is a big fan). okay, i can do it. *psyching self up*
[ Reply | Options ]11.18.09, 06:06 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]they don't seem "into it"? Into what??? Feeding a child? Seriously. You rock for nursing you db. Don't overthink this. You're feeding your child, which is your child. Do it where and when you need to. A nice throw or shawl is all you need. Enjoy!
[ Reply | Options ]11.18.09, 06:13 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]^ I meant, which is your obligation and duty.
[ Reply | Options ]11.18.09, 06:13 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]thanks!
[ Reply | Options ]11.18.09, 06:18 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
Ditto. At a fine restaurant, my husband asked me once if I would take our db to the bathroom to nurse. I suggested he pick up his plate and join me in the next stall. He became a nursing advocate and I literally nursed around the world in the best hotel lobbies, restaurants and shops. Carry a light blanket and latch on!!!
[ Reply | Options ]11.18.09, 07:25 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
OP: forgot to mention: she will get fussy and still refuses pacifier so that is no help. only hope is if she naps through either and we just move back her bedtime.
[ Reply | Options ]11.18.09, 05:54 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]i agree with dh. this is family so it's kinda hard if you're missing part of the festivities. but just my opinion. as for a solution, i would pump and have a sitter put baby to bed or bring own relative like mother to babysit if you don't trust a stranger.
[ Reply | Options ]11.18.09, 05:57 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]it is out of state (10hr car ride - whoot!) and dh also doesn't want a sitter either. plus, he suggested he leave instead of me - i think he feels guilty that i might miss something but he shouldn't.
[ Reply | Options ]11.18.09, 06:01 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]^^ if it were local i'd have my sister come and help.
[ Reply | Options ]11.18.09, 06:02 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]dh isn't being much help. i'd opt for the shawl + bf as well if that's the case.
[ Reply | Options ]11.18.09, 06:53 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]thank you :)
[ Reply | Options ]11.18.09, 06:54 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
Get yourself a nice, upscale wrap or shawl to cover up db while bf-ing and stay for everything. Not a big deal.
[ Reply | Options ]11.18.09, 06:05 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]i've been using a blanket, guess it is time to move on ;)
[ Reply | Options ]11.18.09, 06:08 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
Baby comes first - end of story. Everyone else needs to suck it up and deal, life will still go on. Adults need to stop being so selfish. I understand it's a special occasion but when a baby needs to eat, a baby needs to eat.
[ Reply | Options ]11.18.09, 06:05 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]ita. you are making an effort by going, but 1st priority is baby.
[ Reply | Options ]11.18.09, 06:07 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]NP. ITA 3. I would ask the bride, know it's silly, but say, would you prefer that I run back to hotel at 4p, 6:30p, and 8pm t nurse baby, or that I bring baby in sling, and step out to nurse. I am completely flexible, want you to enjoy your special day, and must feed my newbie. Ignore the pumper person above. Nursing baby is a priority, dont feel guilty.
[ Reply | Options ]11.18.09, 06:12 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]one does not need to ask another person whether it's "ok" to feed one's child! Just feed her and be discrete about it.
[ Reply | Options ]11.18.09, 06:16 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]One DOES need to ask the bride if one can bring their CHILD to their wedding. Wasn't clear to me that DB was invited. Did I miss that in the post? You cannot just bring a child to a wedding.
[ Reply | Options ]11.18.09, 06:18 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]oh sorry, yes db is invited.
[ Reply | Options ]11.18.09, 06:19 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]It's her SIL, I thought that was a given. No need to yell...
[ Reply | Options ]11.18.09, 06:20 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]? Never heard of a baby, who might cry during vows, being a given as invited to a wedding. never.
[ Reply | Options ]11.18.09, 06:32 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]We have different types of families. This is a newborn and a family member. In my family, that's a given. The baby is 12 weeks old!
[ Reply | Options ]11.18.09, 06:35 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]You're right. You feel entitled that your SIL wants your crying baby at her wedding and my family thinks each should ask first. Two different types.
[ Reply | Options ]11.18.09, 06:38 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]my db was invited! i'm not acting entitled.
[ Reply | Options ]11.18.09, 06:39 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]you are a lunatic! I wasn't the OP. You sounds very angry btw.
[ Reply | Options ]11.18.09, 06:41 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
it is a very small wedding.
[ Reply | Options ]11.18.09, 06:35 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
you're right, i'll ask S
[ Reply | Options ]11.18.09, 06:17 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
wear db in a sling and nurse away. i did this at wedding with 11 week old ds, then he fell asleep in sling for remainder of reception.
[ Reply | Options ]11.18.09, 06:08 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]oooh, my sling! db doesn't really like it for walks so haven't used for a while but that's a good idea!
[ Reply | Options ]11.18.09, 06:09 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]db should love it if it means being attached to your breast while in it! gl!
[ Reply | Options ]11.18.09, 06:11 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]thanks - she does love that aspect! thanks :)
[ Reply | Options ]11.18.09, 06:11 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]I still don't understand why you can't pump either. It's one feeding, one night at it's a once-in-a-lifetime event. Why can't you just do to find a solution that could work for everyone.
[ Reply | Options ]11.18.09, 06:27 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]how does wearing babe in a sling not work for everyone? it certainly works better for db than being shunted off to sitter with a bottle, leaving mom worried and unable to relax during the dinner/wedding.
[ Reply | Options ]11.18.09, 06:29 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]who doesn't the "nurse the baby" solution work for? Seems like it's fine for all. No need to over complicate this.
[ Reply | Options ]11.18.09, 06:30 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]It doesn't work for for her dh's family. In nearly every post on this site the dh's family doesn't seem to get any respect at all. This is a self-describe very small, upscale wedding. In fact it seems like OP is almost defiantly insisting on bfeeding knowing it will upset her ILs. Why CAN'T the db get a pumped bottle?
[ Reply | Options ]11.18.09, 06:39 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]go away
[ Reply | Options ]11.18.09, 06:42 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]OP here: i told dh i would leave. he said i should nurse at events. however, he has been shocked by my suggestion in the past that i would nurse in front of his dad so i am assuming his family would be put out.
[ Reply | Options ]11.18.09, 06:43 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
i alrewady said above that db gets a pumped bottle at night but it isn't enough to help her sleep no matter what we give her, she nurses to sleep. the pumped bottle buys us 5 mins at most
[ Reply | Options ]11.18.09, 06:34 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]do not listen to these naysayers. go with sling like i suggested. once on the breast, no one will know she is there!
[ Reply | Options ]11.18.09, 06:36 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]that's what i'm thinking. after spending the weekend with me my sister said she would never look at a woman covering a baby in a carrier with a blanket the same as that is how i nurse on the go ;)
[ Reply | Options ]11.18.09, 06:38 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
are you saying she is probably going to get fussy at both events if you try to get her to sleep? if that is the case, you definitely need to leave to feed her and get her to sleep. it will totally ruin the wedding to have a baby crying and fussy. what would you want your guest to do if it were your wedding?
[ Reply | Options ]11.18.09, 06:33 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]quite reposting the same thing. We get it...you don't think she should bring the baby!
[ Reply | Options ]11.18.09, 06:36 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]that was my first post. it just took me 30 minutes to get a crying fussy baby to sleep. that would ruin a wedding imo.
[ Reply | Options ]11.18.09, 06:46 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]ruin? you step outside then! This is not rocket science lady.
[ Reply | Options ]11.18.09, 06:48 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]Op said above -quote - "she will get fussy" and refuse pacifier. if that's the case, why even start there at the wedding ceremony? why not go ahead and leave when you start to get her to sleep? right, it's not rocket science, lady!
[ Reply | Options ]11.18.09, 06:52 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]because she wants to nurse her to sleep and enjoy the party. you sure are argumentative.
[ Reply | Options ]11.18.09, 06:54 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]you totally ignore that OP said baby WILL get fussy. grow up
[ Reply | Options ]11.18.09, 07:02 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
op: i would want the guest to feel comfortable either excusing themselves or nursing. we invited babies/children to our wedding and either was fine.
[ Reply | Options ]11.18.09, 06:36 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]is your dh going to be upset that you leave when baby gets fussy? or just that you leave to bf? or either?
[ Reply | Options ]11.18.09, 07:04 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
if you believe a crying newborn could "totally ruin" a wedding, you need to gain some serious perspective. A hurricane could ruin a wedding....a crying baby...not so much...
[ Reply | Options ]11.18.09, 06:40 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]you need perspective and common sense
[ Reply | Options ]11.18.09, 06:49 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]please elaborate.
[ Reply | Options ]11.18.09, 06:50 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]a crying baby that is immediately taken out, no, that doesn't ruin a wedding. a crying fussy baby that is kept in ceremony indefinitely because dh doesn't want wife to leave, yes, that could ruin a wedding. OP has said baby will get fussy b/c that is dbs bedtime and refuses pacifier
[ Reply | Options ]11.18.09, 06:58 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
Also (I posted above about how baby comes first) since CIL invited baby I assume she knows that baby would have to be fed at certain times. If I was getting married I would have no problem with letting a family member nurse during the dinner or ceremony as long as she was being discrete.
[ Reply | Options ]11.18.09, 06:36 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]I'm sorry I'm confused. Your db nurses to sleep, through the night, at 6:30? Or just til next feeding? You are home every single solitary night of every single week at exactly the same time, without fail? You have never ever had to have a contingency plan before this for any reason, like one that might have had to accommodate you and not your dh's family? Really? Find that hard to believe but ok, impressive. I was admittedly not as good a bfeeding mother as you.
[ Reply | Options ]11.18.09, 06:46 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]in THREE MONTHS, why would she need to be somewhere else other than with baby?? geez, i was home every night for a year at exactly the same bedtime with both dcs.
[ Reply | Options ]11.18.09, 06:47 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]np: ITA. I have a 10 month old and I have only left one night where someone else put him down. No need.
[ Reply | Options ]11.18.09, 06:53 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]I see your point, and am still home most nights at dinner/bedtime w/2 dc - lol. I was purposefully never a tethered bfeeder so I had more flexibility in these situations. OP just needs to understand that while a crying baby won't ruin a wedding, squirming, uncomfortable parents of the bride will.
[ Reply | Options ]11.18.09, 07:00 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]and i'm willing to leave - i honestly started this post b/c i couldn't believe dh was upset with me for suggesting that depending on how db was acting i might not be able to stick around!
[ Reply | Options ]11.18.09, 07:05 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
op here: i have not left db at night since coming home rom the hospital. since we will be away from home and she is small neither dh nor i are comfortable with a hotel provided baby sitter. db gets a bottle starting around 6:30 and when finished is handed over to me and is usually asleep in bed by 8pm. this is what works for us.
[ Reply | Options ]11.18.09, 06:50 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]To OP: I think you have some great advice from level headed women who are committed to bf'ing and who are advising you to feed your child in a discrete way. Ignore these bridezillas and carry on.
[ Reply | Options ]11.18.09, 06:52 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]thank you! the nights we have gone out (which are few - maybe 2 or 3 times) i have breastfed discretely if she was not quiet/asleep)
[ Reply | Options ]11.18.09, 06:53 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
OP: thanks for letting me vent and for the advice/suggestions! db might be going through a growth spurt and is having trouble sleeping so i'm out.
[ Reply | Options ]11.18.09, 07:10 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]I took db to weddings, once when she was 4 weeks old and once when she was 4 months old. At 4 weeks, it was easy as pie; I bfed when necessary, and there were lots of family members and others who wanted to hold and entertain her during the reception. At 4 months, it was a little tougher, in part because it was far away and there were fewer people. I ended up leaving the ceremony with her when it seemed she was about to cry. One family member expressed disapproval of bfing "in church." The bride probably would have been fine with it, but she was engaged in a ceremony, so I couldn't ask her. I just decided that it was easiest to temporarily step out. I was usually all about bfing whenever and wherever I felt like it, but at that moment, I decided that db and me (with an easy alternative) were less important than family concerns. Based on that, my advice: see how it goes. You'll know what to do when the time comes.
[ Reply | Options ]11.18.09, 07:18 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
[+] My eldest is in high school now. I just want you to know that most of the stuff you a... 27 replies
- , but some are not as academic as their parents wish. Being organized and being motivated are much more...make sense to me. Also people who insist on single sex education for their K-12 daughters but would never send them to one of the single sex colleges....
- 's great. Those a very good principles to parent by....
- live in the moment when it comes to parenting and our kids. Everyone is just trying to...
Talk : : November 18, 2009
My eldest is in high school now. I just want you to know that most of the stuff you are freaking out about doesn't matter.
27 replies [ Reply | Watch | Options ]11.18.09, 01:03 PM [ Flag ]What does matter? Any tips on what not to do, or what to do, that really end up mattering?
[ Reply | Options ]11.18.09, 01:04 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]I"m not out of the woods yet - but the things I'm happy we did - firm but reasonable boundaries, honor what interests your child, not what is cool or is a resume builder, nurture their friendships and their self esteem. Try not to control everything.
[ Reply | Options ]11.18.09, 01:10 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]Those all sounds very wise. I'm assuming all that helped produce a happy, well-balanced teen?
[ Reply | Options ]11.18.09, 01:22 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]so far so good!
[ Reply | Options ]11.18.09, 02:08 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]That's great. Those a very good principles to parent by.
[ Reply | Options ]11.18.09, 02:14 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
can you elaborate on what you mean? I'm truly curious.
[ Reply | Options ]11.18.09, 01:05 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]maybe not to you. I suppose you have "more important" things to freak about.
[ Reply | Options ]11.18.09, 01:08 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]we started at a prestigious school that you'd all love to get into. Moved away and now in the suburbs, but still very close with friends in NYC. The smart kids are doing fine, but some are not as academic as their parents wish. Being organized and being motivated are much more important than being "gifted". And they become real people! with their own interests so even the best laid plans ..... Just try to keep some perspective. They will all get into a good college. Maybe not Harvard. Maybe yoru kid would hate Harvard anyway!
[ Reply | Options ]11.18.09, 01:09 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]NYC does have a significant population to whom education is fundamentally important. Not that the same isn't true of people in the suburbs, but we're very condensed here.
[ Reply | Options ]11.18.09, 01:13 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]btw, my 2 kids attended academically *prestigious elementaries, took an active role in HS choices and were very clear about the colleges they wanted to attend.They have their own interests and personalities; education is among those.
[ Reply | Options ]11.18.09, 01:15 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]Aren't you the lucky ducky who managed to produce such perfect dcs.
[ Reply | Options ]11.18.09, 01:46 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
LOL, I'm in an affluent NYC suburb. I can assure you that education is just as important here.
[ Reply | Options ]11.18.09, 02:07 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]Excuse me,if my allowance of your presence in my post wasn't sufficient to allay your indignation.To poster above yours: Yes, I am a lucky person. I'd be lucky no matter what our kids' interests were. Perfect isn't how I describe people.
[ Reply | Options ]11.18.09, 02:41 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]You sound like you "managed" your kids' education and direction to get to these circumstances.
[ Reply | Options ]11.18.09, 02:43 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]You can be sure that we made the choices for early ed and guided them through their choices later. That is our job.
[ Reply | Options ]11.18.09, 02:48 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
sounds good. I'm not Harvard crazed so this speaks to me. I went to a very small college and it was great. It amazes me that everyone here wants small class size for ongoing, but so HYP obsessed where their DCs will be in these huge classes.
[ Reply | Options ]11.18.09, 01:13 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]NP: I always think that that is so funny! Just doesn't make sense to me. Also people who insist on single sex education for their K-12 daughters but would never send them to one of the single sex colleges.
[ Reply | Options ]11.18.09, 01:40 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]the hypocrisy I love is when people are OBSESSED with TT schools leading of course to HYP, but then they flame the guys on wall street. um, did you expect your kid to choose to be a teacher after all the top education?
[ Reply | Options ]11.18.09, 02:10 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]I know many who graduated from Ivies and became teachers, just guessed they have a higher calling or are just plain not obsessed with money.
[ Reply | Options ]11.18.09, 02:40 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
I have a number of friends who attended Harvard. Not one of them hated it.
[ Reply | Options ]11.18.09, 01:14 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]but you must admit it's not right for everyone. FWIW I know someone who liked it but who would state the negatives too.
[ Reply | Options ]11.18.09, 01:18 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
I'm not sure what you're trying to say. I have trouble believing that if we get shut out of privates and public G&T and have to go to our terrible zoned gen ed it wouldn't matter. Your experience is tt private vs suburbia. These aren't my options.
[ Reply | Options ]11.18.09, 01:16 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]well of course it is. FIrst there are many privates, not just TT. and there are good zoned publics in NYC and of course there are the burbs. Many of those options are available to you if you are flexible and well adjusted.
[ Reply | Options ]11.18.09, 02:09 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]good zoned publics are available if you are willing to move to the zone and if you get lucky and aren't capped out. I suppose moving is what you mean by flexible. Not sure what you mean by "well adjusted". And there aren't enough private spots even at the worst privates for everyone who applies.
[ Reply | Options ]11.18.09, 03:06 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
Me too, I have a HS teen who scored 99+ and attends TT school in NYC. You are so right in that they define who they are and what their interests are not you. It is so frustrating that they ignore their "given talents" to pursue their "interest", but they have to live their own lives and not your dreams.
[ Reply | Options ]11.18.09, 01:20 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]You can say this about ANYTHING though. I conceived through IVF but it would be sort of insensitive for me to go onto a message board for people struggling with infertility and IVF and say, "I have 6 year old twins now. I just want you to know... blah, blah, blah". See what I'm saying? We all KNOW that ERB scores won't matter a hoot once our kids are in HS, just as it doesn't matter how many eggs were retrieved during my IVF cycle now that 2 of those eggs are in 1st grade... but we all live in the moment when it comes to parenting and our kids. Everyone is just trying to do their best. Nice for YOU that you're past all that, congrats?
[ Reply | Options ]11.18.09, 03:06 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]Difference is that TTC is quite uncertain; you must go through certain steps to have a chance at success. But OP's point is that DCs grow up and get educated regardless of the details we're sweating.
[ Reply | Options ]11.18.09, 06:42 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
[+] My 3-year old has swine flu and so I stayed home from work on Mon and Tues. My boss ... 85 replies
- take care of her children unless she was a single parent?...
- a dreadful attitude toward work/life balance of working parents and needs to get out of the dark ages....are men who want the ability to assume 50% parenting responsibilities without having it threaten their career. Shame on...What does this mean? If OP is the only parent that takes days off, then her boss has a...
Talk : : November 18, 2009
My 3-year old has swine flu and so I stayed home from work on Mon and Tues. My boss left me a voicemail this morning saying how "disappointed" he was that my DH didn't stay home with our DS yesterday. I don't even know how to respond! I work for a co with 3 employees, I have ZERO benefits or job security and they change my hours willy nilly to fit their checkbook. And my DH, who is top mgmt and his very large firm, is supposed to stay home? How would you respond?
85 replies [ Reply | Watch | Options ]11.18.09, 12:23 PM [ Flag ]Disappointment is part of life.
[ Reply | Options ]11.18.09, 12:26 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]I guess his side of the argument is that when you're out, the company's manpower is down 33%. I think he is pretty rotten, though.
[ Reply | Options ]11.18.09, 12:29 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]Well, I worked from home, so manpower wasn't really affected. He's made the comment in the past that he feels like he is "subsidizing" my DH's firm. I was stunned when he said that and had to point out the fact that DH's firm actually subsidizes MY firm by providing me with all the benefits that I don't get here, therefore making it possible for me to work here!
[ Reply | Options ]11.18.09, 12:34 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]Why hire a woman who misses work regularly to take care of her children unless she was a single parent?
[ Reply | Options ]11.18.09, 12:52 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]oh shut up - 2 days is hardly "regularly"
[ Reply | Options ]11.18.09, 01:10 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]regularly = every time her kids are sick. Pretty regular to me. But since I hurt your feelings, I'm sorry.
[ Reply | Options ]11.18.09, 01:17 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]np: who wrote the above? a man or a woman? and are you wohm or sahm if it was a woman?
[ Reply | Options ]11.18.09, 05:57 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
2 days this time, but since this is obviously an issue that comes up regularly, it's 2 days regularly.
[ Reply | Options ]11.18.09, 01:21 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
I don't get it, why is manpower not affected because you work from home?
[ Reply | Options ]11.18.09, 12:50 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
You are going ot hate my response. I think working women should make every effort to make sure they are not handling 100% of the childcare duties no matter how senior their spouses are. It just causes a circle of women not getting promoted. I foudn it very annoying whem my female colleague missed so many work days, and I had to cover, and never expected her husband, also a senior law firm guy, to miss. She was pretty senior too, mind you. It's one more reason to hire a man over a woman. i don't care how senior your hsuband is, he's a dad too. He should stay home every other day with your child. Really.
[ Reply | Options ]11.18.09, 12:46 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]*small voice* I agree *hanging head in feminine shame*
[ Reply | Options ]11.18.09, 12:48 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]are you op?
[ Reply | Options ]11.18.09, 12:50 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]No, NP sorry.
[ Reply | Options ]11.18.09, 12:51 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
And by the way, what do your benefits and pay have to do with who should handle the childcare responsibilities. It seems like youa re acknowledging that your DH should NOT miss work for your child, since it miaght negatively affect his job, however you are questioning why your missing work negatively affects your job.
[ Reply | Options ]11.18.09, 12:48 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]i don't hate your response, i just disagree with it.
[ Reply | Options ]11.18.09, 12:51 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]Why don't you find a new job, and in the interview, sugggest to the interviewer that your DH has a very senior level job, so will not be able to miss his work to take care of impromptu matters with the kids-- you will handle these. Make it clear you will be taking the kids to doctor visits, and covering flus, etc, and make sure this is OK with new employer.
[ Reply | Options ]11.18.09, 12:53 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]all that is personal information. it doesn't matter what her dh does (in our home, dh works a blue collar job, so can't take time off). you don't ask permission to be human. shame on her boss.
[ Reply | Options ]11.18.09, 12:58 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]It doesn't matter what her DH does, ITA. What does matter is how many days she is missing work. If it is 2 days a year, I am certain her boss would not mind. If it is 5, that's significant.
[ Reply | Options ]11.18.09, 01:22 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
most jobs give you a certain number of personal and sick days which you may use for whatever purpose and for which they should not begrudge you.
[ Reply | Options ]11.18.09, 01:01 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]moreover, your boss can't mandate the equity in your home.
[ Reply | Options ]11.18.09, 01:11 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]No, but he can tell you that you can't take days off without notice.
[ Reply | Options ]11.18.09, 01:16 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]how much notice is one supposed to be able to give for sick days. Hello boss, I will contract the flu next week and will be taking 2 days off.
[ Reply | Options ]11.18.09, 01:28 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]and i feel a bout of stomach virus coming in january. stay tuned.
[ Reply | Options ]11.18.09, 01:30 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]This is specifically in response to "can't mandate equity in your home." Well, no, he can't. But an unscheduled day off is an unscheduled day off, and he does have a right to ask that you minimize those (by having DH take a turn).
[ Reply | Options ]11.18.09, 01:31 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]he shouldn't bring your husband into it at all. he can ask that you minimize, and sh*t happens, or h1n1 happens.
[ Reply | Options ]11.18.09, 01:40 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]I don't disagree, but I think asking you to minimize a sick child is effectively the same as asking DH to take a turn. So yes, I think he could've been more tactful but the message is the same. Unplanned missed work day sucks for managers, especially in such a tiny company.
[ Reply | Options ]11.18.09, 01:42 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
ITD. Sick leave is for you, not DC. Last minute days off, prolonged vacations, etc., are all not okay even if you have the days.
[ Reply | Options ]11.18.09, 01:14 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]Not the case, my employment contract specifically states that I can use sick days for sick DC's.
[ Reply | Options ]11.18.09, 01:23 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]not most places, not even in my tiny 7 employee shop
[ Reply | Options ]11.18.09, 01:26 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]not so fast - sometimes it's for children.
[ Reply | Options ]11.18.09, 01:27 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]ITA. How many people actually use up all of their days off?
[ Reply | Options ]11.18.09, 01:30 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]My company calls it "unplanned time off" and doesn't specify who/what it should be used for.
[ Reply | Options ]11.18.09, 01:30 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]Since OP's company has three employees, I doubt they have anything resembling this policy.
[ Reply | Options ]11.18.09, 01:32 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]I replied above that my employment contract specifically states that I can use my sick days for my DS.
[ Reply | Options ]11.18.09, 01:35 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]I personally never use all of my personal sick days, even though they could be used for DC. DH and I take turns.
[ Reply | Options ]11.18.09, 01:38 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
That's a good point. If you have x personal days, and don't go over, then just call your boss and saying you are taking a personal day, not need to supply any more info.
[ Reply | Options ]11.18.09, 01:18 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
ITA. DH's job is substantially senior to mine, but he's stayed home/worked from home on days when I had to go in. We take it on a day-to-day basis - if he's got to be in a face-to-face meeting, they he goes in, if I have clients coming in, he stays home. On days when both of us need to put time in the office, we have been known to trade off (both of us work 20 minutes from home, in opposite directions). It's not always me missing work and both of our bosses know this.
[ Reply | Options ]11.18.09, 12:56 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]Another WOHM and ITA
[ Reply | Options ]11.18.09, 12:57 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]I am stunned so many WOHM would agree with this response - the U.S. has a dreadful attitude toward work/life balance of working parents and needs to get out of the dark ages. Women want to or have to work, and there are men who want the ability to assume 50% parenting responsibilities without having it threaten their career. Shame on you
[ Reply | Options ]11.18.09, 01:15 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]NP: ???? It sounds like you and the OR agree with each other, so I'm not sure where the "shame on you" is coming from.
[ Reply | Options ]11.18.09, 01:20 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]Who are you shaming. You think this or any woman should be able to take off work everytime her kids are sick? My kids have missed over 10 days of school already, and it's November. Kids are sick A LOT. Spouses need to share responsilibility,
[ Reply | Options ]11.18.09, 01:20 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]What does this mean? If OP is the only parent that takes days off, then her boss has a right to be annoyed. We are only saying that DHs need to share the burden, and that being a woman in and of itself does not mean you should always be the one to miss work. We're AGREEING with you.
[ Reply | Options ]11.18.09, 01:25 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
please, please, please tell this to my dh, who always says "but i have a lot of work to do!!"
[ Reply | Options ]11.18.09, 02:06 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
i wouldn't respond at all. he's disappointed - how fascinating for him - he'll have to get over it. (you need to consider another job, though)
[ Reply | Options ]11.18.09, 12:48 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]DH and I try to be fair about the days we take off for DS, but it doesn't always work out that way. He has the more demanding job, so I take off 75%. Like the other poster said, though, if you're always doing 100% I can see where the annoyance comes from.
[ Reply | Options ]11.18.09, 12:51 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]So sorry, I know how you feel. My boss, who has a SAHW, once told me "you know my kids get sick too, and I manage to come into the office". Not sure what he was saying there, friend in HR said that was actionable not that I would go there. My dh does actually take alot of the days, but I don't report it to my boss that that happens, he doesn't know the number of times I have come in when child is sick.
[ Reply | Options ]11.18.09, 12:54 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]As a mom I sympathesize with you. As a manager and if this happened all the time, I agree with your boss. Sorry.
[ Reply | Options ]11.18.09, 12:54 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]please then do us all a favor and hire only men at your workplace so you don't have to worry about it
[ Reply | Options ]11.18.09, 01:18 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]Men/women have nothing to do it. If I had an employee that regularly missed work for whatever reason, it's going to cause all sorts of problems.
[ Reply | Options ]11.18.09, 01:27 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
I'm a BigLaw partner and so is dh, and there is no reason at all that your husband cannot pick up some of the childcare responsibilities. No doubt one of the reasons that you are forced to work on such unreasonable terms is because you carry all the weight at home. DH needs to step up at least some of the time.
[ Reply | Options ]11.18.09, 12:55 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]OP here - so funny to me that you are all making the assumption that my DH doesn't take time off to stay with our DS when he's ill or otherwise, quite the contrary! This board is ridiculous! I posted earlier this summer about a funny text I got from my DH while he was chaperoning a field trip, and I got questions regarding whether he was unemployed and chaperoning field trips is the mom's responsibility, etc! So ridiculous. This just happened to be a week where my DH could not take off, so be it. And, yes, I do have sick and personal days that I should be able to use at my OWN discretion.
[ Reply | Options ]11.18.09, 01:18 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]It's a pretty reasonable assumption to make, based on what you wrote. ("And my DH, who is top mgmt and his very large firm, is supposed to stay home?")
[ Reply | Options ]11.18.09, 01:22 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]ITA. You explicitly stated that he is "top mgmt" [in] his very large firm," otherwise, how would we have known. I'm sorry your kids are sick. That stinks. I think you might need a nanny. Or a new job with a more understanding boss.
[ Reply | Options ]11.18.09, 01:26 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
You kind of said it in your post "my dh, who is top mgmt. . ." I'm one of the ORs above, and I sympathize. Boss never knows that dh is home with the kids unless I'm annoying and report to him that I came in when my ds was sick. . . GL to you, hope the worst is over for the swine flu.
[ Reply | Options ]11.18.09, 01:25 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]I agree, didn't make any assumptions about your husband, but posted that your boss can't mandate equity in your house. Maybe you should call and not give him any information, and say you're working from home.
[ Reply | Options ]11.18.09, 01:26 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]We only can make do with what you posted, and this is what you implied.
[ Reply | Options ]11.18.09, 01:28 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
My DH quit his job 18 months ago to be a SAHD and I think not having to play "my job is more important than your job" every time one of our DC gets sick is probably one of the biggest benefits. Better for my career, better for our marriage. The American workplace has a long way to go in terms of being accommodating to working parents.
[ Reply | Options ]11.18.09, 01:25 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]Well, my world is rooted in reality, not a power struggle. My DH's job IS more important than my job. If we lose my job, whatever, if we lose his job, then we lose our benefits, etc. That's a much bigger worry.
[ Reply | Options ]11.18.09, 02:53 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]So if you think of your job as not important, it's probably showing and that's what your boss is reacting to.
[ Reply | Options ]11.18.09, 03:45 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]I didn't say it wasn't important, I said that my DH's job is MORE important.
[ Reply | Options ]11.18.09, 03:55 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]Same difference to your boss.
[ Reply | Options ]11.18.09, 04:13 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
OP again, and for all of you who are assuming this is such a "regular" thing, my DH's firm actually provides back-up childcare for instances like this, but there is, understandably, a swine flu exclusion this year.
[ Reply | Options ]11.18.09, 01:30 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]Sigh... one more time: We are only responsible for the information that you give us. It seems unreasonable for a boss to complain about two days off if it's a first occurrence or rare occurrence. If that were indeed the case, we *assumed* you would highlight that in your post. But you didn't. So at best your post was unclear and did not provide enough information, but that's your fault, not the fault of the responders who gave replies based solely on the information you provided. We're not mind readers.
[ Reply | Options ]11.18.09, 01:35 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]OP asked the board how they would respond and no one even really answered. Just made a bunch of assumptions and gave their opinions. If she had asked for an opinion, she probably would have included more details.
[ Reply | Options ]11.18.09, 01:37 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]NP: If she had left out the sentence about her DH being too busy and important to miss work, she would have gotten better responses. (And I'm not sure why she even included it if DH regularly takes off work for stuff like this like she claims.)
[ Reply | Options ]11.18.09, 01:40 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]ITA. No even sure what the importance of DH's job or the no-benefits of her job have anything to do with it. A job is a job. She took it. She agreed to it. The fact that they offer her no benefits is not an excuse for her to do whatever she wants.
[ Reply | Options ]11.18.09, 01:47 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]Wow, a woman stays home with a sick child, uses sick days that she is contractually allowed to use for her sick child and now she is being accused of doing "whatever she wants"? You're a moron...
[ Reply | Options ]11.18.09, 02:29 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]YEs, it's your job. Do accountants take vacation 4/15? Do u take vacation wo advanced notice? Do you resch MD appts if needed? Just bc you get these benefits does not mean you can use them whenever you want. Doesn't matter if you are a man or a woman. Op's boss is angry bc he clearly needed her there, and she had an alternative.
[ Reply | Options ]11.18.09, 03:42 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]Sick time and vacations are not even comparable. You are indeed a moron.
[ Reply | Options ]11.18.09, 03:57 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]Sick time for DC when there is another caregiver is
[ Reply | Options ]11.18.09, 04:07 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
All the debate centered around the "You're going to hate my response" post. So no, no one was answering OP's question, but a spin-off, which is fine.
[ Reply | Options ]11.18.09, 01:41 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
So then tell your boss that this was an extenuating circumstance that will never repeat itself and you apologize for the inconvenience. But that's really not how you described the situation in your original post.
[ Reply | Options ]11.18.09, 01:38 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]ITA
[ Reply | Options ]11.18.09, 01:39 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]bah. don't apologize.
[ Reply | Options ]11.18.09, 01:52 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
a dh (and a boss): this is why I don't want to know why people are out. You work X number of days you get Y number of days off. So, 1. don't talk about why you are out. Just that you are. 2. why does your boss presume to know when your husband does/does not work?
[ Reply | Options ]11.18.09, 01:54 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]thank you!! people share too much information, then get dinged over it.
[ Reply | Options ]11.18.09, 01:57 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]Well, if it's an unscheduled day off, then some explanation should be provided. If it's scheduled, then who cares?
[ Reply | Options ]11.18.09, 02:03 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]If you work in an office of 4 people, they either know you are a good worker or not. I tell my staff, "Don't abuse it and don't tell me why you are not here. I really don't want to know."
[ Reply | Options ]11.18.09, 02:49 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]Sounds like OP is not a good worker based on boss's reaction.
[ Reply | Options ]11.18.09, 03:47 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]I wouldn't jump to that conclusion at all. You know nothing about her or her boss and, in this economy, if she were a shitty worker at a THREE person firm, she would be replaced.
[ Reply | Options ]11.18.09, 03:58 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]Ita. One of my employees take off all the time for her sick DS, and I 100% support her bc she works hard. If this is OP's first time off and get boss is bent out of shape, clearly something else is going on here.
[ Reply | Options ]11.18.09, 04:12 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
i think your boss's comments were overly personal, but i don't agree that you should always be the one to take time off work, just because your husband is in a senior mgmemt position. I am a manager and I wouldn't want to hire someone who took 100pc responsbility for childcare on the grounds that her husband was too senior to do it.
[ Reply | Options ]11.18.09, 02:54 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]You obviously haven't read the entire post.
[ Reply | Options ]11.18.09, 03:59 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]Np: I'm inclined to stick to this version. I just find it hard to believe that she would be yelled out for using two days of sick leave in Nov when she doesn't do it all year round.
[ Reply | Options ]11.18.09, 04:15 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
I would think that as a senior person, like your dh, assuming no pressing conflict, should easily be able to take off. I'm a big law partner & one of the benefits is that I can take off whenever I need/want to without having to explain it to anyone. My dh otoh is midlevel in his job & gets nickel & dimed over time off.
[ Reply | Options ]11.18.09, 05:11 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
[+] Non-visual diversity and only applied to 6 schools, most tt. Too few? 36 replies
- Speaks multiple languages? One parent from another country?...
- : single gay parent. On the outside, just a single parent (non-visual) but diversity in that we're a gay...want to know about the family makeup with any single parent. She would have to actively hide it to...
- op: I have been outright asked about the parenting situation in interviews--which, frankly, pisses me off. I'm...
Talk : : November 18, 2009
Non-visual diversity and only applied to 6 schools, most tt. Too few?
36 replies [ Reply | Watch | Options ]11.18.09, 09:12 AM [ Flag ]yep, if you're committed to private or you have a connection
[ Reply | Options ]11.18.09, 09:14 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]here's the math. since acceptance rates are around 10%, you need to apply to about 10 schools. of course, depending on the kid, you could still get shut out or have multiple accepts
[ Reply | Options ]11.18.09, 09:15 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]There's still only a 10% chance you'll get into each of those 10 schools. That's like saying that since it's 50:50 whether you'll have a boy or a girl each time, you should have two kids and you'll have one of each.
[ Reply | Options ]11.18.09, 10:29 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]i know i know ... i was a math major in college. the events are statistically independent (actually, in applying to schools they're prob not). the point is that with such low odds generally, you need to apply to more
[ Reply | Options ]11.18.09, 10:54 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]
ERBs? Zoned for good public?
[ Reply | Options ]11.18.09, 09:14 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]ERBs excellent. Public school would be acceptable as an option though we'd prefer private
[ Reply | Options ]11.18.09, 09:16 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]poster from above. if that's the case, 6 should be enough
[ Reply | Options ]11.18.09, 09:17 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]OR: agreed, 6 should be ok. Why pay for a second or third tier private if you have a decent public option?
[ Reply | Options ]11.18.09, 09:44 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]
99 or lower?
[ Reply | Options ]11.18.09, 09:30 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]99 x 3
[ Reply | Options ]11.18.09, 09:44 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]Should be fine (unless DC is too young), no need for the diversity card
[ Reply | Options ]11.18.09, 10:06 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]np: Yes birthday is the wild card here, even stellar ERB will not do anything if dc is deemed young.
[ Reply | Options ]11.18.09, 10:35 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]
Depends. What is the diversity? Although I think 8 is always a good number.
[ Reply | Options ]11.18.09, 09:17 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]What's non-visual diversity mean?
[ Reply | Options ]11.18.09, 09:18 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]Speaks multiple languages? One parent from another country?
[ Reply | Options ]11.18.09, 09:34 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]That to many schools is more relevant than visible diversity.
[ Reply | Options ]11.18.09, 09:36 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]disagree--only visual diversity counts at any of these schools.
[ Reply | Options ]11.18.09, 09:40 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]
op: single gay parent. On the outside, just a single parent (non-visual) but diversity in that we're a gay family
[ Reply | Options ]11.18.09, 09:46 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]np: oh, well then, you're in. Don't worry about it. 6 is fine.
[ Reply | Options ]11.18.09, 09:47 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]god, you people have no shame, do you?
[ Reply | Options ]11.18.09, 09:48 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]excuse me? Is that supposed to be funny or something?
[ Reply | Options ]11.18.09, 09:55 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]no, it's not. your sexual orientation entitles you to privilege in admission? i hope *that* was supposed to be funny (it certainly is "or something").
[ Reply | Options ]11.18.09, 10:07 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]I sure think it does--she represents a kind of lifestyle diversity that I want my dc to be as aware of, respectful of, and comfortable with as any other kind of diversity, visible or not. It's not that she "thinks she's entitled to privilege," it's that she is, in fact, more desirable than you and me from any decent school's perspective, and I'm happy about that. -np
[ Reply | Options ]11.18.09, 10:32 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]
i think it depends on the school as to whether this "diversity" matters at all
[ Reply | Options ]11.18.09, 09:51 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]NP: It matters at every single school in new york.
[ Reply | Options ]11.18.09, 10:33 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]
How will a school know you're gay? Are you planning on hitting on somebody during the interview?
[ Reply | Options ]11.18.09, 10:04 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]exactly. diversity!
[ Reply | Options ]11.18.09, 10:06 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]The school will presumably ask about the dc's father and want to know about the family makeup with any single parent. She would have to actively hide it to have it go unnoticed.
[ Reply | Options ]11.18.09, 10:37 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]yes, but who the single mom chooses to sleep with shouldn't really enter into it, should it?
[ Reply | Options ]11.18.09, 11:12 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]and op would either say "dc is adopted" or "I had dc with a sperm donor" or "dcs biological father sees her/doesn't see her". How does "I'm gay" come into this unless OP wants special status?
[ Reply | Options ]11.18.09, 11:15 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]op: I have been outright asked about the parenting situation in interviews--which, frankly, pisses me off. I'm not going to lie about it so I say that I had dc w/former parner and we split up. Then they ask if "he" is involved at all and I say that no, "she" is not.
[ Reply | Options ]11.18.09, 11:51 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]It shouldn't piss you off: they're trying to assess the stability in the child's life - if someone is currently separating, etc. You can't hope that your gay single status will work to your advantage, then be annoyed that they want to know more about it.
[ Reply | Options ]11.18.09, 11:57 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]YOu can't have it both ways OP, both hoping to benefit from being gay and objecting to being asked about it. Very hypocritical.
[ Reply | Options ]11.19.09, 07:56 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]
What about a little rainbow lapel pin?
[ Reply | Options ]11.18.09, 10:41 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]
Depends on your kid. We had no diversity and applied to 7 (5 of which were tt) and did fine.
[ Reply | Options ]11.18.09, 10:35 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]we got into top 2 choices (strong erb etc), but still applied to 10. Too fearful of a shutout--think of the extras as catastrophic insurance---also, I actually found it interesting seeing all of the schools--logistical nightmare for 2 working parents but we did it
[ Reply | Options ]11.19.09, 07:58 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]
[+] How is it that my child scored 98's on ERB's at 4 and is now a 5th grader (10)in the ... 35 replies
- - how would they know it. They are so young. Not all parents sit and drill their kids with facts. Not all give them blocks...taken. The joke is I was definately on the more laid back side of parenting, and alwaus shook my head at parent who drill babies. Perhaps the joke is a little bit on me as well, because I believed the hype of...
- Yes she is in the middle at her single sex. You all were very helpful. Brought me back to my senses...
Talk : : November 18, 2009
How is it that my child scored 98's on ERB's at 4 and is now a 5th grader (10)in the middle of pack at her single sex? She was not prepped in any way for ERB's as a preschooler, unless you consider preschool as prep. She was reading when she enter K, as far as age she is in the middle for her grade with an April birthday. I just don't get it, and am considering tutoring since she seems to be struggling to keep up. Advice, thoughts? Thinking about public school for High School since what I thought was a great private has not helped my child reach her potential. Unfortunately this is a real post.
35 replies [ Reply | Watch | Options ]11.18.09, 07:57 AM [ Flag ]What does the school say? Are they recommending tutoring?
[ Reply | Options ]11.18.09, 07:59 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]Not yet, but they will evaluate for reading since she appears to have comprehension gaps.
[ Reply | Options ]11.18.09, 08:00 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]Is she really struggling to keep up? If she is in the middle of the pack, she may not be, but you have to be comfortable that she is not the absolute best in every subject. If she needs help with reading comp, that is easy enough for you to work with her at home on. I can see tutoring if there is a subject she is actually falling behind on but not just if she is in the middle academically. And, FWIW, 98 ERBs are a dime a dozen. Does not indicate higher intelligence among the private school students.
[ Reply | Options ]11.18.09, 08:04 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]:) Wow this board is alot more helpful than I remember when I was here a few years back. You folks are all raising very helpful points! She is a strong reader, but struggles in class assignments with comprehension writing assignments. At home obviously more relaxed and needs far less guidance. For what it is worth her teachers get her. But it did surprise me when her teacher mentioned reading evaluation.
[ Reply | Options ]11.18.09, 08:12 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]
high score on ERB at 4yo is not necessarily her "full potential". by 5th grade there are other issues - is she self motivated, is she interested, does she care about school, etc/
[ Reply | Options ]11.18.09, 08:01 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]She is not always self motivated, loves/hates her school depending on the "disagreement" that day, very sensitive. But like all kids sweet and loving the next minute.
[ Reply | Options ]11.18.09, 08:17 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]sounds like she needs a lot of attention and public school would be a worse option.
[ Reply | Options ]11.18.09, 05:12 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
Maybe your kid would have done less well if in public for elem. How bad was the test score? How have her grades and report cards read? if she is successful along those lines, maybe she is a bad test taker. the test for older kids includes stuff like reading comp, which you can't test at 4. If you are really concerned you should pursue a neuro psych or psycho ed testing, which tell you about HOW your DD learns and where she is strong and weak and what type of school may be most appropriate. Has school said she is not keeping up? Are they worried?
[ Reply | Options ]11.18.09, 08:02 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]She is usually described as slow to start and finish. But this year may have improved slightly because it was only an issue with two subjects. She loves both classes, but is easily distracted by classmates. I think lack of sleep my be an issue.I was also more liberal with tv/computer/hand held games use, perhaps that is a factor as well.
[ Reply | Options ]11.18.09, 08:06 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]sleep is a big deal, btdt
[ Reply | Options ]11.18.09, 08:07 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]
Because it's not just about raw intelligence. It's about motivation, attention, organization skills, auditory and visual processing. My ds got a 97 on the SB at age 4... due to concerns about issues like the ones I listed above, he was always in the middle of the pack at his academically challenging school. It didn't bother me though, he worked to capacity and his learning skills improved each year with maturity and practice.
[ Reply | Options ]11.18.09, 08:04 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]You raise a very good point, I am writing about a 10 yr old.
[ Reply | Options ]11.18.09, 08:19 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]My ds is now in high school. His ability to be on top of his work continues to develop and he's now much more invested in his own academic success. When he was younger it was just "stuff he had to do". Maturity makes a huge difference for kids who've had the brain power, but not the motivation as young children.
[ Reply | Options ]11.18.09, 08:26 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]
middle of the pack not so bad no? Better than bottom imo. Why is it so important to you that she be at the top, rather than where she is comfortable? A lot can change in ms.
[ Reply | Options ]11.18.09, 08:04 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]Not important to me, the fact that she see's herself as struggling somewhat is a worry for me. Thanks for saying/asking this because I needed to think about that as well.
[ Reply | Options ]11.18.09, 08:08 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]I would give her a lot of support then, help her relax, her confidence at this particular moment might be the issue. And yes, sleep sleep sleep.
[ Reply | Options ]11.18.09, 08:10 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]Thank you so much, your advice is very helpful. Your IRL are lucky.
[ Reply | Options ]11.18.09, 08:18 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]
Are you serious? ERBs are pretty much meaningless. The middle of the pack is a fine place to be, and many DC belong there. Unless she is depressed, bored, listless or unhappy in some way that is leading her to underachieve, stop worrying about her being "in the middle" and embrace her for who she is. And yes, get a tutor if she's struggling, or switch schools if she's unhappy.
[ Reply | Options ]11.18.09, 08:25 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]Lol! thanks.
[ Reply | Options ]11.18.09, 09:03 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]Forgot to add, I will look for this book, thanks for the rec.
[ Reply | Options ]11.18.09, 09:37 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]
Agree with above poster! Have you ever read the mismeasure of man? Do it, it will make you feel better! Most of these tests are based on IQ tests, even when they claim that is not what they are... virtually meaningless for many kids as far as real potential. Just a test of acculturation at 4 YO!
[ Reply | Options ]11.18.09, 09:05 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]It's funny I used to say the same thing to others. I guess I didn't exactly feel it applied to my daughter.
[ Reply | Options ]11.18.09, 09:18 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]I know what you mean :)
[ Reply | Options ]11.18.09, 09:20 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]
well said. i often wonder if these tests measure precociousness rather than aptitude or intelligence or academic potential. maybe the 99 means dc would make a great child actor but is not necessarily going to HYP?
[ Reply | Options ]11.18.09, 09:19 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]Uhh my daughter loves drama and yes she was pretty precocious and still is to a degree. As I said before in my 3 yrs away from this board it appears to have become less snarky.
[ Reply | Options ]11.18.09, 09:35 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]not trying to be snarky but i know you weren't staking all your hopes and dreams on dd's erb score at 4 years old.
[ Reply | Options ]11.18.09, 09:40 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]oh lord no! But it is very tempting to be wowed by your child's high test scores and yep I am guilty.
[ Reply | Options ]11.18.09, 11:15 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]
think about this also some of the test is based on basic knowledge. If that knowledge was not taught to the 4 yo yet - how would they know it. They are so young. Not all parents sit and drill their kids with facts. Not all give them blocks to build with or teach them to write at that age. So many factors go into this test and it just isn't accurate at 4yo
[ Reply | Options ]11.18.09, 09:38 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]it's funny but i am in a mommy and me class with my 17 month old, and the other moms are drilling their dcs! what is this color? look at this cube! it is unbelievable. so when their dcs score 99 they'll be convinced dc is brilliant too.
[ Reply | Options ]11.18.09, 09:42 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]^^^and OP, this is not directed at you, pls don't be offended.
[ Reply | Options ]11.18.09, 09:43 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]None taken. The joke is I was definately on the more laid back side of parenting, and alwaus shook my head at parent who drill babies. Perhaps the joke is a little bit on me as well, because I believed the hype of her scores as it were.
[ Reply | Options ]11.18.09, 11:18 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]exactly- dd is 3.5 and I don't bring her around to museums. May start soon - so all those things she won't know until she's older. I haven't counted with her above 30 - so how would she know how to count to 100. Just doesn't seem important to me at this age.
[ Reply | Options ]11.18.09, 11:19 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]
Is she in the middle of her class at a tt school? The group she is with is probably way above average. Middle is a nice, strong position, as long as she is motivated, learning, and happy socially.
[ Reply | Options ]11.18.09, 12:42 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]Yes she is in the middle at her single sex. You all were very helpful. Brought me back to my senses and needed a nice verbal "snap out of it!"
[ Reply | Options ]11.18.09, 05:08 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]that's the right reaction. ERBs are only helpful getting into ongoing schools. they are not a predictor of academic success or failure. think about it. your dc is taken to a strange room with strangers for 45 min - anything could and does happen. while a 98 is a very impressive score, it reflects as much about their success that day with that set of testors than anything else. while i am sure your dc is bright, if she's in the middle of the class and happy with herself, that's a big win imo.
[ Reply | Options ]11.20.09, 03:14 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
[+] I am so sad about the state of public education. While I was an Obama supporter, I fe... 18 replies
- circular problem--schools with well-off, more educated, more involved parents tend to be "better" while schools in poorer...more issues to deal with--behavior, literacy, lack of parental involvement or ambition. You can put the same...QUALITY early childhood programs, more support for young single moms, etc. Less emphasis on testing, although in...education probably would prevent them from repeating their parents' mistakes. Maternal education and SES are highly correlated...
Talk : : November 18, 2009
I am so sad about the state of public education. While I was an Obama supporter, I feel he does not have children's best interest at heart. His agenda to increase testing and push it to even earlier grades, put more pressure on teachers to teach to the test (merit pay based on test scores) while completely lacking any family support (social support for low income and childcare tax breaks for middle class folks so mom can afford to stay home longer with children) make me so sad. Have public schools really become where we educate the future McDonald's workers?
18 replies [ Reply | Watch | Options ]11.18.09, 05:55 AM [ Flag ]ITA...For me the big question is HOW can we have a school system where there are great schools (PS 41/87/199...) and bad schools? This all seems to be based on social class...People who live in the Village have better schools than people who live in less economically stable areas or areas with projects. Shouldn't everyone get a good education--no matter what their social class?
[ Reply | Options ]11.18.09, 05:58 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]Yes Virginia.
[ Reply | Options ]11.18.09, 06:07 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]well sure, but what's your definition of a "good school?" For better or worse, it tends to be kind of a circular problem--schools with well-off, more educated, more involved parents tend to be "better" while schools in poorer neighborhoods with more social problems tend to have more issues to deal with--behavior, literacy, lack of parental involvement or ambition. You can put the same facilities, teachers, etc. in two very different neighborhoods and end up with very different types of schools. And I'm not denying that there are schools that are transformative for poor & underserved children, but they are the exception and they face all sorts of obstacles.
[ Reply | Options ]11.18.09, 07:36 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]isn't $$ a big issue here too? Read on here some time ago the NEST HOS said it was all about that
[ Reply | Options ]11.18.09, 07:38 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]definitely $$$ too--class, money, aspirations, etc.
[ Reply | Options ]11.18.09, 08:52 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]
Ha! That is why my kids to to private!
[ Reply | Options ]11.18.09, 06:11 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]good, the amherst rejection letter is in the mail.
[ Reply | Options ]11.18.09, 07:39 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]
Ha! and in NYC, Klein and Bloomberg have created these soulless dolts called PRINCIPALS from their factory called the Leadership Academy. Schools are dying and all creativity and joy has been squeezed out for the sake of test scores and these stupid school grades. horrible.
[ Reply | Options ]11.18.09, 07:29 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]are you the same poster as above, or are there to Ha! moms?
[ Reply | Options ]11.18.09, 09:00 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]
there's always a big space between what should be and what is...
[ Reply | Options ]11.18.09, 07:39 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]Is there such a thing as politician who doesn't want teachers to be teaching to the test? I've never heard of one. (I'd love to vote for someone who didn't think standardize testing solved life's problems)
[ Reply | Options ]11.18.09, 08:59 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]I totally agree. But the education problem is so insoluble. As long as we continue to treat children like trash (let them grow up in horrible homes, give the neediest kids the worst teachers, etc.) I think it is totally unrealistic to expect that school can somehow work magic on them. Very few kids with miserable home lives are going to be able to come to school ready to learn. I would like to see more QUALITY early childhood programs, more support for young single moms, etc. Less emphasis on testing, although in reality most of those tests are really easy and any kid should be able to pass them. That it is so hard to get children there speaks to our failure to educate. At the school where I went, we never "prepped" for tests but when we took statewide ones we always scored near the top.
[ Reply | Options ]11.18.09, 09:02 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]np "More support for young single moms" = more kids born into the underclass. If anything, doling out more assistance makes having kids you can't afford and/or properly care for on your own MUCH more attractive.
[ Reply | Options ]11.18.09, 09:07 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]So you would rather punish children to provide an incentive to their parents not to procreate? If you do that--and it's basically what we're doing now--those kids grow up to repeat their parent's behavior. That sure doesn't work either! On the other hand, getting those children to achieve a higher level of education probably would prevent them from repeating their parents' mistakes. Maternal education and SES are highly correlated.
[ Reply | Options ]11.18.09, 09:16 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]
I think it has great deal to do with the principals. They set the bar for the whole school. At our public, we had terrible proncipal, no they are gone, and it is like night and day in terms of atmosphere, and expectations. Still a lot of test prep though, which I hate.
[ Reply | Options ]11.18.09, 09:09 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]I have to say too--the teacher's unions are a nightmare. No decent teachers seem to regard them with anything but eye-rolling scorn and they sometimes seem designed to do nothing but protect incompetent teachers and waste time and money. That article (and Ira Glass radio piece) on the Rubber Rooms in NYC was one of the more depressing items I've read recently.
[ Reply | Options ]11.18.09, 09:10 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]ITA. I agree that there needs to be a teacher's union--I am familiar with many cases in which teachers have been treated really unfairly by crazy principals--but there must be some way that they can defend those who really need defending while letting the bad ones go. They are doing the good teachers no favors by keeping on the bad ones, who make everybody's life harder. I think the union is letting down the majority of teachers, who are great and really care about their jobs.
[ Reply | Options ]11.18.09, 09:18 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]ITA--not unlike many other unions--they seem to spend more time protecting the bad apples or appearing to (i.e. lobbying hard against drug testing, for instance, here in Boston after two firefighters died in a fire and tested pos. for coke and alcohol). I'm pro-union, but the system as is seems so screwed up.
[ Reply | Options ]11.18.09, 09:24 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]
[+] Children's Aid Society preschool: How's the separation process for the 3's program? ... 8 replies
- different shorter sessions during regular class time along with their parent/ caregiver. I think that this lasted about a week. Slowly...entire class is integrated into their regular time - and parents start leaving their children. Some schools do this process...kid i know separated in a week without a single issue, and I thought separation was going to be...brief good-byes, but that's it.) weeks of having parents lingering in the classroom is just too disruptive....
Talk : : November 17, 2009
Children's Aid Society preschool: How's the separation process for the 3's program? On our tour, it seemed a little short/brief. Other schools seemed more open to the idea that it can take a few weeks, maybe longer for some kids.
8 replies [ Reply | Watch | Options ]11.17.09, 08:42 PM [ Flag ]It is pretty efficient. The class is divided into two groups who attend two different shorter sessions during regular class time along with their parent/ caregiver. I think that this lasted about a week. Slowly the class entire class is integrated into their regular time - and parents start leaving their children. Some schools do this process slower, but it worked very well for most children we knew. My dc was quick to separate and we actually found that my being there was a hindrance to her. If anything, I was sad because I really wasn’t missed! In her 2's class there was a child who did have a difficult time, and the mom was able to stay after drop for a longer period of time.
[ Reply | Options ]11.18.09, 09:58 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]thanks!
[ Reply | Options ]11.19.09, 08:27 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]
if your dc needs a few weeks, maybe longer, to separate, he is not ready for preschool.
[ Reply | Options ]11.19.09, 08:36 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]IMO, a drawn out separation is actually worse (unless the kid is having a particularly hard time with separation). You'll be very surprised at how well it goes. the clingiest kid i know separated in a week without a single issue, and I thought separation was going to be a disaster of traumatic proportions for all involved.
[ Reply | Options ]11.19.09, 08:39 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]op: I actually think my kid will be fine and a quick separator. But I like the idea that the staff are supportive if it takes a little longer (calms my nerves going in, you know?).
[ Reply | Options ]11.19.09, 08:41 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]
the first week parents are encouraged to drop off but are allowed to stay in the classroom until dc is settled. by the second week, while parents are still allowed to stay, they should be trying to transition dc into being dropped off. by the third week, all parents are expected to drop off. (obviously they are allowed to enter the classroom to say brief good-byes, but that's it.) weeks of having parents lingering in the classroom is just too disruptive.
[ Reply | Options ]11.19.09, 08:47 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]so how do other schools manage a longer period?
[ Reply | Options ]11.19.09, 10:01 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]
Parents can sometimes be the cause of a problem. DC is fine once mom is out of sight, but mom doesn't believe the teacher and lingers, so the problem lingers, too.
[ Reply | Options ]11.20.09, 08:49 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
[+] this supposed speyer/hunter "rivalry" only exists on this board. i have never ever he... 46 replies
- the chess parent was understandably upset about the behavior of two particular hces...to the principal. rest assured there were many, many more parents who went to the principal from the other side....
- as for parent funding--actually, hces should rely on public funding, as it is...but considering the financial situation of most of the parents there, it seems likely it was the family in...
Talk : : November 17, 2009
this supposed speyer/hunter "rivalry" only exists on this board. i have never ever heard a single hunter parent mention speyer. it is a non-issue. just for the record.
46 replies [ Reply | Watch | Options ]11.17.09, 06:05 PM [ Flag ]You must not be friends with the "chess parent" who crashed the PTA meeting last June or the president of the PTA who campaigned on the "Speyer issue". I agree it's a small group, but they were very vocal if I managed to hear their craziness.
[ Reply | Options ]11.18.09, 07:49 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]For what it is worth, we at Speyer never mention Hunter either...
[ Reply | Options ]11.18.09, 07:54 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]the chess parent was understandably upset about the behavior of two particular hces families. some of that behavior had to do with speyer. nobody is threatened by speyer in and of itself. it is not viewed as some sort of challenge to hunter's "superiority," which is how the so-called rivalry is often framed here.
[ Reply | Options ]11.18.09, 08:11 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]No, there was no "understandable" reason for lying to the parent body and breaking the PTA rules to seize the floor. Let's not rehash.
[ Reply | Options ]11.18.09, 08:18 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]i know who you are, btw.
[ Reply | Options ]11.18.09, 08:22 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]really, do tell.
[ Reply | Options ]11.18.09, 08:26 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]you really want to be outed on UB?
[ Reply | Options ]11.18.09, 08:26 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]you could stick with initials if you had manners.
[ Reply | Options ]11.18.09, 08:31 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]what about my posts so far has indicated that i don't have manners?
[ Reply | Options ]11.18.09, 08:31 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]nothing, just suggesting it was a better way to proceed than posting someone's name.
[ Reply | Options ]11.18.09, 08:32 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]I won't post your name. Just rest assured I know who you are.
[ Reply | Options ]11.18.09, 08:34 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]I'm quite certain that you don't. I bet you wouldn't even guess my gender correctly, but go ahead and post initials if you think you're right.
[ Reply | Options ]11.18.09, 08:35 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]LOL. there aren't that many genders to guess. I have a 50/50 chance of getting it right.
[ Reply | Options ]11.18.09, 08:38 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]more interesting question is why you think you know who I am.
[ Reply | Options ]11.18.09, 08:40 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]there is a person on here who posts frequently about speyer. this person seems to be on daily, sticking up for speyer and getting defensive if anyone criticizes it. this same person also vociferously defends the actions of the two hces mothers who were rightfully called out at that pta meeting. one of those mothers outed herself on this board recently by mentioning what she does for a living. i suspect you are that mother.
[ Reply | Options ]11.18.09, 08:43 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]since I'm a father, that's not a good guess.
[ Reply | Options ]11.18.09, 08:45 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]if you really are a father, which seems pretty farfetched to me frankly, then it's likely you are related to one of those two mothers. nobody but these two families cares to stick up for them this much.
[ Reply | Options ]11.18.09, 08:46 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]not true. i actually visited the principal about the whole issue, but not because of the two families involved, and I know many people who think it was a disgrace, but outside dinner parties, I think this is the only place it likely gets discussed. I note that you were the first to re-post the attack on them above, so you obviously still feel strongly about the issue.
[ Reply | Options ]11.18.09, 08:55 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]btw, I know lots of dhs who hang out here. I have several screens at my desk and keep UB on for entertainment. I am interested in the varied posts about Hunter and my older child's school too.
[ Reply | Options ]11.18.09, 08:58 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]you call it an "attack." i think it was a legitimate concern among a significant number of parents. and now i really do know who you are--you're the dad who came out in defense of them to the principal. rest assured there were many, many more parents who went to the principal from the other side.
[ Reply | Options ]11.18.09, 09:53 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]as far as I know, only my wife and the principal know about my meeting, and as I said, it was not about defending either side, it was about the process and how it made the school look. You seem to know a great deal about who is talking to the principal -- are you on the PTA?
[ Reply | Options ]11.18.09, 10:17 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]no. it's a small school, though. and from the other side of the discussion, don't you think it makes the school look bad if parents--not you, but the other two parents you know i'm discussing--try to exert undue financial influence on the school and its teachers? do you think it's appropriate for these parents to be this divisive to the community? it seems like your indignation is misplaced, imho.
[ Reply | Options ]11.18.09, 10:23 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]it's too bad we can't talk in person, it seems you have a lot of information about this issue that most would not have. I'm interested to know what you think the two moms did that was so wrong. At least one of them served on the board of the PTA and seemed to have made a lot of contributions to the school, no?
[ Reply | Options ]11.18.09, 10:28 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]I am only acquainted with one of the families (don't know them well) but have never seen them try to exert financial influence, but I may be missing something. As for influencing teachers with their money, can't imagine how that could happen. Examples? The other family seems like possibly the wealthiest family in the school, just from a hearsay perspective, but I don't know any facts about them.
[ Reply | Options ]11.18.09, 10:34 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]Seriously, do you have any facts, because exerting financial influence was not what they were accused of. They were publicly accused of trying to poach a K teacher from Hunter to teach at the new Speyer school. That turned out to be false. I just don't know "the other side of the discussion".
[ Reply | Options ]11.18.09, 10:39 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]you know, it is too bad we can't talk irl. i don't feel comfortable coming forward for obvious reasons but you seem to be fairly non-hysterical and it would be interesting to hear your perspective. i do have a lot of info but don't want to put it here.
[ Reply | Options ]11.18.09, 10:39 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]as far as exerting financial influence--you're right, that was not discussed at the pta meeting. that came out later as i talked to other parents about what had happened at that meeting. i do feel that one of the families is trying to use its power to push its own agenda at the school. that is what i am personally upset about. the speyer stuff doesn't bother me that much.
[ Reply | Options ]11.18.09, 10:41 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]get a room. no one else cares about this.
[ Reply | Options ]11.18.09, 10:46 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]assuming you are a np, if you don't care, why did you bother to post?
[ Reply | Options ]11.18.09, 10:48 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]what is the agenda they are pushing, is it bad for the rest of the kids?
[ Reply | Options ]11.18.09, 10:50 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]Yes, NP, bugger off . . . you don't have to read anything that doesn't interest you. I could care less about all the lonely housewives not getting enough on here, but I don't butt into their posts and complain -- it's PUBLIC forum.
[ Reply | Options ]11.18.09, 10:52 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]Oh, are you talking about the private plane incident, I did hear of that?
[ Reply | Options ]11.18.09, 10:53 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]don't know if it's bad for the kids or not. not even sure what their agenda is, exactly. the point is more that they are able to get what they want because they donate a huge amount of $$ to the school--more than the rest of us could ever dream of. i think that is the antithesis of what a public school is supposed to be.
[ Reply | Options ]11.18.09, 10:54 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]yes, talking about the private plane incident, definitely.
[ Reply | Options ]11.18.09, 10:55 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]I guess my perspective is that, however tacky the offer, the principal chose to accept it. Bad judgment, but let's move on. As for giving big $$ to the public school, Hunter depends for its very life on that parent funding. Can you imagine what our kids would have without it? How do you know they gave big $$? How would one find that out?
[ Reply | Options ]11.18.09, 11:01 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]i'm going to have to get back to RL now but will continue to watch this post if you would like to continue our conversation later on. for now, my issue with planegate is this: 1. it is completely against hunter college ethics rules for a school employee to accept an extravagant gift (as this was). 2. the principal has never come clean about it. i think it was just an error in judgment too, but he has pooh-poohed all parent requests for an explanation of what happened. he refuses to address it. 3. by offering the private plane ride the parents got 4 uninterrupted hours of the principal's attention. i can't even get the guy to answer the occasional email. makes it seem as if the principal can be bought.
[ Reply | Options ]11.18.09, 11:14 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]as for parent funding--actually, hces should rely on public funding, as it is a public school. obviously it doesn't get all the funding it needs. so i'm not averse to parents chipping in, but i think it should be very transparent who is giving what, and i think there should be no strings attached to any gift. i don't know if there were. but how would we? there's no transparency. finally, to find out funding, i believe you could ask the pta treasurers for annual fund info. again, it's unclear who gave the anonymous gift i am talking about. but considering the financial situation of most of the parents there, it seems likely it was the family in question.
[ Reply | Options ]11.18.09, 11:17 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]On the last point, seriously, you do realize that RC cannot use email. I simply make appointments with his assistant, sometimes 5-10 minutes to ask my questions or share my suggestions. He never responded to my email either, but is very responsive in person.
[ Reply | Options ]11.18.09, 11:34 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]you mean the private plan family?
[ Reply | Options ]11.18.09, 11:39 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]HCES dad, if you're still reading: What do you mean by "the private plan family"?
[ Reply | Options ]11.19.09, 12:06 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]I meant "private plane" family.
[ Reply | Options ]11.19.09, 02:28 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]The reason that I asked is that I looked at the school's list of parents who have given money and the private plane family is not listed.
[ Reply | Options ]11.19.09, 02:34 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]If HCES is such a 'small school, and one of you thinks you "know who you are", why not pick up a class list, dial the digits and meet for coffee? Public forum or not, you're both silly.
[ Reply | Options ]11.20.09, 07:08 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]
There's a special place for this type of post, it's called NY SCHOOLS.
[ Reply | Options ]11.18.09, 10:56 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]there's a special place for you, and it's called lighten up.
[ Reply | Options ]11.18.09, 10:58 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]not OP so can't help it.
[ Reply | Options ]11.18.09, 11:02 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]
[+] you MUST gives med students a break. you can't justify $100k plus in tuition if you a... 180 replies
- nor would I call it a middle road perspective on the issue. Secondly, a single hospital does not an effective nationalized system make. You do not need a medical...
- its not a single hospital. its a big hospital suystem -- not quite as big as kaiser but...practice (or will practice) medicine. THe only reasn I pointed out that my parents paid, is so people wouldnt say "well obviously, your opinio is biased,...
Talk : : November 17, 2009
you MUST gives med students a break. you can't justify $100k plus in tuition if you are goinng to come out of training making $65k (that's after 4 yrs med school and a minimum of 4 yrs of residency)
180 replies [ Reply | Watch | Options ]11.17.09, 12:30 PM [ Flag ]?? why not?
[ Reply | Options ]11.17.09, 12:32 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]how are you going to get people who can afford to be doctors?
[ Reply | Options ]11.17.09, 12:34 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]aren't you supposed to become a doctor because you are interested in medicine?
[ Reply | Options ]11.17.09, 12:35 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]yes- but if you are interested in medicine AND interested in being able to support a family then you may opt for a different profession. you do need doctors in cities that are expensive to live in-- do you want them capable of paying to live here.
[ Reply | Options ]11.17.09, 12:37 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]they get paid during their residency and make relatively good salaries after. i don't see it as a problem.
[ Reply | Options ]11.17.09, 12:38 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]np- my dh was paid $40k during his last year as a resident and then made $24k as a fellow for 2 years. He started at a job making $125k but that doesnt reflect that we still had to pay $140k plus interest for his loans. does that add up to you?
[ Reply | Options ]11.17.09, 12:40 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]yes (sis a doc, her circumstance is similar)
[ Reply | Options ]11.17.09, 12:43 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
The pay during residency is not even the minimum hourly wage in this country, and you aren't explaining how one can afford 200k for undergrad and 200k for med school as well as all the years one is studying and NOT earning income.
[ Reply | Options ]11.17.09, 12:41 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
More need for doctors in rural areas from what i hear...
[ Reply | Options ]11.17.09, 12:44 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
but when you can't afford to pay the student loans and keep a roof over your head, the level of interest is irrelevant
[ Reply | Options ]11.17.09, 12:38 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]that's overly dramatic - wouldn't you say?
[ Reply | Options ]11.17.09, 12:39 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]not at all!! you get what you pay for. you want free care? you will get inferior doctors
[ Reply | Options ]11.17.09, 12:41 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]who said they wanted free care?
[ Reply | Options ]11.17.09, 12:44 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
No it isn't! It is the most expensive job to train for, with the most risk, the most potential for helping people and now you are saying they should be paid nothing for it? What is wrong with you people
[ Reply | Options ]11.17.09, 12:49 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]no one is saying they should be paid nothing for it. what is wrong with you people today, and why aren't you angry at the insurance companies that take our money and don't give it to the physicians?
[ Reply | Options ]11.17.09, 12:50 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
Not really, when you are talking about over $100k in student loans, plus the interest that has accumulated. $65K means take home pay of around $40K, assume rent of $2K per month (which in NYC means you are living in a walk-up in a marginal neighborhood). That leaves $16K for everything else, including loans, food, clothing and since you are no longer a resident, malpractice insurance. It's not possible, unless your spouse makes substantially more money or you are a 30 year old doctor and living with your parents.
[ Reply | Options ]11.17.09, 12:52 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]Aren't you describing a staff person type position? In which case the expenses are paid by the practice.
[ Reply | Options ]11.17.09, 01:00 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]The practice is going to pay for food and clothing? Or your doctor should be eating Ramen noodles and wearing rags?
[ Reply | Options ]11.17.09, 01:05 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]Actually I was talking about the malpractice, that is an expense of the practice. Isn't that still covered by the practice?
[ Reply | Options ]11.17.09, 01:18 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
RIGHT. Doctors should work for free. Forget it is the most demanding profession. Didn't lawyers get into law because they love to argue? Why should they be paid so handsomely esp. when they aren't saving lives!?!?!?!
[ Reply | Options ]11.17.09, 12:47 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]who said they should work for free? or here, and i didn't say that at all.
[ Reply | Options ]11.17.09, 12:49 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]You are saying then that you think litigators should make mint money for suing people, such a noble pursuit, but doctors who spend twice the time training and come out with four times the ability to help people should be salaried with little incentive? That is a recipe for the smartest people in this country becoming Ibankers and lawyers. Congratulations you just killed Healthcare quality in this country.
[ Reply | Options ]11.17.09, 12:51 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]i haven't said that at all. what are you on about???
[ Reply | Options ]11.17.09, 12:52 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]Do you know how much better your medical care in the UK was before you nationalized it? Do you have any idea as to why?
[ Reply | Options ]11.17.09, 12:55 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]instead of coming up with some specious comparison, why doesn't someone put on their thinking cap and come up with a solution that is unique to america. (and as always, it was better for the people who could afford it, and nonexistent for the rest also known as the many)
[ Reply | Options ]11.17.09, 12:59 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]And now it is a mess and poor for everyone, that was a brilliant solution.
[ Reply | Options ]11.17.09, 01:01 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]no - it isn't at all.
[ Reply | Options ]11.17.09, 01:01 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]yes - it absolutely is. The brits have problems coming over here and paying for medical care even when its superior because they have had mediocre care their whole lives in the UK. It is a typical psychological perspective, what is free always seems better but when you drill down, disaster
[ Reply | Options ]11.17.09, 01:05 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]balderdash.
[ Reply | Options ]11.17.09, 01:06 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]have you actually lived in the UK and used the NHS there? If not, please, stop talking.
[ Reply | Options ]11.17.09, 01:08 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]oh stop.
[ Reply | Options ]11.17.09, 01:08 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]yes, I have. 15 years and so happy to be home.
[ Reply | Options ]11.17.09, 01:09 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]If it so wonderful and the tax paid NHS system is such a success what the hell are you doing over here? Maybe looking for a better paying job with less taxes that provides the same if not better Health care for less out of your paycheck than in the UK?
[ Reply | Options ]11.17.09, 01:11 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]no. family has, though, and i say balderdash
[ Reply | Options ]11.17.09, 01:15 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
Did you see Frontline from a few weeks ago that looked at health care systems around the world? The NHS in the UK is providing excellent health care to the Brits.
[ Reply | Options ]11.17.09, 01:07 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
we need to move to a salary system
[ Reply | Options ]11.17.09, 12:33 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]it's ok for there to be incentive for teh doctors as well. the notion of "greedy" doctor is more rare than u realize. but they are allowed to make a living and i would hope you would still want to attract the best ppl for the job
[ Reply | Options ]11.17.09, 12:35 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]No, we need tort reform.
[ Reply | Options ]11.17.09, 12:38 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]the two are not mutually exclusive.
[ Reply | Options ]11.17.09, 12:38 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]What good would "salaries" do? There are often salaried physicians at teaching hospitals and I don't see people lining up for them.
[ Reply | Options ]11.17.09, 12:42 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]If you were a doctor you would know they are
[ Reply | Options ]11.17.09, 12:50 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]tort reform vs. salary system?
[ Reply | Options ]11.17.09, 12:52 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
What physician is making $65K?
[ Reply | Options ]11.17.09, 12:42 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]There are some primary care docs that don't make above 85k.
[ Reply | Options ]11.17.09, 12:48 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]that's what they're worth.
[ Reply | Options ]11.17.09, 12:50 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]BS. insurance companies pay more for specialists, that's why.
[ Reply | Options ]11.17.09, 12:50 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]so why aren't we all angry at the insurance companies????
[ Reply | Options ]11.17.09, 12:51 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]oh, we are.
[ Reply | Options ]11.17.09, 12:54 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
np: don't worry, specialists are going to get whacked down by the new healthcare bill. Who care that they have to have more equipment, training etc. Oncologists aren't really that important.
[ Reply | Options ]11.17.09, 12:53 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
I wonder what you are worth? As an Admin in 1998 I made 90K. I think a doctor is worth more than the faxes I sent
[ Reply | Options ]11.17.09, 12:52 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]any old physician? a neurosurgeon? there are many different strata of doctors. the pcd who sees you for 15 minutes, doesn't do procedures, and doesn't even coordinate your specialist information is worth about 65k imho.
[ Reply | Options ]11.17.09, 12:54 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]I your humble opinion is right.
[ Reply | Options ]11.17.09, 12:56 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]no, hence the term opinion. you make too much as an admin.
[ Reply | Options ]11.17.09, 01:02 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]Used a job I once had as an example. Not an admin any longer but was paid too much for the job I was doing.
[ Reply | Options ]11.17.09, 01:27 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
and waht about my pcdwho des doprocedures adn sees me for as long as i need? oh, right - and doesn't take insurance. he's a great doctor but theonly reason i can get this level of care is i have the money to spend. lots of people don't.
[ Reply | Options ]11.17.09, 12:56 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]If you think that you should just walk into a clinic and see a physician's assistant. That PCD whom you think is worth 65K/year has had 4 years medical school, 2 - 4 years of a residency in addition to a college degree. You think they should be paid less than many administrative assistants.
[ Reply | Options ]11.17.09, 12:57 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]maybe it's the aa's who are overpaid, batman.
[ Reply | Options ]11.17.09, 12:59 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]hey, you think docs are overpaid, go to a physician's assistant. I'm guess you either make $25,000/year or are a hypocrite.
[ Reply | Options ]11.17.09, 01:04 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]you are confused.
[ Reply | Options ]11.17.09, 01:07 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
The people who take care of you and your children are worth less than 100K/year after school/training for 7-10 years?! Get your priorities straight!
[ Reply | Options ]11.17.09, 02:14 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]Good GPs catch and deal with many things before they become more complicated,promote maintenance of good health and ...Maybe you view yours as a 'goto' for scrips?
[ Reply | Options ]11.18.09, 05:56 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]
I don't disagree that medicine and the reimbursement/incentive structure in this country is fucked up BUT isn't internal medicine residency less than four years? And while a fresh out of school PCP may "only" make $85K that is not the mean by any stretch.
[ Reply | Options ]11.17.09, 12:57 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]You don't know anything. The mean for PCP is less than $100K, and those are people who must pay thousands and thousands of dollars/month in loan repayments for decades!
[ Reply | Options ]11.17.09, 12:59 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]I googled it. Here's one site: http://www.payscale.com/research/US/People_with_Jobs_as_Physicians_%2F_Doctors/Salary I thought this was better: http://mdsalaries.blogspot.com/2005/10/family-physician-salaries.html (To quote the relevant part: "The average NATIONAL annual salary offers for Internal Medicine as per the 2006 Physician Compensation Report was $162,000... $145,000 for Family Medicine." To be clear, I am not saying (and have not said) that I think doctors, especially PCPs are overpaid. Just that the info in this thread is off.)
[ Reply | Options ]11.17.09, 01:16 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]That's right, $145,000 is AVERAGE!!! Which includes doctors with 40 years of experience and doctors with no years of experience. And that's coming out having to pay $5,000/month in loans for decades!! You've made my point.
[ Reply | Options ]11.17.09, 01:23 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]Now I'm really confused. Are you the person whose point was that the mean is less than $100K for PCPs or someone else.
[ Reply | Options ]11.17.09, 01:52 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]I am the OR who stated that some primary care docs only make 85k or so. I haven't posted these other responses. I once worked with a wonderful family practice doc who was supposed to be "part-time" because of her kids- she ended up at the office from 8-3 four days a week and made 45k. I saw her pay stubs. That is appalling to me. 10% of Harvard Business School's class every year are MDs who are sick of the system- I personally knew residents who went into banking AFTER completing our difficult specialty. The brain drain in medicine is real, which is why we have to keep licensing FOREIGN GRADS. We don't have enough people to do this at this pay. HTH.
[ Reply | Options ]11.18.09, 03:48 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]
But you are fine with million dollar bonuses for number pushing investment bankers. Why not reform what needs to be reformed before we mess with what is important, our health providers.
[ Reply | Options ]11.17.09, 12:59 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]Reread my post and tell me where anything I said even suggested this. You are angry with the wrong person.
[ Reply | Options ]11.17.09, 01:04 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]no one on this post has said anything like.
[ Reply | Options ]11.17.09, 01:08 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
ITA. Posters here don't have any idea about most doctors' hours and salaries. But, my solution is to make medical school free -- the government should subsidize the training of doctors. Making $150K/year is far more appealing if you aren't paying off $200K plus interest in loans for medical school.
[ Reply | Options ]11.17.09, 12:54 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]Why can't a medical student pay back his loans once he graduates? Maybe he/she was living beyonds his means while still a student.
[ Reply | Options ]11.17.09, 12:58 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]That's right evil evil doctors. Why do people hate doctors so much? I think it has something to do with the notion that they hold knowledge about things we don't. That riles people.
[ Reply | Options ]11.17.09, 01:02 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]I don't hate doctors. I don't agree that it is impossible to pay back the loan. Maybe they will have to delay the big house, nice car, etc for a few years. What is so wrong with that?
[ Reply | Options ]11.17.09, 01:03 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]You idiot. They have to delay all that for 30 years. Why even go into medicine? That's what is happening. If you are satisfied that the quality of doctors is the same as the quality of low paid teachers, goody for you. Your children will thank you for making sure good medical care is available for them in the future.
[ Reply | Options ]11.17.09, 01:06 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]You what everything all at once. If a young doctor lived frugally for a few years he could have a big chuck of his debt paid off. But, his young wife probably wants an expensive wedding, big house, big car, country club membership, live in NYC.
[ Reply | Options ]11.17.09, 01:09 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]What is wrong with you?
[ Reply | Options ]11.17.09, 01:12 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]I don't agree with you. You think doctors should go to school for free. I say they should repay their loan.
[ Reply | Options ]11.17.09, 01:13 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
You are describing the lifestyle of an investment banker, not a doctor. Every doctor I know lives frugally and it's impossible to pay off a debt. Ha -- the posters here who make 2X as much as a typical doctor salary complain that they can't afford private school because of a $30,000 tuition. Doctors pay way more than $30,000/year to pay off loans, and that payment goes on for decades, AND they live on 1/2 to 1/3 of the salary.
[ Reply | Options ]11.17.09, 01:13 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]They are living beyond their means. I guess they want the lifestyle of an older more established doctor.
[ Reply | Options ]11.17.09, 01:14 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]YOU are most likely living beyond your means. What is this need to humble doctors and surgeons while bus drivers unionize and demand higher pay?!?!
[ Reply | Options ]11.17.09, 01:18 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]You know, you are probably just arguing to argue, but don't forget about karma. Comes around again. Are you claiming that you will encourage your child to train 80 hours/week for 8 years, then work for 80/hour week for another 10 years to pay off your debt from that, and then at age 40 be rewarded by making $100,000/year for working 75 hours/week? You would tell your child to have a life instead. But I know there are some nuns who might be attracted to that lifestyle? Are you one of them?
[ Reply | Options ]11.17.09, 01:20 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]I heart you.
[ Reply | Options ]11.17.09, 01:25 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]Average salary for starting doctor:http://www.payscale.com/research/US/People_with_Jobs_as_Physicians_%2F_Doctors/Salary
[ Reply | Options ]11.17.09, 01:25 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]I did not even open the link but the point is: FOR THE MOMENT IT IS THAT HIGH WHAT YOU ARE ALL PROPOSING IT MEDICAL SUICIDE
[ Reply | Options ]11.17.09, 01:28 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
http://www.finaid.org/calculators/scripts/loanpayments.cgi
[ Reply | Options ]11.17.09, 01:28 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]~a starting salary for a doctor is 150,000 a year and the monthly payment on a 200,000 loan is about 2500/month. Why can they don't afford this?
[ Reply | Options ]11.17.09, 01:29 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]actually, you are fudging the numbers. The starting salary isn't $150,000/year. that's a high average (and nearly the max. salary for family medicine, by the way.) Monthly payment -- ha -- payments for 10 or 20 years! And, fyi, doctors work 75 - 80 hour weeks, far more than other professions. Do you think this is all they deserve?
[ Reply | Options ]11.17.09, 01:35 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]What do you suggest? Free education for doctors and a higher salary? Sure why don't they are like Gods.
[ Reply | Options ]11.17.09, 01:38 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]And here it is folks! The reason for all the animosity, 'doctors think they are gods'.
[ Reply | Options ]11.17.09, 01:50 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]Your post makes it seem like you are providing such a service that you should go to school for free. Believe me the world will survive if you are not practicing medicine.
[ Reply | Options ]11.17.09, 01:53 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]REally? My husband is a doctor and he doesn't make this.
[ Reply | Options ]11.17.09, 08:59 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
HIS wife? 60% of my medical school class is female!
[ Reply | Options ]11.17.09, 02:15 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
LOL. And where is this big house and car coming from on these lowly salaries exactly?
[ Reply | Options ]11.17.09, 01:06 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]It's a mortgage on their life - there is no house, no car, nothing. People insist bankers are worth $5million a year, but refuse to see the value in compensating the doctor, who can and will save your life without asking for payment first.
[ Reply | Options ]11.17.09, 01:09 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
Say what? Medical loans total more than $200K (probably much more now). Do you have a clue how much a monthly payment is on that? Think of your mortgage, and paying this amount for 30 years of your working life so you are only getting paid $40,000 year and expected to be on call nights, weekends, 6am - 8pm hours. Yes, some people may still go into medicine for love, just like they go into the peace corps, but many more will prefer to see their family and live on twice as much money for half the hours.
[ Reply | Options ]11.17.09, 01:02 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]For how many years will they be making $40,000? At some point their income is going to increase.
[ Reply | Options ]11.17.09, 01:05 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]again, you spout nonsense. primary care providers don't make alot more than $100,000/year. Young bankers right out of college make that much. and the hours for a pcp are brutal -- you don't have a clue how brutal the hours of a doctor are but I'm sure they work twice as many hours as you do.
[ Reply | Options ]11.17.09, 01:09 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]If a young doctor moved outside of NYC and rented an house for 1000/month and drove an inexpensive car he could have loan paid off in 10 years. I don't spout nonsense. But you have to move out of NYC.
[ Reply | Options ]11.17.09, 01:11 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]Hmm, let's see, your "young" doctor is actually 30 years old after finishing training. So until that doctor is 40, he should live like a college student, not be able to have a family, and, by the way, work 80 hours/ week. Maybe then he can pay off loans and start with nothing at age 40. Sounds appealing -- why don't you do it yourself?
[ Reply | Options ]11.17.09, 01:16 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]One of the things I read in looking up PCP salaries above said that one of the reasons so many foreign med students go into primary care and so many US graduates go into specialty is that the foreign students don't have the loans and can take those jobs. Interesting spin.
[ Reply | Options ]11.17.09, 01:23 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
$200K is borrowing tuition only for 4 years. No "means" at all.
[ Reply | Options ]11.17.09, 01:03 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
they do make it free - you just have to join the armed services for a few years afterwards
[ Reply | Options ]11.17.09, 12:59 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]good point
[ Reply | Options ]11.17.09, 01:01 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
I had $180K in student loans after college & law school. I still "managed" to pay them back when I was making $150K.
[ Reply | Options ]11.17.09, 04:26 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
I say you all will get what you deserve. A lower level of candidate for medical school, a lowered level of excellence for passing, a lower level of service and a lower level of health.
[ Reply | Options ]11.17.09, 12:57 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]sorry, but other countries where doctors get a lot less than here in the US have it just as good as we do (and they pay almost nothing besides taxes for that privilege).
[ Reply | Options ]11.17.09, 01:06 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]you cannot say that with any authority and for every person such as yourself who believes that there is a person who lives in one of those countries who would dispute it to the death. Literally in many cases.
[ Reply | Options ]11.17.09, 01:08 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]Yes, but since I have lived in multiple countries of all sizes and colors I am very well able to compare them. Sure, there are always people who complain but one thing should never be debatable: there should never be one person in a country that cannot afford basic health care or has to declare medical bankruptcy because of a life changing event.
[ Reply | Options ]11.17.09, 01:11 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]No one is arguing that point. There is not a person among us who wants anyone to be denied healthcare but Utopian systems of economy do not exist for a reason, you cannot provide quality for everyone for free. Something suffers. If you think lower level of care for a larger number of people is a solution then you sacrifice life expectancy, high rate of preventable disease and any number of other serious risks for the greater number of people.
[ Reply | Options ]11.17.09, 01:16 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]Well, remove all profit motivation, allow the government to increase taxes, and have a public option. There. Nobody will ever have to declare bankruptcy and ruin her life anymore.
[ Reply | Options ]11.17.09, 01:19 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]Remove all profit motivation and increase taxes? That is exactly the poor model I underlined above. And if you want to cripple the middle classes by doing that go ahead, that will solve all of our problems in a capitalist economy. We need to look at the whole picture. You cannot silo out health care from the rest of the working economy in a country like this. It breaks down.
[ Reply | Options ]11.17.09, 01:24 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]Bull. Somebody mentioned Switzerland below. It's as capitalistic (and arrogant) as the US and nothing suffered from a health care reform even though profits were removed, doctor fees were fixed, etc. etc.
[ Reply | Options ]11.17.09, 01:29 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]You sound intelligent and as someone who seems v. bright I think you know as well as I what a poor comparison Switzerland as a model is to a country the size and scope of the US. I would also like you to explain, as a brit, why if you NHS has not crippled your middle class why you are or your husband are over here working. Surely if the medical care is just as good and superior and the tax situation has not crippled salary level of cost of living, you would prefer to be at home.
[ Reply | Options ]11.17.09, 01:33 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
but if you compare US outcomes vs. countries that do have free or cheap healthcare for all, the level of care is not worse. lower infant mortality, for one thing. there is probably less end-of-life care, but for children and youg adults outcomes are better.
[ Reply | Options ]11.17.09, 01:20 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]Well, if you get cancer at 65 and the government tells you you get no care because you are too old to waste it on and they have more teenagers to treat for acne and you are fine with that, I say vote for it.
[ Reply | Options ]11.17.09, 01:26 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]And in what country have you seen that kind of scenario? Do you actually have experience with other health care systems?
[ Reply | Options ]11.17.09, 01:30 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]Hm. Denmark. Another favorite example.
[ Reply | Options ]11.17.09, 01:34 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
there is no country in the world where that happens. this is a strawman and you know it.
[ Reply | Options ]11.17.09, 01:30 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]why Sarah Palin--I didn't know you hung out here on UB! Could you um...tell us where you get this kind of information? From the Internets?
[ Reply | Options ]11.17.09, 01:49 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
Why does anybody assume that the level of care will be lowered if we socialize health care or give more options to the people, or remove making profits from the health care industry? Have a closer look at Switzerland which went through the exact same thing this country is going through. 50% of the people were against a reformation at that time but passed through the referendum by a hair and now 10 years later nobody wants it any different (even the doctors, insurers, or the pharmaceuticals).
[ Reply | Options ]11.17.09, 01:27 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]Because if you have 50 cakes and 100 people, you can give more cake to those 100 people. If you have 50 cakes and 1,000 people those people get a lot less cake! Switzerland is the size of Georgia with a population that is not racially diverse so it is much easier to standardize and prioritize medical care.
[ Reply | Options ]11.17.09, 01:31 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]How does race come into this now? Why does the number of people matter? The GPD per capita is pretty much the same as in Switzerland (US is ranked 6, Switzerland 7). We have the infrastructure already. All it takes is a change of thinking!!!!!
[ Reply | Options ]11.17.09, 01:33 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]The standardization of medical treatments for an entire population is a lot easier to do if you are dealing with people of the same ethnicity and gene pool. People of diff, ethnic backgrounds suffer from a higher risk of a, b or c disease and lower risk of x, y and z disease. When you are talking about allocating a certain sum of money to treat all people all of the time this is a lot easier to do when all of the people most of the time are going to suffer from the same things during the same age span.
[ Reply | Options ]11.17.09, 01:38 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]^^ I should point out that as a doctor this is something we think about that I understand does not go off as a light bulb in other peoples heads. Maybe doctors should be part of any reform. What an idea.
[ Reply | Options ]11.17.09, 01:42 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]Oh, come on. What a crock. Yes, I am very sure this is a good theoretical discussion to have but in practice it will not make any difference.
[ Reply | Options ]11.18.09, 05:13 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]
they assume it because that's what the insurance companies told them to say.
[ Reply | Options ]11.17.09, 01:31 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
You know what should happen in this country: a) make higher education free (yes, even for doctors, lawyers, MBAs, etc. etc.), b) remove all profit motivation from health care, c) pay doctors (even specialists) accordingly to the changed landscape. This is my three-step solution to our health care problems in this country.
[ Reply | Options ]11.17.09, 01:04 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]forgot to squeeze one more thing in (before a): increase taxes to support this plan financially
[ Reply | Options ]11.17.09, 01:05 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]Move to different country
[ Reply | Options ]11.17.09, 01:07 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]yes, because the health care system in this country works so well that it does not need to be overhauled, right?
[ Reply | Options ]11.17.09, 01:09 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]no she is telling you to move to one of those wonderful countries
[ Reply | Options ]11.17.09, 01:10 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]why not fixing something here instead of running away?
[ Reply | Options ]11.17.09, 01:12 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]because you should REALLY live in the system you are proposing to implement here before you implement it!
[ Reply | Options ]11.17.09, 01:17 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]Who said I haven't? Of course, I have. And you know what? Once you get used to it you will not miss it.
[ Reply | Options ]11.17.09, 01:20 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]You mean like jumping into an ice cold pool? I will get used to it even though my lips will turn blue and my blood pressure will drop? Ok.
[ Reply | Options ]11.17.09, 01:47 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
OK, I hereby give them a break. Any doctor that owes me money now has their debt forgiven.
[ Reply | Options ]11.17.09, 01:05 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]welcome to the world! you should also give public health students a break. they end up owing as much as $80,000 (or more) for a masters, and they may earn less than $30,000 coming out of training! professional degrees are expensive. in the case of a doctor, your income climbs rapidly. no fun, but they are definitely not the group that i feel worst for (and my husband is one, so we are paying back his loans right now). i do wish that there were more breaks for physicians willing to go into primary care or peds, so that monetary considerations didn't drive so many people into specialties.
[ Reply | Options ]11.17.09, 01:16 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]^^And I do agree that the ridiculous schedules for med students in the upper years and residents is ridiculous and results in poor patient care. Something should definitely be done about that!
[ Reply | Options ]11.17.09, 01:17 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
doctors do end up making a lot, however.
[ Reply | Options ]11.17.09, 01:25 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]don't use logic on these idiots
[ Reply | Options ]11.17.09, 01:30 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]if they pick the right field. Family doctors or generalists are at the bottom of the pay ladder.
[ Reply | Options ]11.17.09, 01:31 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]What is a lot? is a lot 30K to you, is it 50? Is it 200K? You cannot put a number on 'a lot'. At 65K which is less than union workers on the highways make you are doing your medical care and providers a disservice which will end up ruining your health.
[ Reply | Options ]11.17.09, 01:40 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
agreed. MS4 here. and guess what? that is why I voted mccain and why I get a stomachache whenever I hear our juniorsenator/president get up and pretend to espouse his "wisdom" on health care.
[ Reply | Options ]11.17.09, 01:30 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]and let me just add- my tuition has been paid in full by my parents. so no, its not about me. I do want to go int medicine to practice medicine, and truly, $ isnt much of a concern, DH is in finance. but just on a communal level...if you want cream of the crop doctors,who are more concerned with their patients and practcng medicine than a union, socialized medicine, and clocking out at 5, then this is the wrong approach.
[ Reply | Options ]11.17.09, 01:38 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]except the doctors we haev now seem to be pretty resistna to any standardization even if it has been shown to lead to better results. i do not doubt that you and almost every doctor cares deeply. but there is a resistance to efforst to use data and standardization that i do not understand.
[ Reply | Options ]11.17.09, 01:41 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]Maybe better results, maybe, but in a completely different type of pond. Think of it this way. You have sick trees but they are all the same sort of trees so they all suffer from, give or take a small number, the same sort of disease given soil type, climate, region etc. Easy to cure, easy to standardize. Now you have many more trees but they are as diverse as you can imagine and suffer from all sorts of varietals. How do you standardize treatment of them? Is it cheap, is it easy? Not even close.
[ Reply | Options ]11.17.09, 01:44 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]i'd be interested in your view of the recent NYTimes magazine article about a US hospital group taht is working on creatign standardized protocols. that's an American population and they are having good results.
[ Reply | Options ]11.17.09, 01:49 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]NYTimes, first of all, is not a medical journal nor would I call it a middle road perspective on the issue. Secondly, a single hospital does not an effective nationalized system make. You do not need a medical degree to work that out just simple reasoning.
[ Reply | Options ]11.17.09, 01:52 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]its not a single hospital. its a big hospital suystem -- not quite as big as kaiser but that kind of thing. and a good protocl of course takes meaningful differences among patients into account.
[ Reply | Options ]11.17.09, 01:55 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]translation: you don't know about a group that is revolutionizing the way that medicine is practiced, nor do you care to find out what they are doing. sad.
[ Reply | Options ]11.17.09, 01:57 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]NP: Please tell me which medical journal promotes non-evidence-based medicine? I must have missed that one!
[ Reply | Options ]11.17.09, 02:27 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
np: and this is why there is a huge push to promote scientific literacy among med students. are patients diverse? sure. but do some practices work better than others, given a certain condition? yes. randomized controlled trials (most of them done by physicians who actually understand the scientific method) encompass all sorts of variation--but randomize it in order to focus on the differences in outcome that result from treatment.
[ Reply | Options ]11.17.09, 01:51 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
ITA. As an epidemiologist, I don't understand why so many physicians are resistant to certain practices that are relatively easy, cheap, and dramatically improve patient outcomes. There are definitely crusaders out there, but they run up against a wall in trying to spread the gospel of evidence-based medicine among their peers. Also, I don't think anyone has proposed unionizing doctors who will clock out at 5... People are getting so worked up healthcare reform and are terrified by scenarios that are not even actually on the table for debate. Certainly an MD should know better!
[ Reply | Options ]11.17.09, 01:46 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]You have so little clue it is a testament to the fact that your degree was done online or does not exist at all.
[ Reply | Options ]11.17.09, 01:48 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]np: was that supposed to refute what that poster wrote? you sound illiterate! wish you were just pretending, but i do have a horrible feeling that you actually are a doctor. a sad benighted doctor, screwing up the medical system in your own special way.
[ Reply | Options ]11.17.09, 01:52 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]NP: I don't know, that made sense to me. But I do believe that you got your degree at a med school in the Caribbean! That tree thing was pathetic.
[ Reply | Options ]11.17.09, 01:54 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]Im the 4th yr med student who posted above (gosh I seriously dont get how we ID ourselves on here asNPsor OPs or whatever), and I also didnt really get the tree analogy.
[ Reply | Options ]11.17.09, 02:30 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]with posts this long, identifying yourself gets really confusing!
[ Reply | Options ]11.17.09, 02:39 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
I am the med student who spoke of unionizing drs. epidemiologist poster- I am 100% onthesame page as you re EBM and I dont exactly get the commotion. yes my clocking out drs thing was a bit of an exaggeration. my point was I dont want to (essentially. yes, I am well read, and I know it aint so simple, but I also know its a slippery slope and I dont know where the line will be drawn 10-20 yrs down the rd) essentially become a drone govt employee who is forced to follow inane (god UB makes me despise that word) protocols because some govt bureaucrat says so. I know some treatments and protocols are not cost effective. and I think we need to find some viable solutions. but there isnt an "one size fits all" fix to this- at least I sincerely do not believe there is one. this healthcare reform seems like putting a bandaid on a fractured skull and then saying "well, its not fixed yet, but were well on our way!"
[ Reply | Options ]11.17.09, 02:28 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]I really don't think you have to worry about this. The proposals have been for committees of physicians and public health experts to review cost effectiveness of various procedures (not government bureaucrats, thank goodness). And the truth is, I don't think even this is going to fly in the U.S., although we need to incorporate cost controls somehow. They tried to do this in Oregon, and immediately after there are bound to be stories of little kids with cancer denied experimental treatments, and then public outrage. It IS difficult to find a balance, I agree! And I have worked for government bureaucrats before, so I do understand your concerns.
[ Reply | Options ]11.17.09, 02:43 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]thanks for at least understanding my concerns. yes, oregon is a great example. I spent some time oveseas before med school (africa volunteering, israel for year abroad, switzeland, etc) so I am not clueless about health disparities and the +'s and -'s of such a system. I am not some die hard activist praying htat healthcare reform doesnt pass. I think everyon agrees weneed reform.but like you said, my concern is about finding a balance. I know the committees being proposed are supposedly going to consist of docs and p.h. experts as you say, but like I siad above- slippery slope. I was at AMA this yr, and heard obama speak, and man can he speak. but still, there are alot of gaps and I am very apprehensive.
[ Reply | Options ]11.17.09, 03:37 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
NP: Is "How to Be Arrogant 101" a required course in medical school? Because you're displaying a frightening level of it for someone that is still a student. How do you know whether or not protocols are "inane" or effective? You're not even practicing yet!
[ Reply | Options ]11.17.09, 02:46 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]you missed my point. if I, a lowly 4th year med student, the second lowest lump on the medical totem pole (only right above the novice thirdyears), am frustrated because in my limited knowledge, can even realize that healthcare being oversimplified into a bunch of protoocls is dangerous, isnt there a problem when we have government officials (like - our junior senator-turned-president leader) with no medical training coming along telling us how to practice medicine? that is what scares me.
[ Reply | Options ]11.17.09, 03:40 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]np: i don't believe you are a medical student. having protocols in place doesn't mean that you have to follow them slavishly. they are there to inform you about what procedures have been shown to be best for the patients! many of them actually don't incorporate cost controls at present, they are there ONLY for the good of the patient. and the protocols are not written by the president, they are written by other physicians after years of carefully controlled studies. are you really unaware of how these things work? and you claim to be a 4th year med student?
[ Reply | Options ]11.18.09, 04:25 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]
sorry, dummy, but doctors who have been practicing medicine instead of learning about it on daddy's dime have different opinions.
[ Reply | Options ]11.17.09, 02:02 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]huh? so doctors who have been practicing medicine and had to pay tuition themselves, WANT to make less? my point was that despite the fact that I am so not in this for the money, I chose this career because Iam passionate about it, I still find some parts of healthcare reform very disconcerting for those of us who practice (or will practice) medicine. THe only reasn I pointed out that my parents paid, is so people wouldnt say "well obviously, your opinio is biased, since you are 200k in debt - obviously you think its unfair." - becaue I am NOT in debt, but I see what my classmates are stressing about, and it is frustrating to know what hte future might hold in the US.
[ Reply | Options ]11.17.09, 02:45 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
If you were right that becoming a doc just isn't worth it, then you'd think that the only folks who become docs would be bottom-of-the-barrel folks with few options. Yet, isn't the opposite true; that so many people want to becoem docs that its hard for a really smart, well trained, hard working person to get into med school?
[ Reply | Options ]11.17.09, 02:25 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]but look at what they end up doing on the back end. because of pay disparities, there aren't enough primary care docs, probably, but we have plenty of dermatologists and plastic surgeons. that's an overgeneralization. of course, but its not false.
[ Reply | Options ]11.17.09, 02:27 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]Docs would be attracted to higher-paying specialities even if they didn't have student loans. Docs avoid rural areas (where the need is greatest) for the same reason that most educated folks do. Got nothing to do with students loans. In fact, smart policy-makers can use the loans as a lever to get some docs out to the boonies.
[ Reply | Options ]11.17.09, 02:43 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
So you're saying medical schools don't currently offer any form of loan repayment assistance? My law school had a loan repayment program (funded by alumni donations) for anyone that opted for a government or non-profit position and made below a certain threshold. I'm surprised to hear that medical schools don't offer the same to graduates that practice in underserved areas or specialties where there is a shortage.
[ Reply | Options ]11.17.09, 02:39 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]such programs do exist and mainly direct new docs to underserved (read: rural) areas. remember Northern Exposure?
[ Reply | Options ]11.17.09, 02:41 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]programs do exist. go work in an underserved area for 3 yrs, and ur work will serve toward loan repayment. med student here who agrees with a previous poster who said it best "Docs would be attracted to higher-paying specialities even if they didn't have student loans. Docs avoid rural areas (where the need is greatest) for the same reason that most educated folks do. Got nothing to do with students loans." and Iam currently applying for peds residencies. not very high paying. by hook or by crook, I am not leaving the tri state area. OTOH, I have a friend who moved to Idaho (read: underserved) for a great positon 2 yrs ago, and is loving it. and they are repaying her loans.
[ Reply | Options ]11.17.09, 02:55 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
I made $440K my first year out of residency in ER medicine working in FL.
[ Reply | Options ]11.17.09, 04:27 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]i don't believe it!
[ Reply | Options ]11.17.09, 08:34 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]It's true. I was working at Shands. FL is the highest paying states for dr.
[ Reply | Options ]11.17.09, 08:54 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
It's not worth the liability to work for so little.
[ Reply | Options ]11.17.09, 04:50 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]hijack here - I think nannies should make more $$
[ Reply | Options ]11.17.09, 08:38 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]and teachers...
[ Reply | Options ]11.17.09, 08:48 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
If money is that important to you, then choose a different job. The pay for doctors is pretty great, by most standards, after a grueling training period. Are you familiar with the average income of a doctor vs the rest of the U.S. population? It is easy to pay back the loans, even for a relatively low-paid physician, if your expectations for your standard of living are not too high. There are plenty of jobs that are incredibly important and much lower-paid than doctor (and that also require student loans).
[ Reply | Options ]11.18.09, 04:28 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]
[+] WOHMs, how much of your net salary goes towards childcare? This is not a bash WOHMS i... 16 replies
- i did this estimate based on my child going to a private school, and me paying nanny for afternoons etc (I'm single parent and wohm), it's a whopiing $60,000 net! Or about $25,000 for childcare. It depends on the age of your child and whether they are in preschool. You need to sit down and work...
Talk : : November 17, 2009
WOHMs, how much of your net salary goes towards childcare? This is not a bash WOHMS in disguise; we are new to NYC and trying to figure out a reasonable budget.
16 replies [ Reply | Watch | Options ]11.17.09, 05:16 AM [ Flag ]45%
[ Reply | Options ]11.17.09, 05:45 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]Thank you.
[ Reply | Options ]11.17.09, 05:54 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]
30% of my personal take-home pay but DH currently making a lot more cabbage than I so a much smaller % of our HHI.
[ Reply | Options ]11.17.09, 06:26 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]To figure out your budget you need to find out what childcare will cost and use that number. Your salary has nothing to do with it, that only comes into play if you're deciding if its worthwhile to WOH or SAH.
[ Reply | Options ]11.17.09, 06:33 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]I agree with this. Daycare in manhattan is about $2K per month per child, but then you don't have to pay for preschool. As for the cost of a nanny -- there are gazillion posts about this.
[ Reply | Options ]11.17.09, 06:46 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]Right. The point I was trying to make is if she gets a bunch of 10% answers because everyone on today makes 500K that doesn't mean that OP can budget 10% of her pay to daycare. As you said it will be $2k or higher per month.
[ Reply | Options ]11.17.09, 09:36 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]
40-50% of net depending on the year.
[ Reply | Options ]11.17.09, 06:48 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]same here, but this doesn't say anything about what percentage of HHI it is.
[ Reply | Options ]11.17.09, 09:40 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]
35% of base, 5% of base+bonus for past 5 years.
[ Reply | Options ]11.17.09, 06:53 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]15%- if you combine with my dh's then 10%-
[ Reply | Options ]11.17.09, 07:25 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]Well, I work at home when my baby is sleeping, and I'm just debating whether it is worthwhile to pay for childcare, which is why I asked.
[ Reply | Options ]11.17.09, 09:14 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]its an evolving thing. when your baby is more mobile and naps less, this plan may not work as well as now. also if you get more work or have more time pressure it might not work.
[ Reply | Options ]11.17.09, 09:43 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]That's exactly the position I'm in now... I'm a writer operating under deadlines and I'm now working at night till 11 or 12 to get a job done--but childcare would obviously take a huge chunk of my income. I have other children in school too, and so I can't work at night until they're settled, which isn't usually till around 9. I guess I just need to suck it up and pay for childcare.
[ Reply | Options ]11.17.09, 09:52 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]do you have SAH friends who'd be willing to swap childcare?
[ Reply | Options ]11.17.09, 09:57 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]Possibly... although most of my friends have school-aged kids... this is my 4th child and she is a lot younger than the others, so I'm kind of out of the baby loop.
[ Reply | Options ]11.17.09, 10:03 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]
i did this estimate based on my child going to a private school, and me paying nanny for afternoons etc (I'm single parent and wohm), it's a whopiing $60,000 net! Or about $25,000 for childcare. It depends on the age of your child and whether they are in preschool. You need to sit down and work out how many hours a week you need the nanny for. Most people don't take into account how many days the schools are closed for, they actually only oeprate for about 35 weeks a year, which leaves about 15 weeks of fulltime childcare for you to cover as well as school costs and afternoon care. Also, you need to cover nanny's holidays and bonus.
[ Reply | Options ]11.17.09, 09:49 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]
[+] Reasons to have dc#2? 17 replies
- single child homes are nor MORE common than 2 child homes. just FYI. it's your parents generation that thinks it's the thing to do....
- I've known many adult only children who always wanted a sibling, esp as their parents get older. Ultimately though you need to want to have another child....
Talk : : November 16, 2009
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To have a gang.
[ Reply | Options ]11.16.09, 08:50 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]you love strollers and poop, oh, and more trophy children fills a void in your life.
[ Reply | Options ]11.16.09, 09:52 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]can you afford it? how old is dc #1?
[ Reply | Options ]11.16.09, 09:55 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]You've decided that you don't want to sleep, after all. Highly overrated. But seriously, the only reasons should be because you really want another child, and a sibling for your dc.
[ Reply | Options ]11.17.09, 01:40 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]I'm struggling with the same question. I am really happy with my DS but feel pressure to have another since that's what people are "supposed" to do.
[ Reply | Options ]11.17.09, 04:40 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]single child homes are nor MORE common than 2 child homes. just FYI. it's your parents generation that thinks it's the thing to do.
[ Reply | Options ]11.17.09, 05:19 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]disagree- i think 3 is the new 2.
[ Reply | Options ]11.17.09, 05:52 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]please - 4 is the new three, you mean.
[ Reply | Options ]11.17.09, 10:37 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]
you are not "supposed" to have a second child and you should resist any pressure from anyone who tells you this.
[ Reply | Options ]11.17.09, 09:01 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]
to increase the odds that someone will take care of you when you are old.
[ Reply | Options ]11.17.09, 05:09 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]I think siblings are beneficial for children, someone to share not just toys but experiences with, and I like having more relational dynamics in our family. I've known many adult only children who always wanted a sibling, esp as their parents get older. Ultimately though you need to want to have another child.
[ Reply | Options ]11.17.09, 05:34 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]in case one dies u still have one
[ Reply | Options ]11.17.09, 05:50 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]So they have each other when you and DH pass on. To teach DC about sharing his or her life with someone. To have more laughter in the house.
[ Reply | Options ]11.17.09, 06:15 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]np: I like your answers.
[ Reply | Options ]11.17.09, 06:25 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]np: excellent response. we're happy with one, and this almost makes me want to rethink it!
[ Reply | Options ]11.17.09, 10:35 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]based on some of the stories i hear, number one is not necessarily true, you can teach dc to share without a sibling. laughter is a good one, though
[ Reply | Options ]11.17.09, 10:39 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]
OP I am strugling with the same question. I feel the pressure because everyone around here our age has 2-3 kids...I think I want more (actually, I know I want more), but I dont know if I want more NOW. its not financial. we can handle another one. its not space, we have 3 brs. its more just- I am really enjoying every moment with DS1, and I dont know i want to "taint" it yet with morning sickness, worries, insomnia (from pregnancy) and lack of sleep (from birth of baby).
[ Reply | Options ]11.17.09, 10:40 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]
[+] What percentage of families whose dc did not get into FC are happy nonetheless? I fe... 22 replies
- The thing is, a tour and parent interview and open house only tell you so much about a school. What you think you love at first sight, may or may...
- a very high percentage would be my guess. we didn't apply to a single school we didn't think was great in some way. so we would have been happy in the last choice school. maybe happiest,...
Talk : : November 16, 2009
What percentage of families whose dc did not get into FC are happy nonetheless? I feel like every person you meet says they're happy at current school, even if it wasn't first or second or even third choice. Is this rationalization or real happiness?
22 replies [ Reply | Watch | Options ]11.16.09, 06:01 PM [ Flag ]I don't know, but I'm thinking you'd have to make yourself love a school for which you're paying 35k in tuition.
[ Reply | Options ]11.16.09, 06:06 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]I agree.
[ Reply | Options ]11.16.09, 06:07 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
I have no real answer to your question, but I think if you get into a school that is far down on your list you need to buck up and make the best of it, right? on the other side of the coin, I also have a feeling that there is a fair amount of buyer's remorse when you get in your fc...wondering if things could have been better elsewhere.
[ Reply | Options ]11.16.09, 06:08 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]I see, it can both ways. It is a tremendous amt of money yr in and yr out so I'm sure it brings up a lot thought in many directions.
[ Reply | Options ]11.16.09, 06:13 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]hugh? you get in your "fc" and you
[ Reply | Options ]11.16.09, 06:13 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]are still complaining? pulease
[ Reply | Options ]11.16.09, 06:14 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
np We've never felt that way, and we knew our fc very early on. Perfect school for dc.
[ Reply | Options ]11.16.09, 06:15 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]Same here. Maybe we were lucky?
[ Reply | Options ]11.17.09, 09:21 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]Aside from lucky stars, what do you attribute to the good match btwn your dc and school?
[ Reply | Options ]11.17.09, 12:42 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
If you try, sometimes you get what you need.
[ Reply | Options ]11.16.09, 06:12 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]thanks, mick.
[ Reply | Options ]11.17.09, 12:56 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
The thing is, a tour and parent interview and open house only tell you so much about a school. What you think you love at first sight, may or may not be true love. OTOH, once your dc is at a school, you may discover that there is much to love about it. The fact is, when I hear people talk about the differences among some of these schools, it's all smoke and mirrors, as the differences are really slight and might actually not be the ones that appear at first glance.
[ Reply | Options ]11.16.09, 06:24 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]We are surprised how much we like our second choice. And it will now be our 1st choice for younger dc, when the time comes.
[ Reply | Options ]11.16.09, 06:28 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]False dichotomy: lots of real happiness comes from looking at good aspects of what you've got and not looking at others who have more.
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