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[+] I understand why women who had natural births feel that it's an accomplishment. I ha... 125 replies
- to prove, so do athletes, musicians and rock climbers. With childbirth, there is a satisfaction in achieving that and many women have natural births because they feel its better for them and their dc...
- huh? where are you getting this natural weight cut-off info? the birth weight that people can handle is...thing is not the superiority SOME mothers may have about natural childbirth, but the defensiveness of those who did not. Why...
Talk : : November 18, 2009
I understand why women who had natural births feel that it's an accomplishment. I had an epidural with my 1st and had a great experience. Completely planned on doing that again with #2. Unfortunately, he came very quickly and I went drug-free. The pain is ridiculous, but it's all mental. It could have been a very zen experience where I was learning to control mind over matter, which is what I think those who know they'll do it drug-free try to accomplish. Instead, I was screaming my face off. I give kudos to anyone who would do that willingly.
125 replies [ Reply | Watch | Options ]11.18.09, 04:04 PM [ Flag ]i still think most people who do that willingly feel like they have something to prove. maybe not all of them, but alot of the women i know do it for that reason for sure.
[ Reply | Options ]11.18.09, 04:40 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]agree
[ Reply | Options ]11.18.09, 04:43 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]People who go to certain schools have something to prove, so do athletes, musicians and rock climbers. With childbirth, there is a satisfaction in achieving that and many women have natural births because they feel its better for them and their dc.
[ Reply | Options ]11.18.09, 05:01 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]An OB/GYN once told me that "natural childbirth" is v birth -- with or without drugs. She got annoyed with people discounting v birth (with drugs) as NOT being natural. So let's say natural childbirth with or without drugs, and not knock women who decide to use the drugs. Why in the world would you not choose to use this medical advance if you could? Of course, some situations don't allow for it, and I feel for women who have to go without. God bless you.
[ Reply | Options ]11.18.09, 06:11 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]why would we choose it? Because it's better for the baby and better for the mother.
[ Reply | Options ]11.18.09, 06:33 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]nope. try again. or is this what makes you feel superior to everyone else on the planet?
[ Reply | Options ]11.18.09, 06:45 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]Sorry the facts make you feel inferior.
[ Reply | Options ]11.18.09, 06:49 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]sorry your "facts" have no basis.
[ Reply | Options ]11.18.09, 07:02 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]Drugs make their way to the baby, which cause a sedative effect. This has been proven. Why are you so intent on ignoring facts?
[ Reply | Options ]11.19.09, 11:40 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]actually, that hasn't been proven at all, and i defy you to post a link to a study that shows otherwise.
[ Reply | Options ]11.19.09, 04:33 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]The website of the American Pregnancy Association, the natl org. or OBGYNs, enumerates multiple risks of epidurals on the following website, including the following summary of available research, which acknowledges that research is "somewhat" ambiguous, it also notes that babies of epidural mothers have respiratory distress, bf'ing difficulty, and fetal heart rate variability. " Though research is somewhat ambiguous, most studies suggest some babies will have trouble "latching on" which can lead to breastfeeding difficulties. Other studies suggest that the baby may experience respiratory depression, fetal malpositioning; and an increase in fetal heart rate variability, which may increase the need for forceps, vacuum, cesarean deliveries and episiotomies." http://www.americanpregnancy.org/labornbirth/epidural.html
[ Reply | Options ]11.19.09, 05:15 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]http://www.americanpregnancy.org/labornbirth/epidural.html
[ Reply | Options ]11.19.09, 05:17 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
Why do you have to talk down to women who choose it? I have had 3 natural childbirths because I had an epidural with the first (I have 4 kids) and I *really* didn't like how it felt. I also feel my recoveries were faster with the natural chidlbirths. Have I proven something? Am I smug? NO. But it worked for me and I don't like your attitude of 'why in the world...' as if anyone who chooses med-free birth is dysfunctional.
[ Reply | Options ]11.19.09, 04:32 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
ITA - i had an epi with #1 and it was a really nice, peaceful experience, no epi with #2 and i felt totally out of control and delirious with pain and as a result don't have a single pleasant memory of my sons birth
[ Reply | Options ]11.18.09, 05:25 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]Eh, some do, but some don't. I would seriously consider it only bc I have a terrible reaction to drugs & my mother got permanent nerve damage from her last epi, so I'm scared shitless of that. I am not an earth-mother or anything like that, I just like the idea of quicker recovery time & no needle in my spine.
[ Reply | Options ]11.19.09, 07:37 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]
i don't think it's an accomplishment because you don't gain anything from it. you can get a perfectly healthy baby with an epidural. it's like holding your hand over an open flame without flinching. is that an accomplishment? not in my book.
[ Reply | Options ]11.18.09, 04:43 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]I feel like once you get an epidural it invites many more interventions by the MDs, most of which I feel are unnecessary and benefit the Drs more than the mother or the baby (does anyone really know effects of all these procedures on babies? I don't think they've been well studied, personally - and I'm not sure that a decent study is even possible). And result in the 30%+ c-section rate, which is definitely NOT in the mother's best interest.
[ Reply | Options ]11.18.09, 05:05 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]I made my decision to do natural for the same reasons. Its not something I "urge" on other women necessarily, but based on what I had read, I was concerned that an epidural could increase my chances of having a c-section, which I very much wanted to avoid. Its also why I chose to work with a midwife.
[ Reply | Options ]11.18.09, 05:29 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]Me too, 4 drug free births.
[ Reply | Options ]11.18.09, 06:14 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]mooooo.
[ Reply | Options ]11.18.09, 06:46 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]NR: Classy
[ Reply | Options ]11.18.09, 07:41 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
Epidurals can lead to many other complications. Our bodies were made to give birth and we undergo a multitude of chemical changes when we give birth naturally which are beneficial for the mom and the baby. Its not an ego thing, but yes an accomplishment none the less.
[ Reply | Options ]11.18.09, 05:08 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]Cancer is a natural process also. Does that mean we should endure it without chemo or pain control since that's what nature intended?
[ Reply | Options ]11.18.09, 05:12 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]NP: if it made it more likely that you would survive cancer w/o complications, then maybe yes. However, that's really not the case, is it? Chemo will cure cancer that would otherwise be fatal. Pain Mngmt will not make it worse/affect outcome. Can you really not see the difference between birth and cancer?
[ Reply | Options ]11.18.09, 05:18 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]are you saying you have evidence to support the idea that NOT getting an epidural increases neonatal survival? the "it's natual" argument is really one of the silliest and weakest around. you want no epi, go for it. but don't try to imply it's somehow inherently better because "it's natual."
[ Reply | Options ]11.18.09, 05:32 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]YES, of course! It's a medical intervention, and as ALL medical interventions, it has risks. One of them is increase in c-section rates, which is a serious surgical procedure, that has its own death rate, etc. Others include other side effects. Not saying that it's never worth it to have an epi (or a c-section for that matter), just that it has risks and I am not convinced that for a non-high-risk delivery these risks are justified.
[ Reply | Options ]11.18.09, 05:48 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]then YOU should definitely not have an epidural
[ Reply | Options ]11.18.09, 06:02 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]you're a mean jerk.
[ Reply | Options ]11.18.09, 06:25 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
Making the statement that all medical interventions have risks is pretty ridiculous, considering that the LACK of medical intervention, in many situations, is also very risky.
[ Reply | Options ]11.18.09, 07:33 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]np - huh? you make no sense. the poster specifically acknowledged that the risks may be justified and worth it under certain circumstances.
[ Reply | Options ]11.18.09, 07:40 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
It is an accomplishment - huge one. But it's totally an ego thing.
[ Reply | Options ]11.18.09, 05:14 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]Periods are natural, too, doesn't mean I'll give up BCP.
[ Reply | Options ]11.18.09, 05:15 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]this is just propaganda perpetuated by the pro-natural birth types. it's simply not true.
[ Reply | Options ]11.18.09, 05:28 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]And your unsubstantiated opinion on an anonymous board will change my mind?
[ Reply | Options ]11.18.09, 05:36 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]np: that epidurals lead to many other complications? that is true! i had an epidural. but in doing so, i recognized that there are trade-offs. for me, the pain was so bad that i chose the epidural. but epidurals do up the chances that you will have to get a c-section, which is major surgery after all.
[ Reply | Options ]11.18.09, 05:36 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]^^the reason why they HAVE to do fetal monitoring after the epidural is because of the heightened risk of problems for the infant. it is serious medicine and some infants do have bad reactions!
[ Reply | Options ]11.18.09, 05:37 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]no, they don't. the only increased risk is an instrumental delivery, and even this doesn't control for the possibility that the women who opted for epidural pain control did so because their labor was more painful related to a predisposing likelihood of instrumental delivery.
[ Reply | Options ]11.18.09, 05:40 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]this study properly controlled for whether or not studies randomized epidurals and found a 2 fold risk of c-sections for those given epidurals: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1481670/
[ Reply | Options ]11.18.09, 05:43 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]single studies are relatively meaningless. even the repeat cochrane (gold standard) in 2005 showed no increased rate of cs.
[ Reply | Options ]11.18.09, 05:47 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]it is reanalyzing the cochrane data!
[ Reply | Options ]11.18.09, 05:50 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
Ugh. This is NOT a study. It's a statistical data rehash. If you don't understand what you are posting, please don't post. There should be a license required to access pubmed.
[ Reply | Options ]11.18.09, 05:49 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]a statistical reanalysis is indeed a study. if you don't understand what a study is, please don't post.
[ Reply | Options ]11.18.09, 05:50 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]Obtuse
[ Reply | Options ]11.18.09, 05:55 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]np: actually, you sound kind of arrogant and obtuse. if you have a point to make, please make it. but it sounds like you have no real rebuttal to whatever study that poster put up a link to right now.
[ Reply | Options ]11.18.09, 05:57 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]Do your own research - assuming you actually know how. I have neither the time nor energy to do a lit search, then explain stats and study design to you. If you can't do this yourself and want to engage in discussions about evidence-based medicine, perhaps go back to school to learn how.
[ Reply | Options ]11.18.09, 06:01 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]NNP: Oh my gosh, i think i remember this poster from a breastfeeding discussion a couple weeks back. Somebody posted all these links about how breastfeeding hasn't been shown to have any benefits, and she kept telling telling everyone to "do their own research" when they asked her to support her view (that it has lots of benefits). Ask her to post a link! She will keep saying it over and over, no matter how many people confront her. It's kind of fun.
[ Reply | Options ]11.18.09, 06:05 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]oooh you're nasty! that poster just asked you to provide a real response... which you have yet to do. insults don't really count!
[ Reply | Options ]11.18.09, 06:09 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]nope, that poster was me and this is the first I'm posting on this thread. PS - Breastfeeding does have lots of benefits...look it up! :-)
[ Reply | Options ]11.18.09, 06:11 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]it probably does, but it is hard to demonstrate statistically!
[ Reply | Options ]11.18.09, 06:12 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]LOL, everyone has joined the discussion.
[ Reply | Options ]11.18.09, 06:13 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]yeah, I guess us crazy breasfeeding, natural childbirth having moms just sound the same...
[ Reply | Options ]11.18.09, 06:27 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
When you have nothing to say, best to call names huh? Very mature!
[ Reply | Options ]11.18.09, 06:01 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
NP: I don't understand why you think that is not a study. There are plenty of other, newer studies whose findings contradict theirs. But it is indeed a study! Why so rude? It makes you look ignorant.
[ Reply | Options ]11.18.09, 05:52 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
and what are effects of instrumental delivery on a child? does anyone know? also, there are many many other side effects of epidurals (including as severe as potential paralysis for the mom)
[ Reply | Options ]11.18.09, 05:45 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]the risk of instrumental deliveries are significant. however, it is nearly impossible to control for pain/epidural usage and any preexisting L&D issues which would impact a laboring woman's decision to have the epidural *independent* of the increased risk of an instrumental delivery.
[ Reply | Options ]11.18.09, 05:52 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]any intervention carries risks (including instrumental delivery).
[ Reply | Options ]11.18.09, 05:53 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
NP: please, prove me wrong if you can, but I believe that we currently don't have any sort of real handle on the risks associated with epidurals. can you link to a study that has randomized them? all of the studies that i am familiar with randomize timing of the epidural (early vs late) but not epidural itself. so we don't know what the risks are. i think it is silly to assume that there are none, however. any kind of intervention is associated with some sort of risks--the are just poorly understood in this case, so it is hard to balance pros/cons.
[ Reply | Options ]11.18.09, 06:00 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]I agree, and thanks for stating this so clearly. I thoroughly believe that women need to do their own reading/assessment and make their own decision. Its not clearcut, and obviously there are circumstances that absolutely necessitate epis and c-secs, but go into your labor having formed some of your own opinions.(Posted above and below but not to the "study" debate.)
[ Reply | Options ]11.18.09, 06:04 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]Yes, I think there are really no right or wrong choices here, at least as far as we know now!
[ Reply | Options ]11.18.09, 06:08 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
there are studies comparing epidural to opiate pain relief that show no difference in cs. but my point was essentially the same as yours - that the risks are not conclusively proven. it's ethically difficult to randomly assign people to pain control vs no pain control regardless of their preference so i doubt we will ever have a conclusive answer.
[ Reply | Options ]11.18.09, 06:13 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
yes our bodies are made to give birth but they were made to give birth to babies that were significantly smaller than the babies being born today, so if we can all have 6lb babies we should be fine but our bodies were not made to give birth to 8lb+ babies
[ Reply | Options ]11.18.09, 05:29 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]huh? where are you getting this natural weight cut-off info? the birth weight that people can handle is usually related to their size. taller women can usually handle larger babies. as heights have increased, it makes sense that birthweights have also increased. there is nothing unnatural about 8 lb babies (except for in the cases of gestational diabetes, etc.)
[ Reply | Options ]11.18.09, 05:34 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]NP: And honestly anatomy varies even across the size of the mom. I gave birth naturally to an 8 lb, 4 oz baby. Non-pregant size is/was 5'4" and 125-ish lbs.
[ Reply | Options ]11.18.09, 05:38 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]agreed. i gave birth to an almost 9 lber and i am 5'2"!
[ Reply | Options ]11.18.09, 05:44 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]10.2 lbs, im 5 foot 1 and 125 lbs. No one thought I could do it, pregnant with number 2 now, he is going to be at least 8 according to the doctors now! I dont think height/size have anything to do with whether you can do it naturally or not, lets call it what it is, if you dont want to feel pain, get an epi, no big deal but jsut because we want natural childbirth because its what every woman on earth did before an epi was available, doesnt make me some kind of martyr.
[ Reply | Options ]11.18.09, 07:19 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]but every woman died at age 40. is that what you want? oh, and i'm assuming women with lots of junk in the trunk and hips the width of an airplane hangar can deliver any size baby with no issues.
[ Reply | Options ]11.18.09, 07:42 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]Um, no, I think all the posts indicate that the external size of the women matters very little. Being small doesn't mean a woman can't deliver naturally, and being large idn't a guarantee that she can.
[ Reply | Options ]11.18.09, 07:48 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]^^^isn't
[ Reply | Options ]11.18.09, 07:49 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]np. hip width is an issue.
[ Reply | Options ]11.18.09, 07:50 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
how quick is quick -- curious
[ Reply | Options ]11.18.09, 04:47 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]Quick for me was standing at the mall and having my water break, no contractions, and holding my baby less than 2 hours later. I only had about a half hour of contractions that I could feel. I am the OR
[ Reply | Options ]11.18.09, 06:04 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]OP: Quick for me was thinking that I might be in labor - contractions were very, very mild. Decided to drive to the hospital and was in L&D for less than 40 minutes before DB was born. Whole labor was about 90 minutes.
[ Reply | Options ]11.18.09, 06:40 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]np: quick for me was 1 hour between water breaking and delivery.
[ Reply | Options ]11.19.09, 10:38 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]
Having seen women who have given birth naturally and those who have planned natural but gone for epis, I think their experience of labor is completely different. People have different pain threshholds, physically and psychologically. I have seen women literally pass out from pain during labor and women who were not in excruciating pain. It is the women who are lucky enough to not have an unbearable labor experience who were generally willing and able to go natural.
[ Reply | Options ]11.18.09, 05:15 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]Oh really?! We did it because it did not really hurt that much. Riiiight..got it.
[ Reply | Options ]11.18.09, 06:16 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]np: The OR here is nuts. Spoken like someone who has never had natural childbirth. PS - how on earth does someone know they are "lucky" enough to have a "bearable" experience if it's their first and decide to go natural, like I did?
[ Reply | Options ]11.18.09, 06:26 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]np: i get or's point. not sure if i agree, but i get it. i'm not really sure what point you are trying to make beyond proving the cliche that you DID in fact have something to prove and DO want that medal for not having the epidural.
[ Reply | Options ]11.18.09, 06:27 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]That was pretty funny wasn't it??? lol. Because let me just say that having my 9 pound 10 ounce baby without any meds hurt like all holy hell!!! (but I'd still do it again).
[ Reply | Options ]11.18.09, 06:29 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]np: uh yeah. Having my baby drug free hurt like nothing I've ever thought possible. But I can't wait to do it again. And I'm one of the people who posted on accomplishments post that it was one of my top 2 accomplishments in life. I worked hard, mentally and physically, to prepare and to achieve that goal.
[ Reply | Options ]11.18.09, 06:32 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
OR: It was not meant as a personal insult to state that people have diffent experiences of pain during labor. I'm curious why this offends you and makes you feel like you need to defend the idea that you were in pain? Does the fact that you suffered have anything to do with why you chose a natural childbirth? You don't need to prove that you endured pain to be confident of your decision. None of the women who made the choice with me to have a natural birth ever cited a desire to suffer as a reason why, but of course you are entitled to your own motivations. Anyway, I have been at hundreds of births and have 3 dc, one natural (not by choice). There is no doubt in my mind that labor can be completely different in terms of pain for me personally amongst my births, and for all the women I've seen go thru it. There is no right or better choice and suffering more doesn't validate your choice. You don't need validation for a perfectly reasonable decision. My point was that there are factors at play beyond just desire when it comes to natural/epidural. Some women truly have an unbearable pain experience: unbearable as in they could not withstand the pain and needed pain relief available regardless of their ideal birth plan (similar to an extreme example of anyone will eventually reach a pain limit if subject to torture long enough). I just believe that a lot of labor and delivery is beyond our control and no women should feel defensive, guilty, or too proud of any choice. As with all of life, it's part choice and part fate/God's will/luck (whatever your spiritual belief).
[ Reply | Options ]11.18.09, 06:45 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]^completely different in terms of pain for me personally amongst my births, and for all the women I've seen go thru it. There is no right or better choice and suffering more doesn't validate your choice. You don't need validation for a perfectly reasonable decision. My point was that there are factors at play beyond just desire when it comes to natural/epidural. Some women truly have an unbearable pain experience: unbearable as in they could not withstand the pain and needed pain relief available regardless of their ideal birth plan (similar to an extreme example of anyone will eventually reach a pain limit if subject to torture long enough). I just believe that a lot of labor and delivery is beyond our control and no women should feel defensive, guilty, or too proud of any choice. As with all of life, it's part choice and part fate/God's will/luck (whatever your spiritual belief).
[ Reply | Options ]11.18.09, 06:46 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]^and no women should feel defensive, guilty, or too proud of any choice. As with all of life, it's part choice and part fate/God's will/luck (whatever your spiritual belief).
[ Reply | Options ]11.18.09, 06:46 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
oh give it up...if you're a nurse or a doula, you don't sound very empathetic.
[ Reply | Options ]11.18.09, 06:47 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]OR: Neither. Supporting a woman's choice to have a natural birth or epidural is the easy part. The challenge is assuaging the guilt of a laboring woman who was certain she would do natural, but simply cannot endure the pain any longer and needs pain relief. Unfortunately, women, their spouse, and their families often put unhealthy and unfair pressures on women to "succeed" at a natural birth. The biggest challenge is helping a woman realize that a healthy birth is a successful one, regardless of how they get there.
[ Reply | Options ]11.18.09, 07:03 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]clap, clap, clap!
[ Reply | Options ]11.18.09, 07:15 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]who's family or dh pushed natural childbirth? God my family thought I'd need a C bc the baby was getting big and I'm tiny = they were right. They also didn't care whether I bf or not. Just happy I'm I had a healthy baby who was getting fed
[ Reply | Options ]11.19.09, 09:46 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]sorry whose
[ Reply | Options ]11.19.09, 09:47 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]
WTH does this have to do with those of us who are proud of having a natural childbirth though? Simply because some can't/don't, we can't feel proud?
[ Reply | Options ]11.19.09, 08:09 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
Sometimes interventions with epi etc can actually benefit the baby greatly - quicker birth etc
[ Reply | Options ]11.18.09, 05:15 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]I understand too. I had an epidural because it hurt so bad! I can't imagine having the strength to go through that without drugs, and for normal births the outcomes are better. So hats off to the moms who can do it!
[ Reply | Options ]11.18.09, 05:27 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]I had two natural births and one (my third) with an epidural. The epidural felt surreal and freaky - how little pain there was during hard labor - but I felt physically better so much faster after the natural births. I have a high pain threshhold though and had reasonablt quick and uncomplicated labors. If I were doing it again I would definitely do natural.
[ Reply | Options ]11.18.09, 06:00 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]OP: I did like how much better I felt after the natural birth. I could have walked out of the hospital right after delivery. With the epidural, I was knocked out and in incredible pain once it wore off.
[ Reply | Options ]11.18.09, 06:45 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
I don't think that some women have higher pain thresholds. I think that SOME births are easier than others. I had 2 relatively quick, non-medicated births. One was manageable, the other was not (I was a wreck, like the OP described her experience).
[ Reply | Options ]11.18.09, 06:15 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]both pain threshold and pain tolerance are variable between individuals. it is absolutely true that some women have higher and some lower pain thresholds. this is not debatable. this combines with different labors to create a subjectively different birth experience between women and even within one woman's mulitple birth experiences.
[ Reply | Options ]11.18.09, 06:24 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]Okay. You sound like you know what you're talking about. My own experiences were very different, surprisingly so.
[ Reply | Options ]11.18.09, 06:34 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]I had three deliveries, and three very different pain experiences. It is not all subjective. During one delivery I sustained a very severe tear (4th degree I believe is what they called it), tore through to rectum, THAT was excruciating. The baby presented as posterior AND brow, and should have been delivered by C. He has significant disabilities BTW. We will never know for sure what role the delivery might have played in that too. I bled daily from the wound site for a year. I was in a lousy HMO (midwife delivered) and they kept telling me I was just taking a long time to heal from a very difficult delivery. FInally consulted an MD (at my own expense) outside the HMO a year later, and apparently it looked like I had a no-intervention delivery in the wild somewhere, lots of damage to my body. The idea deliveries are only "subjectively" more or less painful is BS. It all depends on how the baby presents, the size of the baby, the size of the mother, and whether or not it is a first delivery.
[ Reply | Options ]11.18.09, 07:10 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]btw in that delivery I was in so much pain at one point I lost the ability to talk, all I could do was moan, it was so horrible if I had been given a loaded gun I would have put myself out of my misery.
[ Reply | Options ]11.18.09, 07:12 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]i am sorry for your experience. but pain threshold is, by definition, subjective. i agree that more severe medically complicated deliveries are, on average, perceived as more painful than uncomplicated ones. if you took 100 volunteers and gave them a superficial laceration or a full-thickness laceration, i agree that all would report a greater degree of pain with the latter. but that has nothing to do with my point, which I stand by, that pain threshold and pain tolerance are subjective experiences, measurable, but subjectively reported differently by different individuals.
[ Reply | Options ]11.18.09, 07:35 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
okayyyyy, and for anyone who wants the real facts, I urge you to read "pregnancy, childbirth and the newborn" by Penny Simkin. She not only explains everything that could potentially happen with every single intervention you could have, she does it in a way that makes no one feel inferior for their choices
[ Reply | Options ]11.18.09, 07:16 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]what's sad to me-- and i have done a lot of professional research in this area-- is that the entire debate so often centers around the epidural. get one, don't, whatever. the word "natural" should be banned. but what's really lame is UNNECESSARY inductions, episiotomies and c-sections. All of those are really unpleasant things (unlike pain medication). And yet us women are all bitching about who was tough enough for the pain. I had births both ways, the pain is ATROCIOUS. I loved my non medicated and medicated birth. What I hated about the medicated birth was the entire experience ASIDE from the epidural. What I loved about my non-pain medicated birth was the entire experience except for the pain (though I will say the post labor pain euphoria does exist and I healed 50 times faster with no meds.)
[ Reply | Options ]11.18.09, 07:45 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]I agree with a good 90% of what you're saying, but I don't think most of the women who delivered naturally and are posting about it tonight are priding ourselves on being tough: many of us made a decision that we thought would give us the best chance of avoiding other interventions because we don't have control over a medical system that tends to encourage interventions.
[ Reply | Options ]11.18.09, 07:54 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]i agree with you 100% -- didn't mean to attack.
[ Reply | Options ]11.18.09, 08:34 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]It just bothers me when other women say they choose no meds because of ego. There are so many other factors involved.
[ Reply | Options ]11.19.09, 04:31 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
Until you've delivered a child naturally, you have no idea how incredibly painful, yet wonderful, the birthing of a human being can be.
[ Reply | Options ]11.19.09, 05:39 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]my #2 came very quickly and although i remember it being painful, it wasnt at all as painful as i thought i might be...
[ Reply | Options ]11.19.09, 09:04 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]and those poor, deprived women who have to have c section, they just have no idea how wonderful the birthing of a human being is.
[ Reply | Options ]11.19.09, 09:19 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]
Thanks for the kudos! My OB said the same thing. It was brutal but worth it -- I'm planning to go through it again in a few weeks with #2.
[ Reply | Options ]11.19.09, 07:33 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]i'm not sure it's all mental, but i must say that it wasn't as bad as i thought.
[ Reply | Options ]11.19.09, 07:38 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]There is an inbetween. I had an epidural but had them turn it off when getting closer to pushing.
[ Reply | Options ]11.19.09, 08:51 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]The only thing that mattered to me about my pregnancy was the baby it was going to produce. I understand that some women choose to refuse pain meds and why, but that does not make them better people or better mothers. I really don't get why someone would develop some superiority complex over going without an epi, and judge those who do to boot..
[ Reply | Options ]11.19.09, 08:55 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]ITA with this.
[ Reply | Options ]11.19.09, 09:06 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]tritto
[ Reply | Options ]11.19.09, 09:08 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]
I heard of a woman who delivered an 11lb baby without an epi. Her pelvis broke. Try that without pain meds.
[ Reply | Options ]11.19.09, 08:59 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]how horrible. I think it is ridiculous to go without needed pain meds, and I would not do without pain relief at the dentist's either, it is all so ridiculous, what an idiotic contest.
[ Reply | Options ]11.19.09, 09:07 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]A-MEN!
[ Reply | Options ]11.19.09, 09:10 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]I had open heart surgery without pain meds. It was such a wonderful experience. Painful but I'm glad I went through it. I hope I can contract another life-threatening disease so I can prove myself this way again!
[ Reply | Options ]11.19.09, 09:22 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]your an ass
[ Reply | Options ]11.19.09, 04:28 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
I heard of a woman who didn't realize she was in labor until the baby was practically out.
[ Reply | Options ]11.19.09, 04:30 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
maybe they'll make a new category for it at the Olympics. Then you all can display your evident superiority to the whole world on television.
[ Reply | Options ]11.19.09, 09:12 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]now that i would definitely need a brazilian before birth.
[ Reply | Options ]11.19.09, 09:13 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]
for me, pain is not a character-building experience. It's just something to get through.
[ Reply | Options ]11.19.09, 09:22 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]Hey before epidurals and other modes of pain suppression everyone went through natural childbirth. I see no need to go back to the olden days but it's everyone's individual choice of course
[ Reply | Options ]11.19.09, 09:34 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]One interesting thing is not the superiority SOME mothers may have about natural childbirth, but the defensiveness of those who did not. Why are women chastising each other for making different choices? It's so pointless.
[ Reply | Options ]11.19.09, 11:53 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]ITA. I have had 3 drug-free births and one epidural and I am not smug about either choice. I chose to have drug-free births after the epidural b/c I really did not like the way the epi (and other pain meds) made me feel. I also felt I recovered faster without drugs. I don't understand why EITHER side has to talk down to the other, or why there even have to be 'sides.' We all gave birth. We all have children. The End.
[ Reply | Options ]11.19.09, 04:34 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
[+] For the lady who's planning an UB get-together in a NYC private school: please facto... 25 replies
- wouldn't it be fun to see who these trolls are? i'd like to know who keeps picking on the breastfeeding/natural childbirth moms in the greatest achievements post....
Talk : : November 15, 2009
For the lady who's planning an UB get-together in a NYC private school: please factor in the cost of several armed security guards. Such mean trolls looking for fights in this group, there's sure to be trouble at your party!
25 replies [ Reply | Watch | Options ]11.15.09, 04:47 PM [ Flag ]wouldn't it be fun to see who these trolls are? i'd like to know who keeps picking on the breastfeeding/natural childbirth moms in the greatest achievements post.
[ Reply | Options ]11.15.09, 04:48 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]do you think they are really ugly women irl? or perhaps beautiful, rich, yet 'empty' women devoid of friends?? hmmmm....
[ Reply | Options ]11.15.09, 04:51 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]Yes only ugly women ask for an epidural
[ Reply | Options ]11.15.09, 04:53 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]OR: lol, i wonder if they would pretend to be nice or if they would be really abrasive irl too. by the way, i totally begged for an epidural, and for that reason i can understand why somebody would be proud that they could go without!
[ Reply | Options ]11.15.09, 04:58 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]I love your honesty! I got epidural too, but don't offer that unless asked. Does that make me ugly? Yikes. Welcome to UB---
[ Reply | Options ]11.15.09, 05:14 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]Are there going to be "stations" with signs like: breastfeeding here; bedtime here; cheating husbands here; parents of 99x3 here...?
[ Reply | Options ]11.15.09, 05:24 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]Yes and a big booth with the "ex-prostitute" (with a bag over her head, of course) fielding questions.
[ Reply | Options ]11.15.09, 05:36 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]Ok so I am that mom and I sort of take offense, but I get it, its funny.
[ Reply | Options ]11.15.09, 05:51 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]I still don't believe you.
[ Reply | Options ]11.15.09, 05:54 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]Ok, I probably wouldn't either.
[ Reply | Options ]11.15.09, 06:18 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
OMG, I'm sorry if I insulted you. It's just that I was rapt with attention reading your post last night. Wow...you have led quite a life!
[ Reply | Options ]11.15.09, 05:55 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]I believe her! Come on, re-read that post---it was scary it was so believable!
[ Reply | Options ]11.15.09, 05:56 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]Apparently I haven't at all! Just read somewhere else tonight that every few years an ex-prostitute posts. Not offended, not at all. It is very funny.
[ Reply | Options ]11.15.09, 06:18 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
LOL
[ Reply | Options ]11.15.09, 05:39 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]I absolutely love you, girls...hilarious!
[ Reply | Options ]11.15.09, 05:43 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]ditto
[ Reply | Options ]11.15.09, 05:57 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]I actually am nominating myself to be on the planning committee for this party. It could be hilarious (as long as theres an open bar)
[ Reply | Options ]11.15.09, 06:03 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]Planning Committee! Great idea. I'm the one who suggested the gathering and offered the private school space. But I now see that making this happen should involve more than my naming a time and place, and providing some refreshments. Send an email to h4a51p7p3gaa0ep@jetable.net. I'll convince you that I can deliver suitable space. Then, an ad hoc committee can plan the thing. (Note: that email is a temporary forwarding account. Does not reveal my ID. Does not violate UB Terms of Use.)
[ Reply | Options ]11.15.09, 09:21 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
And My 16 yo Rides in a Stroller.
[ Reply | Options ]11.15.09, 06:06 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]That's How She Rooolllllssss
[ Reply | Options ]11.15.09, 06:19 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
Wouldn't that be such a weird evening. I need a few wines just to get the courage to walk in the door!
[ Reply | Options ]11.15.09, 05:37 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]I'd need a few bottles. And some sort of a latex mask. Can you imagine people scattering as they spied people they knew; it would be high comedy.
[ Reply | Options ]11.15.09, 06:07 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]No mask necessary. The committee has already taken care of that issue. Upon check-in, those fake glasses/nose/bushy mustache concealers will be given to you.
[ Reply | Options ]11.15.09, 06:12 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
There will be dunking booths as well. The poster who puts her db to bed then goes out at night will be the first one up on the pedestal.
[ Reply | Options ]11.15.09, 06:17 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]The evening would have to include the crowning of Sanctimomy. We'll also name the "parents most likely to produce HYP offspring," as well as the "troll most likely to end up living under a bridge." But the contest everyone will try to win is "the most grounded, least competitive parent." I think we should limit that contest to New Yorkers (because its much easier to stay grounded and noncompetitive when you are in the wilderness).
[ Reply | Options ]11.15.09, 07:08 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
[+] Looking back on your adult life: What single life accomplishment makes you most proud... 176 replies
- ITA! I TRIED natural and ended up screaming for the drugs once the...
- there's really no difference between going through natural childbirth and having a tooth extracted without anesthesia. and...sure it's because of defensive anti-bf and anti-natural childbirth posters. Why all the hate, just let people enjoy...
- then you don't know anything about natural childbirth. you are an ignorant and mean excuse for...
Talk : : November 14, 2009
Looking back on your adult life: What single life accomplishment makes you most proud? (Ok to list 2.) I am thinking of something that you had to work hard to get or achieve.
176 replies [ Reply | Watch | Options ]11.14.09, 01:33 PM [ Flag ]Family - I am very proud of the fact that I have a wonderful and passionate marriage of 30 years and had three children two of whom I raised to be fine adults the 3rd is only 8 :)
[ Reply | Options ]11.14.09, 01:38 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]^^and #2 I am also happy that I went to Wharton when it had very few women students and went on to work for 25 years as an independent and successful woman.
[ Reply | Options ]11.14.09, 01:39 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
The work I did getting political asylum for refugees and reuniting them with their families.
[ Reply | Options ]11.14.09, 01:39 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]I didn't marry a loser/jerk. First woman in my maternal line to be able to say that in four generations.
[ Reply | Options ]11.14.09, 01:40 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]wow. Well I'm glad for you. Were the others really all that bad though?
[ Reply | Options ]11.14.09, 01:45 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]Yep.
[ Reply | Options ]11.14.09, 01:50 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]well then let's dilute that gene pool!
[ Reply | Options ]11.14.09, 01:54 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]Well, I figure my girls are ahead of the game having an involved dad who actually supports them.
[ Reply | Options ]11.14.09, 02:17 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
1. natural childbirth 2. getting a PhD
[ Reply | Options ]11.14.09, 01:55 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]natural childbirth? seriously?
[ Reply | Options ]11.14.09, 02:19 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]we c section people are just lowly moms in comparison - oh does my labor count because my epi didn't work?
[ Reply | Options ]11.14.09, 02:40 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]Np: dude, relax. How could someone else's pride in THIER own accomplishment be a diss to you? OR said nothing about thinking you were anything, your own lack of self esteem created those thoughts. If you are not proud of going through your birth experience, that is on you. It's like saying I'm proud of running a marathon, it doesn't mean your 5k is something I find less impressive.
[ Reply | Options ]11.14.09, 02:48 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]except that the comparison between a 5k and a marathon and natural childbirth and one with an epidural is completely specious.
[ Reply | Options ]11.14.09, 04:55 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]second that
[ Reply | Options ]11.14.09, 06:31 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
np: you are being jerks. the question is what makes HER proud, not what would make you proud. it certainly wasn't something i felt like i could do, so props to her!
[ Reply | Options ]11.14.09, 02:48 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]it's like saying you're proud of squeezing off a particularly long turd. what's the accomplishement here?
[ Reply | Options ]11.14.09, 04:56 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]OR: you're comparing natural childbirth to "squeezing out a particularly long turd"? I hope you're a teenage boy.
[ Reply | Options ]11.15.09, 05:13 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]there's really no difference between going through natural childbirth and having a tooth extracted without anesthesia. and why would anyone be proud of the latter?
[ Reply | Options ]11.15.09, 06:40 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]There is a huge difference. And if you can't see that on your own, I doubt you and I could have a meaningful dialogue on the topic.
[ Reply | Options ]11.15.09, 07:11 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]in both cases you're anesthetizing pain. no difference imo, and i have no interest in your "meaningful" dialogue.
[ Reply | Options ]11.15.09, 07:16 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]What on earth could you possibly have invested in convincing me that something I take pride in is not "pride-worthy" in your opinion? Just seems so sad and ill-spirited. Take your negativity somewhere else...please!
[ Reply | Options ]11.15.09, 07:19 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]i'm not trying to convince you of anything. i have an opinion, you have yours. we both have a right to express them on ub.
[ Reply | Options ]11.15.09, 07:37 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]This isn't about difference of opinion. The difference is I can't imagine trying to convince someone that their proudest accomplishment isn't worth the pride. You seem so full of hate and hostility.
[ Reply | Options ]11.15.09, 07:41 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]NP: I agree, you sound full of hate and hostility.
[ Reply | Options ]11.15.09, 02:43 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
There is no way this OR has ever had a child, medicated, unmedicated, csection. If you compare a pulled tooth to child birth you have not given birth. Stop sparring with this freak who somehow gets off on this.
[ Reply | Options ]11.15.09, 12:23 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]but would you brag about having open-heart surgery without anesthesia? the point isn't the amount of pain involved, the point is why brag about something so pointless?
[ Reply | Options ]11.15.09, 01:19 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]Look, having a baby and having a tooth pulled are two different things. And, you must not know anyone who has had heart surgery because they all love to show off their zippers. But I am sure you would say that because they ate red meat and predisposed genetically to heart disease they have no right to be happy to have survived right? I mean, by your reasoning, breast cancer survivors can't be proud either, I mean that is something that happened to them, right? No reason to be proud, having your boobs cut off is akin to popping a big zit. OR you don't seem to have responded to anything you are proud of in any of these weird rants, what's wrong, scared?
[ Reply | Options ]11.15.09, 01:31 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]my dh had heart surgery, actually. and being happy to have survived is not the same thing as being proud to have done it without anesthesia. which he didn't.
[ Reply | Options ]11.15.09, 01:40 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]np. by that logic, i should be just as proud of my medicated birth. i mean, i survived same as you, right?
[ Reply | Options ]11.15.09, 01:43 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]You've got to be kidding me. You are a riot, really. I know you have not given birth to a baby, but if you ever do, remember this moment and consider why someone might be proud of having gone through it with or without drugs. And when someone on an anon board asks you to state what makes you proud and you do, you should not be attacked for being a braggart. Now, OR, what is it that you are proud if againg?
[ Reply | Options ]11.15.09, 01:52 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]Yes, you should. You absolutely should be and I said as much, you are just to busy being angry to realize that being proud of one thing does mean a person begrudges you the pride in your own accomplishments. Jesus Christ, I am allergic to lidocain and have to have all my dental work done unmedicated and it f'ing blows, and I am damn proud of getting through it, or doesn't think I should be though.
[ Reply | Options ]11.15.09, 01:58 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]i have had tons of dental work and have never had novacaine or lidocaine. i'm not sure how that qualifies me as a hero.
[ Reply | Options ]11.15.09, 02:23 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]What are you talking about? No one is calling themselves Heros, not me, not any of the natural birth people, not even the lady who worked with refugees. You have a real complex about something and you really need to step back and think about this for a while. Pride means your a hero? What's your next post gonna be about? Eating nuts means you're a squirel? Also, novacain is no longer used, not for decades, just an FYI.
[ Reply | Options ]11.15.09, 02:30 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]my point was i have NEVER used local anesthesia, even as a dc. and i assume it's fine by you if some of us roll our eyes at you for being "damn proud" of getting a tooth filled without lidocaine whether you call yourself a hero or not. i mean, seriously: "damn proud" should refer to soldiers fighting in iraq!
[ Reply | Options ]11.15.09, 02:35 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]Like I said, you have a serious complex, you really need a reality check.
[ Reply | Options ]11.15.09, 02:39 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]i'd say you do. but we'll agree to disagree.
[ Reply | Options ]11.15.09, 02:40 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]WTF are you talking about? Soldiers in Iraq? My eyes are rolling for sure.
[ Reply | Options ]11.15.09, 02:42 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]so get laughing gas - you don't want to so you would rather suffer
[ Reply | Options ]11.15.09, 02:42 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]yes. i think the term should be reserved for people who actually merit it. not for someone who gets a tooth filled without anesthesia. which honestly sounds like a joke and i can't believe you're defending it.
[ Reply | Options ]11.15.09, 02:44 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]OR, I am still waiting for you to post your great accomplishments. I can now assume that they are better and more pride producing than serving ones country since that seems to be the only thing short of whatever you are so great at that deserves props. So, what is it?
[ Reply | Options ]11.15.09, 02:46 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]You can't merit pride, idiot, pride is self regulated. You can be proud of what you want in another person but you cannot regulate pride. Nazi soldiers had pride, you don't have to like it, but it doesn't mean it didn't exist.
[ Reply | Options ]11.15.09, 02:50 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]Who is the laughing gas thing for? Because my browser gets weird and I can't follow these posts. If it's for me, I can't, I have heart murmur, I can use carbocaine but it doesn't actually do anythig so I end up having about 10 shots in my gums that don't even stop the pain.
[ Reply | Options ]11.15.09, 02:55 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]hey, you're the one whose chest puffs out when she gets a sticker from the dentist.
[ Reply | Options ]11.15.09, 04:19 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]ummmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm. uh-kay.
[ Reply | Options ]11.15.09, 04:20 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]i personally think the "i had my tooth filled, where's my medal" is worse than a nazi. but then once a thread devolves to nazi slurs, it's toast. see goldwin's law.
[ Reply | Options ]11.15.09, 04:22 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
ITA! I TRIED natural and ended up screaming for the drugs once the pitocin kicked in. PROPS mama!!
[ Reply | Options ]11.14.09, 10:25 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]Me too! I'm impressed!
[ Reply | Options ]11.15.09, 02:44 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
Um the question was, what accomplishment makes YOU most proud. Obviously you aren't too proud of your c-section so pick something else to brag about.
[ Reply | Options ]11.15.09, 05:53 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]clap clap clap
[ Reply | Options ]11.15.09, 07:22 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]Honestly wish I had a planned C - would have been much better. I am certainly not embarrassed or not proud that I needed a c to get my baby out healthy and not die in the process. I really don't care how a baby comes out as long as it's healthy. Actually I am not a bragger -unlike others apparently
[ Reply | Options ]11.15.09, 09:27 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]good for you and glad your db is doing well. and ita that it's a ridiculous thing to brag about.
[ Reply | Options ]11.15.09, 01:26 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]NO ONE IS BRAGGING! People are responding honestly about their proudest accomplishment. That you think their pride has ANYTHING to do with you or your choices is you taking the seriously CRAZY train!
[ Reply | Options ]11.15.09, 07:22 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
i'm proud of my baby, a$$wipe. the way he arrived is completely beside the point.
[ Reply | Options ]11.15.09, 01:21 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]That good, your proud of your baby. Now let others have their pride too.
[ Reply | Options ]11.16.09, 11:07 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]wtf, you illiterate tool? you just said, "you obviously aren't proud of your c-section." bite me, you little tw&t.
[ Reply | Options ]11.18.09, 03:57 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
OR: Yes, I was and am serious. And disgusted by all these nasty responses and thankful for the kind ones. People are crazy. Natural childbirth was incredibly hard, I had to prepare a lot, mentally and physically. No one can take that accomplishment away from me, not even bitter moms on UB. And the "c Section" poster - you are crazy and defensive that you think my pride says anything about your delivery method. Personalize much? The whole world isn't about you!!
[ Reply | Options ]11.15.09, 05:12 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]
Np: I am proud of having natural child birth too and also for nursing my children gor a year+ each. They are my greatest accomplishment to date. I hope to have real career success, but nothing will ever make me more proud than my girls.
[ Reply | Options ]11.14.09, 02:42 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]this is so sad to me.
[ Reply | Options ]11.14.09, 02:43 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]np: why is that so sad? those are real achievements! i didn't do either of those things, and ideally i would have liked to.
[ Reply | Options ]11.14.09, 02:49 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]i hope it doesn't say on my tombstone, "i nursed db for 13 months"
[ Reply | Options ]11.14.09, 02:50 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]it doesn't have to! this lady is just saying that it was something SHE was proud of! to each her own.
[ Reply | Options ]11.14.09, 02:52 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]I hope it doesn't say on my tombstone that I spent my life investing other peoples money and saw my children 12 hours a week. That's me, what ever your thing is is your thing. Whatever you say, it won't make me feel bad about being proud of these things. I know you are saying these things because you want to get a rise out of me, but I know who I am and I know I did what I wanted when I wanted to.
[ Reply | Options ]11.14.09, 02:55 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]good for you, posts like this always attract jerks who hate their own lives for whatever reason. ignore!
[ Reply | Options ]11.14.09, 02:57 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]wow, miss defensive! the ib-bashing is really off the point here. i personally think there are more important things you can do for your child than bf'ing. are you really saying of all the lessons you could teach them, the values you could instill in them, boob juice is it?
[ Reply | Options ]11.14.09, 02:57 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]NP: I think you are the one who sounds defensive. I don't see where this poster said breastfeeding is the most important gift a parent can give a child. She merely said that she was proud that she breastfed for over a year. Was it nice to bash IBs? No. But neither is you picking on her for breastfeeding. It makes YOU sound defensive!
[ Reply | Options ]11.14.09, 02:59 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]the question was what SINGLE accomplishment in your life makes you most proud. i find it hard to believe this would be it, that's all.
[ Reply | Options ]11.14.09, 03:00 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]find it hard to believe anyone is as dumb as you, does that mean it's right?
[ Reply | Options ]11.14.09, 03:06 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]is this your idea of a witty riposte?
[ Reply | Options ]11.14.09, 03:07 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]Oh, touché, op, you got me, I will crawl back into my hole now and lament ever trying to go up against the likes of your mighty wit. I am ashamed for even considering myself worthy of you, why, tour moniker should real be UBNC (that urban baby's Noel coward.) dear me, my self worth my never recover.
[ Reply | Options ]11.14.09, 03:16 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]np: doubt it was OP who said that. i think all sorts of people think you sound like a jerk!
[ Reply | Options ]11.14.09, 03:18 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]i'm sorry, but i know you are but what am i doesn't really count as a comeback around here.
[ Reply | Options ]11.14.09, 04:57 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]I am OP and have not posted anything since the original question. Was out and just got back and this sure went in an unexpected direction. Phew.
[ Reply | Options ]11.14.09, 05:45 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
Bf-ing is REALLY hard for some women. Some women (like myself) tried EVERYTHING to keep bf-ing, but at the end of the day, baby screamed when I BF and didnt when she drank formula. Doc suggested full formula, tried it for a few days, she was like a completely diff baby. went back to bf-ing and she was back to herself and screaming after every meal. was HORRIBLE. I would feel DANG PROUD if I could have done it for that long!
[ Reply | Options ]11.14.09, 10:28 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
Sorry, still not gonna get me.
[ Reply | Options ]11.14.09, 03:00 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]NP. ITA. You are the one sounding defensive. What do you care? She is not bashing you for choosing not to bf.
[ Reply | Options ]11.15.09, 09:05 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]
Why? This is my choice, some people want nothing more than to be Ibankers, I would die if that was my life. My career is fullfilling, but my girls are the best thing that ever happened to me.
[ Reply | Options ]11.14.09, 02:50 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]they happened to you. how is that an accomplishment? how is bf'ing for a certain, random amount of time going to make any difference at all in dd's lives or in yours?
[ Reply | Options ]11.14.09, 02:54 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]np: it is really sad that somebody started this post as a way for people to shout out their most proud accomplishments, and you feel the need to tear them down. don't agree that their accomplishments are so great? then move on. post your own. but why on earth would you feel the need to troll on this post? jeez.
[ Reply | Options ]11.14.09, 02:56 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]I'm the or he is picking on, it is just another bored weirdo trying to make us question our selves, ignore it, I for one could never be hurt by such a person.
[ Reply | Options ]11.14.09, 02:59 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
Listen, sir, I don't care what you think. I know what you're doing and it won't work. Sorry.
[ Reply | Options ]11.14.09, 02:56 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]take it to babycenter.
[ Reply | Options ]11.14.09, 02:59 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]Ouch, now that hurts. Grow up, no one is buying you lame game. Why don't you post about being a Glenn Beck fan on the huff post instead. It is sp obvious you are a plant, why else would you be on the ny school board with this sh*t?
[ Reply | Options ]11.14.09, 03:04 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]aw, poor thin-skinned mom who counted the days she bf'd and marked each with a gold star on a holly hobby calendar can't take the heat.
[ Reply | Options ]11.14.09, 03:05 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]Do you know there is more than one person posting here? And do you understand sarcasm? Are you Hubs poster? God, you're a terrible writer.
[ Reply | Options ]11.14.09, 03:09 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]she's great imo. witheringly funny!
[ Reply | Options ]11.14.09, 04:54 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]np: i wouldn't say withering or funny. kind of sad. like the kid nobody likes in high school who sits alone at lunch and TRIES to think of witheringly funny insults... but the bitterness just gets in the way.
[ Reply | Options ]11.14.09, 05:34 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
Great. What does that have to do with the method of their birth or the duration of bf?
[ Reply | Options ]11.14.09, 02:59 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]exactly
[ Reply | Options ]11.14.09, 03:01 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
I like you and you have lucky children.
[ Reply | Options ]11.15.09, 10:00 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
1. There was an article in the NYT about my dissertation project. 2. I got to marry the love of my life! How many people can say that? I hope a lot, but I still feel lucky about it every day!
[ Reply | Options ]11.14.09, 01:56 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]Very cool. What was the subject of your disseration?
[ Reply | Options ]11.17.09, 07:00 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
Being a great teacher (don't think I am now, but still proud of the many years I was great), proud of dd, but don't think it was my accomplishment, proud of choosing a fabulous partner
[ Reply | Options ]11.14.09, 02:11 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]Have raised 4 good citizens of the world. They are nice people.
[ Reply | Options ]11.14.09, 02:21 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]:-). Since this is posting on ny school board, care to share where they went to grade school?
[ Reply | Options ]11.14.09, 02:39 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
Volunteer teaching in Tanzania Africa and getting 2 of my students into college (there are only 2). First time for the school.
[ Reply | Options ]11.14.09, 04:04 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]AWESOME FOR YOU!
[ Reply | Options ]11.15.09, 08:57 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]
Paid for my own undergrad and graduate degrees without having to compromise my morals.
[ Reply | Options ]11.14.09, 04:08 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]EBFing twins for a year (yeah YOU try it) and suffering through HBS.
[ Reply | Options ]11.14.09, 04:23 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]What is HBS?
[ Reply | Options ]11.14.09, 04:25 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]housewife buttgrowth syndrome.
[ Reply | Options ]11.14.09, 05:02 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]HBS= Harvard Business School
[ Reply | Options ]11.14.09, 05:24 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
so you were a martyr
[ Reply | Options ]11.15.09, 04:36 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]ita. these so-called "accomplishments" are really examples of i-deserve-a-medal-for-suffering that no one but op will ever remember or remark on. going to business school is not an accomplishment. becoming ceo of a fortune 500 company upon graduation is. bf'ing twins is not an accomplishment. raising them to be great dcs is.
[ Reply | Options ]11.15.09, 06:00 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]how depressing you think that a personal accomplishment is limited only to something that others "remember or remark on" - we just learned a lot about you and your sad life.
[ Reply | Options ]11.15.09, 07:24 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]NP. I think your big accomplishment in life is trampling on others. Of cours HBS and bf'ing twins are HUGE accomplishments that you are criticizing simply because you personally were not capable. Get over it. Be happy for your own accomplishments.
[ Reply | Options ]11.15.09, 09:09 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]NP. graduating from HBS is not accomplishment. Getting in is.
[ Reply | Options ]11.15.09, 12:28 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
hey you chose to bf a year - I know quite a few and quite a few that just did formula. No big deal. Do what you feel like doing. I certainly don't judge nor think differently on either mom's choice. Nobody cares but you
[ Reply | Options ]11.15.09, 06:05 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]np: this post has gone from happy and inspiring to depressing and hateful, and I'm pretty sure it's because of defensive anti-bf and anti-natural childbirth posters. Why all the hate, just let people enjoy their accomplishments! Good Lord, just let it go...
[ Reply | Options ]11.15.09, 07:21 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]I think these people think they are better than others because of these accomplishments. If not then good for them I have a feeling they judge others though who do not choose to do as they do. This board is made up of sanctimommies
[ Reply | Options ]11.15.09, 07:30 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]just because you think it, doesn't make it so. And when people are responding about what THEY believe are their personal accomplishments, how can you possibly disagree with that? It's like disagreeing with someone's favorite food. You sound fairly joyless. You are projecting judgment onto them because you feel judged in your life. Get some therapy, please.
[ Reply | Options ]11.15.09, 07:39 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]of course - the pat answer to everything on this board= get therapy. Must be a bunch of therapists on here vying for business:)
[ Reply | Options ]11.15.09, 07:44 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]come on. if someone posted their favorite food was sawdust, there would be replies of, "really? sawdust? have you ever tried pate?" people are allowed to express disbelief over answers they find to be rather incredible and without inviting cries for therapy. agree with above poster. there are lots of bf'ing/natural childbirth sanctimommies on this thread.
[ Reply | Options ]11.15.09, 07:55 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]and lots of bitter bettys.
[ Reply | Options ]11.15.09, 08:09 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]
I love that I said that I was proud of BFing twins for a year and making through business school (it was really a struggle for me) and I'm a sanctimommy. I personally could care less if you go to grad school or breastfeed your child. Both things were hard for me so I'm proud of them. I also have a job many would be impressed by but I didn't mention this because getting there was way easier (for me) than the BFing and the school. In other words, where the hell was there any judgment in my post???????
[ Reply | Options ]11.15.09, 01:46 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]there you go - an admitted sanctimommy - enough said - sanctis are always judgmental.
[ Reply | Options ]11.15.09, 02:50 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]np: wow, reading comprehension must not be your forte!
[ Reply | Options ]11.15.09, 04:41 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
There wasn't. You post was lovely and you should be proud of your accomplishments. Way to go. I think this post veered off track with one very angry and hostile person. Ignore. (I am the natural childbirth/PhD poster)
[ Reply | Options ]11.15.09, 07:15 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]NP: I suspect it was one jerk too.
[ Reply | Options ]11.15.09, 08:48 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
EBF'ing twins for a year is amazing. Until anyone walks in your shoes, they should not minimize this accomplishment. Good for you on both counts!
[ Reply | Options ]11.15.09, 09:16 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]Thank you! I didn't even say that these two thing were so great. I understand that I didn't save the world or anything. The question was what accomplishments have made me proud. I have to laugh that somehow there is a "wrong" answer to this. In fact, many wrong answers!
[ Reply | Options ]11.15.09, 04:42 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
I know BF is breast feeding. What's the E for?
[ Reply | Options ]11.17.09, 07:01 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]exclusively
[ Reply | Options ]11.17.09, 07:32 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]oh, thanks for clarifying.
[ Reply | Options ]11.18.09, 03:26 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
1.)Being self-supporting from the day I graduated college, with many professional accomplishments and also enormous work ethic. 2.)Being a single mom (wish I had met right man) of incredible DC - taking some credit for raising them so that I am now more proud of them then I could have ever imagined or dreamed of. Nothing will ever top the pride and love I feel for them ... and that makes me proud that I had some part in their being/becoming such great citizens of the world.
[ Reply | Options ]11.14.09, 05:29 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]Nice. Good for you!
[ Reply | Options ]11.15.09, 10:02 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]Thank you for saying that. Really appreciate it,
[ Reply | Options ]11.17.09, 06:58 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
My career.
[ Reply | Options ]11.14.09, 06:51 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]what is your career?
[ Reply | Options ]11.18.09, 03:25 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
1. PhD. 2. Ran a marathon.
[ Reply | Options ]11.14.09, 07:16 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]Lots to be proud of here!
[ Reply | Options ]11.15.09, 03:45 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
I worked and live abroad with my family for a year on less than 18,000 euro.
[ Reply | Options ]11.14.09, 07:17 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]what country?
[ Reply | Options ]11.14.09, 07:45 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]Wow, where? I would love to do this.
[ Reply | Options ]11.15.09, 06:46 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]
I stopped drinking all together after drinking at least a bottle a night for five years.
[ Reply | Options ]11.14.09, 07:18 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]wow. congrats.
[ Reply | Options ]11.14.09, 07:45 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
My books hit the New York Times bestseller list. Didn't realize how much it would mean to me until it happened.
[ Reply | Options ]11.15.09, 06:21 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]What subject area
[ Reply | Options ]11.15.09, 07:14 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]Fiction
[ Reply | Options ]11.15.09, 07:36 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]
were you a writer before your book?
[ Reply | Options ]11.15.09, 08:57 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]Yes, but not fiction. Just started writing fiction to see if I could do it - didn't anticipate (or think much about) the level of success and maybe because of that, found it even more surprisingly rewarding.
[ Reply | Options ]11.15.09, 12:00 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
That is truly amazing! It's a goal of mine. Congratulations!
[ Reply | Options ]11.15.09, 01:09 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]Thanks! Good luck to you! It CAN happen. :)
[ Reply | Options ]11.15.09, 01:21 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
Most people would say that winning numerous clio awards is pretty cool. but that doesn't compare to having 2 beautiful children who are happy and thriving.
[ Reply | Options ]11.15.09, 07:13 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]Clio awards are VERY cool! I'm sure your dc are, too. Congrats!
[ Reply | Options ]11.15.09, 08:03 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]
all these BF'ing/raising kids-related posts are making me think of that old Chris Rock bit about "taking credit for sh#t you're supposed to do." hilarious.
[ Reply | Options ]11.15.09, 07:39 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]and all these negative posts in response to my 1. natural childbirth 2. PhD post are making me think that people have conflicted feelings about either 1. their most prideful accomplishments, or 2. their method of childbirth.
[ Reply | Options ]11.15.09, 07:44 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]are you kidding me? Not in a million years would I have considered natural childbirth -no conflicts there - I think most agree. Bring on the drugs
[ Reply | Options ]11.15.09, 09:20 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]agree, bring on the drugs, but that doesn't make me think above poster accomplished something by refusing them.
[ Reply | Options ]11.15.09, 01:31 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]then you don't know anything about natural childbirth. you are an ignorant and mean excuse for a person.
[ Reply | Options ]11.15.09, 07:24 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]no, i do. and no, i don't. different strokes for different folks. it's a choice, not an accomplishment and i am not ignorant nor a mean excuse for person for pointing that out. why the hate?
[ Reply | Options ]11.18.09, 03:59 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
none to speak of
[ Reply | Options ]11.15.09, 07:55 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]Maybe I know what you mean? I have a decent self-image, yet I can't answer without replacing "proud" with happy. I've worked hard to accomplish things that have brought happiness.
[ Reply | Options ]11.15.09, 08:05 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]ITA. I have a positive self image and have accomplished some thing, but haven't yet achieved my ultimate career goal. FWIW, I think the clios, the Bestsellers List, Natural childbirth, and twin bfing moms all rock. Those are all accomplishments worth being proud of and as I have done none of them, I can't imagine that anyone would knock any of them -- or any of things people here have listed. Kudos to all!
[ Reply | Options ]11.15.09, 01:11 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]THANKS!!
[ Reply | Options ]11.15.09, 07:23 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]Self image is spin; forget about the losses, exaggerate the wins. So, you can't have decent or positive self-image and be unable to name an accomplishment of which you are proud. Put yourself in job interview mode or indignant mode (as if responding to someone having disrespected you), and tell us what you come up with.
[ Reply | Options ]11.15.09, 07:39 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]Okay,I'm the first self image poster.I've worked on international,award winning advertising campaigns,had my work in shows at the Met,Whitney,and other museums. I've collaborated with great masters of photography,music,film and many genres of art and have achieved financial success and professional recognition and respect.I didn't take OP to be a cv request.
[ Reply | Options ]11.15.09, 08:51 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]*those are not the hallmarks of personal pride. I AM happy that the above have allowed me to make contributions to worthy causes and organizations and to use my reputation and recognition to positive effect.
[ Reply | Options ]11.15.09, 08:54 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
really nothing that you worked for, accomplished and now take pride in. Does that mean you didn't try? Or you tried and failed? Or what? It's just hard to believe the "nothing to speak of" answer. What did you consider putting here and rejected?
[ Reply | Options ]11.17.09, 07:04 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
A wonderful marriage of 40 years, successful children, beautiful grandchildren, and a career I love!
[ Reply | Options ]11.15.09, 08:05 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]Finally being content with being an alternate to the Olympic Games. Took me awhile.
[ Reply | Options ]11.15.09, 08:58 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]that's so cool! i bet you were a swimmer. or a marathon runner. (i can't quite picture you as a shot putter, but that's cool too.)
[ Reply | Options ]11.15.09, 04:44 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
my children!
[ Reply | Options ]11.15.09, 09:17 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]1)always continued to practice medicine (even very PT)when my dc were little 2)survived dh extensive biz travels with 3 very young dc and dealt with all issues alone while he was gone; this gave me a tremendous amount of confidence as a parent.
[ Reply | Options ]11.15.09, 10:29 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]become a millionare just for my work.
[ Reply | Options ]11.15.09, 01:19 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]type of work?
[ Reply | Options ]11.15.09, 03:35 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
Becoming a Rhodes Scholar, becoming a partner in my firm and helping disadvantaged children.
[ Reply | Options ]11.15.09, 04:35 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]aww! Rhodes, what I would wish for but would never get (o.k. with that, though!) Congrats to you and so glad you're using your gifts so wisely.
[ Reply | Options ]11.15.09, 06:12 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]this is wonderful that you are using your talents to help kids who have strikes against them. but then, it's this quality that probably contributed to your being a Rhodes Scholar.
[ Reply | Options ]11.15.09, 09:59 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
Undoubtedly, quitting smoking after 15 years at 2 packs a day...so many other wonderful things followed as a result- including marrying a great guy (who never would have considered being with a smoker in the first place) and having a delicious little boy. Quitting also taught me about my capacity to keep my eyes on the prize during the trying moments of my life
[ Reply | Options ]11.15.09, 10:50 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]Becoming a published author, professional accomplishments, having fun in my single days and then settling down finally (it wasn't easy) to get married and have a baby.
[ Reply | Options ]11.16.09, 03:00 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]I'm going to write a book when I retire. And that will be my biggest achievement.
[ Reply | Options ]11.16.09, 10:56 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]everyone and their mother!
[ Reply | Options ]11.16.09, 11:19 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]
Stopping smoking. Tried and quit 4 times - for several years at a strectch. Fourth time was 20+ years ago and never smoked since then. It was a HUGE effort and a huge accomplishment for me.
[ Reply | Options ]11.17.09, 07:06 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]Staying true to my values and managing to not be swayed by what other people think of me.
[ Reply | Options ]11.17.09, 07:07 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]grammar correction: managing not to be swayed ...
[ Reply | Options ]11.17.09, 07:09 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
Loving and protecting my mentally and physically challenged foster brother as if were blood. Various career changes that took a lot of balls to pull off.
[ Reply | Options ]11.17.09, 07:48 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
[+] Can someone please explain the whole point of the home birth movement? Met an evangel... 56 replies
- ITA. They are nuts. I am all into being natural and green and avoiding medication and eating organically and...the data on complications occurring as a result of natural births involving the very healthiest in ideal scenarios. Of...ignorant thing I've ever heard. The pain of childbirth actually serves many purposes, biochemically and physiologically....
- the purpose of pain, by Dr. Lothian, a professor, childbirth educator and board member of Lamaze Intl. Her...
Talk : : October 31, 2009
Can someone please explain the whole point of the home birth movement? Met an evangelistic homebirther the other night--it just seems crazy to me. Even if the risk of complication is low, the possibility of a bad outcome--the baby dying!--is so unbearable, I just don't understand why anyone would risk it?
56 replies [ Reply | Watch | Options ]10.31.09, 12:18 PM [ Flag ]ITA. They are nuts. I am all into being natural and green and avoiding medication and eating organically and trying to have a vaginal birth... you name it. But when it comes to the healthy birth of my child, I would never dream of doing it anywhere but in a hospital.
[ Reply | Options ]10.31.09, 12:23 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]I'm no home birth advocate (had both dcs with epidurals in hospitals) but I'm almost positive that no studies have shown that a db is more likely to die in a homebirth situation than in a hospital, IF you are doing it with an experienced person who knows how to recognize complications. Of course, there is always some anecdote where some woman had a problem and a tragic ending; however, there are similar anecdotes involving a woman who went to a hospital to give birth and had some tragic outcome due to an error on the hospital's part. I believe both are equally rare and there are some advantages to having a homebirth. For me, those wouldn't outweigh the negatives, but I can understand why some women may choose this.
[ Reply | Options ]10.31.09, 01:36 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]A home birth not only deprives you of medical professionals but also of medical equipment and medications. So dangerous.
[ Reply | Options ]10.31.09, 03:51 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]That is completely untrue. Homebirth midwives are trained medical professionals and they bring with them things like oxygen, fetal monitors, IVs, ect...They also work with women who are low risk and are trained to recognize if there are any problems and transfer the patient to the hospital if necessary. As a matter of fact, the outcomes for the mother, and the baby are BETTER>
[ Reply | Options ]10.31.09, 04:07 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]why risk needing to be transferred to the hospital when you could already be there?
[ Reply | Options ]10.31.09, 08:38 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]see. I agree and because there are no more birthing centers in NYC if I was going to have another child I'd really consider it. Things go much better for me with midwives etc. Hospitals and their procedures are not really good for many mothers or babies in normal births. I thought the birthing center was the best of both worlds but unfortunately things are driven by insurance companies fear of malpractice lawsuits.
[ Reply | Options ]11.01.09, 07:05 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]Not true, there is excellent one at Roosevelt.
[ Reply | Options ]11.01.09, 08:10 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
i would never do homebirth. but my husband is an ob, and i think many who choose homebirth are reacting against the culture of the labor/delivery floors in hospitals. i think it is reasonable to be concerned that the wellbeing of you and your baby doesn't come first in the hospital, and that issues such as scheduling and protection against malpractice suits are what shape most births. most women don't understand that the interventions they receive aren't medically necessary and just speed things along. but those who do may feel justifiably upset. at home, you come first, and i think that is what is appealing.
[ Reply | Options ]10.31.09, 01:40 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]^^also, babies also die in the hospital, and for low-risk births done in capable hands, the rate of complications is actually sometimes lower for homebirths (most of these studies have been done in scandinavian countries, though). hospitals are hotbeds of infection in the U.S., and there are no incentives currently in place to fix this :(
[ Reply | Options ]10.31.09, 01:41 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]The culture that you are referring to has caused the c-section rate to be close to 40% in some hospitals. No way, does that help the well being of the mother or the baby. Healthy mom, healthy baby, thats what everyone wants.
[ Reply | Options ]10.31.09, 04:41 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]as i said, i think it is reasonable to be concerned about this--and this is one of the things that is driving the movement! i would advise every pregnant woman to find out the c-section rate of her hospital and provider. many women don't understand just how unnecessary many of these c-sections are.
[ Reply | Options ]11.01.09, 03:46 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
I have seen true stories where the Douala's also try to let the mother die so she can sell the baby. With everything that can go wrong, it's just a bad idea. I tore so bad I needed A LOT of stitches and probably would have bled to death if I hadn't been at the hospital.
[ Reply | Options ]10.31.09, 02:35 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]i have seen this true story about bat boy. he hides in the rafters of barns and swoops out at night to terrorize country folk.
[ Reply | Options ]10.31.09, 04:10 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]hey, I saw him tonight, walking a chupacabra on a leash.
[ Reply | Options ]10.31.09, 04:43 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
Some may argue that it was the practices in the hospital that caused you to tear, if you look at homebirth statistics the instances of 2nd degree or higher tearing are very, very low. Midwives also have suture equipment with them so they can give you stitches, just the same. Doulas are not midwives.
[ Reply | Options ]10.31.09, 04:13 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
I had a hospital birth and wouldn't birth at home, it's just not my thing -- but I can actually understand the appeal of a home birth. You get to labor at your own pace, in whatever position you want, you get to labor with a midwife or doula who cares about you and the baby, you don't have to deal with strangers who are pushing drugs on you because your labor is "taking too long", you don't have to stay in some uncomfortable hospital room for two days instead of being home with dh, etc. I wouldn't do it, because of safety reasons, but frankly if I had a guarantee that the labor would go well I probably would...
[ Reply | Options ]10.31.09, 03:19 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]I am s physician and some of the most memorable cases I ever saw in med school are related to births. The first was of a brain dead baby who mom was head of a homebirth society and herself a trained midwife. It was her fourth homebirth and went extremely well until the cord came out before the baby (umbilical prolapse - incredibly rare). She was with an experienced midwife who called 911 and they got her to the hospital within 20 minutes (extremely fast) but baby did not survive. A second case I remember was of a woman who was 7.5 months pregnant with a known low lying placenta. She had been eating dinner in a restaurant when she went to the restroom with a belly cramp and then began to hemorrhage. The OB delivered her child by emergency section 3.5 minutes after she was wheeled through the door of our hospital and both mom and baby lived and thrived (despite mom needing major blood transfusions afterwards).
[ Reply | Options ]10.31.09, 03:35 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]So sad. I would not dream of risking a home birth.
[ Reply | Options ]10.31.09, 03:54 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]Yes prolapse cords are very rare, I don't know how your second case would qualify as a home birth. The problem is that hospitals in this country use way, way too many interventions which lead to complications, which lead to surgical births. Babies die in hospitals, so do moms. Pointing out one rare case where there was a problem with a homebirth to discredit homebirths is irresponsible.
[ Reply | Options ]10.31.09, 04:22 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]The second case was an example where medical care can prevent an otherwise potentially disastrous outcome. I agree that anecdotes don't discredit homebirth but I know I'll never forget the sight of that pink and so-healthy appearing brain dead baby (and the unfathomable grief of her parents and family)
[ Reply | Options ]10.31.09, 05:54 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]I am sure not, but don't forget that midwives are medically trained practitioners, with medical degrees, not enthusiastic hobbiest.
[ Reply | Options ]11.01.09, 05:37 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]
Actually, my DH is an MD who works with kids...home birth tragedies are not so rare. In addition, I'd like to point out that in the countries where there are the fewest "interventions" and "surgical births", the maternal death rate is as high as 1 in 10. So many moms in the US decry the high C-Section rate without regarding the fact that this rate reflects the elimination of greater risk. If there is the slightest chance of harm to the mother or baby through natural birth, it is proactively dealt with through surgery. In light of this, it is impossible to truly calculate comparative complication rates, because you have no control population of women who might have needed a C-Section but didn't get one, as it would be unethical to risk harm to them. So all you have are the data on complications occurring as a result of natural births involving the very healthiest in ideal scenarios. Of course this population, who never had or threatened to have, any issues will fare better post-op than a woman given a C-Section for any reason. The problem is that most American women do not belong to this ideal group who promise to sail through the birth process safely and easily. Looking at data from more progressive nations where rates are lower without a corresponding rise in mortality does not address this situation: the women in France and the Scandinavian countries have much better health care and a lower obesity rate(FYI..birth complications in the US have risen in the US in direct relationship with the obesity rate) For docs faced with even a 30% chance of injury to the mom or baby, and the absolute responsibility not to let such occur, the surgical route is a good option.
[ Reply | Options ]11.01.09, 06:23 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]High C rates are a function of our incredibly high rates of malpractice. Which is totally logical . If I was a doctor I'd probably push it to. But be really clear the c-section rate is a product of convenience for the doctors not for the mothers/babies.
[ Reply | Options ]11.01.09, 10:29 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]Your post doesen't exactly address what I said. Malpractice is only one aspect. Regardless, the idea that, if malpractice is such an issue, that the majority of doctors are performing major surgeries solely as a "convenience" to themselves against the interest of patients is self-contradictory. I also don't understand where this mentality of mothers/babies vs. doctors comes from. In our health care system, it is the patients responsibility to choose the best practitioner to meet their needs (or at least one they can trust won't take them to the OR on a whim). You pick the right person to be on your team, not an adversary whose expertise you solicit and pay for but then struggle against.
[ Reply | Options ]11.01.09, 06:57 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]np: as my unborn child's heart rate dropped to half of what it should have been, every time I kiss him good night, I am grateful for my c-section. Nuff said.
[ Reply | Options ]11.01.09, 07:03 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
The WHO sets a target rate for C-sections, based on the frequency with which they are medically required. Guess what it is? 5-10%. Rates of over 15% appear to do more harm than good (they are, after all, major surgeries). In NYC hospitals, the rates often hover around 40%. Even after adjusting for maternal age and high-risk characteristics pre-birth, this is a WHOLE bunch of unnecessary C-sections. As poster above states, it is a function of the incredibly high malpractice rates and crowded L&D floors.
[ Reply | Options ]11.01.09, 03:50 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]The WHO target rate of 15 % is a stated ideal that cannot definitively pinpoint the "frequency with which <C-sections> are medically required." In order to determine that "rates over 15% do more harm than good", you'd need a controlled study. We don't have that,as far as I know. I also havent seen studies that can show that a "whole bunch of C-sections" are "unnecessary" after adjusting for maternal age and high-risk characteristics--what I've seen has indicated that C-sections are hard to evaluate because inextricably linked to these factors. Please share if you have info.
[ Reply | Options ]11.01.09, 07:44 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
I am not into it but I do not like the hospitals either. Too bad more birthing centers which are comfortable yet provide medical assistance when needed were not available.
[ Reply | Options ]10.31.09, 03:54 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]Why on earth would anyone want all that mess in their house? Come on people, L&D nurses and OBs are by and large, decent, nice people who love their jobs and their patients. They treat you nicely if you act nice too. I know, I've had 3 hospital births and loved my docs and nurses. thank God for modern medicine and competent people.
[ Reply | Options ]10.31.09, 04:13 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]If you read the responses carefully, you'd see that most of us also chose to birth at a hospital, but that doesn't mean that the choice to birth at home isn't valid under certain circumstances. No one here is trying to invalidate your choice to have a hospital birth, and we could quote anecdote after anecdote of some nightmarish hospital experience. So why so negative about someone else's choice that is no way being forced upon you.
[ Reply | Options ]10.31.09, 04:33 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
The US has a pretty bad infant mortality rating, we are about #29, and tied with Slovakia and Poland. Homebirth is not crazy and is practiced in conjunction with hospital births in countries who have the TOP ratings. Homebirth outcomes are often better for the baby and for the mother than hospital births. I think that some women get upset, myself included, is because they are making an educated decision to do what they think is best for them and their baby and people who have not bothered to educate themselves with the facts are constantly questioning their decisions without knowing the facts.
[ Reply | Options ]10.31.09, 04:37 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]A large part of the reason for the high mortality rate is that what in many countries is deemed in miscarriage in the US is operated upon and results in a live birth, that, sadly, frequently results in a death not too long after. Death rates for full term babies in the US is very low.
[ Reply | Options ]10.31.09, 06:04 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]np: we also have horrendous rates for prenatal care.
[ Reply | Options ]10.31.09, 08:59 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]We also have a pretty high maternal death rate as well.
[ Reply | Options ]11.01.09, 05:38 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]Both connected to premature babies and multiples. Not for full-term single pregnancies. Seriously, people, the US has many many maternity-related issues, starting with lack of proper maternity policies and ending with high c-section rates, but high mortality rates are not it for regular pregnancies.
[ Reply | Options ]11.01.09, 08:09 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
I can understand wanting to have a home birth. I am having my second and really planned to have a homebirth. Because of the complications of my first, which was in a hospital, I was advised by my midwife to birth in a hospital. Interestingly enough the my ob/gyn who delivered my 1st supported my homebirth decision. I was induced the 1st time and had a very medical birth, the epidural wasn't very effective, because of all the medical intervention I never felt the urge to push, but pushed simply because the nurses told me too. I probably started pushing too early. I pushed for 4 hours and tore my cervix. I lost mass amounts of blood and was rushed into the OR. I would like to avoid all of this by having a homebirth. Because they don't have an explanation for why my cervix tore the midwife thinks I should be in hospital in the event this happens again. I was very saddened and disappointed to hear this. I am praying and am hopeful that I won't have a medical birth this time. I plan to labor at home as long as possible. In most of the world people birth at home. The US has an incredibly high cesarean rate. Most are not medically needed, but performed to avoid lawsuits. There are many guidelines hospital follow, not for the health and safety of the baby and mother but for insurance companies.
[ Reply | Options ]10.31.09, 05:43 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]In "most of the world" where people birth at home, the maternal mortality rate is 1 in 10. For more on this statistic, check out the World Health Organization (WHO)website. Also, it is not true that most C-Sections are not medically necessary...they are performed when there is some indication of risk to the mother or baby. Since every birth is unique, it cannot be shown ahead of time exactly how things will play out. But once you refrain from a C-section when there is an indication of risk, you gamble with the heath of the mom and baby. Some docs(and moms) are fine with the gamble, others feel that even a slight risk is too much. And to say that surgery is performed in order to prevent lawsuits as though that is trivial is the most senseless thing I have heard; there is no potential for a lawsuit unless there is harm to the patient. Harm and lawsuits go together, so if a C-Section will avoid a lawsuit, that means it will also avoid material harm.
[ Reply | Options ]11.01.09, 06:45 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]your not comparing apples to apples. Homebirth midwives here in the US make sure that their patients get excellent prenatal care. If there are any problems, or risk, then they transfer their patients to hospitals. Countries like the UK, Holland and Germany use midwives for most births (in and out of hospitals) and OB's for the small percentage of high risk patients. Many of the interventions that are routine in hospitals cause further problems which then necessitate a need for a c-section. Yes, surgery is performed in order to prevent lawsuits, and it is performed for the convenience of the practitioner which is why most are performed during normal business hours.
[ Reply | Options ]11.01.09, 09:34 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]
While I may not want a homebirth (and I can't imagine giving birth in MY apartment), I completely understand why some people do. I really like the model they have in some other countries of maternity clinics/hospitals (essentially birth centers) where all they do is deliver babies, midwives and OBs together. All the benefits of modern medicine, without many of the downsides of a traditional hospital - no one is rushing you, no one in the facility is "sick" so women aren't treated so much like patients, etc.
[ Reply | Options ]10.31.09, 09:46 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]Unfortunately we don't have that option here. I am planning a home birth and yes it is scary, it scares me and I am not in any form a crunchy, hippy activist. I also know that my chances of having a vbac are very low in a hospital where I would automatically be made to wear a fetal monitor and have an iv and very high at home where I can move comfortably and freely and progress safely at my own pace. I was railroaded into having a c-section with #1 and I am surprised that more women, especially women in New York, aren't taking a stronger position about how birth is handled here.
[ Reply | Options ]11.01.09, 05:49 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]Honestly, home birth after C is absolutely crazy!! Have you spoken to several good doctors about this decision?! Not only could you lose your db, you are taking a risk of leaving your husband and first db motherless! WHY WOULD YOU DO THIS??
[ Reply | Options ]11.01.09, 09:36 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]cut the hysteria would you..........
[ Reply | Options ]11.01.09, 10:32 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]It's not hysteria. Read the medical research. It's irresponsible and inane.
[ Reply | Options ]11.01.09, 10:38 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]Where's the research you are talking about it, I have read and made my decision based on research done.
[ Reply | Options ]11.02.09, 06:19 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]
Where do they do this?
[ Reply | Options ]11.01.09, 03:57 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
There is no question that I had a totally uncomplicated pregnancy, every prenatal test was perfect, the delivery was completely uncomplicated, and DB had an extremely rare complication at birth that I can't get into without outing myself...but DB would be dead, no question if I had given birth at home. There is no question about it. So yes, I get upset when homebirthers talk to me about how great it is. I feel like they don't care that my baby would have died, because it is "so rare".
[ Reply | Options ]11.01.09, 05:42 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]They do care about your baby, don't think for a second that anyone doesn't. There is always risk involved, in any birth, most people who choose homebirth take that into consideration.
[ Reply | Options ]11.02.09, 11:35 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]
Read this. It's completely chilling! http://skepticalob.blogspot.com/2009/10/after-homebirth-death.html
[ Reply | Options ]11.01.09, 09:41 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]My friend had one of those home-births in the birthing pool (I think that's what it's called). It was a great thing to *watch*. I would support any friend wanting to do a home birth. But get my butt to a hospital fast. LOL. I think home birthing has made a come back because women do want to have more control of their birth, body, and baby. The only home birth part of the movement I oppose are the women who choose to give birth alone without DH or any help at all. That is incredibly stupid! Even if you go back to before the time of hospitals, women had help and support from the "elder" women in the area who helped with "turning the baby", preparing, teas and tinctures for pain relief, welcoming the new life into the world.
[ Reply | Options ]11.01.09, 10:13 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]ITA- hospital for me. But dh is from the Netherlands and his sister (who still lives there) had all three of her dc at home. It's done regularly over there. But, even if you don't consider the risks, just the MESS alone would send me to the nearest maternity ward. Ugh. And the PAIN. Ugh. As my OB said, having a baby is the only time where having pain is considered acceptable, but it shouldn't be.
[ Reply | Options ]11.01.09, 06:43 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]This is the most ignorant thing I've ever heard. The pain of childbirth actually serves many purposes, biochemically and physiologically.
[ Reply | Options ]11.01.09, 08:16 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]Okay, because I'm so ignorant, please tell me, what function does the pain of childbrith serve? Please provide references- my reference is my MD who certainly is not ignorant.
[ Reply | Options ]11.02.09, 09:04 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]I was actually suggesting that your MD is ignorant on this topic, not you. Here is a link to a great article about the purpose of pain, by Dr. Lothian, a professor, childbirth educator and board member of Lamaze Intl. Her articles starts on p. 16. These are great guidebooks BTW, read the NYC guide when I was pregnant and it was helpful in summarizing shockingly high rates of Cs in NYC. http://www.choicesinchildbirth.org/birthguide/HealthyBirth_4b.pdf
[ Reply | Options ]11.02.09, 11:44 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]
If I knew that nothing would go wrong, the idea of being at home is lovely. But things do go wrong, I know 2 people personally that lost their babies during home birth, albeit in a 20 year period. So I think birthing centers in hospitals, staffed by midwives, are a great halfway point. And you can leave after 12 hours. They even have jacuzzis.
[ Reply | Options ]11.01.09, 07:12 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]Things go wrong in hospitals too.
[ Reply | Options ]11.02.09, 11:33 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]
the point of homebirth, as i understand it, is to take a non medical condition (pregnancy) out of the realm of the hospital. seems like a point of view that is valid and at worst won't affect you because you wouldn't choose to do it.
[ Reply | Options ]11.02.09, 11:36 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]
[+] Not flaming, just curious... when someone says 'they cannot breast feed' what does th... 263 replies
- you're telling me some women choose not to feed their babies naturally in order to avoid other mothers who breastfeed? How on earth does that...your "evolution" theory explain the incredibly high rates of women dying in childbirth before modern medicine--"the curse of Eve" etc. Humans are not perfectly designed....LLL is against any sort of reproductive technology too since it's not "natural"...
Talk : : October 29, 2009
Not flaming, just curious... when someone says 'they cannot breast feed' what does that really mean? new mom here. due in a couple months.
263 replies [ Reply | Watch | Options ]10.29.09, 01:56 PM [ Flag ]A friend of mine's DD is tongue tied. She tried but gave up after a month.
[ Reply | Options ]10.29.09, 01:57 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]This was my dd, it was horrible for the first 2 months, then they clipped her tongue and it was smooth sailing.
[ Reply | Options ]10.29.09, 02:02 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]i didn't know someone could physically be tongue tied. They clipped what on the tongue?
[ Reply | Options ]10.29.09, 05:40 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]The fungdulum (sp) that ties the bottom of the tongue to your mouth
[ Reply | Options ]10.29.09, 05:48 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]this happens. My first dd was like that (im not sure the term was tongue tied though) and they clipped it but still no luck, however, I tried and tried for about a month and a half and she finally started. Don't know if it's only because of breastfeeding, but my two kids are sooo healthy other kids seem weak :D
[ Reply | Options ]10.29.09, 07:31 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]r u joking? my kids were born bigger than other kids but bottle fed after and are less sick than most kids we know(besides the whole high score on the erb disputing the smarts they gain from breastfeeding). I get so sick of people trying to make me feel guilty for a physical difficulty that I spent weeks crying over, etc. when they all turn out the same- the studies do not separate out for education levels or income of the parents.
[ Reply | Options ]10.31.09, 06:47 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]
Frenulum, yes. My ds had this and it really interfered with bf. Imagine trying to eat an ice cream cone if you can't stick out your tongue, is how it was described to me. He couldn't latch properly.
[ Reply | Options ]10.29.09, 07:54 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
means they have their own private reasons for not wanting to and don't want to be harrassed by the militant BF moms.
[ Reply | Options ]10.29.09, 02:00 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]exactly - they may be on a medication that is contraindicated for BF'ing (some anti-seizure meds, some anti-depressants, etc.); they may have had breast reduction surgery in the past; they may be prone to infection; it's no one's business but their own.
[ Reply | Options ]10.29.09, 02:03 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]Agree. And I wouldn't blame them.
[ Reply | Options ]10.29.09, 02:09 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]generally it means that they aren't committed to it and give up early, or bow to the peer pressure to bottle feed, and come up with the lame excuse that bf'ing is too difficult. Of course it's difficult. It's the first true test of being a mother, which many moms shirk away from.
[ Reply | Options ]10.29.09, 04:10 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]or they just don't want to deal with sanctimonious PITAs like you.
[ Reply | Options ]10.29.09, 04:29 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]you're telling me some women choose not to feed their babies naturally in order to avoid other mothers who breastfeed? How on earth does that even make any sense?
[ Reply | Options ]10.29.09, 05:00 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]they just don't want to have to explain their decisions (nor should they have to) to people like you, who are just looking for a reason to feel superior.
[ Reply | Options ]10.29.09, 05:02 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]so they decide not to breastfeed so they don't have to explain why they decided not to breastfeed? Who's on first? I'm not looking for a reason to feel superior. Every medical association asserts bf'ing is superior. There is nothing to prove. It's already proven.
[ Reply | Options ]10.29.09, 05:04 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]No. I'm telling you that your declarations of "they aren't committed" and are shirking from being a good mother is why they have no interest in explaining their decisions to you. You've already made up your mind that they aren't good mothers and there is nothing they can say that will change your mind - it doesn't matter that they had endless bouts with mastitis when they tried BFing their first DB or that they are on anti-seizure meds or any other "legitimate" reason - all you know is that your way is the only way to do things.
[ Reply | Options ]10.29.09, 05:11 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]I had mastitis twice (at 4 wks and 6 wks, including 103 fever) and ebf my baby.
[ Reply | Options ]10.29.09, 05:13 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]there are some women for whom it's a constant battle - they'd get over it, and then get it again and again and again. It happened to SIL - she BF No 1 for 9 mos and had mastitis 7 or 8 times, no 2 for 6 mos and had it 4 times, she couldn't go through that again with no 3.
[ Reply | Options ]10.29.09, 05:17 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]and that was your choice. Others choose to stop and that is just fine and has nothing to do with being a good mother. That's absurd
[ Reply | Options ]10.29.09, 06:22 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]it's hilarious that you say "the pressure to bottle feed" what r u talking about? the pressure these days among the well-educated set is to exclusively breastfeed and you are made to feel terrible for going to the bottle- get your facts straight- maybe in other pla ces, but here in nyc it's all about the breast!
[ Reply | Options ]10.31.09, 06:49 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]
The pressure is def on BF, mostly by crazed self righteous people like you.
[ Reply | Options ]10.29.09, 04:50 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]No, it's not. Bottle feeding is much more socially acceptable in most parts of the US than is breastfeeding. Hence the sadly low rates in the US of nursing infants at 6 mos. and 1 year.
[ Reply | Options ]10.29.09, 05:01 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]i agree with this.
[ Reply | Options ]10.29.09, 05:03 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]We are talking about NYC. look I'm nursing my one yo right now, but it's not for everyone. Some women work and don't have access to pump. It's hard. the pressure on UMC NYC is BF
[ Reply | Options ]10.29.09, 05:04 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]umc myc (mouse)
[ Reply | Options ]10.29.09, 05:06 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]Huh??
[ Reply | Options ]10.29.09, 05:11 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
The decisions are typically more practical than you think. The vast majority of mothers work outside the home and the vast majority of working mothers are in jobs that are simply not able to handle pumping - a salaried employee with a private office is not the norm. An hourly employee with 15 minute timed breaks and no access to even a bathroom with a working electrical outlet simply cannot pump enough milk to supply a DB.
[ Reply | Options ]10.29.09, 05:05 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]Amen.
[ Reply | Options ]10.29.09, 05:44 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]I posted above. If I didn't have an office I doubt I would have BF as long as I did. Not everyone has that perk
[ Reply | Options ]10.29.09, 05:50 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
if you bf for 3 mo you bf - even 6 weeks. Sorry that you look at it differently
[ Reply | Options ]10.29.09, 06:23 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]I disagree. Born again Christians exclaim- "that's how Jesus wants you to feed your baby."
[ Reply | Options ]10.29.09, 06:52 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]Did it ever occur to you that it's not due to social pressures but the fact that most mothers in the US return to work when their kid is 3 months old and that most jobs make it VERY difficult for mothers to pump at work? Or does such a concern not enter your dreamy little UMC mom-bubble?
[ Reply | Options ]10.30.09, 01:31 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
np - I didn't find it difficult at all actually. Dd latched easily and everything went smoothly -I just felt like stopping at 4 mo. No big deal. No big deal if I went straight to formula either. Who cares. Baby didn't
[ Reply | Options ]10.29.09, 06:19 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]^^^^^^ this is why they say "cannot breastfeed" self rightous wackos
[ Reply | Options ]10.29.09, 06:37 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]or, perhaps, they have a serious illness communicable through breast milk and they choose to follow their doctor's instructions! and don't want to tell anyone because it isn't anyone's business. and then they are judged by PITAs like you. honestly you are hateful.
[ Reply | Options ]10.30.09, 11:33 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]
some women do not produce enough milk
[ Reply | Options ]10.29.09, 02:00 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]that's fixable. women who adopt children can breastfeed if they want.
[ Reply | Options ]10.29.09, 02:01 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]lol. yes, every woman who adopted could have breastfed their dc if they'd only tried.
[ Reply | Options ]10.29.09, 02:04 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]?? many women who adopt do breast feed. just saying that while there may be other reasons why someone "cannot" - usually those are technical, and not because of production.
[ Reply | Options ]10.29.09, 02:06 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]and don't forget the dads--if they really wanted to and they were really good parents, then they'd totally start lactating.
[ Reply | Options ]10.29.09, 05:14 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]No. Actually, this isn't possible.
[ Reply | Options ]10.29.09, 05:55 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]Actually, it technically is. Adoptive moms can make milk if suction is applied to their breast, like a baby's mouth. The feedback loop to the brain tells their body to make more prolactin and thus lactate. Men are capable of the same thing. However, obviously men generally don't breastfeed as a. they feel super weird doing it and b. breasts start making milk after delivery.
[ Reply | Options ]10.29.09, 10:59 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]Why not just find a willing she-wolf? If it worked for the Roman Empire, why not here?
[ Reply | Options ]10.30.09, 08:47 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]wow. it isn't the same at all. you can't milk anything with nipples. MEN DON'T HAVE BREASTS.
[ Reply | Options ]10.31.09, 01:16 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]yes, it is a fact that a man's body can be trained to breastfeed. If u r going to be santimonious about breastfeeding and adoption at least have all your information together lady!
[ Reply | Options ]10.31.09, 06:52 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]Excuse me. Men DO have breasts (they just don't breast feed with them). I'm pretty sure men DO have breasts as my father had breast cancer (and survived). Mastectomy and everything.
[ Reply | Options ]10.31.09, 02:19 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
not always and some people don't want to take all those meds. Just not worth it.
[ Reply | Options ]10.29.09, 02:37 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]This is arguable. SOME women can. It takes a lot of meds and/or cooperative milk glands. It's rare for an adoptive mom to nourish a child completely at the breast. That said, I'm all for adoptive breastfeeding.
[ Reply | Options ]10.29.09, 05:21 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]Pfffft. Keep on believing everything the lactivists tell you.
[ Reply | Options ]10.29.09, 07:57 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]Way wrong. I did everything possible to increase my milk supply (pumping, herbs, nutrition, water intake, and multiple appointments with a lactation consultant). Always had to supplement with formula. Stopped bf'ing when I went back to work b/c it would be ridiculous to stop my day multiple times to pump out 1 oz.
[ Reply | Options ]10.30.09, 01:14 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
That would be me, I still bf but had to supplement because both db did not gain enough weight
[ Reply | Options ]10.29.09, 02:02 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]I really think this is a myth. How would the human race have survived if women did not produce enough milk? I think it might be true in a very small fraction of cases but not nearly as often as women claim this is the reason. I am not trying to criticize women who dont bf. I actually feel that it is a problem that is made worse by the medical field. OB's and pedi's are so quick to assure a new mom that it is okay to give up bf'ing because she might not produce enough. Then they encourage supplementation with formular way too readily. As soon as you supplement, your supply drops (even if you pump). So it works against the new mom.
[ Reply | Options ]10.29.09, 04:01 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]ITA. EVolution is a wonderful thing and we as humans were able to provide for our babies long before formula was invented (that's right, invented - it's artificial sludge!!) And for all those who say wet nurses saved many babies...you're right! The WHO recommends using wet nurses or milk bank milk if you can not nurse. Formula is truly a last resort, that unfortunately has been marketed to the masses and people now think is an acceptable and comparable substitute for breastmilk, which it is NOT.
[ Reply | Options ]10.29.09, 04:08 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]sanctimonious a$$holes like you made me feel like sh&t for a year or so. evolution is a wonderful thing. too bad you haven't evolved any higher than pig on the food chain.
[ Reply | Options ]10.29.09, 04:11 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]wow, guess you have to resort to name calling and cursing when the facts aren't on your side.
[ Reply | Options ]10.29.09, 04:12 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]It is not very evolved of you to be so rude. You might have had significant and legitimate reasons that it did not work for you. But really, the number of women who claim that they cannot bf is climbing like mad. Formula use is rampant. Many more women would be able to if they were not misled and misinformed so early.
[ Reply | Options ]10.29.09, 04:14 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]np. i don't have a dog in this race (don't really care what other people do) but i think people underestimate the power of the formula industry. just sayin. when i think of the harm they've done to developing nations it makes me ill.
[ Reply | Options ]10.29.09, 04:21 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]believe it or not, i wasn't brainwashed by nestle. but you're right. it's all a vast conspiracy.
[ Reply | Options ]10.29.09, 04:24 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]i'm not suggesting you (or anyone was); don't even think it's a conspiracy. just capitalism at its finest.
[ Reply | Options ]10.29.09, 04:26 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]np: I cried for months b/c I couldn't and every mother that could thought it was my choice to use formula and it wasn't. Realize that there are all sorts of reason that people 'can not' that have nothing to do with a decision not to.
[ Reply | Options ]10.29.09, 04:29 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]for what it's worth, i think the responder was railing at the system in place which offers little support for nursing, not you.
[ Reply | Options ]10.29.09, 04:31 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]np. i don't think so.
[ Reply | Options ]10.29.09, 04:35 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]true
[ Reply | Options ]10.29.09, 08:40 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]I agree. I don't think the NP was trying to be mean. The formula companies did encourage lots of women in developing countries to turn away from BF when it is more economical and better for baby. Really unfortunate because these women are already poor, and spending money on a 'resource' they already had.
[ Reply | Options ]10.29.09, 11:29 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
so true
[ Reply | Options ]10.29.09, 04:29 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
Oh and if we are going to be rude about it, really, I do not mind that so many women choose not to bf these days. It gives my ebf'd children an edge from day one.
[ Reply | Options ]10.29.09, 04:16 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]how is that? once you account for socio-economic differences, those studies showing ebf babies having higher iqs are worthless. but you already knew that, right? because you're so much smarter than everyone else?
[ Reply | Options ]10.29.09, 04:20 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]you just keep telling yourself that
[ Reply | Options ]10.29.09, 04:26 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]np: she's right. you won't be able to find a solid study that demonstrates the superiority of breastfeeding in the US (where we have clean water). go ahead, look! I breastfed, but I also understand the choice is hardly clearcut.
[ Reply | Options ]10.29.09, 05:17 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]There is also no solid data that eating organic is better for you. But we all know that it is.
[ Reply | Options ]10.29.09, 05:32 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]That much-hyped study that recently came out showed that the nutrient of organic vs non-organic foods was not statistically different. I don't think anybody argues that consuming more pesticides is not detrimental (and that is why most people buy organic). There are countless studies about the negative effects of pesticide consumption. So I disagree.
[ Reply | Options ]10.29.09, 05:35 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
This is total BS. See the following websites for reviews of studies published in peer reviewed medical journals that suggest greater disease prevention, IQs, overall health for breastfed infants than for chemically fed infants: WHO, LLL, KellyMom.com.
[ Reply | Options ]10.29.09, 05:38 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]Please provide the specific studies. These sites describe policies (WHO), many of which are not based on solid evidence. And sites like Kellymom are hardly solid sources of scientific evidence!
[ Reply | Options ]10.29.09, 05:40 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]Are you dense too? I said the sites provide reviews of studies (ie, summaries of the studies)...the citations are there. I'm not your research assistant...go look them up yourself!
[ Reply | Options ]10.29.09, 05:41 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]Look, you wanted to prove something that I already know is wrong. You can't prove it, hence you list some non-academic general sites. Obviously I'm not going to comb through the entirety of those sites to look for evidence that is not there. As I said, I breastfed, but I know that there is not compelling evidence that makes it a no-brainer. I'm not sure why the truth makes you so angry.
[ Reply | Options ]10.29.09, 05:50 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]The truth is that every medical association recommends breastfeeding is superior to formula. These recommendations are based on scientific studies. That is the truth. You are spewing ignorance.
[ Reply | Options ]10.29.09, 05:52 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]I'm telling you--as an epidemiologist--that they are not based on scientific studies, at least as far as US populations with access to clean water. If women CAN breastfeed, then there is no reason not to. But the evidence is simply not there. And if you believe that most medical recommendations are based on scientific studies... well, that is very naive. I wish.
[ Reply | Options ]10.29.09, 05:53 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]np: why can't you provide the specific studies that show the benefits if you know so much about them?
[ Reply | Options ]10.29.09, 05:56 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]Truly, I'm not your research asst. so I'm not going to spend hours on medline or pubmed finding articles for you. There are summaries with reference lists...find one...here's one regarding a meta-analysis of breastfeeding studies: http://www.naturalnews.com/026175_health_disease_cancer.html
[ Reply | Options ]10.29.09, 06:02 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]OMG, "naturalnews" is not a source of valid scientific information. And please review the sources listed at the bottom of that link. Not a single journal article. Try again.
[ Reply | Options ]10.29.09, 06:06 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]dude, read any meta analysis of these studies. seriously, why don't you find me an article suggesting formula is better than breastmilk?
[ Reply | Options ]10.29.09, 06:07 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]Credible studies find neither option to be better than the other. Since you are having so much trouble understanding what credible study is, I will provide some links to ACTUAL PEER-REVIEWED ARTICLES IN RESPECTED journals http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11368697
[ Reply | Options ]10.29.09, 06:09 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1361236/
[ Reply | Options ]10.29.09, 06:10 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]http://jn.nutrition.org/cgi/content/abstract/jn.108.097675v1?ct=ct
[ Reply | Options ]10.29.09, 06:11 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]And--just for you--this article discusses the limitations of earlier studies that purported to find a link between breastfeeding and good outcomes. As our studies have become better at controlling for confounder, the links disappear. http://jn.nutrition.org/cgi/content/abstract/139/2/408S
[ Reply | Options ]10.29.09, 06:13 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]http://abcnews.go.com/Health/story?id=7242880&page=1&page=1
[ Reply | Options ]10.29.09, 06:14 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]I'm sorry you weren't able to/chose not to breastfeed your child/ren and feel so defensive about it. It's actually kind of heartbreaking to see how desperate you are.
[ Reply | Options ]10.29.09, 06:15 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]OMG, and unacceptable levels of pesticides and HIV can be found in breastmilk. Look, you clearly don't understand what scientific evidence is. I am not saying formula is better--I breastfed. I am saying there is no evidence that it is worse in high income countries!
[ Reply | Options ]10.29.09, 06:17 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]And I said that I breastfed several times already. So this isn't about my decision. I think it's irritating people are so sanctimonious with so little basis.
[ Reply | Options ]10.29.09, 06:18 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]np: anti-science mom is not going to admit she is wrong. she is probably one of the crazy anti-vaccine people. don't waste your typing! her mind is made up and she just wants to judge.
[ Reply | Options ]10.29.09, 06:20 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]It's hilarious you think I'm anti science mom. Love science. I'm getting a phd right now. Just not getting paid to be anyone's research asst. And I vaccinate.
[ Reply | Options ]10.29.09, 06:24 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]np: so what do you have to say about all those articles referenced above?
[ Reply | Options ]10.29.09, 07:11 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]Good luck with that PhD! I posted all those articles above. If you honestly believe that the websites you referenced are credible sources, and you don't see the problems with your arguments... I seriously doubt any respectable institution will give you a doctorate. Mine certainly wouldn't--I'm a professor.
[ Reply | Options ]10.30.09, 04:16 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]Oh please, like I said, I'm not your research asst. so wasn't looking on pubmed (and made very clear I was posting summaries with references, look them up yourself!). You know as well as I do there are scores of meta-analyses. I'm defending next spring. Wish me luck! Who knows, maybe I know you?? I'll keep a look out for the defensive and angry professor.
[ Reply | Options ]10.30.09, 05:54 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]np: lady, i really doubt anybody would hire you as a research assistant. though your persistence, even when proven very wrong, may come in handy. i seriously doubt that anybody is giving you a phd, and what's more, i have a feeling that you didn't graduate from college. you are a real loon.
[ Reply | Options ]10.30.09, 06:07 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]your feelings are wrong. you seem to be the stubborn one. undergrad at an ivy. two masters from another ivy. phd at a new york institution, just as soon as I defend. There are smart people who have different opinions than you.
[ Reply | Options ]10.30.09, 08:18 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]nnp: np means new poster. you are arguing with multiple people above. you understand that, right?
[ Reply | Options ]10.31.09, 01:47 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
are you suggesting kellymom is a reliable source? seriously?
[ Reply | Options ]10.29.09, 07:52 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
I love it! I agree...let them bottle feed the chemicals. I look forward to giving my chunky monkey ebf baby the evolutionary advantage.
[ Reply | Options ]10.29.09, 05:02 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]i was ff and have an i.q. of 140. i hate my mom for not letting me reach my potential of 146.
[ Reply | Options ]10.29.09, 07:53 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]I don't know you, but I'm pretty sure my kids are smarter than yours.
[ Reply | Options ]10.30.09, 08:09 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]
LOL!! I have a teenager and trust me, the kids of the EBFers I know are just as much a mixed bag--health-wise, socially, academically--as any other kid I know. Why don't you go get a pair of pliers and pry that halo off your head now?
[ Reply | Options ]10.29.09, 05:16 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]xoxoxox!
[ Reply | Options ]10.29.09, 08:37 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
I have to say, even though i ebd my ds until 14 months, my husband was raised solely on formula, his mom drank and smoked while she was pregnant with him, and he probably is a real genius, with a great body and quite handsome. soooo, who knows. Motherhood is tough. Most of us do the best we can. Some babies are easier to bf and some bodies are better made for producing milk.
[ Reply | Options ]10.29.09, 05:48 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]I love you. Thank you. On that note I will depart to go sew a Halloween costume. Have a good night.
[ Reply | Options ]10.29.09, 06:03 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]Yes yes yes! I was even given gasp cows milk!
[ Reply | Options ]10.29.09, 06:06 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]so one smart man means that all the studies are wrong? come on.
[ Reply | Options ]10.29.09, 06:08 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]what studies? when you control for education and socioeconomic level of the parent, all studies show no health benefit to bf.
[ Reply | Options ]10.31.09, 06:58 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]His father is an engineer with two patents and his mother was a math teacher. His brother got a perfect SAT score and early admittance to MIT...he was also not breastfed.
[ Reply | Options ]10.31.09, 03:32 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
Just think how great he'd be if only his mother had bf'd. ;-)
[ Reply | Options ]10.30.09, 09:23 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]
Of, like, 3 or 4 whole IQ points!
[ Reply | Options ]10.29.09, 08:02 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
Can you please post a link where the WHO advocates wet nursing over formula? Are we talking about a third world country here or Brooklyn? This I've got to see...
[ Reply | Options ]10.29.09, 05:11 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]NP: They advocate it for all children, but the intent is mostly to prevent formula scandals like the ones that occurred in low-income countries. Also, we are continually finding things are "left out" of formula, so in most cases breastmilk is a safer bet. Obviously not when moms have HIV or other communicable diseases! http://www.who.int/topics/breastfeeding/en/
[ Reply | Options ]10.29.09, 05:20 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]they advocate wet nursing for all children--really? Methinks you are bending the facts slightly. The main problem w formula-feeding in 3rd world countries was water contamination. And yes--I know that they recommend bf'ing, blah blah blah because we've all had this stupid argument before. I just can't believe that the santci-fools are back again in force all starry-eyed about how wonderful evolution is and predicting how their EBF'ed children will all be Nobel winners because of their immense sacrifice and bravery. Feh.
[ Reply | Options ]10.29.09, 05:27 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]bitter much that you "chose" not to breastfeed? Sorry for your loss.
[ Reply | Options ]10.29.09, 05:36 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]F*** you times 1000. I was medically unable to BF for reasons that are so NYB. And yet I've ended up with a straight-A, 5'10 athlete at a TT school. The biggest difference between you and me is that I would NEVER second-guess someone's personal choice to BF or not to BF and I'm an experienced enough parent by now to know that we'll never know all of the factors that go into making our children the people they are. But seriously--enjoy your ride on the high horse, hope you don't land on your fat head when you fall off. Oh, and btw, I hope your bazooms hit your kneecaps soon.
[ Reply | Options ]10.29.09, 05:45 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]Have a nice day. When you go from discussion of facts to cursing and name calling, you lose me.
[ Reply | Options ]10.29.09, 05:49 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]I'm the one who posted the links above, and I have to say that your post "bitter much?" was just as immature. Both of you should be ashamed.
[ Reply | Options ]10.29.09, 05:51 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]To the "both of you should be ashamed" poster - you realize there multiple people posting here right?
[ Reply | Options ]10.29.09, 05:55 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]NP then stop responding in thread and identify yourself as a NP.
[ Reply | Options ]10.29.09, 06:18 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
I don't think you got quite to F*** You Number 687--stick around--there's more.
[ Reply | Options ]10.29.09, 05:51 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]I don't see any more. Apparently you are the only hostile one here.
[ Reply | Options ]10.29.09, 06:12 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]no, it's just that "bitter much" poster finally chose to shut her smug, stupid trap so I didn't need to unleash any more whoop-*ss. I chose to focus on the generous and positive comments on this thread rather than the sanctimonious jerks.
[ Reply | Options ]10.30.09, 08:34 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]
np. f&ck you.
[ Reply | Options ]10.29.09, 07:51 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
Look, I have no dog in this race... you were asking about what the WHO recommends. The WHO recommends breastfeeding exclusively for the first 6 months, including the use of wet nurses if necessary. You can feel free to disagree with these recommendations, but that is what they recommend--many of their policies are controversial. But the other poster is correct. http://www.who.int/nutrition/topics/infantfeeding_recommendation/en/index.html
[ Reply | Options ]10.29.09, 05:38 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]Yes, the WHO advocates wet nursing over formula. Are you dense?
[ Reply | Options ]10.29.09, 05:40 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]In Mozambique or in the US? Are YOU dense? or are you a wet nurse trying to drum up business?
[ Reply | Options ]10.29.09, 05:47 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]Do you not believe the WHO website or are you just choosing to ignore it?
[ Reply | Options ]10.29.09, 05:50 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]Evidently ignoring. Some people can't admit when they are wrong...
[ Reply | Options ]10.29.09, 05:52 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]apparently definitely ignoring! ho hum. they know they are wrong.
[ Reply | Options ]10.29.09, 06:11 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]Sorry, most of us don't apply the cultural mores and hygienic requirements of a 3rd world country to our daily lives here in the U.S. If you understand that water contamination is the biggest reason behind the WHO's recs. and that's not an issue in this country, then I really don't understand the core of your argument. They're not recommending BF'ing so these kids in Liberia or Beirut will do better on the f***ing ERBs, OK?
[ Reply | Options ]10.29.09, 07:37 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
The WHO recommendations are global. Hence the "world" in their title. No, I'm not a wet nurse.
[ Reply | Options ]10.29.09, 05:48 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]The WHO also calibrates their recommendations for places where access to clean water is a serious problem. Given a choice between a wet nurse and formula made with sewage run-off, that's not a difficult choice, but that's not an issue in most of the US, where the tap water is almost always safe and drinkable.
[ Reply | Options ]10.29.09, 05:51 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]The WHO advocates milk from another mother or milk from a milk bank (pasteurized) is better than what they term "artificial milk". These recs are regardless of locale.
[ Reply | Options ]10.29.09, 05:54 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]thank you! I really didn't think this was such a hard concept to understand...
[ Reply | Options ]10.29.09, 05:57 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]Actually, the WHO advocates human milk over formula regardless of location.
[ Reply | Options ]10.29.09, 05:58 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]The WHO is focused primarily on global health. Do you think that they are concerned more with maternal bonding, ear infections, and IQ points of babies on the UES or trying to keep babies in Africa from getting water-borne illnesses?
[ Reply | Options ]10.30.09, 08:37 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]
Here you go: While formula is commonly perceived to be the medically recommended second-choice infant food after breastfeeding, the World Health Organization (WHO) actually states: "The second choice is the mother's own milk expressed and given to the infant in some way. The third choice is the milk of another human mother. The fourth and last choice is artificial baby milk."
[ Reply | Options ]10.29.09, 05:35 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]Like the WHO, the American Academy or Pediatrics recommends BF for everyone, and they cite lots of research about its benefits. But I looked at a half dozen of the articles they cite (and link to), and I am not impressed. Most of the articles show benefits for kids who are premature, etc. The benefits for healthy kids are slim -- like less loose poop while BF, but not 6 months later. My guess is that the public health crowd decided to put out the message "BF is best for everyone" because they thought that people were too stupid to grasp a more complex message. They made the same mistake with fat; put out the message "fat in foods is bad;" So, people migrated towards food low in fat... and high in sugar. Then, it turned out it all depended on what type of fat was being consumed. http://aappolicy.aappublications.org/cgi/content/full/pediatrics;115/2/496#R12 S
[ Reply | Options ]10.29.09, 07:41 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
I was mostly formula fed (because my mom got pg with my sister after 3 months) but I agree with your post. I mean, if we were in a rural area with only non-manufactured items, I'm sure a lot fewer women would say that they 'can't' breastfeed. I might give my baby formula, but I wouldn't say it's because I can't breastfeed, I'll be honest and say that I am doing it for convenience, my own mental health, etc. I'm sure some women truly cannot due to mastitis, duct defects, etc. but it definitely isn't 71% of them (the current formula feeding rate in the US). The milk of each animal is optimized to support the growth of its species, and this is true in humans as well. However, just because something is better doesn't mean the other option is poison, it just means it is 'not as good'! I don't get why some moms who FF freak out when the simple FACT is stated that breast milk is superior. Maybe they feel like it's a criticism but it really isn't. If I say grape juice is superior to grape drink, it doesn't mean that grape drink is poison. It's just not as good, even if it has all the same vitamins added. So while I am not militant about BF (being FF myself), I think that logically, and scientifically speaking, it is the superior option.
[ Reply | Options ]10.29.09, 11:25 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]-*
[ Reply | Options ]10.29.09, 11:25 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
it is certainly acceptable and comparable, otherwise babies would not thrive on formula, which many most certainly do.
[ Reply | Options ]10.30.09, 08:08 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]
This is silly. Infant mortality was high. Babies whose mothers couldn't breastfeed just died.
[ Reply | Options ]10.29.09, 04:18 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]But truly if babies died today at the same rate that their moms choose not to bf, the human race would have dwindled to nothing! Infant mortality was high for a variety of reasons (not just insufficient milk supply) and it was still nowhere near the rate at which women today choose not to bf.
[ Reply | Options ]10.29.09, 04:21 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]infant mortality wasn't high because their mothers couldn't nurse.
[ Reply | Options ]10.29.09, 04:23 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
Your grasp of biology and logic is pretty weak. Evolution?Some women produce enough milk, others don't. How does your "evolution" theory explain the incredibly high rates of women dying in childbirth before modern medicine--"the curse of Eve" etc. Humans are not perfectly designed. Mothers die. Babies fail to thrive. And there's load of historical precedent for some women not being able to breastfeed enough to adequately feed their children and farming out the job to other women.
[ Reply | Options ]10.29.09, 05:09 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]Right, and that's what they should still be doing, instead of giving artificial chemicals.
[ Reply | Options ]10.29.09, 05:39 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]And I hear that leeches can actually be quite effective. I think I'll pick some up at the leech-a-torium on my way to the wet-nurse bar.
[ Reply | Options ]10.29.09, 08:00 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
Sometimes babies died-infant mortality rates are hardly the same today as they were throughout history. Come on, you really don't know this?
[ Reply | Options ]10.29.09, 06:35 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
This is a myth. Inadequate milk production is estimated to affect less than 10% of the maternal population.
[ Reply | Options ]10.29.09, 04:11 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]but there are other issues. latch problems, mastitis, ppd. i'm not saying there aren't lazy women out there, but a lot of these posts are really obnoxious. the assumption is that anyone who didn't just didn't try.
[ Reply | Options ]10.29.09, 04:22 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]no, really, that is not the assumption. I know a handful of women who really tried very very hard and it did not work for them. I also know a boat load who chose not to even try or who gave up way too early.
[ Reply | Options ]10.29.09, 04:29 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]no, t is the assumption. everyone after their long harangue about the evils of the formula companies and the mammary gland through history, says, "of course there are women who can't bf. but really: anyone who doesn't sucks." they can't hide their contempt. there really is no sympathy because they secretly don't believe these women exist. even though they realize they have to pretend they do or look like fools or monsters.
[ Reply | Options ]10.29.09, 04:34 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]it's just not that serious. sure it seems that way on here, but in real life, no one gives a darn.
[ Reply | Options ]10.29.09, 04:45 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]ita. The scepticism and judgemental attitude of the EBF'ers here is revolting. It's like some evil gymnastics coach screaming "you just didn't try hard enough!" Not exactly what you'd expect from a truly maternal type.
[ Reply | Options ]10.29.09, 05:30 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]Hey now, I'm an EBF and I really think the EBF Brigade do themselves a disservice by acting this way.
[ Reply | Options ]10.29.09, 06:20 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]I am in NO way knocking EBFer's per se!
[ Reply | Options ]10.29.09, 07:16 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
only 5% of the population.
[ Reply | Options ]10.29.09, 04:54 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
it happens sometimes that the child has trouble. when it happens in days of yore, people got wet nurses. wonder when someone will bring those back.
[ Reply | Options ]10.29.09, 02:00 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]they're already "back". they exist.
[ Reply | Options ]10.29.09, 04:09 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]in america? who knew. thanks.
[ Reply | Options ]10.29.09, 04:12 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
Breastfeeding isnt easy for a lot of women. That said if you are committed and educated about it there is a 99% chance you will be successful. It all depends on how bad you want it. Im sure there are those women who, due to medical or pharma issues cant, but it is rare. it took my premie 2 mos and 2 lactation consultants before he would latch.
[ Reply | Options ]10.29.09, 02:04 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]that's really not true. no one tried harder than i did (and i've got the receipts from the lactation consultant, totalling in the thousands to prove it) but i had to pump as well as bf. i'm assuming you did too during those two months.
[ Reply | Options ]10.29.09, 02:07 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]Im saying that you are in that 1%. I was about to give up and just pump, when I found the right LC to work with. I have no horse in this race.
[ Reply | Options ]10.29.09, 02:21 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]^^ just trying to emphasize to OP that it isnt easy for everyone, that doesnt mean it cant be done. Each woman needs to know what their limits are.
[ Reply | Options ]10.29.09, 02:22 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
Exactly. BF'ing is not always difficult but can be very difficult. It can be painful too. If you are determined enough, it typically can be done (with a few exceptions).
[ Reply | Options ]10.29.09, 04:05 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]Exactly. It was difficult for me. Painful too. Mastitis also. Plugged ducts also. Refluxy baby also. Took antibiotics also. But I did it. It's possible.
[ Reply | Options ]10.29.09, 05:47 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]Yes. I fought through breastfeeding twins even though I was told by everyone including pedi that I would not be able to do it. It was the biggest fight of my life but totally worth it.
[ Reply | Options ]10.29.09, 05:56 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]Congratulations! That must have been really difficult. You are a testament to moms working hard to do what's best for their babies, despite the social pressures not to (to bottle feed). You should be very proud.
[ Reply | Options ]10.29.09, 05:58 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]what r u talking about? the social pressure not to bf? teh social pressure is completely to make you bf and feel bad when you spend on lac consultants, special doctors, tape & tupbes to attach to your nipples and then there is not enough $$ left to keep trying. get your facts straight.
[ Reply | Options ]10.31.09, 07:06 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]you need to get your facts straight. Most women today do not bf and the medical field is way too quick to encourage new moms to throw in the towel. Certainly there are almost NO moms of twins who bf. You would be hard pressed to find an EBF twin mom even though if they are given a chance to try, it is totally doable. You are overly sensitive about the fact that you were not able to do it. It is fine that you weren't able to bf. It is fine that my babies were born premature but I would have preferred that they were born full-term and most people would agree that it would be ideal for them to be born full term! I for one am certainly not trying to attack any mom who was not able to bf, really!!! really really!
[ Reply | Options ]10.31.09, 09:37 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]
typically? link please? i love how all you sanctimonius jerks talk out of your sanctimonious bums.
[ Reply | Options ]10.29.09, 07:54 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
My friend had a breast reduction and was unable to breastfeed after it. Also my SIL had a really hard time emotionally after delivering her ds and breast feeding was so stressfull for her that it was not worth her own emotional health.
[ Reply | Options ]10.29.09, 02:04 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]np Also had a reduction and two revisions. Couldn't bf. Tried, but didn't work out. My dcs have never had a sick visit and 7 1/2 yo has never missed a day of school--never gets sick. Tip top SB and erb, too.
[ Reply | Options ]10.29.09, 02:15 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
unable to produce enough milk. I had complications during labor which affected my milk supply
[ Reply | Options ]10.29.09, 02:07 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]i could not breast feed. I tried but baby was gumming down (biting with her gums) and it was too much pain.
[ Reply | Options ]10.29.09, 02:13 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]I was just dumb. My baby, too.
[ Reply | Options ]10.29.09, 02:18 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]I just didn't want to but I have friends who had trouble producing enough milk. Not a big deal. Formula is just fine. Do as you wish
[ Reply | Options ]10.29.09, 02:38 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]Please do know, however, (expectant OP) that the hospital WILL STRONGLY URGE YOU to BF! You will be made to feel like sh** if you decide not to.
[ Reply | Options ]10.29.09, 03:52 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]As you should, if you "decide" not to...
[ Reply | Options ]10.29.09, 04:02 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]ITTTA!!!
[ Reply | Options ]10.29.09, 04:16 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]ITA
[ Reply | Options ]10.29.09, 04:17 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
you're a pig - it's a choice. No reason to bully anyone as you apparently would. Glad you weren't my nurse. I was not urged to bf - I was also asked if they could give dd formula at night in the nursery.
[ Reply | Options ]10.29.09, 04:55 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]The cursing name caller is back. it's a "choice"? Please...
[ Reply | Options ]10.29.09, 04:58 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]and yet you think it's OK for the hospital should make someone who decides not to EBF "feel like sh*t"? That kind of name calling is cool with you?
[ Reply | Options ]10.29.09, 05:13 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]I think it's a bizarre decision for someone to "decide" not to feed their child and yes, I feel hospital staff should condemn that, just as they would if the mother decide not to take of the child in other ways. For those with medical issues who can not nurse, it's another story.
[ Reply | Options ]10.29.09, 05:45 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]But hey--why not just give dirty looks and snotty comments to everyone and if you throw a few breast cancer patients or breast reduction moms or mothers with illnesses under the bus, then hey--it's all for the glorious cause of lactation! Yippeee!!
[ Reply | Options ]10.29.09, 05:49 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]You and I both know those are not the majority of people who choose not to breastfeed.
[ Reply | Options ]10.29.09, 05:56 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]I just don't believe this. Seriously--most of the women on this board are pro-choice, so they consider it a mother's personal and private decision whether or not to let a baby LIVE, but they're getting maniacal about what to feed it?? We're not talking about ground glass, here, we're talking about FORMULA. I'll ask again--why is it your business?
[ Reply | Options ]10.29.09, 06:01 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]It's a public health concern, like any other. You really have to ask?
[ Reply | Options ]10.29.09, 06:04 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]np: some would argue it is ground glass. did you see that study this summer about how formula contains same active ingredient as rocket fuel? gross.
[ Reply | Options ]10.29.09, 06:05 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]that is such a lame, drama-queen argument. Perchlorate was found in all kinds of places, including drinking water all over the U.S..
[ Reply | Options ]10.29.09, 07:27 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
I doubt these women would spew their venom like this in real life. It's so sad how women don't support other women's choices. I find it odd why they would get so angry about something that has no effect on them personally. It's quite sad. I actually think OP knew she was posting a trigger or maybe it was cnet
[ Reply | Options ]10.29.09, 06:18 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]ITA.
[ Reply | Options ]10.30.09, 06:22 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]
that must be new. they didn't encourage me at all 8 years ago.
[ Reply | Options ]10.29.09, 04:17 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]np. we had mandatory sessions with a lactation consultant. sure we got the enfamil gift pack on the way out the door, but it was almost an afterthought.
[ Reply | Options ]10.29.09, 04:28 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]not me.
[ Reply | Options ]10.29.09, 04:29 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]we got tons of little bottles of similac. I took all I could
[ Reply | Options ]10.29.09, 04:56 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]6 years ago at Lenox Hill they didn't give me any and I wish they had. We didn't have any at home, I had a very hard time BF'ing, even with a wonderful LC. DD started getting lethargic, sleeping through feedings and getting jaundiced. Ped saw her 48 hrs after we went home from the hospital - she and LC agreed that we needed to supplement with formula ASAP or DD was going to end up back in the hospital. We supplemented for a month before going on to EBF for 14 months.
[ Reply | Options ]10.29.09, 05:01 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
don't know if this was mentioned but there are a lot of antibiotics that you can't take while bf'ing. and sometimes you can't take them while pregnant either. so as soon as you've had the baby, they put you on the antibiotic and you cna't bf.
[ Reply | Options ]10.29.09, 03:55 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]there are antibiotics that are safe for breastfeeding moms. I took them
[ Reply | Options ]10.29.09, 04:56 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]yes. but it depends what you need it for and at what strength. i know of cases where someone was put on a relatively low dose during pregnancy and couldn't get the full treatment until afterwards.
[ Reply | Options ]10.29.09, 05:12 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
in 95% of the cases it means they are too lazy or self-centered or have other hang ups. Very small % who actually have a medical issue
[ Reply | Options ]10.29.09, 05:01 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]I have to say after the first two months BF is easier than FF, and I haven't weaned bc I am too lazy to
[ Reply | Options ]10.29.09, 05:08 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]As an EBF'er, I agree, breastfeeding is so much easier...the people who think formula is easier are crazy!
[ Reply | Options ]10.29.09, 05:44 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]neither is easier. the easiest is when you are bf'ing but your dc happily takes a bottle and then you have the best of both worlds. can pick and choose based on that day's schedule. that's the only way it's easier.
[ Reply | Options ]10.29.09, 05:49 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]breastfeeding is easier for me. I can't imagine mixing formula and bottles etc. would stink.
[ Reply | Options ]10.29.09, 06:06 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]ITA. I do not understand why anyone would think formula is easier. BF means no bottles to sterilize, nothing to mix, no worry about temperature, everything you need when you walk out the door!
[ Reply | Options ]10.29.09, 07:01 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]it's easier if you are going to a palce where you can't or don't want to bf. it's easier b/c someone else can give the child the bottle or the child can hold his/her own bottle which frees up your hands. with my first dc, it didn't matter as much. with next dc, it made a huge difference to have the option. sometimes it was easier to run out the door without packing bottles and formula. other times it was easier to take the five minutes to pack it up and know i wouldn't be attached to my baby when he needed to eat.
[ Reply | Options ]10.29.09, 07:10 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
I've been BFing for 13 months. After the initial hurdle, it is def. easier.
[ Reply | Options ]10.29.09, 06:13 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]ITA
[ Reply | Options ]10.29.09, 06:16 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]unless you work and have to pump (signed mom who BF'ed 3 DCs while working FT 80+ hours/week
[ Reply | Options ]10.29.09, 06:20 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]Yeah I know (I pumped), but come on, haven't youever whipped it out to soothe a baby? Isn't that easier than preparing formula? Not having to worry about packing formula or food when you're out and about?
[ Reply | Options ]10.29.09, 06:22 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]wow! That is impressive. Good for you. I pumped for a 40+ hour job until my DS was 12 months and it nearly killed me.
[ Reply | Options ]10.29.09, 07:03 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
My son was born with a tiny cleft in his soft palate, so he literally didn't have the suction to breastfeed or drink from a normal bottle. This is unusual, but if your baby is really having trouble feeding, make sure you rule this out ASAP. It took a number of doctors and weeks of feeding with a syringe before we got the problem diagnosed, and I still feel terrible about how hard his first few weeks were.
[ Reply | Options ]10.29.09, 05:05 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]Are all the vitriol directed towards moms who supplement as well? I saw two LCs and reeked of maple syrup and still had to supplement my humongous DB
[ Reply | Options ]10.29.09, 05:19 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]wow, a bunch of judgemental bitches here! I couldn't because I had breast cancer and had had a mastectomy in one breast and a lift in the other. I tried to with my "good" breast but couldn't. Had sanctis like some on this board when I mixed formula in public and even in the hospital!
[ Reply | Options ]10.29.09, 05:24 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]^^^oops -- had sancti's berate me like some on this board, etc.
[ Reply | Options ]10.29.09, 05:25 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]I'm sorry you went through that. I posted above about my son having a cleft palate. I also got a lot of dirty looks!
[ Reply | Options ]10.29.09, 05:28 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
That sounds awful. Kudos to you for surviving everything. But I am surprised that you received anything but support. I honestly feel like I am in a minority by being an EBF mom. I know very few moms who breastfeed at all or who even tried to bf. And I live a few miles from Berkeley, CA! I just feel saddened that bf'ing is going out of style.
[ Reply | Options ]10.29.09, 06:54 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
I had to take estrogen after my baby was born (had major pelvic damage and doc recommended this leading up for surgery 2 months after baby was born - fun times). It is pretty hard to produce milk while taking estrogen. Look it up if that sounds confusing.
[ Reply | Options ]10.29.09, 05:47 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]I bf my first child relatively easily, and so did not anticipate any difficulties with my second. From the moment he was born, he refused to take my breast. I tried everything I knew how to do (before my first, I had taken a class and read...then breastfed her for a year). I then hired a lactation consultant to help. Meanwhile, my son lost so much weight that he became jaundiced and had to be hospitalized. The lc finally gave up on us and said, "I've never seen a baby get so angry at a breast before." To this day, I don't know what happened. I ended up exclusively pumping for 5 months while still trying to breastfeed before I gave it up. Was there another way? Probably -- I just couldn't figure it out.
[ Reply | Options ]10.29.09, 06:10 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]Well after giving birth I tried everything to bf, and I mean everything, oatmeal, herbs, consultants classes etc. etc. But I had major major problems. My db was very low in weight and I had to supplement or else he would have been dehydrated. I was driving myself insane bf, pumping in additon etc. etc. I met with so much comments from the breastfeeding mafia, I was not doing it right and I was evil for supplementing. Women can be so cruel! Turn out I had a really low thyroid and that was the MEDICAL reason for not producing enough milk. Before birth get hold of a good consultant and get her to come to you in the hospital the next day or immidiately after. The nurses at my hospital was not very good in bf. GL !
[ Reply | Options ]10.29.09, 06:18 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]Really this is another topic but deserves mentioning - It is so irritating that people slam EBF moms for simply advocating for what is best for children but formula moms have no problem acting all grossed out when bf'ing moms nurse at the mall or a restaurant. I have had soooo many women (friends!!) make rude remarks like, "I would not want a child that big (11 months) hanging from my boob." Or, "can't women just reserve that sort of activity for home?" I mean I am no ultra granola hippie or anything. I have my Hooter Hider or Bebe Au Lait or whatever and I go to the women's lounge whenever poss. I am not letting a saggy booby droop out for all to see. I am just trying to feed my baby!! Please give me a little respect.
[ Reply | Options ]10.29.09, 06:49 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]Sorry, but the EBF Brigade are not advocating here. I EBF and I cannot stand the sanctimommies on this thread.
[ Reply | Options ]10.29.09, 06:52 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]ITA!
[ Reply | Options ]10.29.09, 06:57 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]FWIW, I formula-fed DB and I have never had a problem with public bf'ing, don't understand why it bothers people. It's just feeding a baby.
[ Reply | Options ]10.29.09, 08:09 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]That is refreshing to hear. I do think that the less educated a person is, the less likely they are to be accepting of a breastfeeding mom. Many of the women on this board sound very educated so this crowd is probably a lot more accepting than average. And this crowd probably includes a lot more women with legitimate reasons for not bf'ing.
[ Reply | Options ]10.29.09, 08:16 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
I bf one db, ff another. I have no issue with bfing in public. I do, however, have issues with coworkers bringing their db to work to feed them DURING meetings. I find this grossly inappropriate. Yet, because it's bfing everyone is too meek to say anything. BF should be allowed, but just as with all things related to childcare, it should not interfere with other people's ability to work or, for example, have a wedding reception (I'm recalling a post a few months back where someone felt it was totally reasonable to bf her db in the center of wedding reception w/o regard for the bride or groom's preference).
[ Reply | Options ]10.29.09, 08:45 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
I didn't want to. Apparently I am extremely lazy and self-centered. C'est la vie.
[ Reply | Options ]10.29.09, 07:14 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]Why didn't you want to?
[ Reply | Options ]10.29.09, 07:15 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]I think she's just joking.
[ Reply | Options ]10.29.09, 11:26 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]no joking. really didn't want to. Know myself and knew it would turn me into a nut case. Also did my research and know that while, yes, bf is better, it's truly not sooo much better (at least where water quality is not an issue) that it was worth turning myself into a nut job.
[ Reply | Options ]10.31.09, 08:21 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
Despite 3 months of feeding, pumping, lactation consultant, etc, I never got enough milk to give even 1 full meal. You can talk all you want about evolution, but DD never would have made it if it hadn't been for formula.
[ Reply | Options ]10.29.09, 07:49 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]I breastfed for three month exclusively. Could not take the medication needed to manage my arthritis and breastfeed at the same time and had already been off the meds for close to 5 years as we struggled to conceive and through the pregnancy. I chose to be able to hold my dd and bottlefeed vs. continuing to breastfeed and be immobile. Which I think was a pretty smart decision though and one that benefited both of us. What's sad is that, because of attitudes like the ones I've read here, I still question my decision.
[ Reply | Options ]10.29.09, 07:55 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]You know, there are plenty of militant ANTI-breastfeeders as well. My MIL never breastfed her kids, and she claims it was because "her body had just been through so much that she didn't want to deal with anything more." But I think she just finds breastfeeding gross; she is very opinionated about how she thinks my decision to bf is unnecessary and inconvenient.
[ Reply | Options ]10.29.09, 08:27 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]I tried to breastfeed my son and couldn't produce enough milk. He lost weight and became jaundiced. It wasn't until I supplemented with formula that he thrived. The pediatrician told me to take fenugreek herb to help with breast milk production and it worked for about 2 days then the milk supply went back down. I was so thankful formula was available! It wasn't for a lack of trying, I was pumping every two hours to try to get the supply up. My grandmother also had trouble producing enough milk so there may be something genetic about it. I just wanted to let you all know that sometimes this just happens, its not due to laziness or lack of love for your children.
[ Reply | Options ]10.30.09, 03:20 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]
OK, let's redo this entire post, but substitute "lets their kids watch TV" or "gets divorced" or for "cannot breast feed." People certainly do get more worked up about this issue than any other. How about: you feed your kid what you want and I'll feed mine what I want??
[ Reply | Options ]10.30.09, 04:29 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]Because then the sanctimommies would collapse from sheer boredom.
[ Reply | Options ]10.30.09, 05:42 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]Because some choices ARE morally superior to others. As a moral relativist, would you have any objection if I beat the crap out of my children, so long as I didn't judge your decision to leave yours unscathed?
[ Reply | Options ]11.03.09, 05:17 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]
This happened to me & insensitive people who think that nothing is the same as breastfeeding can make a new mom feel terrible. In my case, long labor then c-section combined with mastitis (which makes you feel like you have a bad case of the flu) plus a ds with trouble latching on/slow feeder eventually left me a complete basket case. Worked with a lactation consultant etc. Eventually pediatrician, ob/gyn and my famiily all told me to stop breastfeeding. A semi-rested, healthy mom is better for a baby than a sick exhausted breastfeeding one. For baby #2, breastfeeding was incredibly painful -- no one could figure out why but I couldn't help screaming everytime and so pumped for 6 weeks. Baby 3 breastfed no problem -- go figure.
[ Reply | Options ]10.30.09, 06:18 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]Could it be that breastfeeding contributes to post partum depression? How about that for a controversial subject? Breastfeeding moms are more exhausted because they are the only ones who can feed the baby unless you pump. Also, for those moms who can't, they get depressed about it and feel pressure from others. A friend who breastfed one child and not the other says her husband feels closer to the child that wasn't breastfed because he could feed him in the early days too.
[ Reply | Options ]10.30.09, 06:26 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]My lactation consultant was very honest and said 'the hormones associated with bfeeding can help with post partum depression ... but if the process is not going well then it can defnately be a contributing factor'
[ Reply | Options ]10.30.09, 07:29 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]
i tried but produced so little milk the baby was starving. lactation consultant/pumping did not help; no one ever mentioned meds to help; i have no regrets, but more power to those who can --- it think it would have been a lot easier to BF, but it just didn't work for me
[ Reply | Options ]10.30.09, 06:55 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]I never knew there was such a thing until it happened to me. I tried so hard and db had latching problems. Spent hundreds on a lactation consultant who I talked on the phone with every day for the first two months of db's life. Things got better after two weeks, at 8 weeks db started pulling off and screaming at every feeding. Even consultant coudn't figure out what was wrong since I had plenty of milk, carefully watched diet, etc. After two horrendous weeks, I had to give up and switch to bottle feeding. I pumped exclusively for 8 months. After that, my milk ran out on it's own, tried everything and couldn't get supply back up. Db started formula at 10 months and I have made peace that I tried and did the best I could. Good luck to you. I always thought bf-ing was a choice moms made, found out the hard way, it's not always in your control.
[ Reply | Options ]10.30.09, 07:41 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]continued from above...and by the way, I did also have PPD which worsened as my difficulties breastfeeding worsened. I just felt so awful that I couldn't make it work. Eventually I got help from a therapist and started zoloft. I timed my medication so that the least possible amount would get into my milk (since I had a pumping schedule, this wasn't too hard). Zoloft kicked in and I realized most of my depression was hormonal, I started to feel normal and happy again.
[ Reply | Options ]10.30.09, 07:43 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]wow, I could have written this....except I gave up after 3 weeks trying to put db to my breasts. I too had PPD but I didn't seek help (I had scary scary visions of hurting db- throwing him against the wall, hitting him in the head with a hammer) and I was too embarrassed to tell anyone and felt so alone. Felt like a failure for not being able to nurse. DH was working 80 hrs a week, I had no help, no family around. I pumped til 8 wks but it was too exhausting. I also was overproducing milk. I was in severe pain if I didn't pump every 2 hours
[ Reply | Options ]10.30.09, 08:03 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]^^so I literally couldn't leave my house for more than that time (had to use hospital grade pump because otherwise on portable one, it'd take an hour to empty my breasts which were engorged all the time. Honestly those 2 mos were the most miserable of my life and I am mostly angry at what I call breastfeeding propaganda that was shoved down my throat to the point that I believed that formula would almost poison db. The whole thing was so traumatizing that I went straight to formula with dbs 2 and 3 because I didn't want to risk going down that road again
[ Reply | Options ]10.30.09, 08:08 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]this was me, too. at the lc, crying, every day. to this day i believe there is a special place in hell for anyone who works at la leche. the judgy, condescending crap they told me was beyond offensive.
[ Reply | Options ]10.30.09, 08:24 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]exactly....YES, we wouldn't survive as a species if women didn't breastfeed... blah blah blah, .but if I were in some weird time/place where women HAD to bf or their babies would die, my baby would have died. I guess according to La Leche, he just doesn't deserve to be here...survival of the fittest and all. And to say that breastmilk is "SUPERIOR" to formula?? Please, could they think of a better word to make a woman who has problems feel like complete shit? Well, you don't breastfeed, that means you are an INFERIOR mother!
[ Reply | Options ]10.30.09, 08:30 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]i called the lll hotline sobbing, saying i couldn't get db to latch and was going to pump and the woman on the other end of the line said, "what would happen to your baby if you were on a desert island?" as if expressed milk were poison! hey, guess what? i'm NOT on a desert island, b&tch!
[ Reply | Options ]10.30.09, 08:57 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]OMG, my woman fed me a similar line too....honestly I don't know how they can be soooo militant like that, and to take advantage of woman who has just given birth (usually to her 1st db) who is that upset, to not offer some consolation and tell her it's fine as long as db eats something....it's just sick.
[ Reply | Options ]10.30.09, 10:02 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]NP: these stories about LLL are horrifying! it is disgusting that they would treat other women - struggling to bf - like this.
[ Reply | Options ]10.30.09, 11:34 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]
"Superior" is the word choice the American Academy of Pediatrics selected. Take it up with them.
[ Reply | Options ]10.30.09, 05:56 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]of course your baby deserves to be here, but you are right, in terms of survival of the fittest, s/he wouldn't be. Just like lots of people who need treatment for medical conditions wouldn't be. It's a fact, but not meant to be hurtful. But it is a fact.
[ Reply | Options ]10.30.09, 08:26 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]right but when a woman goes in for treatment for breast cancer, she isn't shamed by the medical profession for not growing cancer-free breasts in the 1st place.
[ Reply | Options ]10.31.09, 12:41 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]NP: I had a nurse at Lenox Hill accuse me of intentionally starving my jaundiced 4 d/o. There's plenty of shaming that goes on both ways, IME. I have more sympathy for LLL leaders, who are volunteers, than I do for medical professionals who can't bother to be informed enough to give good advice. And isn't that the root of the problem? we don't provide enough real resources to new mothers, so people have to turn to semi-trained volunteers who are more focused on advocacy that support, and of course what you get from that is going to be hit-or-miss.
[ Reply | Options ]10.31.09, 02:15 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]well, there comes a point when trying to bf that if you db isn't getting enough nutrition, you should give formula vs letting your db go hungry. It's basic common sense. If the technology/help is there, you can use it. I guess LLL is against any sort of reproductive technology too since it's not "natural"
[ Reply | Options ]11.01.09, 08:20 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]
i had flat nipples and baby would not latch --the lac consult was useless--finally after about 10 days we figured out to pump my nipples up first then he would latch-but by then--he was taking formula and was loving it--so i would nurse a bit but he was primarily formula fed..DB #2 had no problems latching--but I was so hard on myself trying to make it work the first time around and to be honest i wish i would have just given up and gotten over it
[ Reply | Options ]10.30.09, 09:07 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]OP: here is what you need to realize: Breastfeeding is a great nutritious way to feed your baby. For some people it becomes too difficult. It is possible to get over that initial "hump" where it hurts and enjoy it, but, if you start to become so upset over it not working out the way you thought it would that it consumes your every thought, it is perfectly fine to feed db expressed breast milk or formula.
[ Reply | Options ]10.30.09, 11:43 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]My friend had such bad post partum, she was a different person and didn't want to even hold her baby.
[ Reply | Options ]10.30.09, 11:49 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]Mine would not latch on...three months of trying did not work. The issue was that thought my breast looked fine as my baby tried to latch, my nipples inverted, like a tease. The baby tired of it. I pumped. I got a really good pump to make me feel better. The breast milk was the most important part in my mind and I still fed her on demand like nursing mom would. It seemed to work. We are very close though she is very independent.
[ Reply | Options ]10.30.09, 01:54 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]It can mean many things, some within one's control and some not, but mostly that so many judgemental and insecure moms will feel as though they have a right to make her feel badly about her decision... These same moms will also try to make her feel badly about the type of food she feeds db, what discipline method she uses, what school dc goes to etc. If you can, ignore the turkeys and find supportive mommy-friends- good luck :>)
[ Reply | Options ]11.01.09, 10:24 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]
[+] I had my first lamaze class today and now totally freaked out about the birth process... 11 replies
- Don't be freaked! Birth was amazing. I loved the Ina Mae Gaskin book on natural childbirth, was very helpful in building confidence about the laboring process. Good luck!...
- I got an epidural and that was so so helpful but doing "natural" is nice too!)...
- do it too. If you are going to try to do natural, don't just do lamaze. There are a lot of better...
Talk : : October 25, 2009
I had my first lamaze class today and now totally freaked out about the birth process and post-birth...please some supportive words.
11 replies [ Reply | Watch | Options ]10.25.09, 07:00 PM [ Flag ]It's rough, let's not sugar coat it. Get the epidural (which will make labor much easier as you go from 4 to 10cm). Pushing is not the "relief" the birthing classes make it out to be, but on the other end, you'll have a cute if wrinkly little baby. :) Recovery for the first month can be tough as well, but you - as have trillions of women before you - will survive it.
[ Reply | Options ]10.25.09, 07:05 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]Relax, it will be fine, I promise. The actual birth is the easiest part of the whole process of becoming a mother to another human being. It may be hard (like my first) or easy (like my second) and the recovery can involve a lot of pain and discomfort for a few days, but millions upon millions of women have done it before you - and then have even done it again! ;) Don't be anxious, I promise you will do great.
[ Reply | Options ]10.25.09, 07:14 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]Don't be freaked! Birth was amazing. I loved the Ina Mae Gaskin book on natural childbirth, was very helpful in building confidence about the laboring process. Good luck!
[ Reply | Options ]10.25.09, 07:29 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]It is a few hours out of your life. I am sorry but the reality is it's done, it's over and then you have a child. I think there's been so much emphasis on the birth (and look, I got all into it, too and got a birth doula and blah blah blah) but anyway, you will be fine, if you need meds, great, if not, great, and so long as you and db are healthy, all is wonderful. (PS For second baby I got an epidural and that was so so helpful but doing "natural" is nice too!)
[ Reply | Options ]10.25.09, 07:47 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]You will be fine. It's not a walk in the park but not nearly as difficult as I was expecting, to tell you the truth. I did get the epidural though which helped hugely.
[ Reply | Options ]10.25.09, 07:49 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]It really will be OK no matter what happens. Ultimately, once the baby is out, the whole process matters a lot less in a day or two.
[ Reply | Options ]10.25.09, 07:50 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]If you get advice from someone who starts telling you she was in labor for 20 hours, blah, blah, blah, epidural didn't work, blah, blah, they ignored my birth plan, blah, puke. RUN away, don't walk. All they really want is to scare you and for you to think they've done something superhuman. The fact is, women have been going through this process for thousands of years with much less to ease process than we have today. You body is BUILT TO DO THIS!!! You WILL do it and you will be ok. Deep breathes. Hugs.
[ Reply | Options ]10.25.09, 08:10 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]Don't worry. Everything will be fine. At the end you will have a beautiful baby. Hundreds of millions of women have done it, you can do it too. If you are going to try to do natural, don't just do lamaze. There are a lot of better books/programs out there. The more you learn the less freaked you will be.
[ Reply | Options ]10.25.09, 10:49 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]It is not that bad. Getting a baby is the best thing in the world. You forget most everything about the delivery after a few months anyway.
[ Reply | Options ]10.25.09, 10:57 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]I am a very modest shy person and before delivering I was freaked about the "nakedness" and the "messiness" of it all. Much to my amazement, I never thought about that once during delivery! Something chemical goes on in your brain and you just focus on getting the baby out. It was not nad at all. Good luck to you. You will be fine!!!!!
[ Reply | Options ]10.25.09, 11:04 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]had epidural for both - a walk in the park. could do it everyday.
[ Reply | Options ]10.26.09, 01:09 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]
[+] Anyone know a natural remedy or aid to Heartburn when pregnant? 16 replies
- Papaya enzyme (papain) is a natural abortifacient -- is can cause spontaneous abortion. I would NOT take it, especially in early pregnancy,...pregnancy. started first thing in the morning and lasted the ENTIRE day. It got so bad that I would even cry sometimes. btw, I had natural childbirth with both kids so I'm no wimp to pain. My son was born with a full head of hair. When the doctor put him on...
Talk : : October 24, 2009
Anyone know a natural remedy or aid to Heartburn when pregnant?
16 replies [ Reply | Watch | Options ]10.24.09, 05:26 PM [ Flag ]Put a peeled potato in a pot of water, bring to boil, reduce temp, let the potato hang out in the water for 10 min. or so, then drink water. This works!
[ Reply | Options ]10.24.09, 05:34 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]just take tums. it's fine. I popped a few tums every night with my first.
[ Reply | Options ]10.24.09, 07:28 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]I found a liquid, minty antacid to be more helpful.Good luck. It sucks right?
[ Reply | Options ]10.27.09, 06:21 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]
Ask your Dr about papaya enzyme tablets -- they are the best.
[ Reply | Options ]10.24.09, 10:57 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]Papaya enzyme (papain) is a natural abortifacient -- is can cause spontaneous abortion. I would NOT take it, especially in early pregnancy, without an MD's okay, and even then, I would check dosage with the MD and make sure he or she is aware that papain is an abortifacient before taking his/her advice.
[ Reply | Options ]10.25.09, 05:11 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]
I found this online works about 50% of the time: 1 tablespoon Apple Cider Vinegar, 1 tablespoon honey, 2 tablespoons hot water. Good luck AR/HB blows.
[ Reply | Options ]10.25.09, 04:27 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]baking soda and water or tums.. If it gets bad you can take zantac or prevacid
[ Reply | Options ]10.25.09, 04:33 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]Sounds weird, but Hot Tamales cinnamon candy worked for me. Had less luck with crystallized Ginger, but a friend swears by it.
[ Reply | Options ]10.25.09, 09:40 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]Is it true that a lot of heartburn means a hairy baby?
[ Reply | Options ]10.27.09, 05:30 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]I suffered so much with heartburn during my first pregnancy. started first thing in the morning and lasted the ENTIRE day. It got so bad that I would even cry sometimes. btw, I had natural childbirth with both kids so I'm no wimp to pain. My son was born with a full head of hair. When the doctor put him on my chest, that's the first thing I noticed!!
[ Reply | Options ]10.27.09, 05:44 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]Not in my case. Had terrible heartburn and dd born with some hair, not much.
[ Reply | Options ]10.27.09, 07:30 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]c'mon... I know we tell the children the baby is "in Mommy's tummy" but you underdstand that it isn't. Right?
[ Reply | Options ]10.27.09, 07:34 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]Your not actually suggesting that pregnancy does not contribute to heartburn are you? There may be more to the whole hair thing than we realize, some amount of embryonic fluid does get pushed back through the placenta into the bloodstream and with it, hair and other debris. It could be that babies with more hair cause more stomach acid to form because there is more foreign debris in the blood stream. Old wive's tales have often been found to be true after scientific testing had advanced enough to properly evaluate it. FWIW, I had a very hairy daughter and had to live on ginger beer and crackers and sleep sitting up during the last trimester.
[ Reply | Options ]10.27.09, 09:44 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]One small study found it to be true. They suggest it could be estrogen. http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/318037/pregnant_mothers_with_heartburn_can.html?cat=25
[ Reply | Options ]10.27.09, 09:56 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]
no. genetics do.
[ Reply | Options ]10.27.09, 07:35 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]
honestly the only think that works for me is zantac. i don't love the idea of taking it, but ob says it's fine and i feel awful otherwise. i took it regularly in third trimester with #1 and am back to it again now at 34 weeks pg with #2.
[ Reply | Options ]10.27.09, 07:41 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]
[+] I am interested in natural childbirth, but cannot afford to take childbirthing course... 25 replies
- didn't take any courses other than the hospital course. Natural childbirth was fine, even though I ended up being induced...."? no books, classes, planning etc. Just do what comes naturally - that would be natural....
- natural and a great experience for me....
- ITA. Tried for natural, after 15+hrs had the epidural. My labor was...read "The Birth Partner". My doula does custom childbirth classes. Mine was about three hours- just what we...
Talk : : October 18, 2009
I am interested in natural childbirth, but cannot afford to take childbirthing course. In NYC, it's about $400-500 for a Bradley course. With baby on the way and hubby currently unemployed, it's not a feasible option right now. Is it possible to figure out ways to manage labor techniques through online resources, books, etc.? Or should I just suck it up and dish out the money for the course? Any insight would be really appreciated!!
25 replies [ Reply | Watch | Options ]10.18.09, 11:27 AM [ Flag ]Believe it or not, billions of women over the course of about 30,000 years have successfully given birth without first taking classes.
[ Reply | Options ]10.18.09, 11:30 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]To be fair, for most of those 30,000 years, women were not giving birth in hospitals where there C-section rate runs around 40%! Just knowing how to resist interventions that are not medically necessary is a big step in natural childbirth.
[ Reply | Options ]10.18.09, 01:31 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]well, and in those 30,000 a lot of them died. i think it is a good idea to take classes for your first as it gives you and your partner a ton of information about health, safety and other important issues.
[ Reply | Options ]10.18.09, 01:39 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]you think they died b/c they didn't know enough about the bradley method?
[ Reply | Options ]10.18.09, 01:43 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]nope, but probably because they didn't have all of the options we have available to us today. the class i took as a first time mom had a lot of information about what to watch out for, signs of pre-term labor, possible interventions (so if they were mentioned during delivery I would know what my options really were).
[ Reply | Options ]10.18.09, 01:47 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
Labor doulas have to do "apprenticships" for free before they get certified - maybe you could find one - sorry I don't know how to go about it - maybe ask your midwife/dr...
[ Reply | Options ]10.18.09, 11:31 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]Read "The Birth Partner" by Peggy Simkim. I found it really helpful (although it would have been more helpful if my DH had read it). We had a labor doula who was awesome, but we didn't take any courses other than the hospital course. Natural childbirth was fine, even though I ended up being induced.
[ Reply | Options ]10.18.09, 11:44 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]Sure. My mom did it, having taken no classes. St Luke's Roosevelt has some low cost classes, including Lamaze, and you could learn some techniques there. Apprentice doulas will often come to your birth for free, because they need the experience, too. I know there is a website where you can connect with doulas, but I can't remember the name... if you start googling, you should be able to find it.
[ Reply | Options ]10.18.09, 12:29 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]I took the class at St Luke's and it was fine. Got me through natural childbirth just fine. also, look on the lamaze website... they have a lot of resources available online.
[ Reply | Options ]10.18.09, 01:18 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
Read a lot of birthing stories. Its a shame that women have to educate themselves to prevent a lot of unnecessary intervention. Read Ina May's "A Guide to Childbirth"
[ Reply | Options ]10.19.09, 09:14 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]wouldn't natural childbirth be "natural"? no books, classes, planning etc. Just do what comes naturally - that would be natural.
[ Reply | Options ]10.19.09, 09:16 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]wow! you're a unhelpful tool.
[ Reply | Options ]11.01.09, 04:39 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]
You can definitely practice on your own to help determine which positions are most comfortable to you, what helps to distract you from pain, etc... in the class we took at realbirth, they had us hold ice cubes for 1-2 minutes (which actually starts to hurt a lot) to help us to figure out useful strategies for coping with pain. it's also helpful to try to figure out if you feel better while standing or sitting, using an exercise ball, etc... I would highly recommend realbirth if you can in any way swing it (or call them to see if they can give you a reduced rate). the class was really interesting and helped me and dh to prepare for and deal with labor and natural birth.
[ Reply | Options ]10.19.09, 09:30 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]The birth book by dr. Sears and his wife is pretty crunchy.
[ Reply | Options ]10.19.09, 09:30 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]I don't think you need a class. Anything can happen when you go into labor. All the stuff I practiced and read really did me no good when actual labor came on. Good luck. And give yourself the epidural option.
[ Reply | Options ]10.19.09, 09:35 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]A course is useless. Some people labor quickly and can withstand more pain than others. I think it's really out of your control. Breathing doesn't help the pain. I decided I'd go w/o drugs for as long as I could - I needed and wanted an epidural, and had a really pleasant birth and 10 pound baby. Looking back, being in excruciating pain would have really ruined the birth experience for me as I hate pain. As it was, the doctor spent more time sewing me up (I tore naturally) than I spent pushing. But all the classes in the world would not have changed the pain imo. But I'm sure there are plenty of good books out there if you want to learn the pain management tactics they teach. GL! (And despite everything, I really LOVED the whole process of labor - except for the C-section I needed for my 3rd dc!) That really was miserable.
[ Reply | Options ]10.19.09, 09:40 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]ITA. Tried for natural, after 15+hrs had the epidural. My labor was stalled way before the epidural. Had a very healthy 7.6lb boy with a 9 Apgar score. In retrospect I wish I hadn't worried about the labor and focused instead on dealing with a newborn.
[ Reply | Options ]10.19.09, 09:54 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]
Check with your insurer. My insurer (not in NYC) actually covered the cost of a set of hypnobirth classes and a midwife! There's also a book-with-CD called Hypnobirth, forget who wrote it, which went with our course but you can buy or find in the library. I found it completely worth it... only learned one technique ("balloon breathing") but it took me through everything but the last half hour of childbirth, which was natural and a great experience for me.
[ Reply | Options ]10.19.09, 09:44 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]Since your husband probably has extra time, have him read "The Birth Partner". My doula does custom childbirth classes. Mine was about three hours- just what we needed. Also, she has a sliding scale and runs a volunteer doula program, so you might want to contact her for that. Her website now is doularama.com. She can probably give you lots of help even if you don't hire her. That's just the way she is. Good luck!
[ Reply | Options ]10.20.09, 04:11 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]I forgot to tell you that the doula's name is Rina Crane. She's lovely.
[ Reply | Options ]10.20.09, 04:12 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
Total waste of time and money. If you are VERY VERY invested in going meds-free get a birth doula. I did that for my first and whatever, realized that was insane to be so rigid about a "birth plan" -- second baby I just went to the hospital, realizing the birht process is 100 percent out of your hands and enjoyed myself and the experience a billion times more.
[ Reply | Options ]10.20.09, 04:32 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]Courses are useless, just read up online, and at library...
[ Reply | Options ]10.20.09, 04:33 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]I agree that its totally possibl to go natural without having taken a long course. How far along are you? If early in your pregnancy, I would recommend switching to a midwife if you can find one covered by your insurance. Same benefits as a doula (maybe more) but the cause would be covered by insurance. Really, I think the MOST important factor is having the people around you support/respect your decision to do it naturally.
[ Reply | Options ]11.01.09, 04:57 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]^^^ cause = cost
[ Reply | Options ]11.01.09, 04:58 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]
Look up breathing techniques. I breathed in for a count of four and out for a count of 8. When contractions became harder, as I counted in my head, I made short little breaths over the same "four in - 8 out". (In-in-in-in - out x 8) very short bursts of air to mark each count. Practice which ever style you choose. Then when you get early contractions practice more. You'll be ready for the bigger one. My nurse said i was surprisingly calm through all the labor. Long breaths work in the beginning but short breaths work for contractions 5/6 minutes or less apart.
[ Reply | Options ]11.01.09, 05:48 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]
[+] upset. ds took something from his teacher's desk without permission. i knew he'd be... 53 replies
- ^^whoops. mispost. meant for the natural childbirth post....
Talk : : October 15, 2009
upset. ds took something from his teacher's desk without permission. i knew he'd be embarrassed to take it back so i wrapped it in a bag and put a note on the teacher explaining what happened. i asked teacher to reinforce the lesson of non stealing by telling ds that he can't take things from the desk. and i asked teacher to send a note back indicating he had gotten my note and the bag. i didn't get a note back. ds insists he put the bag on the teachers desk. ds is not reliable but i do believe him in this instance. so why couldn't the teacher take 60 seconds and write a note?
53 replies [ Reply | Watch | Options ]10.15.09, 07:18 PM [ Flag ]maybe she didn't like the idea of following through with your suggested verbal admonishment as a punishment. maybe she wants him to have to clean desks or something. or maybe she was just too busy.
[ Reply | Options ]10.15.09, 07:23 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]she's a professional. i'd be open to suggestions on how she wants to handle it. but if you have a kid in your class stealing, i'd think you'd want to address it somehow.
[ Reply | Options ]10.15.09, 07:24 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]So your kid stole something from the teacher, but because she didn't respond to your note, she's now the bad guy. Riiiiiiiiiiiiiight.
[ Reply | Options ]10.15.09, 07:29 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]NP Then be a parent and set up a meeting with her to discuss. Stealing is not a little thing. Why are you passing notes to each other? What are you in, study hall?
[ Reply | Options ]10.16.09, 06:15 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]
Why didn't you take the time to return the item yourself and briefly speak to the teacher. I know, you were too busy running your fortune 500 company or 8 months pregnant, baking 900 cookies while on your elliptical trainer and reading the bible.
[ Reply | Options ]10.15.09, 07:25 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]let it go. just let it go.
[ Reply | Options ]10.15.09, 07:33 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
Call her. I'd guess that she hasn't noticed the bag on her desk yet.
[ Reply | Options ]10.15.09, 07:36 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]Exactly. Call her. He's your kid, not hers. Better yet, call her and make an appt to sit and talk to her about your child. Stealing from a teacher's desk is a really big deal. BTW, what did you do to punish your child at home? And how old is he?
[ Reply | Options ]10.16.09, 06:06 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]
I'm a teacher: it's probably (a) she didn't see the bag or the note or (b) she meant to reply, but didn't (or wrote the note, but never got around to putting it into his bag). It was rainy today, the DC probably didn't go outside (which meant that she had to plan for extra, unaccounted classroom time) and it's a busy time of year (most schools have curriculum night or parent-teacher conferences or other big events coming up soon).
[ Reply | Options ]10.15.09, 07:40 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]1) Your kid stole something, so he's not the most honest child in town 2) HE claimed to have put the bag on the desk--and you "knew he'd be embarrassed to take it back...". Pretty clear what happened here, imo.
[ Reply | Options ]10.15.09, 07:49 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]What did he take?
[ Reply | Options ]10.15.09, 07:56 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]Um, you can't fault the teacher for this. Why do you expect a note right away? Why assume your ds is telling you the truth? Your ds clearly knows he'd be in trouble.
[ Reply | Options ]10.15.09, 08:09 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]op: it's unfair of me to do to this teacher b/c i just realized i'm reflecting my frustrations from last year's teacher onto this year's teacher. ds had a very unresponsive teacher last year and she would never give feedback or let you know what was going on and then out of the blue she called me one day and ranted on my answering machine that she has "had it" with dc b/c of his bad behavior. i asked if she'd send a note home if he misbehaved and she said she'd try but doesn't have time. i'd send in notes periodically and never get a response. so yes, the above posters may be correct in saying ds never gave it in. but it's more likely that the teacher never saw it or the teacher didn't respond.
[ Reply | Options ]10.15.09, 08:34 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]If your kid is in public school, the teacher likely has 28 or 29 other kids to deal with and doesn't have time to write notes. If you're so very concerned about your kid stealing from the teacher, why didn't you get on the phone to her? Trusting a kid who steals is a little odd.
[ Reply | Options ]10.15.09, 08:38 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]i wasn't expecting a big letter. just a little something like "i got your note" so that i'd know it was returned. obviously it didn't happen that way. so i'm frustrated. when we went to the parent orientation, the teacher intimated that she didn't want to get phone calls over every little thing and that we should send a note. so sending the note was definitely the correct first step. i'll have to follow through tomorrow.
[ Reply | Options ]10.15.09, 08:42 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]I really don't think you should be irritated so soon. Call her or at the drop off or pick up, ask about it. Email.
[ Reply | Options ]10.15.09, 08:46 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]will do. also (just to clarify), i'm upset about the whole situation - that ds took something, that he at first lied about it, and that i didn't get same-day feedback. i'm just upset about the whole thing.
[ Reply | Options ]10.15.09, 08:49 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]Little kids do weird things. I would not worry about it. But if he was in trouble last year for bad behavior all year... maybe the school is not a good fit for him or he's going through something at home? Can you find out what's bothering him? Maybe get help if needed?
[ Reply | Options ]10.15.09, 09:29 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
he's 5. get a grip!
[ Reply | Options ]10.15.09, 08:43 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]how do you know he's 5? and who are you telling to get a grip?
[ Reply | Options ]10.15.09, 08:50 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]Sounds like you should get control of your kid, op. You say he stole the item but that it's impossible that he would lie about returning it. I feel sorry for the teacher.
[ Reply | Options ]10.17.09, 07:45 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]op: it's not at all impossible that he'd lie about something. it was just the way he said it that i actually believed him. he said he gets to school before the teacher does and so he put it on her desk. i couldn't be completely sure, but i was pretty sure he was telling the truth. the only question was why didn't the teacher respond, and the answer was either she didn't feel it was necessary, or she didn't have time (which is pretty much the same as not feeling it's necessary) or she didn't see it.
[ Reply | Options ]10.17.09, 07:50 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
Email the teacher. Say I'm not sure that you got my note..., but I wanted to follow up b/c my ds's behavior concerned me and I wanted to make sure you were aware of it too since it affected you. Something to that effect and offer to discuss over the phone b/c this sounds like something potentially important to resolve all around. Also, she may not have responded b/c she's trying to figure out what to do / say.
[ Reply | Options ]10.15.09, 08:33 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]thanks. i don't have any email address for the teacher. i think i'll write a note on ds's homework so i know the teacher will see it.
[ Reply | Options ]10.15.09, 08:35 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
i think the embarrassment of returning a stolen item is a very appropriate consequence for stealing. just my $.02.
[ Reply | Options ]10.15.09, 08:39 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]Dumb question - what is a DS that all of these kids are begging for?
[ Reply | Options ]10.15.09, 10:08 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]You know teachers have REALLY busy days, and have to deal with many children. You just have to deal with one. Why not give him/her a call and ask if they got the note?
[ Reply | Options ]10.16.09, 04:26 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]So your DS stole something and you're pissed at the teacher that she did't respond to your demand right away to respond to your note. Good grief.
[ Reply | Options ]10.16.09, 05:45 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]Embarassment alone is not enough discipline for stealing from a teacher. Who thinks that? Is he 5 or was that not the OP? We're not talking about a fight with another child that who know which kid was in the wrong, or what provoked it. We are talking about actively disobeying the authority figure in class. That deserves a punishment at home. Be reasonably strict now to nip it in the bud.
[ Reply | Options ]10.16.09, 06:11 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]op: he is five and i have *no idea* how the other np new that. kind of freaks me out and now i'm having all sorts of conspiracy or big brother theories.
[ Reply | Options ]10.17.09, 08:09 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
so now the teacher has to teach morals too?
[ Reply | Options ]10.16.09, 06:36 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]of course a teacher should address morals. especially where it pertains to the classroom.
[ Reply | Options ]10.17.09, 07:35 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
op: just an update for those who followed this post. i sent in a note on ds's homework, just asking if the item was returned. teacher wrote back "yes" and signed her name. so i'm satisfied. now i'm just hoping ds has learned his lesson.
[ Reply | Options ]10.17.09, 06:48 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]sounds like it ended well! I'm sure teacher probably didn't think it was such a big deal is all.
[ Reply | Options ]10.17.09, 07:34 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]thanks. probably not. in retrospect even i don't think it was a huge deal.
[ Reply | Options ]10.17.09, 07:39 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]I'd be very concerned if my 5 yo was swiping the teacher's (or anyone else's) stuff.
[ Reply | Options ]10.17.09, 07:53 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]op: i know of one incident last year where he "found" snack and brought it home. after asking about it several times, he finally 'fessed up that he "found" it in someone's cubby and wanted it. so when he came home last week with food from his teacher's desk, i was upset b/c i think one time is excusable but twice is more worrisome. and ds absolutely adores his teacher this year so i thought if she said something it would really reinforce what we were telling him at home. but then not knowing if the teacher even got it was a little frustrating. although in retrospect it wasn't exactly urgent, other than the thought of some fruit rotting somewhere in a bag with my note attached to it.
[ Reply | Options ]10.17.09, 08:04 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
What did he steal?
[ Reply | Options ]10.17.09, 07:42 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]it'll sound stupid. but he took some fruit that apparently his teacher brings in for her own snack.
[ Reply | Options ]10.17.09, 07:46 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]sounds like he's a thief
[ Reply | Options ]10.18.09, 12:41 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]ouch. that's a tad harsh.
[ Reply | Options ]10.18.09, 12:48 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]np How's that?
[ Reply | Options ]10.18.09, 01:17 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]nnp: Are you kidding? A kid takes a piece of fruit one time, and he's a thief? Almost all kids go through some kind of phase where they steal something. It's a learning moment, and it usually stops there.
[ Reply | Options ]10.18.09, 01:27 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]ita. i wouldn't label a kid under 10 as a thief or a liar or any other serious label like that. kids have very little impulse control. so they cheat or take things that don't belong to them or they don't tell the truth when it's not in their immediate best interest. i wouldn't at all say that that makes them cheaters or thieves or liars. maybe it's just semantics.
[ Reply | Options ]10.18.09, 01:42 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
funny how we need to spend money to learn to take a course to do things without medical intervention.
[ Reply | Options ]10.18.09, 12:38 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]^^whoops. mispost. meant for the natural childbirth post.
[ Reply | Options ]10.18.09, 12:39 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
Did he steal her cell phone? If so, HOW DO YOU EXPECT HER TO CALL YOU?!?!
[ Reply | Options ]10.18.09, 01:08 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]?? i didn't expect her to call me. op.
[ Reply | Options ]10.18.09, 01:15 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]It was a joke. Seriously, as a teacher I find your type to be annoying. Especially so early in the school year. You think we have time to sit and correspond with every parents little wish and demand ASAP? I don't have time to go to the bathroom all day, let alone reply that your child gave in an item he stole that you needed acknowledgment I received, especially when you say you can't trust him in the first place. I am willing to bet the parent already hates you, which is why you got a 1-word answer after annoying her for the second time about this stupidity.
[ Reply | Options ]10.18.09, 01:18 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]NP: Wow, you don't sound like a very nice teacher. You know what? I taught for a while. And the parents who concerned me were the ones who didn't care enough to deal with a child who stole something at all. And they were in the majority. I certainly would not have been upset by a parent who was trying to make sure that her child learned a lesson. Jeez.
[ Reply | Options ]10.18.09, 01:29 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]op: i think i'm beating a dead horse here but i did want to respond to your post. i'd rather my ds's teacher not find me annoying but that's not my primary concern right now. i think ds has what can grow into a serious problem and i need to address it asap. i thought it would be helpful to have reinforcement from the teacher and i asked her to give it. i sent a note b/c the teacher specified at the beginning of the year that the best way to reach her is by sending a note. i wanted an immediate response b/c there was the chance that ds never returned the package. i was pretty sure that wasn't the case, but i did need some confirmation. i have no problem with the one word response. i wasn't expecting a formal letter. a lot of posters here pointed out to me how much busier the teacher is than i realize and i thank them for pointing it out to me. either way, i hope ds learned his lesson and hopefully the real problem here - that ds took something without permission - is fixed.
[ Reply | Options ]10.18.09, 04:56 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
as parent of another kindergartner in PS, I appreciate that you care enough to want to discipline your ds. My own ds has been on the other end, with other kids stealing his lunch (the hot lunch from the school so it's not like he has special treats) and it's very distressing for a parent to hear about.
[ Reply | Options ]10.18.09, 05:31 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]op: i think it's very normal at this age to have kids taking things. they have very little impulse control and the classroom gets so busy that the teachers really aren't watching every kid every second. i think i got flamed b/c it sounded like i was demanding a certain behavior on the part of the teacher.
[ Reply | Options ]10.18.09, 05:42 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
[+] Trying for a natural childbirth with Dr. Friedman at Spring OB/GYN (with delivery at ... 7 replies
- is on call. Since you're interested in natural childbirth, you could also try the midwife there....things so far. I've mentioned having a natural childbirth with her, and she seems supportive of...and get the impression they're supportive of natural (but, like most doctors, only so long as...smoothly). this is #2 for me, had natural for #1 with a different practice....
- c-section though, so can't speak to the natural childbirth aspect of your question....
Talk : : October 15, 2009
Trying for a natural childbirth with Dr. Friedman at Spring OB/GYN (with delivery at NYU Tisch). Does anyone have any experience with any of the doctors at Spring?
7 replies [ Reply | Watch | Options ]10.15.09, 09:01 AM [ Flag ]Do you like her =
[ Reply | Options ]10.15.09, 04:24 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]I really like her. I've had such a positive experience with her thus far. She is patient and warm, and I really like the fact that she always, always makes a personal call with test results. I haven't met the other doctors yet, but I've heard good things so far. I've mentioned having a natural childbirth with her, and she seems supportive of that, but I wanted to hear people's personal experiences with that. I may try the midwife at that practice, but the midwife only works MF 9-5, so if you deliver outside that time frame, then you'll end up with one of the doctors anyway.
[ Reply | Options ]10.16.09, 10:49 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]Really? I could be remembering this wrong, but I thought they told me that the midwife made it to something like 80% of the births of women who requested her care. In any case, I had a positive experience w/ all of the drs in the group, just liked some better than others. I ended up w/ a c-section though, so can't speak to the natural childbirth aspect of your question.
[ Reply | Options ]10.16.09, 11:40 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]
Love Dr. Friedman -- I consider her to be one of the best drs I've ever had. NYU is another story, but my good experience w/ the practice made it worth it. Make sure you're comfortable with the practice overall, though, as you'll start rotating around to every dr. there after 20 weeks and you'll deliver with whoever is on call. Since you're interested in natural childbirth, you could also try the midwife there. GL!
[ Reply | Options ]10.15.09, 05:44 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]exactly. your chance of actually delivering with dr. friedman is really only about 20%. i'm using spring too and get the impression they're supportive of natural (but, like most doctors, only so long as things progress relatively smoothly). this is #2 for me, had natural for #1 with a different practice.
[ Reply | Options ]10.16.09, 10:58 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]
Dr. Friedman and Dr. Maldonado are TERRIFIC!!! Bonnie Yim, the midwife, is also a real gem. Dodson royally sucks.
[ Reply | Options ]10.16.09, 11:35 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]I had a great experience w/ Dr. Dodson -- she was one of the reasons I was sad to leave this practice.
[ Reply | Options ]10.16.09, 12:21 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
[+] Would love to hear real women experiences with birth..I am about to give birth to my ... 15 replies
- my experience was Birthing From Withing. Not scary but just real. The other book I loved was the birth stories in Adventures In Natural Childbirth even though some of them had epidurals. Your anxiety is totally normal but we have been very sucessful as a species and you...will give you a good idea of what can possibly happen: of 3: 2 natural (not by choice), 1 epidural. Worst pain I ever experienced--couldn't believe how much it...
Talk : : October 08, 2009
Would love to hear real women experiences with birth..I am about to give birth to my first and I'm so nervous and scared about the birthing experience and then how you feel afterward. How hard are those first few weeks at home alone with baby? Do you really ever sleep? How much pain are you really in..any real stories and advice is appreciated.
15 replies [ Reply | Watch | Options ]10.08.09, 07:18 AM [ Flag ]a kind of amnesia sets in after, so however bad it is, you forget!
[ Reply | Options ]10.08.09, 07:19 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]totally agree.
[ Reply | Options ]10.08.09, 09:58 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]
everyone is so different. best of luck to you... the outcome is worth it. you will be in a daze first few months - and nervous - but it will all come together and soon you will be the one giving advice
[ Reply | Options ]10.08.09, 07:21 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]if you can afford help, go for it, esp. in the early months.
[ Reply | Options ]10.08.09, 07:25 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]Re: the pain -- for me, the epidural was very very nice. No pain after that, and afterwards I was just so happy not to be pregnant anymore: felt like a ballet dancer.
[ Reply | Options ]10.08.09, 07:27 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]^^ oops -- was going to add that the actual experience of birth and even those first few weeks at home is so short and ultimately not so important, considering that you get to keep the kid for 18 years. Like so many things, it seems like a much bigger deal before you've been through it. I was so scared beforehand; afterwards I couldn't wait to do it again.
[ Reply | Options ]10.08.09, 07:29 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]
I thought the only book that acurately described my experience was Birthing From Withing. Not scary but just real. The other book I loved was the birth stories in Adventures In Natural Childbirth even though some of them had epidurals. Your anxiety is totally normal but we have been very sucessful as a species and you will soon join the ranks of women who have gone through this right of passage. Good luck it is a real challenge but just try to stay out of your bodies way.
[ Reply | Options ]10.08.09, 07:29 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]If you can get past the hippy-trippy vibe, I totally recommend reading Ina May's Guide to Childbirth. Half the book is birth stories from woman who all had babies without any kind of drugs at all, and the other half is information about childbirth. Even though I did use drugs (epidural), the book was hugely helpful to me in helping me get over fear of childbirth. I was able to go into it relatively relaxed and excited and not totally freaked out, which I think led to having a good birth experience overall. Most birth stories out there (at least in the media) are all horror shows. It was great to read real stories about women who did it - without drugs at all - that were positive.
[ Reply | Options ]10.08.09, 07:31 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]Here's my story. Baby came 5 weeks early, water breaking to birth was only 3 hours so no time for drugs. It hurt and it was hard to move afterward, but I was okay with ibuprofen. The baby sleeps a ton the first few days. The first weeks were a blur. Definitely very little sleep but I slept when the baby slept. I did not want help, I liked being by myself with the baby or with dh and the baby. Good luck!
[ Reply | Options ]10.08.09, 07:40 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]Go on line and check out birth stories.
[ Reply | Options ]10.08.09, 09:11 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]Here is my very honest story: I had a surprise c/s with #1 after pushing for many hours. I had an epi and it was the best thing in the world. the recovery wasn't terrible even with an infection. the first 6 weeks were the worst of my life I think. I was miserable, depressed and overwhelmed and had an awful time with breastfeeding. it got better. my unsolicited advice would be not to expect to be filled with sunshine and bliss afterward, and you won't be disappointed or feel bad that you aren't living up to everyone's expectations of what motherhood should be. I wish someone had told me that I wasn't a horrible mother if I wasn't happy all the time after my oldest was born. If you are blissful then that will be wonderful! it gets better than it is the first weeks. good luck to you.
[ Reply | Options ]10.08.09, 10:10 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]sorry I realize that sounds negative and i didn't mean to scare you! I have 2 more now and very sleep deprived again! ;) my point was that no one told me I *might* have a hard time with the adjustment after the birth of my oldest. I wish I had known it was normal and I wouldn't have felt so bad about not having a picture perfect experience. it gets easier and it really is worth all the worst of it. best wishes for an easy delivery!
[ Reply | Options ]10.08.09, 10:18 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]
Well it's not pretty but woman have been doing it for thousands of years so that's a good thing. You will be surprised at how much a woman's body and mind can take when she has to. Labor for 18 hours, delivered dd (but also tore really bad), extremely painful for the first week while the tear healed. Baby did not want to BF so we reluctantly went with formula, but despite everything I will do it again so how bad could it be :)
[ Reply | Options ]10.08.09, 10:18 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]I'm terrified of this too. I've found that this UB doesn't lend itself to honest descriptions of the pain of childbirth. This thread at Indiemoms is pretty graphic and will give you a good idea of what can possibly happen: http://kvetch.indiebride.com/index.php?t=msg&th=19223&start=0&rid=715&S=279d75f83cb6a77ac88f1b4dbae2570f
[ Reply | Options ]10.08.09, 10:22 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]Mother of 3: 2 natural (not by choice), 1 epidural. Worst pain I ever experienced--couldn't believe how much it hurt. Being home not so bad as husband with me 2 weeks with 1st. Breastfeeding took a good month to be totally fine. Key with 1st baby: have somebody you feel comfortable with (husband, mother, etc.) with you after birth. Don't be home alone! After 1st month, you'll be fine.
[ Reply | Options ]10.08.09, 10:54 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]
[+] Is natural childbirth worth it? Ideally I would like a natural, pitocin & epidural-fr... 41 replies
- there is no evidence that natural birth incerases bonding, promtoes better breastfeeding, makes the...it gets to be too much. Read Pregnancy, Childbirth and the Newborn. It explains everything without judgement....in Africa with fistulas what they think of natural childbirth....
- natural childbirth is EXTREMELY painful.i did it. what planet...
Talk : : October 07, 2009
Is natural childbirth worth it? Ideally I would like a natural, pitocin & epidural-free childbirth. On the one hand, if issues come up, I want to trust my doctor's advice. On the other hand, I have the impression that a natural childbirth does not just "happen" - you have to be committed and prepared. Any thoughts or resources (even better) to help me decide how much to push for natural?
41 replies [ Reply | Watch | Options ]10.07.09, 01:34 PM [ Flag ]i had naturla for my 2d baby.my first was induced adn after a few hours i got the epidural. If I had achoice, i'd do natural again in aheartbeat. That said, it is much more likely to happen if you prepare yoursefl adn make sure you have suport form the profesionals aroudn you. for my first, the L&D nurse did nto coach at all and despite my saying i did't want one, asked if i was ready for teh epi every five minutes. with my 2d, i was at a different hospital and everyone was cool with my choice and helpful. There is rareyl a medical reason for an epidural (assuming a vaginal delivery). there may be for a c/s, or for pitocin -- which IME makes it more likely you will have an epi. so its not usually about trusting your docs unless you are having a really long labor.
[ Reply | Options ]10.07.09, 01:39 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]OP: thank you for your response. and the main benefit to going natural?
[ Reply | Options ]10.07.09, 01:43 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]it was faster. i felt way better afterwards. i felt that i understood what was happening while it was happening. i labored mainly at home -- i wasn't in a bed with an iv and a monitor strapped on. Pushing was for sure easier. with the epi, labor happened to me. without it, I did it.
[ Reply | Options ]10.07.09, 01:47 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]all second babies are faster. labor is something your body does to you, not the epidural
[ Reply | Options ]10.07.09, 01:49 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]i'm sure that was part of it. look, i don't think epidurals are bad. i think it helped with my first labor. but having done both,i know i preferred going without. That is all.
[ Reply | Options ]10.07.09, 01:52 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
I'm sure I'll get flamed for this opinion, but I had one kid natural, one kid epidural. I really thought the pain involved in the natural birth was terrifying and nearly unbearable and the whole experience was really just unnecessary. It took so much longer for me personally to recover because you are so exhausted from the labor, and was so traumatized that I had trouble bonding with the baby. With the epidural I rested and napped through a lot of the labor, and the moment db was born I was engaging with her, kissing her, nursing her, etc. It was so much more fun. So there. That was my experience. Not what the natural birth industry says happens, but what happened to me.
[ Reply | Options ]10.07.09, 01:41 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]OP: I appreciate this response. I basically started second-guessing my "go natural" idea when I talked to friends who recently gave birth. One had feelings very much like the ones you express.
[ Reply | Options ]10.07.09, 02:25 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]My experience too! I think the epi does what it is supposed to do IF you get it when you are supposed to get it, i.e. at the beginning of labor. If you wait too long, you'll be groggy, etc.
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[ Reply | Options ]10.08.09, 10:32 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
worth what? the bragging rights?
[ Reply | Options ]10.07.09, 01:45 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]OP: this is what i am trying to figure out. at first, i just thought "i'll go natural" but lately i'm not sure what the advantages are. i guess i'll keep reading up...
[ Reply | Options ]10.07.09, 01:56 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]this board is not supportive of natural in general. so i'd look elsewhere to get information to help you in the decision.
[ Reply | Options ]10.07.09, 02:07 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]there is no evidence that natural birth incerases bonding, promtoes better breastfeeding, makes the baby better in any way. Epidurals if not given ridiculously early do not slwo down teh labor process. they do not incerase c-section rate (though induction tiself will). No reason not to get an epidural if you don't like pain.
[ Reply | Options ]10.07.09, 02:13 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]Also, epidurals make you really puffy and they pump you full of liquid when you have them-- they are NO picnic either. Can complicated breastmilk coming in too. Don't forget about side effects of epidurals and mine only worked on one side! SUCKED! And they stuck me 5 times to find a good spot because my back was so tense from the back labor.
[ Reply | Options ]10.07.09, 02:39 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]I had done a lot of research and while epidurals block the pain they also block the euphoria rush you get after giving birth when you have a rush of oxytocin. before my epi I had the greatest euphoria in between contractions. I literally felt like I was on heroine or something. It was So amazing. Went away the second I got the epidural. Want to do natural next time to keep that rush going!
[ Reply | Options ]10.07.09, 02:42 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]Had completely natural childbirth and ABSOLUTELY no euphoria. Don't count on that one.
[ Reply | Options ]10.09.09, 08:19 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]
I've given birth once and was induced and had an epidural. It all went swimmingly. I was in labor for 6 hours, pushed 12 times over 20 minutes and my beautiful Harry was out. I'm pregnant with my second and plan on an epidural and being induced if the situation calls for it. Every natural childbirth story I've heard from friends involved ungodly amounts of labor....some didn't mind, others did. I guess it depends on your pain threshold and your feeling towards drugs. I'm a "better living through chemistry" kinda gal. I do not feel as though I had any less of a birth experience because I anesthesized(sp?) the pain. good luck with your decision.
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[ Reply | Options ]10.08.09, 10:27 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
I think the fact is that every labor is different. Some labors will stall w an epi and others won't. Some people can handle pitocin wo epi and others can't. Some labors go fast and it's painful for a short time. Other labors go slowly and the pain is exhausting and the woman needs relief if she is going to ever get to the end of it. Some women can push even w an epi and others can't. I am not a "fan" of going natural, but I am a believer that it is better ultimately. I think moving around during labor and being able to push in various position si beneficial. I think the medicine from the epi DOES affect the baby in the early weeks. That all being said, I did not choose to go natural and I don't think that all women are capable of it - whether due to their "personality" or due to the circumstances of their labors.
[ Reply | Options ]10.07.09, 02:15 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]^^^... I don't think that all women are capable of it - whether due to their "personality" or due to the circumstances of their labors.
[ Reply | Options ]10.07.09, 02:16 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
One way to give birth is not better than another-- maybe more ideal for a patient, sure. I planned on natural all the way, practiced, did classes, etc. I was induced with low fluid the day before my due date. So without warning I had pitocin coursing thru my veins and couldn't do any of the labor positions I had practiced. It was intense as hell and I last 15 hours without an epidural! DD turned face up and so I started having back labor and then the game was over. The contractions were terrible but managable because you get breaks, but pitocin is a bitch! So I am actually lucky that I didn't end up with a C-section because I wasn't progressing because of her position. So i got the epidural and rested and 3 hours later I pushed for 1 hour. It was a great birth, not what I had "planned" but they never are. your baby will come how it's supposed to come. My advice: Don't get epi too early-- wait until you are 5 cms and labor is going on its own. Too early and you might have complications and end up with a C. I found labor to be exciting and challenging and I was completely in my body and it was truly amazing. Once I had the epi, I was very rational and it was entirely different (but not bad). GL!
[ Reply | Options ]10.07.09, 02:35 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]^and i will also add that for next baby, I plan on going natural! I want to labor at home as much as possible. But, again, every labor and baby is different!
[ Reply | Options ]10.07.09, 02:37 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
I had an accidental natural birth for my newborn. It really hurt obviously. It felt like my cervix was engulfed in flames. And pushing sucks...you can feel the ripping as the baby is pulled out. At the same time, it wasn't unbearable. I felt perfectly fine after. I didn't have to wait for any painkillers to wear off. Still, I would opt for an epidural next time. If for any reason you need a c-section, you are already medicated. If you are unsure, go somewhere that you are able to change your mind if it gets to be too much. Read Pregnancy, Childbirth and the Newborn. It explains everything without judgement. Also the altdotlife forum has many posters who have had natural births
[ Reply | Options ]10.07.09, 03:29 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]I did natural for the first two and pitocin/epidural for the third. I preferred the natural - for me, the labors were not that long the pain was manageable with the Lamaze techniques I had learned, and I felt better afterwards much faster with the natural than than with the pitocin/epidural. But as everyone has said, every labor is different. I would try for natural but if it gets too long/painful/complicated, don't beat yourself up if you need more medical intervention.
[ Reply | Options ]10.07.09, 03:33 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]Yes, if you like a challenge - the pain unrelenting. The reward is that you feel invincible afterwards - every time you think about it - which is amazing. Immediately after it's disturbing but that fades and I am so glad I did it. Could not have done it without a doula (she will help you to stay home for as long as possible which worked really well for me). Best advice I got early in pregnancy was that if I had an 'open mind' about NOT having epi - I likely would have one. The only way to do it is, as you say, to be committed and prepared. Talk to others, read the Ina May book, consider a doula.
[ Reply | Options ]10.07.09, 04:07 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]My ds was natural, no painkillers or meds, we used hypnobirthing. The hypnobirthing doula was with me and dh helping her too. You kind of retrain how you experience the pain so it's not felt as pain any more and then the body does its thing, no pushing. It was incredible. 5 hour labor which I'm told is pretty short for first child.
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[ Reply | Options ]10.08.09, 10:27 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
I went natural. My labor was unusual bc it was short - only 9 hrs start to finish. I was early (4 wks) and I didn't even know I was in labor for 4 hrs or so. It felt like bad period cramps or stomach upset (I also had to go #2 a lot), but it honestly was not that bad. I also walked back and forth a lot, changed positions etc. When I got to the hospital I was already 8 cm and I didn't have to be monitored continuously or anything. I only had to push for 3 contractions. So when dd came out I was still really energetic, could nurse right away, get up and walk around to the maternity room, etc. It was really great, I would recommend to anyone. (Note, I actually could not have had the epidural even if I had wanted because of my blood thinning meds).
[ Reply | Options ]10.07.09, 05:37 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]OP: Thank you everyone who replied! I really appreciate the feedback. I have a lot to think about and some reading to do...
[ Reply | Options ]10.07.09, 07:13 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]I chose natural childbirth with both of my children and would not change a thing. As others above have said, it is indeed one of the most empowering and amazing experiences of a woman's life. My midwife and the staff at St. Luke's Roosevelt birthing center are awesome! Both my dd's were born in the morning (1am and 8:30am) and in both instances I was home by dinner time the same day. The recovery time is a lot faster when you're not sore from injection sites, numb or swollen from excess IV fluids.
[ Reply | Options ]10.08.09, 11:07 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]Also, freedom to labor and birth in the position of your choosing is key. A natural birth with a doc who is at best, humoring you, but forces you to be on your back, is not the same as with a midwife or doc who allows you and your support person(s) to determine what works best for your body.
[ Reply | Options ]10.08.09, 11:10 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]what does labor feel like in comparison to bad menstrual cramps?
[ Reply | Options ]10.08.09, 11:35 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]i'm the first responder up there. that is exactly how it starts, then they got longer and more painful. For me, the only really awful part was transition, because then I stopped really getting a break in between the contrax. however, I also knew I was close to the end which made it doable.
[ Reply | Options ]10.08.09, 11:38 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]Yes, in the very beginning and then it feels like someone is ripping your stomach open and wedging a crowbar in between your vertebrae.
[ Reply | Options ]10.09.09, 08:23 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]
I think of the concept of natural childbirth [i.e. painkiller free childbirth] in much the same way as I think of the concept of "natural tooth extraction" or "natural bone setting"-- as utterly ridiculous. Modern medicine has developed ways to spare people pain caused by massive disruptions to the body and it's really weird that people would decide to forgo that blessing. Sure, birth isn't a pathological event like most other things that cause massive discomfort, but it sure as **** does cause a lot of pain in any case. It really just boggles my mind that anyone would want to go through that when there's a perfectly acceptable alternative.
[ Reply | Options ]10.08.09, 11:42 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]Do some research. Lots of cultures have described childbirth in great detail without ever once describing it as painful. Did they just forget? Assume everyone knew that detail, but no other detail of childbirth? I'm not saying I have the answers here, but I encourage everyone to dig into these questions before making a decision. You assume birth is a medical phenomenon like setting a bone - are you sure about that?
[ Reply | Options ]10.08.09, 05:17 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]natural childbirth is EXTREMELY painful.i did it. what planet are you on?
[ Reply | Options ]10.09.09, 08:17 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]
My feelings exactly. I get novocaine at the dentist. Ask women in Africa with fistulas what they think of natural childbirth.
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[ Reply | Options ]10.08.09, 10:29 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
I went into #1 thinking that I'd try for a natural birth, no biggie if I couldn't do it. I wound up with an epidural after being placed on pitocin. The downtime was about 12 hours and when I woke up the next morning, I was in horrendous pain. Delivery was a cinch and it actually felt good to push DB out as it relieved the pressure - no pain involved. With #2, I wound up going natural and it was HELL. Labor was manageable, but delivery felt like my cervix was on fire. I cried so much and I didn't want to push as every push I could feel myself tearing. Terrible, terrible pain. Although, when it was over, I felt amazing and I could have walked out of the hospital if they had let me.
[ Reply | Options ]10.09.09, 08:27 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]I had 2 natural. Once I learned of medicalization of childbirth and the physiology of it, I was committed to at least trying. I'm really glad I did - both were painful, but manageable. For anyone interested in natural, I'd recommend Ina Mae Gaskin's guide to childbirth (not sure of exact title) and to hire a birth doula. Well worth the money. And focus on the mind/body connection - visualization, breathing, etc.
[ Reply | Options ]10.09.09, 07:18 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
[+] If you used a doula during childbirth, would you mind saying whether you thought it w... 11 replies
- if you're doing a natural childbirth, in the heat of labor you probably won't be worried about it being an extra person in the room or...
- I had 2 natural deliveries, both with amazing doulas. I could not have done it without...support you, run interference with well-intentioned (but often impatient with nat. childbirth) hospital personnel and really help you have the type of birth you...
Talk : : September 29, 2009
If you used a doula during childbirth, would you mind saying whether you thought it was worthwhile? And what the best things about it were? A number of my friends have been telling me that it is really great to have one--they help you through labor, they are there to help after the baby is born. But I wonder if I can get over the fact that there is an extra person in the room. Do you just forget about it? And did having this very involved person make your husband/partner feel left out of the birth? Any thoughts would be really appreciated!
11 replies [ Reply | Watch | Options ]09.29.09, 06:06 PM [ Flag ]if you're doing a natural childbirth, in the heat of labor you probably won't be worried about it being an extra person in the room or that your husband will feel left out. my very involved dh thought it was really helpful to have her there to help him with everything, even just getting me a glass of water, helping carry our bags to the hospital, getting a cab, etc... -- it's a very intense situation for both you and your dh. having an extra pair of hands around, especially someone who is very familiar with hospital lingo and procedures, is a great help. i'm about 30 weeks pg now with #2 and my dh is pushing to hire her again -- i'm not completely sold on the idea that we need her, but he keeps telling me that's because i was out of my mind in labor and don't really understand how great it was to have her there.
[ Reply | Options ]09.29.09, 06:16 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]Thanks! I didn't think about how helpful having one there might be to my husband also. One of the things I am most interested in is having somebody there that is familiar with hospital procedures, so it won't all be so foreign. Friends had told me that they really advocate for you, and it can make big differences in the outcome.
[ Reply | Options ]09.30.09, 06:41 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]
dh here. We had a great doula. It's simple really. The midwife is there for the baby and the doula is there for you. The last thing I felt was left out, on the contrary she helped me involved and know what to do, and I would suspect any good doula would make use of the dh in the room!
[ Reply | Options ]09.29.09, 06:21 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]Thank you for the DH perspective!
[ Reply | Options ]09.30.09, 06:42 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]
I think my doula was much more helpful for my husband. She was great for me too, but I think having someone there to help him know what to do was great. I was rushed into emergency surgery afterward and having her there was tremendous. She was able to make phone calls, get food. She sang praise songs with me after I came out of surgery (I was already singing she joined in).
[ Reply | Options ]09.29.09, 06:30 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]My DH routinely says that having a doula was one of the best decisions we made. And I agree. The nurses are busy monitoring you, but are not there to help you get through every contraction, which can be really tough if you are going natural. Not only did our doula help keep me comfortable and help my dh know everything that was going on, our doctor also found her helpful (although apparently not the norm). After our DS was born, she stayed for about an hour to help me get started with BFing. It was the best decision we made and we'll do it again when we have another.
[ Reply | Options ]09.29.09, 07:03 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]If you don't mind sharing, I would love to get contact info for your doula. She sounds great!
[ Reply | Options ]09.30.09, 06:43 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]Kassie Anderson is amazing!!
[ Reply | Options ]09.30.09, 06:52 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]thanks so much!
[ Reply | Options ]09.30.09, 07:35 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]