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[+] what time do your school age children go to bed? I have found that some of the child... 74 replies
- , ds is 90% so not short. they rarely get sick. in the past year, i did not have to take either for a sick visit to ped....
- they can talk to mom and dad in the morning then. if you are propping dcs' eyes open up so you can actually see them conscious for two minutes a night you need to...
Talk : : November 19, 2009
what time do your school age children go to bed? I have found that some of the children in my dd and ds respective classes who have problems tend to go to bed on the later side. I am big believer it should be between 7 and 8 (closer to 7). Thoughts?
74 replies [ Reply | Watch | Options ]11.19.09, 03:54 PM [ Flag ]6 y/o dc goes to bed between 8 and 8:30. the dc in his class i would vote most likely to become a sociopath goes to bed whenever he wants or whenever mom can deal. usually at least 10, sometimes later.
[ Reply | Options ]11.19.09, 03:58 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]np: wow, 10 is late for a 6 yo. i think different kids probably need different amounts of sleep, but not having a bedtime at all or a really late bedtime that's convenient for the parents is probably an indicator of a family situation that may not be the most conducive to good behavior. my 5 yo goes to bed at 8.
[ Reply | Options ]11.19.09, 04:01 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
What age are you talking about? I think sleep deprivation is a big issue for my 13 year old. I try to get her to bed by 9 and often settle for 9:30 or 10PM (up at 6:40AM). It's not enough sleep for her.
[ Reply | Options ]11.19.09, 04:01 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]My 13 yo goes to sleep at 10:30 and 15 yo at 11pm, they both wake at 6:30am. They are actually getting more sleep than their friends.
[ Reply | Options ]11.19.09, 07:01 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
6 yo, 7pm to bed, read for about 20 minutes.
[ Reply | Options ]11.19.09, 04:02 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]to bed 7yo 9:30pm; 9yo 10:00pm and sleep about a half hour later. My dc have never needed much sleep unfortunately. They do not have behavioral or academic issues, just low sleep requirement like their dad.
[ Reply | Options ]11.19.09, 04:04 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]Are they short? Do they get colds?
[ Reply | Options ]11.19.09, 04:07 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]dd is 50% for height, ds is 90% so not short. they rarely get sick. in the past year, i did not have to take either for a sick visit to ped.
[ Reply | Options ]11.19.09, 04:13 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]Is there a link between lack of sleep and being short?
[ Reply | Options ]11.19.09, 05:37 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
Are they on the heavy side? Kids who get less sleep tend to be more obese.
[ Reply | Options ]11.19.09, 05:04 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]no, both slender and I usually have to buy slim pants for both. dd is 50% weight, ds is 75%. their sleep is meeting their needs. they need 9-9.5 hrs regardless of season, day of the week, bedtime. even this past summer when they could sleep in every day if they wanted, they were always up consistently after 9-9.5hrs. It stands to reason that an average sleep will have dc on both sides of the spectrum with higher/lower sleep needs. Mine have lower needs. DH is the same and never needs more than 5hrs a night. I need 8-9hrs so it sucks for me, but they are all perfectly happy.
[ Reply | Options ]11.19.09, 05:14 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]np: same here. my 4.5yo goes to bed at 9pm. I never have to wake him for school...he's up by 7 every day. just does not need sleep. not fat or short and no problems at school.
[ Reply | Options ]11.19.09, 05:27 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
5 yr old used to go to be at 8 but since starting K, it's 7, and she falls right asleep.
[ Reply | Options ]11.19.09, 04:06 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]Falling asleep is one thing, but how on earth do you get a school age child to bed at 7? I come from a country where kids stay up late and never had a bedtime--certainly didn't hurt me any at academically! I think 7 or 7:30 past babyhood or young toddlerhood is ridiculous, but if it works for your kids and you can do it, great.
[ Reply | Options ]11.19.09, 04:10 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]My kids go to bed at 7:00pm, but they get up at 6:00am everyday.
[ Reply | Options ]11.19.09, 04:14 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]check your ped's rec for sleep hrs in a night...
[ Reply | Options ]11.19.09, 04:28 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]np: If your kids get up at 6, they may need to go to bed at 7. Mine sleep till 7 or 7:15, so 8:30 is reasonable. They always wake up naturally so I don't think they need more time.
[ Reply | Options ]11.19.09, 05:48 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
I live in a place where the sun comes up at 5:00 (actually around 4:50). Everyone is awake before 6 am, so my kids are definitely ready for bed by 7:00 or 7:30. Some people here put their kids to bed even earlier.
[ Reply | Options ]11.19.09, 07:35 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
i never had a strict bedtime, used to play outside until 6, eat, then play until 8, and go to sleep around 9 or 10. Even if I would've slept 10 hours, I would still be up at 7, which is plenty of time to get ready for school at 8:30. same with all my siblings and all the other immigrant parent kids i know.
[ Reply | Options ]11.19.09, 04:07 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]studies show dcs need more sleep than that, aactually.
[ Reply | Options ]11.19.09, 04:20 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]webmd & nhs.uk say 10 hours a day, less after age 10.
[ Reply | Options ]11.19.09, 04:59 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
my dcs go to bed about 9:30. They are definitely tired in the morning. ON weekends, though, they wakes up ridiculously early on their own! Between one thing and another it is almost impossible to get them to sleep earlier. I know people say that makes us terrible parents, so be it. They are sweet as can be and absolutely no behavior problems and incredibly energetic when I see them at home in the afternoons--play nonstop--but they are definitely hard to get up so I assume more sleep would be good.
[ Reply | Options ]11.19.09, 04:08 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]My four year old goes to bed between 8-9pm and takes a two hour nap. No behavior problems.
[ Reply | Options ]11.19.09, 04:13 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]ha-ha-ha! wait until school starts, toots. you're gonna wanna shoot yourself.
[ Reply | Options ]11.19.09, 04:19 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]np: why? this discribes my ds too.
[ Reply | Options ]11.19.09, 04:47 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]because napping in kindergarten isn't an option. and then you'll be stuck trying to get a cranky, sleep-deprived dc adjusting to school on a new sleep schedule. translation: nightmare.
[ Reply | Options ]11.19.09, 04:55 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]I don't think so. First of all, its still 10 months away so he might outgrow the nap by then. Even if he doesn't he can make it until 3:00 when schools out and then nap at home. He sometimes has to be on this schedule now and its fine.
[ Reply | Options ]11.19.09, 04:59 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]right. good luck with that.
[ Reply | Options ]11.19.09, 05:31 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]Why are you so negative? Some dcs outgrown naps at 2.5 or 3 or 4 or 5. OR's might outgrown it this year.
[ Reply | Options ]11.19.09, 05:38 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]maybe she's grouchy because she's not getting enough sleep
[ Reply | Options ]11.19.09, 05:40 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]I'm jealous! My kids all outgrew their naps by 2.5. Sigh.
[ Reply | Options ]11.19.09, 05:47 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
sweet cheeses. why the attitude?
[ Reply | Options ]11.19.09, 05:49 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]np. i have to say that every mom i ever knew who let their dcs go to bed whenever and nap at age four were slammed when they had to suddenly deal with school. i'm not saying dcs can't grow out of naps and suddenly start going to bed at a consistent and reasonable hour at age 5. but it's not usually the case when it's been that long of go with the flow. just posting an observation
[ Reply | Options ]11.19.09, 05:53 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]She says her kids go to bed between 8 and 9, that's not "whenever"
[ Reply | Options ]11.19.09, 06:17 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
my dc had a two hour nap when in prek---the absence of nap has just moved her bedtime up. not a problem otherwise.
[ Reply | Options ]11.19.09, 04:59 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
according to the aap, dcs between the ages of 3 and 10 need 10-12 hours of sleep per night.
[ Reply | Options ]11.19.09, 04:22 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]How old in school? My 5 and 8 year old go to bed at 8, my 11 year old at 8:45. They all have to get up by 6:45, and if they go to bed late they are TIRED.
[ Reply | Options ]11.19.09, 04:28 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]My DH is from an immigrant family, he is Indian. He never had a bedtime and thinks it was really bad for him as a kid, he thinks it stunted his emotional and physical growth. He wants to make sure that our DD (she is a baby right now) has an early bedtime.
[ Reply | Options ]11.19.09, 04:28 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]i'm immigrant girl who responded above...indian too. i'm guessing your dh is a family of all boys?
[ Reply | Options ]11.19.09, 04:55 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
3.7 year old, preschool ds goe to bed at 6:15, up at 6-6:30. just dropped his nap, and making it til 6pm is hard! he needs his sleep!
[ Reply | Options ]11.19.09, 04:50 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]wow that's a lot of sleep if you include the nap. sad my dd dropped her nap before 3 goes to bed at 7 7:30 and up at 6:45
[ Reply | Options ]11.19.09, 06:49 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
my 6 year old is in bed between 8-8:30, up anywhere between 6:45 and 7:30. if i put her to bed earlier,she most likely would not sleep and i would hardly see her at all m-f. schedule works for us.
[ Reply | Options ]11.19.09, 04:57 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]My 5 yr old ds goes to bed every night at 7:00-7:15pm every night, including reading time.
[ Reply | Options ]11.19.09, 05:21 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]This is me. I work full time so I don't want to get home and immediately have to put her to sleep so I put my 3.9 year old to bed between 8:30 and 9 and she wakes up around 7:15. She's well behaved and her teachers say she's a joy in preschool so I see no problems. On the weekends we generally let her stay up as late as she wants so we can all hang out so it's closer to 11 with her waking up around 9is. It works for us as well.
[ Reply | Options ]11.19.09, 05:23 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
7-7:30 for K
[ Reply | Options ]11.19.09, 05:35 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]Pls run through this w/ me, I think we need to do this. What time do you serve dinner and then how much time btwn dinner and actually in bed (after teeth brushing, etc)?
[ Reply | Options ]11.19.09, 05:46 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]np. dinner at 6, bath at 6:30, homework/bedtime story 6:45 or 7.
[ Reply | Options ]11.19.09, 06:10 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
ditto.
[ Reply | Options ]11.19.09, 05:56 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
my 7.5yo goes to bed at 8pm. She is well rested and very happy.
[ Reply | Options ]11.19.09, 05:52 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]Same here, although I think she would do better going to bed at 7:30.
[ Reply | Options ]11.19.09, 06:51 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
Thoughts? I think you are an extremely judgmental sanctimommy. I love that you are evaluating kids in your children's classes for "problems" and collecting data on their bedtimes. Forget that cause and effect might not be operating in exactly the way you seem to be concluding, as in "parents who are not as effective as I am in getting my children to sleep at an extremely early hour are making us ALL pay the price". No? Am I reading this wrong?
[ Reply | Options ]11.19.09, 06:02 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]she's not hiding her correlation and judgment. i totally agree with her btw!
[ Reply | Options ]11.19.09, 06:06 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]not op, but get the large stick out of your big bum and get with the program. this is ub. if you don't want to play along, go find a non-fair-trade coffee producer to picket or something. you're no fun.
[ Reply | Options ]11.19.09, 06:07 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]Sorry, yes I see it is a full-blown sancti-mommy party! Have fun now ladies: one day you'll realize how little control you've had over it all, so you might as well keep pretending for as long as you can.
[ Reply | Options ]11.19.09, 06:26 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]LOL and ita. As a mom to older kids, I love reading the toddler mom idealism. It's so cute!
[ Reply | Options ]11.19.09, 06:43 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]LOL, ITA with you. Love how she knows all the bedtimes of the class.
[ Reply | Options ]11.19.09, 06:46 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]How do all these people know so much about other peoples bedtimes and waking hours? Is there a database I don't know about?
[ Reply | Options ]11.19.09, 06:48 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
I get home at 7, so wouldn't work for us. Can't imagine getting them in that early even if I had better hours. If early works for you, great.
[ Reply | Options ]11.19.09, 06:05 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]it's what works for your dcs, not what works for you.
[ Reply | Options ]11.19.09, 06:08 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]np: It's whatever works for the family. You have to balance everyone's needs.
[ Reply | Options ]11.19.09, 06:11 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]no. in the case of sleep, which is crucial for a growing dc, you don't skimp on it for the convenience of the parents.
[ Reply | Options ]11.19.09, 06:15 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]Huh? Parents have to make a living, if they don't walk into the door until 7 it is obviously not possible for dc to be in bed then. Half hour to talk to mom about your day is very important for a 5-7 yo, too.
[ Reply | Options ]11.19.09, 06:40 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]they can talk to mom and dad in the morning then. if you are propping dcs' eyes open up so you can actually see them conscious for two minutes a night you need to re-think your priorities. move closer to work, figure out a way to juggle your schedules (mom goes in at 8 and is home by 6, dad goes in at 9 and is home by 7). make some sacrifices that don't involve your dcs' health and well-being.
[ Reply | Options ]11.19.09, 06:45 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]NP: everything isn't that cut and dry. Earning a living to provide for your kids is a priority.
[ Reply | Options ]11.19.09, 06:48 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]ITA. I love it when people are like, "Why don't you just move closer to work?" Thanks, I never thought of that! I do hope the price of an apt. in Midtown drops soon.
[ Reply | Options ]11.20.09, 06:59 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]
you are a nut. 8ish bedtime is fine for kids
[ Reply | Options ]11.19.09, 06:54 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]The OR did not say her children are suffering because of their bedtime. Why are you assuming that they are? If my dc went to bed earlier, she would wake up earlier and not sleep longer, so why change her bedtime? No need to change bedtime if works for kid/family.
[ Reply | Options ]11.20.09, 07:11 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]
there is no indication in this OR's reply that her dc are skimping on sleep. even if they are asleep by 9am, perhaps they don't need to be up until 7 or 8am and are still getting 10-11 hrs. you have NO idea.
[ Reply | Options ]11.19.09, 06:42 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
Me too, but our nanny puts the kids to bed and I sneak in. Unfortunately, if the kids know I'm home, they won't go to bed until 9.
[ Reply | Options ]11.19.09, 06:57 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]If your nanny is putting the kids to bed do you get to see them awake M-F? Not flaming, just wondering how this works and if you are all together in the AM.
[ Reply | Options ]11.20.09, 12:58 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
My dd, 4. goes to bed between 7 & 7:30 and honestly by 6:30 she's tired. She has a friend, 4, who is unbelievably undisciplined and is constantly acting up and he goes around 11. He gets up 7.
[ Reply | Options ]11.19.09, 06:15 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]5 and 7 y.o. are in bed by 7 and asleep by 7:30 (8 at the absolute latest)
[ Reply | Options ]11.19.09, 06:53 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]Ideally I agree with this...unfortunately I work and commute.
[ Reply | Options ]11.20.09, 06:57 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]
[+] My nanny has been with us for about 1 month. Today she asked about doing a nanny shar... 24 replies
- Your situation will be complicated since it's just a morning share. Whose house will it be at; do you share...can be flexible with our needs, when we have sick kids, school closings, etc. I'm still not sure...be to find someone who just needs help for mornings though it's worth a try....
- making ~$150 extra. Even if she sits 4hrs a morning x 4 days (you say not every day and just mornings) she can expect an extra maybe $10/hr for $160 total. So she won't...
Talk : : November 19, 2009
My nanny has been with us for about 1 month. Today she asked about doing a nanny share in the mornings, while my dd is in school, but ds (2) is home. Anyone btdt? We really like her and want to keep her, but she says she needs more pay.
24 replies [ Reply | Watch | Options ]11.19.09, 03:38 PM [ Flag ]It depends what you are paying her. If you are paying her a decent rate, I'd say no.
[ Reply | Options ]11.19.09, 04:00 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]is she underpaid? shares can work, but they are more complicated and should benefit both parties. her total pay should be rougly 1.5 current so your portion drops to .75X. Your situation will be complicated since it's just a morning share. Whose house will it be at; do you share the same parenting/food/nap/discipline styles? I think what would concern me most is that your new nanny accepted your position with the known pay, and is now (only 1 mth later) saying it's not okay.
[ Reply | Options ]11.19.09, 04:03 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]I think she really thought she could work with the wage we were paying, but now she's trying to find an apartment in the city, and it's difficult. She wants to try and find a SAHM with a child close in age to ds, so the 2nd family can be flexible with our needs, when we have sick kids, school closings, etc. I'm still not sure how I feel about it.
[ Reply | Options ]11.19.09, 04:23 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]Is she new to NYC? where was she living before? as long as you are okay with it and get some $ savings yourself, then go for it. not sure how easy it will be to find someone who just needs help for mornings though it's worth a try.
[ Reply | Options ]11.19.09, 04:26 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]She worked in NYC for her last job, but commuted from westchester. I think I am open to it, as long as it's beneficial to my child, in a way and not negative to my ds in any significant ways. Hopefully it won't be every day Mon-Fri....I told her I still want her to take him to one class a week, and ideally get him out one other day a week, but I guess I'd be fine if he did that with the extra kid, as long as he gets out.
[ Reply | Options ]11.19.09, 04:31 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
what does nanny share mean?
[ Reply | Options ]11.19.09, 04:04 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]1 nanny-2 kids from 2 diff families
[ Reply | Options ]11.19.09, 04:10 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]in your house?
[ Reply | Options ]11.19.09, 04:39 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]Yours or the other families. Some families swap. Possibly in the nanny's home...if she were a sahm with school aged kids or something? I wouldn't send my kids to queens for a nanny share at nanny's house there.
[ Reply | Options ]11.19.09, 04:47 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
I think that if she's making these kinds of requests after just one month on the job, you are in for a bumpy ride with this woman.
[ Reply | Options ]11.19.09, 04:37 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]i don't think asking after 1 month means she's dissatisfied. it could be that another family recently offered the nanny share. if was a nanny and had an opportunity to make more money, and to give my first charge a playmate as well, i'd probably ask too. the main thing is you should be on the same page with the other family's rules and their kid.
[ Reply | Options ]11.19.09, 05:02 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]OP, like other posters, I think what concerns me most is not that she wants to do nanny share, but htat she accepted a job and is now presenting this idea 1 month into it. at any rate, I would do it, but on YOUR TERMS. that means, if she wants to find another mom to drop HER KID off at YOUR apartment every day, and pick him/ her up (or nanny can take a walk with your kid to drop this other child off), then fine. but anything short of that, is just unfair.
[ Reply | Options ]11.19.09, 05:06 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]What are you paying her for how many hours of work? You haven't answered this question yet and it's important.
[ Reply | Options ]11.19.09, 05:15 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]800/cash for 55 hours a week. She's a teacher, educated, experience as a nanny and in her early 30's.
[ Reply | Options ]11.19.09, 05:18 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]i was the poster who said that she might not be dissatisfied, but $800/month is a pretty good gig...so i'm a little surprised now...that she feels short on cash. i used to be paid $300 a week FT so I suppose that's why I was sympathetic to the nanny wantign more pay. But this is a little weird. Anyway, you are the employer, you're in charge, if you say no, it's not a big deal, right?
[ Reply | Options ]11.19.09, 05:20 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]she's paid well. so her dissatisfaction would concern me. plus her hours are already on the high side, so taking on extra work would also concern me. sorry, but i don't think it's a good sign.
[ Reply | Options ]11.19.09, 05:22 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]She currently works 2 nights a week babysitting to make extra cash, so if she did this "babysitting" as a share, she'd have more free time, which I think would be good for her. I couldn't imagine working 55 hours a week and not making enough money to pay my bills. And given the hours, she wants to live close by to alleviate commuting time. And I do need a nanny on time so I can go to work...I just want everyone to be happy.
[ Reply | Options ]11.19.09, 05:45 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]this is not making practical sense. so she's working 8am-7pm (or 7am-6pm) for you, then going to another job 2 nights a week working another ~5hrs (so 65 a week!) and making ~$150 extra. Even if she sits 4hrs a morning x 4 days (you say not every day and just mornings) she can expect an extra maybe $10/hr for $160 total. So she won't be netting anymore than she is now, which she's already telling you isn't enough to live on. This is just not a good setup. She needs to work less and live in a less expensive area like most ppl making that much do.
[ Reply | Options ]11.19.09, 06:36 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
that is a LOT OF MONEY. She has chutzpah.
[ Reply | Options ]11.19.09, 05:23 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]I do not tolerate re-negotiating. Unless something drastic happened in the last month, when she took the job, her pay and your arrangement were agreed upon. All of these %, and decisions-- you are compromising the freedom, security and consistency you are paying WAY WAY to much for. There are plenty of nannies looking, who would accept less and STILL be grateful and loyal and professional. Move on from her.
[ Reply | Options ]11.19.09, 05:28 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
WOW. She is makin 32K OFF THE BOOKS and has the chutzpah to tell you she wants YOU to rearrange your life like this? sorry, but the fact that she is trying to push you around like htis 1 mo after starting is QUITE disconcerting.
[ Reply | Options ]11.19.09, 05:26 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]Please don't do this. What if anything do you know about other family, their dc, their habits, their demands? For $800 your nanny should be at your disposal for your convenience.
[ Reply | Options ]11.19.09, 06:24 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
I'm the OR. I know it's a bad economy but that's actually not an especially high salary -- less than $15/hour, which is the starting salary for many nannies. If she is truly a teacher and educated, she can probably get more even in this market -- people really do pay $18 - $20/hour for some nannies, although they have to be truly amazing.
[ Reply | Options ]11.19.09, 07:45 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
Why did she accept the job and now 1 month later, she needs more money?? It happens to me once - girl was too greedy - she left me the minute someone else offered her a penny more... don't bother..
[ Reply | Options ]11.19.09, 06:27 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
[+] My 3-year old has swine flu and so I stayed home from work on Mon and Tues. My boss ... 85 replies
- give you a certain number of personal and sick days which you may use for whatever purpose...school already, and it's November. Kids are sick A LOT. Spouses need to share responsilibility,...
- job" every time one of our DC gets sick is probably one of the biggest benefits. Better...
- Sick time and vacations are not even comparable. You...
- Sick time for DC when there is another caregiver...
Talk : : November 18, 2009
My 3-year old has swine flu and so I stayed home from work on Mon and Tues. My boss left me a voicemail this morning saying how "disappointed" he was that my DH didn't stay home with our DS yesterday. I don't even know how to respond! I work for a co with 3 employees, I have ZERO benefits or job security and they change my hours willy nilly to fit their checkbook. And my DH, who is top mgmt and his very large firm, is supposed to stay home? How would you respond?
85 replies [ Reply | Watch | Options ]11.18.09, 12:23 PM [ Flag ]Disappointment is part of life.
[ Reply | Options ]11.18.09, 12:26 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]I guess his side of the argument is that when you're out, the company's manpower is down 33%. I think he is pretty rotten, though.
[ Reply | Options ]11.18.09, 12:29 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]Well, I worked from home, so manpower wasn't really affected. He's made the comment in the past that he feels like he is "subsidizing" my DH's firm. I was stunned when he said that and had to point out the fact that DH's firm actually subsidizes MY firm by providing me with all the benefits that I don't get here, therefore making it possible for me to work here!
[ Reply | Options ]11.18.09, 12:34 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]Why hire a woman who misses work regularly to take care of her children unless she was a single parent?
[ Reply | Options ]11.18.09, 12:52 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]oh shut up - 2 days is hardly "regularly"
[ Reply | Options ]11.18.09, 01:10 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]regularly = every time her kids are sick. Pretty regular to me. But since I hurt your feelings, I'm sorry.
[ Reply | Options ]11.18.09, 01:17 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]np: who wrote the above? a man or a woman? and are you wohm or sahm if it was a woman?
[ Reply | Options ]11.18.09, 05:57 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
2 days this time, but since this is obviously an issue that comes up regularly, it's 2 days regularly.
[ Reply | Options ]11.18.09, 01:21 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
I don't get it, why is manpower not affected because you work from home?
[ Reply | Options ]11.18.09, 12:50 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
You are going ot hate my response. I think working women should make every effort to make sure they are not handling 100% of the childcare duties no matter how senior their spouses are. It just causes a circle of women not getting promoted. I foudn it very annoying whem my female colleague missed so many work days, and I had to cover, and never expected her husband, also a senior law firm guy, to miss. She was pretty senior too, mind you. It's one more reason to hire a man over a woman. i don't care how senior your hsuband is, he's a dad too. He should stay home every other day with your child. Really.
[ Reply | Options ]11.18.09, 12:46 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]*small voice* I agree *hanging head in feminine shame*
[ Reply | Options ]11.18.09, 12:48 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]are you op?
[ Reply | Options ]11.18.09, 12:50 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]No, NP sorry.
[ Reply | Options ]11.18.09, 12:51 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
And by the way, what do your benefits and pay have to do with who should handle the childcare responsibilities. It seems like youa re acknowledging that your DH should NOT miss work for your child, since it miaght negatively affect his job, however you are questioning why your missing work negatively affects your job.
[ Reply | Options ]11.18.09, 12:48 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]i don't hate your response, i just disagree with it.
[ Reply | Options ]11.18.09, 12:51 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]Why don't you find a new job, and in the interview, sugggest to the interviewer that your DH has a very senior level job, so will not be able to miss his work to take care of impromptu matters with the kids-- you will handle these. Make it clear you will be taking the kids to doctor visits, and covering flus, etc, and make sure this is OK with new employer.
[ Reply | Options ]11.18.09, 12:53 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]all that is personal information. it doesn't matter what her dh does (in our home, dh works a blue collar job, so can't take time off). you don't ask permission to be human. shame on her boss.
[ Reply | Options ]11.18.09, 12:58 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]It doesn't matter what her DH does, ITA. What does matter is how many days she is missing work. If it is 2 days a year, I am certain her boss would not mind. If it is 5, that's significant.
[ Reply | Options ]11.18.09, 01:22 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
most jobs give you a certain number of personal and sick days which you may use for whatever purpose and for which they should not begrudge you.
[ Reply | Options ]11.18.09, 01:01 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]moreover, your boss can't mandate the equity in your home.
[ Reply | Options ]11.18.09, 01:11 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]No, but he can tell you that you can't take days off without notice.
[ Reply | Options ]11.18.09, 01:16 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]how much notice is one supposed to be able to give for sick days. Hello boss, I will contract the flu next week and will be taking 2 days off.
[ Reply | Options ]11.18.09, 01:28 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]and i feel a bout of stomach virus coming in january. stay tuned.
[ Reply | Options ]11.18.09, 01:30 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]This is specifically in response to "can't mandate equity in your home." Well, no, he can't. But an unscheduled day off is an unscheduled day off, and he does have a right to ask that you minimize those (by having DH take a turn).
[ Reply | Options ]11.18.09, 01:31 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]he shouldn't bring your husband into it at all. he can ask that you minimize, and sh*t happens, or h1n1 happens.
[ Reply | Options ]11.18.09, 01:40 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]I don't disagree, but I think asking you to minimize a sick child is effectively the same as asking DH to take a turn. So yes, I think he could've been more tactful but the message is the same. Unplanned missed work day sucks for managers, especially in such a tiny company.
[ Reply | Options ]11.18.09, 01:42 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
ITD. Sick leave is for you, not DC. Last minute days off, prolonged vacations, etc., are all not okay even if you have the days.
[ Reply | Options ]11.18.09, 01:14 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]Not the case, my employment contract specifically states that I can use sick days for sick DC's.
[ Reply | Options ]11.18.09, 01:23 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]not most places, not even in my tiny 7 employee shop
[ Reply | Options ]11.18.09, 01:26 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]not so fast - sometimes it's for children.
[ Reply | Options ]11.18.09, 01:27 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]ITA. How many people actually use up all of their days off?
[ Reply | Options ]11.18.09, 01:30 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]My company calls it "unplanned time off" and doesn't specify who/what it should be used for.
[ Reply | Options ]11.18.09, 01:30 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]Since OP's company has three employees, I doubt they have anything resembling this policy.
[ Reply | Options ]11.18.09, 01:32 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]I replied above that my employment contract specifically states that I can use my sick days for my DS.
[ Reply | Options ]11.18.09, 01:35 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]I personally never use all of my personal sick days, even though they could be used for DC. DH and I take turns.
[ Reply | Options ]11.18.09, 01:38 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
That's a good point. If you have x personal days, and don't go over, then just call your boss and saying you are taking a personal day, not need to supply any more info.
[ Reply | Options ]11.18.09, 01:18 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
ITA. DH's job is substantially senior to mine, but he's stayed home/worked from home on days when I had to go in. We take it on a day-to-day basis - if he's got to be in a face-to-face meeting, they he goes in, if I have clients coming in, he stays home. On days when both of us need to put time in the office, we have been known to trade off (both of us work 20 minutes from home, in opposite directions). It's not always me missing work and both of our bosses know this.
[ Reply | Options ]11.18.09, 12:56 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]Another WOHM and ITA
[ Reply | Options ]11.18.09, 12:57 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]I am stunned so many WOHM would agree with this response - the U.S. has a dreadful attitude toward work/life balance of working parents and needs to get out of the dark ages. Women want to or have to work, and there are men who want the ability to assume 50% parenting responsibilities without having it threaten their career. Shame on you
[ Reply | Options ]11.18.09, 01:15 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]NP: ???? It sounds like you and the OR agree with each other, so I'm not sure where the "shame on you" is coming from.
[ Reply | Options ]11.18.09, 01:20 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]Who are you shaming. You think this or any woman should be able to take off work everytime her kids are sick? My kids have missed over 10 days of school already, and it's November. Kids are sick A LOT. Spouses need to share responsilibility,
[ Reply | Options ]11.18.09, 01:20 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]What does this mean? If OP is the only parent that takes days off, then her boss has a right to be annoyed. We are only saying that DHs need to share the burden, and that being a woman in and of itself does not mean you should always be the one to miss work. We're AGREEING with you.
[ Reply | Options ]11.18.09, 01:25 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
please, please, please tell this to my dh, who always says "but i have a lot of work to do!!"
[ Reply | Options ]11.18.09, 02:06 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
i wouldn't respond at all. he's disappointed - how fascinating for him - he'll have to get over it. (you need to consider another job, though)
[ Reply | Options ]11.18.09, 12:48 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]DH and I try to be fair about the days we take off for DS, but it doesn't always work out that way. He has the more demanding job, so I take off 75%. Like the other poster said, though, if you're always doing 100% I can see where the annoyance comes from.
[ Reply | Options ]11.18.09, 12:51 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]So sorry, I know how you feel. My boss, who has a SAHW, once told me "you know my kids get sick too, and I manage to come into the office". Not sure what he was saying there, friend in HR said that was actionable not that I would go there. My dh does actually take alot of the days, but I don't report it to my boss that that happens, he doesn't know the number of times I have come in when child is sick.
[ Reply | Options ]11.18.09, 12:54 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]As a mom I sympathesize with you. As a manager and if this happened all the time, I agree with your boss. Sorry.
[ Reply | Options ]11.18.09, 12:54 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]please then do us all a favor and hire only men at your workplace so you don't have to worry about it
[ Reply | Options ]11.18.09, 01:18 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]Men/women have nothing to do it. If I had an employee that regularly missed work for whatever reason, it's going to cause all sorts of problems.
[ Reply | Options ]11.18.09, 01:27 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
I'm a BigLaw partner and so is dh, and there is no reason at all that your husband cannot pick up some of the childcare responsibilities. No doubt one of the reasons that you are forced to work on such unreasonable terms is because you carry all the weight at home. DH needs to step up at least some of the time.
[ Reply | Options ]11.18.09, 12:55 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]OP here - so funny to me that you are all making the assumption that my DH doesn't take time off to stay with our DS when he's ill or otherwise, quite the contrary! This board is ridiculous! I posted earlier this summer about a funny text I got from my DH while he was chaperoning a field trip, and I got questions regarding whether he was unemployed and chaperoning field trips is the mom's responsibility, etc! So ridiculous. This just happened to be a week where my DH could not take off, so be it. And, yes, I do have sick and personal days that I should be able to use at my OWN discretion.
[ Reply | Options ]11.18.09, 01:18 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]It's a pretty reasonable assumption to make, based on what you wrote. ("And my DH, who is top mgmt and his very large firm, is supposed to stay home?")
[ Reply | Options ]11.18.09, 01:22 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]ITA. You explicitly stated that he is "top mgmt" [in] his very large firm," otherwise, how would we have known. I'm sorry your kids are sick. That stinks. I think you might need a nanny. Or a new job with a more understanding boss.
[ Reply | Options ]11.18.09, 01:26 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
You kind of said it in your post "my dh, who is top mgmt. . ." I'm one of the ORs above, and I sympathize. Boss never knows that dh is home with the kids unless I'm annoying and report to him that I came in when my ds was sick. . . GL to you, hope the worst is over for the swine flu.
[ Reply | Options ]11.18.09, 01:25 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]I agree, didn't make any assumptions about your husband, but posted that your boss can't mandate equity in your house. Maybe you should call and not give him any information, and say you're working from home.
[ Reply | Options ]11.18.09, 01:26 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]We only can make do with what you posted, and this is what you implied.
[ Reply | Options ]11.18.09, 01:28 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
My DH quit his job 18 months ago to be a SAHD and I think not having to play "my job is more important than your job" every time one of our DC gets sick is probably one of the biggest benefits. Better for my career, better for our marriage. The American workplace has a long way to go in terms of being accommodating to working parents.
[ Reply | Options ]11.18.09, 01:25 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]Well, my world is rooted in reality, not a power struggle. My DH's job IS more important than my job. If we lose my job, whatever, if we lose his job, then we lose our benefits, etc. That's a much bigger worry.
[ Reply | Options ]11.18.09, 02:53 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]So if you think of your job as not important, it's probably showing and that's what your boss is reacting to.
[ Reply | Options ]11.18.09, 03:45 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]I didn't say it wasn't important, I said that my DH's job is MORE important.
[ Reply | Options ]11.18.09, 03:55 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]Same difference to your boss.
[ Reply | Options ]11.18.09, 04:13 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
OP again, and for all of you who are assuming this is such a "regular" thing, my DH's firm actually provides back-up childcare for instances like this, but there is, understandably, a swine flu exclusion this year.
[ Reply | Options ]11.18.09, 01:30 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]Sigh... one more time: We are only responsible for the information that you give us. It seems unreasonable for a boss to complain about two days off if it's a first occurrence or rare occurrence. If that were indeed the case, we *assumed* you would highlight that in your post. But you didn't. So at best your post was unclear and did not provide enough information, but that's your fault, not the fault of the responders who gave replies based solely on the information you provided. We're not mind readers.
[ Reply | Options ]11.18.09, 01:35 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]OP asked the board how they would respond and no one even really answered. Just made a bunch of assumptions and gave their opinions. If she had asked for an opinion, she probably would have included more details.
[ Reply | Options ]11.18.09, 01:37 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]NP: If she had left out the sentence about her DH being too busy and important to miss work, she would have gotten better responses. (And I'm not sure why she even included it if DH regularly takes off work for stuff like this like she claims.)
[ Reply | Options ]11.18.09, 01:40 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]ITA. No even sure what the importance of DH's job or the no-benefits of her job have anything to do with it. A job is a job. She took it. She agreed to it. The fact that they offer her no benefits is not an excuse for her to do whatever she wants.
[ Reply | Options ]11.18.09, 01:47 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]Wow, a woman stays home with a sick child, uses sick days that she is contractually allowed to use for her sick child and now she is being accused of doing "whatever she wants"? You're a moron...
[ Reply | Options ]11.18.09, 02:29 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]YEs, it's your job. Do accountants take vacation 4/15? Do u take vacation wo advanced notice? Do you resch MD appts if needed? Just bc you get these benefits does not mean you can use them whenever you want. Doesn't matter if you are a man or a woman. Op's boss is angry bc he clearly needed her there, and she had an alternative.
[ Reply | Options ]11.18.09, 03:42 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]Sick time and vacations are not even comparable. You are indeed a moron.
[ Reply | Options ]11.18.09, 03:57 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]Sick time for DC when there is another caregiver is
[ Reply | Options ]11.18.09, 04:07 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
All the debate centered around the "You're going to hate my response" post. So no, no one was answering OP's question, but a spin-off, which is fine.
[ Reply | Options ]11.18.09, 01:41 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
So then tell your boss that this was an extenuating circumstance that will never repeat itself and you apologize for the inconvenience. But that's really not how you described the situation in your original post.
[ Reply | Options ]11.18.09, 01:38 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]ITA
[ Reply | Options ]11.18.09, 01:39 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]bah. don't apologize.
[ Reply | Options ]11.18.09, 01:52 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
a dh (and a boss): this is why I don't want to know why people are out. You work X number of days you get Y number of days off. So, 1. don't talk about why you are out. Just that you are. 2. why does your boss presume to know when your husband does/does not work?
[ Reply | Options ]11.18.09, 01:54 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]thank you!! people share too much information, then get dinged over it.
[ Reply | Options ]11.18.09, 01:57 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]Well, if it's an unscheduled day off, then some explanation should be provided. If it's scheduled, then who cares?
[ Reply | Options ]11.18.09, 02:03 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]If you work in an office of 4 people, they either know you are a good worker or not. I tell my staff, "Don't abuse it and don't tell me why you are not here. I really don't want to know."
[ Reply | Options ]11.18.09, 02:49 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]Sounds like OP is not a good worker based on boss's reaction.
[ Reply | Options ]11.18.09, 03:47 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]I wouldn't jump to that conclusion at all. You know nothing about her or her boss and, in this economy, if she were a shitty worker at a THREE person firm, she would be replaced.
[ Reply | Options ]11.18.09, 03:58 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]Ita. One of my employees take off all the time for her sick DS, and I 100% support her bc she works hard. If this is OP's first time off and get boss is bent out of shape, clearly something else is going on here.
[ Reply | Options ]11.18.09, 04:12 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
i think your boss's comments were overly personal, but i don't agree that you should always be the one to take time off work, just because your husband is in a senior mgmemt position. I am a manager and I wouldn't want to hire someone who took 100pc responsbility for childcare on the grounds that her husband was too senior to do it.
[ Reply | Options ]11.18.09, 02:54 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]You obviously haven't read the entire post.
[ Reply | Options ]11.18.09, 03:59 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]Np: I'm inclined to stick to this version. I just find it hard to believe that she would be yelled out for using two days of sick leave in Nov when she doesn't do it all year round.
[ Reply | Options ]11.18.09, 04:15 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
I would think that as a senior person, like your dh, assuming no pressing conflict, should easily be able to take off. I'm a big law partner & one of the benefits is that I can take off whenever I need/want to without having to explain it to anyone. My dh otoh is midlevel in his job & gets nickel & dimed over time off.
[ Reply | Options ]11.18.09, 05:11 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
[+] Anyone crave citrus and fruit while pregnant instead of junk food? 25 replies
- haha I craved citrus junk food like starbursts and skittles, but let me tell you, it was the only thing that kept my morning sickness undercontrol...
Talk : : November 18, 2009
Anyone crave citrus and fruit while pregnant instead of junk food?
25 replies [ Reply | Watch | Options ]11.18.09, 11:37 AM [ Flag ]me. clementines and pickles wiere my biggies
[ Reply | Options ]11.18.09, 11:39 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]oh yes, with my dd. All I wanted was fruit and vegetables. She is that way too, will take an apple or orange over candy anyday
[ Reply | Options ]11.18.09, 11:44 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]Yes with my dd all I wanted was fruit salad with cottage cheese and that's what I ate every single day. Sadly I'm 20 weeks with a ds and all I crave now are pillsbury cookies and cinnamon buns. :(
[ Reply | Options ]11.18.09, 11:46 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]I averaged two grapefruits a day and did not crave junk food at all
[ Reply | Options ]11.18.09, 11:47 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]granny smith apples... and alcohol! (Don't worry, i only indulged one of those cravings... ; )
[ Reply | Options ]11.18.09, 11:48 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]grapefruit all day long. couldn't get enough of it!
[ Reply | Options ]11.18.09, 12:05 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
oj and perrier together all day long.
[ Reply | Options ]11.18.09, 11:53 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]I craved grapes, does that count?
[ Reply | Options ]11.18.09, 11:56 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]grapefruit here too!
[ Reply | Options ]11.18.09, 12:33 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]i craved citrus and junk foods- salty things.
[ Reply | Options ]11.18.09, 12:34 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]12 weeks now, craving citrus and junk food makes me sick. I can't even look at chocolate!
[ Reply | Options ]11.18.09, 12:36 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]Pineapple and frozen champagne grapes-4 months straight.
[ Reply | Options ]11.18.09, 12:37 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]me, tomato soup, every day, cold soup in the summer, warm soup in the fall.
[ Reply | Options ]11.18.09, 04:43 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]I was all lemon all the time: lemonade, lemon ices, lemon soda, lemon in my water.
[ Reply | Options ]11.18.09, 04:49 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]Yes, but then I got gestational diabetes
[ Reply | Options ]11.18.09, 04:50 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]Craved lemon sparkling water
[ Reply | Options ]11.18.09, 04:53 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]Pears. I've had more pears in the last 9 months than I've had in 30 years of my life.
[ Reply | Options ]11.18.09, 05:01 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]i could not agree more on the pear thing...and fruit/veggies in general. with my dd, all i ate with pizza, so this is a good change of pace!
[ Reply | Options ]11.18.09, 06:25 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
Yes! Cravings have nicely coincided with whatever is in season. I'm up to apples and grapefruit now.
[ Reply | Options ]11.18.09, 05:57 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]Yes! I ate oranges all day long
[ Reply | Options ]11.18.09, 06:40 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]haha I craved citrus junk food like starbursts and skittles, but let me tell you, it was the only thing that kept my morning sickness undercontrol
[ Reply | Options ]11.18.09, 07:30 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]I was addicted to skittles in my first trimester! I also ate a ton of pineapple and grapefruit. I'm having a boy FWIW
[ Reply | Options ]11.20.09, 08:23 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
omg, I ate watermelon and green apples ALL the time... people thought I was on a crazy fruit diet before then knew I was pregnant.
[ Reply | Options ]11.18.09, 07:40 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]I'm 12 wks and started craving pink grapefruit two wks ago... didn't know it was common! and it's the only thing I really crave.
[ Reply | Options ]11.20.09, 12:10 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]Yes! Like crazy. Eating citrus, citrus perfumes and lotions, anything.
[ Reply | Options ]11.20.09, 12:31 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
[+] I had a miscarriage three years ago, then DD a year later. Now I am 7 wks pregnant ag... 3 replies
- I'm in the same boat, I even posted about it a few weeks ago. 14 weeks now, no morning sickness. But the baby looks great! Maybe we are just lucky this time around :)...
- Honestly, every pregnancy can be different. My record is 1 mc, 1 ds, 1 mc, and now 12 wks along. With my ds, had barely any morning sickness, and with one of my mc's I had morning sickness even AFTER the fetus had likely ceased to be viable. (Took my hormones a while to go down.)...
Talk : : November 18, 2009
I had a miscarriage three years ago, then DD a year later. Now I am 7 wks pregnant again, and simply cannot believe that the pregnancy is OK, partly because, though I have other symptoms, so far I have no morning sickness. Really: I have a feeling of dread. I'm going to get an ultrasound Friday, that will be a relief, but seriously -- what can I do to get through this, those who btdt? Or do I just have to wait? TIA.
3 replies [ Reply | Watch | Options ]11.18.09, 11:35 AM [ Flag ]I had four mc's. I have three healthy children. But every pg was miserable with dread until I saw the heartbeat... and even then it was hard to relax. I never had any symptoms either and I had a twin pg which should have been over the top miserable.
[ Reply | Options ]11.18.09, 11:38 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]I'm in the same boat, I even posted about it a few weeks ago. 14 weeks now, no morning sickness. But the baby looks great! Maybe we are just lucky this time around :)
[ Reply | Options ]11.18.09, 11:40 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]Honestly, every pregnancy can be different. My record is 1 mc, 1 ds, 1 mc, and now 12 wks along. With my ds, had barely any morning sickness, and with one of my mc's I had morning sickness even AFTER the fetus had likely ceased to be viable. (Took my hormones a while to go down.)
[ Reply | Options ]11.18.09, 11:52 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]
[+] My 3-year old DS had a fever Sat, Sun, Mon, and Tues. Took him to the dr and flu tes... 4 replies
- I would keep him home another day. 'eyes look a tad sick' - to me that says: let him rest one more day. GL...
Talk : : November 18, 2009
My 3-year old DS had a fever Sat, Sun, Mon, and Tues. Took him to the dr and flu test was negative. Eyes look a tad sick and he has a runny nose, but otherwise he's acting fine. His fever this morning has been around 99.4. Would you take him to school or keep him home another day? I really need to get to work!
4 replies [ Reply | Watch | Options ]11.18.09, 07:24 AM [ Flag ]I would keep him home another day. 'eyes look a tad sick' - to me that says: let him rest one more day. GL
[ Reply | Options ]11.18.09, 07:25 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]Kids temps fluctuate so much. I just retook it and it was 98.3 now.
[ Reply | Options ]11.18.09, 07:30 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]It must be under 100F for 24 hours before a child can return to school.
[ Reply | Options ]11.18.09, 07:40 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]
not only fever free for 24 hours but fever free without tylenol or motrin.
[ Reply | Options ]11.18.09, 07:50 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]
[+] Want some real life stories. For those that didn't get the h1n1 vaccine and came dow... 14 replies
- husband's story. He got it last winter. He was REALLY sick for a week and a half. Couldn't get out of...was REALLY sick for over a week. don't know if he got...
- All 3 kids got sick - fevers >103, headaches, vomiting,lasted about 4 days for...5 yr. old got it and went from only sick enough in the morning that she debated taking him to the doctor vs. school to intubated and airlifted to...
Talk : : November 17, 2009
Want some real life stories. For those that didn't get the h1n1 vaccine and came down with the swine flu exactly how bad was the flu? Were you or your dc sick in bed for days? Super high fevers? Vomiting and diarrhea? Aches and pains? How many days before you felt 100% again? Did you take Tamiflu?
14 replies [ Reply | Watch | Options ]11.17.09, 08:51 AM [ Flag ]It was just like any other flu I had in my life.
[ Reply | Options ]11.17.09, 08:53 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]oh, and it took a week before I was able to go back to work and I did not take Tmaiflu.
[ Reply | Options ]11.17.09, 08:53 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]
I didn't get it myself, but I can give you my husband's story. He got it last winter. He was REALLY sick for a week and a half. Couldn't get out of bed sick. High fever, aches, pains, diarrhea, almost delirious for part of the time. Even after he got out of bed, recovery was REALLY slow. It took about three weeks for his energy to come back, the coughing to stop, etc. I guess the flu is never any fun, and I'm not sure whether this was worse or better than a normal strain would have been. But it was pretty terrible. No tamiflu.
[ Reply | Options ]11.17.09, 08:53 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]np: my dh just had it in October & almost the exact same story. After flu was gone, still coughing, tired and weak for 2 weeks following.
[ Reply | Options ]11.17.09, 09:18 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]I thought H1N1 flu wasn't reported until the spring. I don't think it got to NYC before April.
[ Reply | Options ]11.17.09, 09:21 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]My bad! He must have had some other kind of flu. So let that just be a story about what the flu was like for him!
[ Reply | Options ]11.17.09, 02:24 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
Last winter? Your DH had some other flu. The epidemic started in the spring of this year.
[ Reply | Options ]11.17.09, 09:28 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]
df's 15 mo just had it. 3 days of 103 fever, cranky, sleepy, etc. but she started getting better on day 4 and fine by day 7. another df (in his late 30's got it). no tamiflu. more like the poster above ... was REALLY sick for over a week. don't know if he got tamiflu.
[ Reply | Options ]11.17.09, 08:56 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]My children and I all had it--the older the child, the more severe it was for some reason. 5 year old: 1 day fever, lingering cough, no missed school (his fever was over the weekend). 8 year old: 3 days fever, 3 days off school, lingering cough, aches and pains. 11 year old: 4 days fever, lingering cough, aches and pains, 4 days off school. Me: 4 days fever, etc, still have cough and am fatigued a week later. We did not take tamiflu.
[ Reply | Options ]11.17.09, 09:42 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]All 3 kids got sick - fevers >103, headaches, vomiting,lasted about 4 days for each child. Husband and nanny got it too - seemed much milder for adults - That being said dear friends husband had a mild case and is very ill with pneumonia now.
[ Reply | Options ]11.17.09, 09:52 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]Well, based on people's experience I guess the risk associated with the vaccine outweighs the actual flu.
[ Reply | Options ]11.17.09, 02:19 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]What risk? I mean the flu has actual, demonstrated risk. What significant risks have been demonstrated for flu vaccine?
[ Reply | Options ]11.17.09, 02:26 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
Friend's healthy 5 yr. old got it and went from only sick enough in the morning that she debated taking him to the doctor vs. school to intubated and airlifted to the ICU at a major hospital that night. He's now recovering and won't have lasting effects, but it was a very scary several days of serious illness.
[ Reply | Options ]11.17.09, 02:37 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]Two kids had mild fevers for 2 days, a headache, then were done. One kid had a mild fever for 6 days, a lingering cough, and 24 hours of a high temp right in the middle of those 6 days. I have it right now- ugh. Cough and fever. It's a drag, but manageable given my lifestyle (SAHM,) and lack of other health issues. We didn't get Tamiflu partially because I didn't believe that my other kids could have it since it was so mild. I'm not sure I even have it, as it started with a mild sore throat and fatigue, and the fever didn't show up until 24 hours later, versus being hit by the proverbial bus.
[ Reply | Options ]11.17.09, 03:41 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
[+] I am 11.5 weeks pregnant....my morning sickness almost disappeared at 10 weeks and su... 3 replies
Talk : : November 17, 2009
I am 11.5 weeks pregnant....my morning sickness almost disappeared at 10 weeks and suddenly is back with a vengeance. When will this hell end? I'm just miserable.
3 replies [ Reply | Watch | Options ]11.17.09, 08:29 AM [ Flag ]mine ended at 16 weeks...hang in there.
[ Reply | Options ]11.17.09, 09:34 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]Oh man...I know how you feel. I'm almost at my 16th week and i'm still nauseous and barf about once a day. Just started on some anti-nausea perscription meds (which I hate taking and feel guilty about) but I have to. They help reduce the nausea, but not totally eliminate it unfortunately. Just hang in there, my friend. Just hang in there...I found out yesterday I'm having a boy and I was so happy and squealed with delight and then puked.
[ Reply | Options ]11.18.09, 02:51 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]Try unisom
[ Reply | Options ]11.18.09, 02:56 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
[+] when was the last time you had sex? how was it? what made it good? 10 replies
- and I have had wicked morning sickness ever since. Poor dh....
Talk : : November 16, 2009
when was the last time you had sex? how was it? what made it good?
10 replies [ Reply | Watch | Options ]11.16.09, 10:23 PM [ Flag ]it's been about a week. it was ok. we only had 30 minutes. agh
[ Reply | Options ]11.16.09, 10:33 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]it's been a while. i am horny
[ Reply | Options ]11.16.09, 10:40 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]last night. went to bed and hubby was waiting.it was pitch black. NICE!
[ Reply | Options ]11.16.09, 11:11 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]lol. was he lurking like a shark, swimming back and forth, pretending to be asleep and then zap
[ Reply | Options ]11.16.09, 11:12 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]YEP! and I love every sec!
[ Reply | Options ]11.16.09, 11:15 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]you're like the girl from the beginning of jaws--you swim naked in bed and then your hubby swims along and bites your arm off
[ Reply | Options ]11.16.09, 11:18 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]what makes your dh such a good lover? the element of surprise?
[ Reply | Options ]11.16.09, 11:38 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]Will you please stop trolling here asking breathless questions about how women get their jollies? Honestly, it's tiresome and anyone who thinks that they're just sharing details among the girls, get a clue. This guy is totally getting off on this. Uggh.
[ Reply | Options ]11.17.09, 07:13 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]lol~
[ Reply | Options ]11.17.09, 07:14 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]
2.5 months ago....we were ttc and it sucked...and I have had wicked morning sickness ever since. Poor dh.
[ Reply | Options ]11.17.09, 08:28 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]
[+] Reasons to have dc#2? 17 replies
- ), but I dont know if I want more NOW. its not financial. we can handle another one. its not space, we have 3 brs. its more just- I am really enjoying every moment with DS1, and I dont know i want to "taint" it yet with morning sickness, worries, insomnia (from pregnancy) and lack of sleep (from birth of baby)....
Talk : : November 16, 2009
-
To have a gang.
[ Reply | Options ]11.16.09, 08:50 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]you love strollers and poop, oh, and more trophy children fills a void in your life.
[ Reply | Options ]11.16.09, 09:52 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]can you afford it? how old is dc #1?
[ Reply | Options ]11.16.09, 09:55 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]You've decided that you don't want to sleep, after all. Highly overrated. But seriously, the only reasons should be because you really want another child, and a sibling for your dc.
[ Reply | Options ]11.17.09, 01:40 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]I'm struggling with the same question. I am really happy with my DS but feel pressure to have another since that's what people are "supposed" to do.
[ Reply | Options ]11.17.09, 04:40 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]single child homes are nor MORE common than 2 child homes. just FYI. it's your parents generation that thinks it's the thing to do.
[ Reply | Options ]11.17.09, 05:19 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]disagree- i think 3 is the new 2.
[ Reply | Options ]11.17.09, 05:52 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]please - 4 is the new three, you mean.
[ Reply | Options ]11.17.09, 10:37 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]
you are not "supposed" to have a second child and you should resist any pressure from anyone who tells you this.
[ Reply | Options ]11.17.09, 09:01 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]
to increase the odds that someone will take care of you when you are old.
[ Reply | Options ]11.17.09, 05:09 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]I think siblings are beneficial for children, someone to share not just toys but experiences with, and I like having more relational dynamics in our family. I've known many adult only children who always wanted a sibling, esp as their parents get older. Ultimately though you need to want to have another child.
[ Reply | Options ]11.17.09, 05:34 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]in case one dies u still have one
[ Reply | Options ]11.17.09, 05:50 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]So they have each other when you and DH pass on. To teach DC about sharing his or her life with someone. To have more laughter in the house.
[ Reply | Options ]11.17.09, 06:15 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]np: I like your answers.
[ Reply | Options ]11.17.09, 06:25 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]np: excellent response. we're happy with one, and this almost makes me want to rethink it!
[ Reply | Options ]11.17.09, 10:35 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]based on some of the stories i hear, number one is not necessarily true, you can teach dc to share without a sibling. laughter is a good one, though
[ Reply | Options ]11.17.09, 10:39 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]
OP I am strugling with the same question. I feel the pressure because everyone around here our age has 2-3 kids...I think I want more (actually, I know I want more), but I dont know if I want more NOW. its not financial. we can handle another one. its not space, we have 3 brs. its more just- I am really enjoying every moment with DS1, and I dont know i want to "taint" it yet with morning sickness, worries, insomnia (from pregnancy) and lack of sleep (from birth of baby).
[ Reply | Options ]11.17.09, 10:40 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]
[+] Anyone on here a Republican? If so, why? 177 replies
- , the guy who makes your triple latte in the morning) is just unhealthy--this is what leads to social unrest and...one of those "healthy, young people" who ended up getting sick with a chronic illness that keeps me from even being...
- Do you watch tv? Try every Sunday morning show...David Brooks and Bill Safire (RIP) on all those--sib!--Sunday morning shows. Somehow I must've missed all of those Sundays...
Talk : : November 16, 2009
Anyone on here a Republican? If so, why?
177 replies [ Reply | Watch | Options ]11.16.09, 07:03 PM [ Flag ]I'm a conservation, not a Republican.
[ Reply | Options ]11.16.09, 07:06 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]^^^ conservative. (Baby on my lap; it's hard to concentrate. Sorry.)
[ Reply | Options ]11.16.09, 07:07 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]NP: huh?
[ Reply | Options ]11.16.09, 07:07 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]Fiscal policies, republican not social on views. However, I do think this president is awful and because of him our children will be holding the burden. very very sad. And if anyone says it was GWB who got us into this mess should consider themselves uneducated considering it was Clinton who created this mortgage fiasco....and the economy imploded
[ Reply | Options ]11.17.09, 12:16 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]Well, it is important to remember that this mess was the brainchild of Phil Gramm, who pushed through, with enthusiastic support of the Republican majority legislature, the unraveling of the Glass-Steagall act. Clinton didn't come up with the idea, though I believe he bears some responsibility for signing it instead of vetoing it.
[ Reply | Options ]11.18.09, 10:44 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]
I am a liberation.
[ Reply | Options ]11.17.09, 03:47 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
Libertarian who often votes Conservative
[ Reply | Options ]11.16.09, 07:07 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]Libertarian as well. Have problems with both parties. The republican party is supposed to be the party of fiscal responsibility, but over the last few years they spend like drunken democrats. The democratic party has become a liberal parody of itself, totally abandoning its base, and its promises. Remember "transparency?" Remember Nancy Pelosi promising to put the full text of the Health reform bill on the internet 48 hours before the vote?
[ Reply | Options ]11.16.09, 07:27 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]NP: Liberatarian as well - if Republicans are not going to be fiscally sound then they get no vote from me - in fact prefer to be Socialist
[ Reply | Options ]11.17.09, 11:32 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]
I am a moderate republican. I typically am liberal concerning social issues and conservative regarding economic issues. We are middle class and taxed to death.
[ Reply | Options ]11.16.09, 07:07 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]yup
[ Reply | Options ]11.16.09, 07:09 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]i consider myself an independent who, in the last six months, has become dramatically more conservative. disgruntled about having voted for our bait-and-switch President.
[ Reply | Options ]11.16.09, 07:16 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]Ding! Ding! Ding!
[ Reply | Options ]11.16.09, 07:23 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]what exactly do you feel has been "bait and switched?" Seriously.
[ Reply | Options ]11.17.09, 11:07 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]crickets....
[ Reply | Options ]11.17.09, 11:14 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]Promises of a 'post-partisan presidency,' followed by the most hard-line left and progressive agenda this country has ever seen. I'm hardly alone in this. Obama's approval rating with independents is dropping like a stone - 7 percentage points last month alone.
[ Reply | Options ]11.17.09, 11:17 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]...not to mention the sinking feeling that all those people who decried his lack of experience were right. The man has the biggest Democratic majority in years and cannot seem to develop a coherent White House strategy and get Congress to implement it. I think he's out of his league and I'm upset I helped put him there.
[ Reply | Options ]11.17.09, 11:21 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]What's the "hard-line left agenda?" Seriously--I already have my disappointments too and I'm a lefty but I figure that's the price to pay for electing someone with such high expectations and idealism. I'd just love to hear what all of these "surprises" have been that Obama's pulled. And IMHO the GOP has sunk to new lows of pettiness, nastiness and well...poor sportsmanship for lack of a better word.
[ Reply | Options ]11.17.09, 12:03 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]The most popular Dem move of all - massive stimulus - that barely created any jobs as promised, the inevitable tax hike for a whole tier of the "95% of you who won't see your taxes go up a dime" due to the cost of healthcare, just to name a couple. i will admit to also just being fed up with him as a person - I want the guy I voted for, not this a$$hole who's up there seemingly talking down to 90% of America. I'm equally fed up with the Repubs, and agree with everything you said about their behavior.
[ Reply | Options ]11.17.09, 12:22 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]When my taxes actually go up, then I may agree with you on that point, but til then, it's just tired old GOP fear-mongering. In any case though, they're all taxes that we should have been paying to finance the wars--no one has ever cut taxes in wartime til GWB and now we're paying the price. Blaming Obama for a deficit that he didn't create is patently unfair.
[ Reply | Options ]11.17.09, 12:25 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]I think he was a Senator before this and GWB was balanced by a Democrat run Congress. You libs constantly forget this.
[ Reply | Options ]11.17.09, 03:17 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]wait--so you're holding him responsible for the deficit created in large part by Bush's war (which he was outspoken against) because he was a senator at the time? And was it or was it not Bush who cut taxes for the wealthy during wartime?
[ Reply | Options ]11.17.09, 03:21 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]Do you know how laws are passed? The Bush tax cuts were passed by a Democratic Congress. The Iraq war was approved by a Democratic Congress. Criticizing Bush is your prerogative, but please do it while pretending to have a slight grasp of Civics 101, and the not-so-distant past.
[ Reply | Options ]11.17.09, 03:43 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]wow, thanks, Mom. Still waiting to hear how Obama was responsible for all this, since if you watched nothing but FOX you'd assume that he brought the deficit with him as a house-warming present.
[ Reply | Options ]11.17.09, 03:50 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]erm...don't think Congress was Dem-controlled when we went to war. Check yer facts.
[ Reply | Options ]11.17.09, 04:19 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]Erm? You check your facts. Besides, these wars are not the sole reason we are in a mess. Thank Carter, then Frank, dodd, etc... They all played a HUGE part.
[ Reply | Options ]11.17.09, 04:47 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]LOL--Carter? You're blaming Carter now? And yeah--you might want to check that again. Dems didn't regain control of congress until 2006.
[ Reply | Options ]11.17.09, 05:01 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
I don't think the GOP has done anything worse than what the libs did to Bush. Does anyone remember the movie that "assassinated" him, there was a play about him, etc...
[ Reply | Options ]11.17.09, 03:12 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]LOL--please find the mainstream media outlet that gave voice and credence to people comparing Bush to Hitler, Stalin, Mao, and other murderous dictators, or elected officials saying or implying that he was un-American, un-patriotic, a liar, a Communist, etc.. Seriously--there is no comparison.
[ Reply | Options ]11.17.09, 03:25 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]msnbc,cnn, showing protestors, etc...
[ Reply | Options ]11.17.09, 03:53 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]um..."showing protestors?" Heavens forbid!! What on earth are you talking about? I'm not talking about news coverage (and there was minimal coverage of war protestors compared to FOX's lovefest with the teabaggers and their wild inflation of the numbers--claiming millions when the crowds were estimated at 70K). Seriously--when did a newscaster, a talk show host, or even a guest on any of these shows say anything comparable about Bush? I can't wait to hear...
[ Reply | Options ]11.17.09, 04:09 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]Do you watch tv? Try every Sunday morning show.... Still the left bashes Bush everytime they are backed into a corner. It's your mo. Move on it's getting old.
[ Reply | Options ]11.17.09, 04:50 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]Oh yeah--those lefties like George Will and David Brooks and Bill Safire (RIP) on all those--sib!--Sunday morning shows. Somehow I must've missed all of those Sundays when they were comparing Bush to Mussolini...
[ Reply | Options ]11.17.09, 05:04 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]um--you guys brought up Bush, not me--how mean we libs were to him, etc...
[ Reply | Options ]11.18.09, 09:03 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]
How about sneaking in the bill that federal jobs go to unions. Unions are crippling this country. There used to be a need for them, now they are way to corrupt. Obama's whole administration can't seem to pay there taxes, have shifty ties to lobbyists, etc... This from the guy who talked about "changing" the whole good ole boy network. Yeah, right. What has he done that is good? That's my question. He is an embarrassment to this country. Who gives the Queen of England an ipod with his speeches? Really?
[ Reply | Options ]11.17.09, 03:21 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
Amen!! He is a joke, but I am not laughing.
[ Reply | Options ]11.17.09, 03:22 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
Likewise. Gay marriage? Yes please. Social services for the poor? Yes please.
[ Reply | Options ]11.16.09, 07:14 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]but are you willing to pay taxes for the public services you want. Saying you want lower taxes without cutting services or wanting to cut services you don't use just makes you an economic meathead.
[ Reply | Options ]11.17.09, 10:10 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]don't try talking sense to her. and pls ask her how, if we really want to clamp down on the deficit, will we wrap up these two wars? Which of course, far out spend any health care reform.
[ Reply | Options ]11.17.09, 10:21 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]Oh yes, keep that liberal mind of yours open and tolerant of other opinions.
[ Reply | Options ]11.17.09, 10:32 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]You called me a liberal. I never stated my party. Fool.
[ Reply | Options ]11.17.09, 10:34 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]
Well, while I am all for rights I do feel that we subsidize WAAAAAAAAAAAY too many people. I do not want so many social services. Not interested in socialism, thank you.
[ Reply | Options ]11.17.09, 10:31 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]We subsize big industries WAAAAAAAAAAAY more than we do poor people. Does that bother you too, or is it just the folks getting wellie cheese that bug you?
[ Reply | Options ]11.17.09, 11:12 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]crickets, yet again. wow. where are the really well informed conservatives???
[ Reply | Options ]11.17.09, 11:15 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]NP: she said she thinks we subsidize too many people. you countered with a comment about subsidizing big industry. she is entitled to her view regarding subsidies for individuals and social services, and it's not inconsistent with her supporting subsidies for industry. But to you she's not "well-informed" enough. The answer to your question is the well-informed conservatives don't waste their breath getting into arguments with liberals who are always looking for an excuse to discount conservatives' reasoning and intellects instead of engaging on the issues.
[ Reply | Options ]11.17.09, 11:31 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]man--that is a weak, weak response. And actually there are two different posters here, so you're getting scrambled. I asked WAAAAAAY whether it was just subsidizing the poor, disabled, elderly, etc. that bugged her and I heard nothing...but now you're popping up and letting me know that well-informed conservatives just don't want to waste their time arguing with the likes of me? So--you let the extremist windbags, imbeciles and haters take the stage on your behalf while you sit out and have a cigarette? Maybe that's why your party in in the sh*tter.
[ Reply | Options ]11.17.09, 12:23 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]Go ahead and assume the Republican party's in the sh*tter, and see what happens in 2010. Let me guess where you grew up - somewhere in the Northeast or some sort of insular UMC environment where you had canned "diverse" experiences that you think permit you to assume you're more cultured and aware than the right. You're welcome to your caricatured view of conservatives, but the nutjobs shouting on the Capitol steps are outliers, and they do not account for the vast number of smart, deep-thinking people who simply have a healthy suspicion of big govt. In focusing entirely on the Michelle Bachmann loonies, you're missing the fact that in the rest of the country, plenty of people who were moderates are prepared to vote Republican, because all they see is that half the people on their block are out of work.
[ Reply | Options ]11.17.09, 12:47 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]LOL--glad we agree that it's the nut jobs who are running your party. If you so-called "deep-thinking" conservatives had any balls, intelligence or ideas, you'd run them out of town. Instead they're running the show and you should be truly embarrassed to count yourself among them OR to have let them hijack your party. Also--please keep telling yourself that only Republicans live in the "real world." From what I've seen the past few years, it's the left that has their ideas planted in reality and the GOP that's rushed off to war based on revenge fantasies, lies and foolish conjecture and now spends most of its time creating conspiracy theories about whether Obama was born in Kenya or how Obamacare's going to kill Grandma. If you really have something better to offer, now's the time to dish it up.
[ Reply | Options ]11.17.09, 02:01 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]where is the rest of your response? also, with respect to the many "your party" references - i'd simply note that nowhere have i stated that I am a Republican. On the contrary - I am a moderate, independent, former Obama supporter prepared to vote straight-ticket Republican in 2010 and 2012. Oh, and before you stereotype me, I'm a highly-educated litigator living in Manhattan. Voters like me are exactly why the Dems should be scared - they no longer have a lock on who they think their "base" is. No revenge fantasies, lies and foolish conjecture swayed me -- just took a realistic look at where our country is headed.
[ Reply | Options ]11.17.09, 02:38 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]Whatever--keep calling yourself a "moderate" "independent"...blah blah blah. Makes it easier to disavow any responsibility for anything, doesn't it? I really can't see how anything that Obama has done since you allegedly voted for him surprises you--did you have issues with GWB bailing out the banks, or you just don't like it when Obama does it? What vision of "where our country is headed" captivated you a scant year ago and has now shattered? Are you just bummed out that he didn't manage to fix the world economy within eleven months? Yeah--what an a-hole, right?
[ Reply | Options ]11.17.09, 03:47 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]BRAVA!!! Great reply. ANd she did not vote for O.
[ Reply | Options ]11.18.09, 09:01 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]
Yeah b/c Pelosi, Frank, and Jefferson (oops he's going to jail) are such winners. Also, those wars you keep jabbering about? Democrats controlled Congress and voted to go - so come back when you are more informed.
[ Reply | Options ]11.17.09, 03:28 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]Do you get your ideas from Maddow and Olberman? Democrats were the ones that voted for these wars!!
[ Reply | Options ]11.17.09, 03:30 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
(contd) all they see is that a third of the people on their block are out of work.
[ Reply | Options ]11.17.09, 12:49 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]Sorry that I am too busy to sit by the computer waiting for the first pseudo-tolerant blindly Democratic poster to respond.
[ Reply | Options ]11.17.09, 02:26 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
I miss them--I really do. I feel as if there's no intellectual weight or leaning in the party anymore--it's all playing to the lowest common denominator. Ugh.
[ Reply | Options ]11.17.09, 12:00 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]Working to pay for the poor.
[ Reply | Options ]11.17.09, 03:41 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]HAHAHA. Best post ever. I did notice an increase in conservative responders after quitting time.
[ Reply | Options ]11.17.09, 03:45 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]LOL. So true
[ Reply | Options ]11.17.09, 06:05 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
Exactly. I have known so many poor people who were poor because of their own lack of ambition. I hate to think I'm subsiding them in any way shape or form.
[ Reply | Options ]11.17.09, 04:09 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]You have known "so many poor people"? Why don't I believe you, somehow?
[ Reply | Options ]11.17.09, 04:57 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
They are subsidized so people have jobs. I guess that point is lost on you.
[ Reply | Options ]11.17.09, 06:02 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
The question to which I responded was regarding social services. I agree. The big industry stuff is out of control too.
[ Reply | Options ]11.17.09, 02:23 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]Are you serious? Who is going to provide the jobs in your world? Not the people standing in line waiting for the govt. to take care of them. We really need to switch to the Fair Tax plan. If we had a sales tax on consumption, everyone would have to pay. Equally. Then the big industries as you say would stay in the country and not leave ( or hide their money offshore). The govt. would still get all the money for their programs but the taxpayers would see what pennies on the dollar goes to which program.
[ Reply | Options ]11.17.09, 03:15 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]We actually don't. The big industries are the ones who create jobs. Not the people waiting for the govt. to take care of them. We need to be more friendly towards corporations or they will all leave and go to other countries more friendly. Then how will we pay for the poor?
[ Reply | Options ]11.17.09, 03:40 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
In what form? The form of, say, public schools? Do you think people should have to pay direct cash instead of taxes for their children to attend school, and if you're poor, those kids are SOL? Sounds like a third-world country to me.
[ Reply | Options ]11.17.09, 12:02 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
heard about people like you, you want to enjoy it all without the cost, you are a republican!!!!
[ Reply | Options ]11.17.09, 02:54 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]hardly! people like you either a) enjoy huge sums of money and have no sense how difficult it is to get by in this world on a middle class income or b) expect others to provide everything for you.
[ Reply | Options ]11.17.09, 05:35 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]^^ I am guess you are a) since you seem to know how to spell and are somewhat witty. Please confirm after you finish shopping for your new Hermes bag while your nanny raises your 1 yr old and your 3 year old enjoys attending a $20k/yr preschool.
[ Reply | Options ]11.17.09, 05:40 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]said 3 y.o. was a legacy at preschool.
[ Reply | Options ]11.17.09, 06:02 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]So when you fly, do you keep your nanny up in First Class with you or do you make her sit Coach?
[ Reply | Options ]11.17.09, 06:43 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
Yes I am but don't admire many of the republican party members. I admire the philosophy which gets lost sometimes.
[ Reply | Options ]11.16.09, 07:09 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]ITA.
[ Reply | Options ]11.17.09, 10:05 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]
As our HHI climbs ever higher, I'm thinking about switching. I really don't give a damn about Hoi Polloi and I'd like to see my taxes go down.
[ Reply | Options ]11.16.09, 07:19 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]I feel exactly the same way.
[ Reply | Options ]11.17.09, 09:29 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]you guys are gross
[ Reply | Options ]11.17.09, 09:45 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]why? because we dont pretend to vote on social issues but actually care about what is best for our families?
[ Reply | Options ]11.17.09, 09:56 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]No, because you seem to be unable to see past your own selfish interests. It's just depressing. Not to mention, increasing the divide between the wealthy and what you call the "hoi polloi" (which includes, presumably, the policemen and firefighters who protect your house, the teacher who educates your kids, the guy who makes your triple latte in the morning) is just unhealthy--this is what leads to social unrest and revolutions. No point trying to isolate yourself from the rest of society.
[ Reply | Options ]11.17.09, 10:05 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]what does it have to do with isolation? btw I am not the one who referred to baristas (et al) as "hoi polloi." there are two posters here. I was only agreeing with hating to see my taxes increase. what does that have to do with social unrest? I am not pretentious, I just hate paying 50% of what I make into big govt which I firmly dont believe in.
[ Reply | Options ]11.17.09, 10:15 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]so what do you believe in. Big gov't is really just code for TWO BIG EXPENSIVE WARS. We could change health crae, education and have a major push on public works/infrastructure for LESS than the wars. Your thinking is so narrow. And assuming you fume over your income/property tax sitch, your issue is state and local, not fed.
[ Reply | Options ]11.17.09, 10:26 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]thank you! I do NOT understand why spending hundreds of millions a day on two wars of choice doesn't seem to count against the GOP ledger, while God forbid we offer lower-cost health care to working American citizens. Or why Michele Bachmann and her loathsome ilk weren't out protesting when they passed the prescription drug benefit. GWB increased the size of the gov't considerably and I don't remember GOP'ers out marching with signs calling him a Nazi-Socialist...
[ Reply | Options ]11.17.09, 10:37 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]oR: It's simple. GWB, passed everything under the cover of darkness ( two wars) and the Rx bill helps mostly the senior population, who votes largely right wing. Also, the right only fears socialism if it benefits the poor or immigrants. They LOVE SS and medicare. That brand of socialism makes them wet their pants with joy.
[ Reply | Options ]11.17.09, 10:47 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]The GOP didn't create SS - dems did. Most younger Republicans don't want SS or medicare. It's the old people that have payed into it for so long.
[ Reply | Options ]11.17.09, 03:43 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]GWB did not pass things under the cover of darkness. The dems controlled congress for the last four years of his term - you guys voted for this war.
[ Reply | Options ]11.17.09, 03:45 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]who is "you guys?" And check your records--Dem's did not control Congress in 2003.
[ Reply | Options ]11.17.09, 04:22 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
I love this type of MSNBC endorsed b*llsh(*t! congress has been democrtically controlled for the past 5 freaken years. nothing was passed under a "cover of darkess." review voting records, get your facts straight. YOU GUYS (DEMOCRATS!!!) voted for the war. and being a republican doesnt necessarily = being pro iraq. stop making it like that is the ONNNNNLY issue on the menu .
[ Reply | Options ]11.17.09, 03:51 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]um--YOU check the voting records. Not as straightforward as you'd like to believe. Are you really claiming that there wasn't a strong bi-partisan element, not to mention that it was GWB and his lying, conspiring conies who provided the false evidence that led them to that vote? And God knows, it's NOT the only issue on the table, but it's one we'll be paying for forever in mroe ways than one.
[ Reply | Options ]11.17.09, 04:24 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
I very consciously didn't say "the Hoi Polloi" because that's incorrect. It's simply "Hoi Polloi" as "hoi" means "the" in Greek.
[ Reply | Options ]11.17.09, 03:55 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
In other words, "I want what's best for ME ME ME and fuck everyone else." If that's how you feel, go buy a goddamn island and live on it alone.
[ Reply | Options ]11.17.09, 12:03 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]Yep. Especially since most of the great unwashed vote against their own interests anyway-- Republicans would never get elected if more of the lower class would actually vote for their own economic interests instead of becoming hopelessly distracted by non-issues like preventing the gays from getting married. They, as a bloc, disgust me so fuck them.
[ Reply | Options ]11.17.09, 04:06 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]You disgust me. Who actually uses phrases like "the great unwashed"?
[ Reply | Options ]11.17.09, 04:56 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
so i guess social issues have nothing to do with your family. i guess this is the admirable republican philosophy.
[ Reply | Options ]11.17.09, 02:48 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]I have a gay brother who also votes republican based on his fiances. When he gets married, he'll do it in one of the states where it's legal. We both think that the idiot mouthbreathers will die off in a generation or two and gays will get equal rights no matter what our party affiliation is.
[ Reply | Options ]11.17.09, 04:08 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]Wow--that's a great philosophy. Vote for the people who loathe and despise you because it's financially convenient but let those lefty suckers fight for your rights in some other state. Pathologically selfish, lazy and morally bankrupt. Please don't move to my state (where gay marriage is legal, thanks to a lot of courageous gay people and thousands of empathetic people who support them).
[ Reply | Options ]11.17.09, 05:08 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
so you want to turn USA into a banana republic? where taxes are low, public services non-existent and the rich are afraid to leave their fortresses w/o armed guards.
[ Reply | Options ]11.17.09, 10:12 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]no, but I do think there is a balance between socialism [aka where we seem to be headed] and a banana republic.
[ Reply | Options ]11.17.09, 10:16 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]you're ignorance is laughable. How much of our budget is spent on defense? Do you know?
[ Reply | Options ]11.17.09, 10:29 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]maybe the worst sentence ever in which to have a typo. try "your ignorance is laughable."
[ Reply | Options ]11.17.09, 10:31 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]a typo does not = ignorance. Why not just answer the question?
[ Reply | Options ]11.17.09, 12:04 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
You're ignorant. The majority of the federal government's spending is already on social services -- Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid. Basically, the U.S. government can be understood, to a first approximation, as a giant pension fund with a side-line in defense and homeland security. Everything else is almost a rounding error.
[ Reply | Options ]11.17.09, 12:43 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]WRONG!!!! 60% of the budget is allocated and spent on defense. GET YOUR FACTS STRAIGHT. THIS IS NOT A LEFT?RIGHT ISSUE. IT'S A FACT. Dimwit.
[ Reply | Options ]11.17.09, 12:52 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]Right. Idiot. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2009_United_States_federal_budget
[ Reply | Options ]11.17.09, 12:54 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]It's 36% plus 18% entitlements. Pls stop with the wikipedia non facts.
[ Reply | Options ]11.17.09, 01:09 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]Whose not providing facts here? How about this, straight from those lying liars at the U.S. Census Bureau -- table 453, "Federal Budget Outlays By Type", is probably most useful:
[ Reply | Options ]11.17.09, 01:28 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
Nice try, shit-stirrer.
[ Reply | Options ]11.17.09, 10:59 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]
Make that 3 Libertarians! I tend to vote Republican. I think the government should stay out of people's lives. However, the Republican party has sold out to the "moral majority." Even though I vote Republican, someone else's marital partner, choice to have an abortion, or "family values" is not my business, and so I break from the party here.
[ Reply | Options ]11.17.09, 09:25 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]I guess Id call myself a libertarian if I reallythought about it. But have always voted republican. definitely a right wing conservative when it comes to economic issues, but find myself more middle of the fence on some social issues. thing is tough, when it comes down to the wire...$ talks....and I am first and foremost concerned with what will be best for me and my immediate family. social issues notwithstanding.
[ Reply | Options ]11.17.09, 09:31 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]What's best for your family in terms of money-right? Do don't give a shit about the country's moral compass and big picture issues. Just let your kids deal with it when they grow up and you're dead? Is that it?
[ Reply | Options ]11.17.09, 10:32 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]yup. exactly.
[ Reply | Options ]11.17.09, 10:54 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]It never ceases to amaze me how openly selfish and stupid some economic conservatives are. It always comes down to, "But that isn't what's best FOR ME." Total tunnel vision, like a society where poor people are dying of swine flu and TB because they can't afford treatment is best for anyone. And not to mention that they bitch about illegal immigrants "taking tax dollars away" but then employ them as nannies and gardeners.
[ Reply | Options ]11.17.09, 12:13 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]Fine, where do you draw the line? How much should someone be taxed to pay for other people's healthcare?
[ Reply | Options ]11.17.09, 12:46 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]just enough so when you or your DH lose your insurance your and your family are left standing in the wind hugging your heart disease, diabetes or worse. ass wipe.
[ Reply | Options ]11.17.09, 12:55 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]Apparently you are afraid to answer the question. Nice.
[ Reply | Options ]11.17.09, 12:57 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]I'm so very afraid. I believe that in the US, the great country on the planet - ALL citizens should have health care. And, I believinstead of paying for wars we shouldn't be in, we should pay for superior public education, superior health care.
[ Reply | Options ]11.17.09, 01:02 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]Still waiting for that answer...
[ Reply | Options ]11.17.09, 01:05 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]Obviously, you lack reading comprehsion. She told what where to draw the line. When everybody is covered and can afford ins. Are you happy to be obtuse or are you dim?
[ Reply | Options ]11.17.09, 01:12 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]No, she is not answering the question. Let me state it more precisely -- how high are you willing to raise marginal tax rates to accomplish that goal. Are you afraid to use a number?
[ Reply | Options ]11.17.09, 01:32 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]You know, different people are responding to you, genius, it's not a private conversation. I think it's reasonable to tax wealthy people at up to 50% of their income, actually. I do. Call me a Commie. You still have plenty more disposable income than the rest of the country, what more do you f*cking want?
[ Reply | Options ]11.17.09, 02:05 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]Umm, that was the kind of answer I was curious about. Taking half of everything someone earns sounds a little unfair to me, but YMMV. I do not believe that will be enough to fund the kinds of health programs people are talking about here.
[ Reply | Options ]11.17.09, 02:28 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
was more liberal until it came to healthcare-- you get what you pay for. if you don't compensate doctors you will attract less capable people into the profession. i also dont know of any patients being turned away from any hospital that i have worked at. so when you need to see a specialist and are told you need to wait 6 months to get in- lets see what you think about the new system
[ Reply | Options ]11.17.09, 09:34 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]Did you see Keith Olbermann last night and all of the people who came to the free clinic they held in New Orleans. It was kind of jaw-dropping. And before anyone starts screaming about welfare, 83% of the people who came had jobs, just no health coverage. They had to take 4 people directly to the hospital, discovered tons of high blood pressure, diabetes, etc. It was so depressing. So I'd still love to hear any reasonable solution to this problem from the people cursing Obamacare.
[ Reply | Options ]11.17.09, 09:43 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]Keith Olbermann has as blatant of a leftist agenda as Fox does for the right. That free clinic coverage is his show's equivalent of town hall coverage - it may be true, but each network will blow it out of proportion to fit into their preconceived narratives.
[ Reply | Options ]11.17.09, 09:53 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]np: but there's no question there are a lot ofuninsired people out there and even without any legislative action premiums are going to go way up. so fine, hate the existing proposals -- but what is an alternative?
[ Reply | Options ]11.17.09, 09:55 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]yes, I understand that, though I do believe that Olbermann usually sticks to facts and does not make outlandish ad hominem attacks (or inflate the numbers at an event from 70,000 to over 1,000,000, for example). I'm just saying--given how many working people in this country cannot afford decent health care, what is the right's solution except to call Obama a Socialist/Communist/baby-killing/grandma-exterminating Kenyan terrorist?
[ Reply | Options ]11.17.09, 09:59 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]Olbermann is a jackass and his personal life is testament to that. oh by the way, he like his party does not stick to facts--like the new economic term they invented, saved jobs. he is a pig!
[ Reply | Options ]11.17.09, 10:11 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]LOL! I will put up Keith Olbermann's personal life against that of Bill O'Reilly, Glenn Beck, or Rush Limbaugh ANY DAY. You're really walking on pretty thin ice there.
[ Reply | Options ]11.17.09, 10:39 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]ha. which party sticks to the facts? Please enlighten me? Seriously. I would like to hear what you have to say.
[ Reply | Options ]11.17.09, 10:39 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]OR (to the "did you watch Olbermann" post): whoever this crazy is who hijacked this starting with "Olbermann is a jackass" is not me! use NP people!
[ Reply | Options ]11.17.09, 10:45 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]ita--it's gotten to hard to tell which post is responding to which...
[ Reply | Options ]11.17.09, 11:08 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]
NP: I was a big proponent of the Wyden Amendment, which would have allowed those of us who get insurance from our employers to shop on the insurance exchange, too. So a young and relatively healthy person can get a cheaper plan that makes sense for them, an older person can get more robust coverage. most importantly, health care insurance companies cannot count on having millions upon millions of guaranteed and generally captive customers via the employer-based system. I think something like this, coupled with a mandate/subsidies and a set of regulations that prohibit the bullsh*t denials of coverage and games insurance companies now play would do a lot of good. imo, Congressional leadership and the Pres are just too far left to see the good that unleashing some properly regulated market forces and incentives might do here.
[ Reply | Options ]11.17.09, 10:17 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]...good that unleashing some properly regulated market forces and incentives might do here.
[ Reply | Options ]11.17.09, 10:18 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]
I'll tell you why I have a problem with it-- a) because we cannot afford it b) the government SUCKS at managing healthcare-get medicade right and leave medicade alone 3)someone has to pay for it--meaning us-meaning my nice benefit of having a job will go right out the window and I will likely have to PAY 15-20k out of pocket for obamacare 4) I don't believe medicine should be a for profit business-and once obama taxes the medical establishment they will pass those costs right down to the consumer..ME--so it really isn't OBAMA CARE--it is I am Paying for your ass CARE
[ Reply | Options ]11.17.09, 10:10 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]^^and fwiw I think it is a national tragedy that we cannot provide healthcare for our citizens--but this isn't the way to do it
[ Reply | Options ]11.17.09, 10:11 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]but do you have any idea how we can?
[ Reply | Options ]11.17.09, 10:14 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]i do--i think we should give medical students a break on their tuitions or do something like teach for America and have new young doctors man some clinics and I think drug companies and medical companies can help fund this mess and I am ALL FOR a sin tax -at least it is a start
[ Reply | Options ]11.17.09, 10:18 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]you MUST gives med students a break. you can't justify $100k plus in tuition if you are goinng to come out of training making $65k (that's after 4 yrs med school and a minimum of 4 yrs of residency)
[ Reply | Options ]11.17.09, 12:26 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]then dont go, honey. I am well aware that I may not make as much as my predecessors going into this. I am NOT gunning for neurosurgery. I want to be an internist because I love medicine. and if I make 90K post taxes rather than 160k, the so be it. (and ps, I am a republican too!). but what IS your point? society owes "us" free tuition because we work so hard in school? if you feel that way, then go the MSTP route. that is free.
[ Reply | Options ]11.17.09, 02:42 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]Sorry--I don't know any doctors that make $65K post-residency. Sure they work their *sses off, but they're all doing very well.
[ Reply | Options ]11.17.09, 03:41 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]welcome to obamacare. where we are all on ourway to being government employees servingthe common good, in primary care for salaries of70k/yr! i am thrilled!
[ Reply | Options ]11.17.09, 03:59 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]So why does the AMA support the health care bill AND a public option?
[ Reply | Options ]11.17.09, 05:09 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
What are you talking about when you say "the government SUCKS at managing healthcare." The most efficient purchaser of medical care in the world is the US government. You can argue against their practices. You can complain about the process. But there is no rational argument that they don't manage paying for Medicare well.
[ Reply | Options ]11.17.09, 10:18 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]billions in fraud? really? Oh and not to mention that the washington elite are exempt from obama care because they have their nice federally funded healthcare that won't be touched
[ Reply | Options ]11.17.09, 10:20 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]I think any fraud is unacceptable and I would love to see tighter control on payments. But we are talking about an almost $500B program. Do you really think Kaiser or Aetna or HIP are getting more dollars into patient care than the Medicare system? NFW!
[ Reply | Options ]11.17.09, 10:32 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]
and our seniors have pretty good health outcomes as compared to other coutries. unlike everyone else.
[ Reply | Options ]11.17.09, 10:21 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]now they do yes--but how do you think they are going to pay for obama care--they are going to take from the one program that protects our seniors
[ Reply | Options ]11.17.09, 10:31 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]np: What is wrong with that? If my 102 year old grandmother not getting the top of the line new hip means that my cousin gets routine health care, I'm cool with that. And you know what, my grandmother ought to be, too.
[ Reply | Options ]11.17.09, 10:36 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]LOL--I agree. Why should all the money go to Grandpa's Viagra?
[ Reply | Options ]11.17.09, 10:41 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]ITTTA, but this is lost on the vast majority of ppl. Everyone is so lazy to find out the facts. Like my dad telling me, what happens if he needs an organ transplant? Well - in NY state, the wait for a kidney is 7 effing years!!! We are worse off in so many ways than the places we claim to hate ( canada, UK, France) The last time I wentto my GP, there we're 20 ppl in the waiting room. And he is a very well respected MD in effing Scarsdale! Come on ppl. Wake up!
[ Reply | Options ]11.17.09, 11:04 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]LOL--true! I just love the whole "government death panel" and "rationing" thing, like Aetna or Kaiser Permanente is really just dying to cover Granma's hp replacement out of the goodness of their little hearts. Oh, and the latest crap about how Obama has "failed" to get flu vaccines out on time...as if it weren't private companies manufacturing the vaccine, not that I blame them either.
[ Reply | Options ]11.17.09, 11:11 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]or: forget grandma. My 50 year old, breast cancer survivor cousin has aggressive cervical cancer. Her insurance is delaying her approval. WTF is wrong with this country???? Oh, and while we're at it. Crush edu. spending and by all means let's pay for a few more years of these wars - to save face. Then, when the vets get home. Deny them benefits. Wait for them to go psycho from PTSD, and complain they are homelss, their families are on welfare and eff them and their substance abuse.
[ Reply | Options ]11.17.09, 11:22 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]preach it, sister. I'm one of those "healthy, young people" who ended up getting sick with a chronic illness that keeps me from even being able to buy life insurance. Thank God I have a decent job and live in a state where you can't discriminate against pre-existing conditions, otherwise I might as well be dead. And yes--agreed on the vets, and hey--why spend $$$ on public schools when lobbyists are working so hard to build more (privately run) jails to house all of those drop-outs AND to change sentencing requirements to ensure a constant supply of new jailbirds? It's the American way!
[ Reply | Options ]11.17.09, 12:08 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]I think you are missing the really nefarious part of this... what they do is so completely fuck the Vets vis-a-vis mental health care that the Vets self medicate. This then allows the chicken hawk douchebags to ignore them because they are junkies.
[ Reply | Options ]11.17.09, 12:21 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]punish the insurance companies-- not the doctors!!
[ Reply | Options ]11.17.09, 12:25 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]but come on--if those vets had any kind of intelligence they would've gotten six deferments like certain VPs we know...and then they could be war profiteers and not junkies! Silly rabbit...
[ Reply | Options ]11.17.09, 12:42 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]np: I actually think that was her point.
[ Reply | Options ]11.17.09, 01:23 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]His point. I think you and the poster above both have the same POV. (As do I.) I'm thining of Al Franken's book right now...
[ Reply | Options ]11.17.09, 02:05 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
thank you--well said.
[ Reply | Options ]11.17.09, 10:40 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]Medicare is great for its beneficiaries. The problem is we can't actually afford it, and I've got a problem sticking our grandchildren with the bill.
[ Reply | Options ]11.17.09, 12:45 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
it's Medicaid, btw, not Medicade--it's not a beverage. And Medicaid is different from Medicare. But then again, reading the rest of your nonsensical post, I'm not surprised that you're a little foggy.
[ Reply | Options ]11.17.09, 11:21 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]oops--I made a mistake--feel better now? Get a life
[ Reply | Options ]11.17.09, 12:27 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]LOL--trust me, your whole post is idiotic. You don't believe in for-profit health care? What do you think--the insurance companies and hospitals all operate out of sheer love until the nasty ol' government comes along and ruins everything? And yeah--check back in when you're actually paying "$15-20K out of pocket" for health care. The thing is,you probably believe all this crap and yet think global warming issome kind of hoax invented by Al Gore. Again--this is why your party has become a laughingstock. Good luck with Palin 2012!
[ Reply | Options ]11.17.09, 12:41 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]and you will see how your one term president will do--i never said I was a republican btw
[ Reply | Options ]11.17.09, 12:43 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]oh yeah, that's right--you're all "independents"now, meaning you can dodge responsibility for anything that the GOP did and now spend all your time whining and sh*tting all over Obama. Nice. Why don't you and Joe Lieberman go get a cup of coffee? I'm sure he could use some company, now that he's betrayed everything he ever pretended to stand for.
[ Reply | Options ]11.17.09, 01:40 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
You're basically making GWB's argument against health care reform ("we don't need it, people can always go to the emergency room"), which should be a big clue you're on the wrong track.
[ Reply | Options ]11.17.09, 11:10 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]
you are all so stupid--do you really believe after every administration has failed to put forth a responsible health care program, Pelosi and Obama are going to be the ones who do it successfully? take your blinders off
[ Reply | Options ]11.17.09, 12:16 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]Why should I say yes? So you can throw stones at me.
[ Reply | Options ]11.17.09, 12:17 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]no kidding.
[ Reply | Options ]11.17.09, 12:51 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
I don't know why anyone would have a political disagreement on a forum like UB but I'm a conservative Republican and you probably have more in common with me on the issues than you do with Barack Obama. (I'm for gay marriage, for example, from a conservative perspective--marriage is good for society, in all its forms). But few of you would listen to me past the word Republican. Total knee-jerk reaction to the word.
[ Reply | Options ]11.17.09, 02:53 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]well-said. i'm convinced the poster is also the card-carrying liberal fanatic who's been shooting down all the ideas expressed in the posts.
[ Reply | Options ]11.17.09, 03:26 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]Point taken. I've actually always been boggled why "conservatives" don't support gay marriage for exactly that reason--isn't marriage a fundamentally conservative institution? But why do so many of the so-called Republicans here shy away from their party or say "oh, I'm a conservative/ Independent/ Libertarian" and "I hated Bush too" etc. I understand not loving the way party politics works in this country--I'm not a yellow dog Dem by any means, but if you all feel as if your party is being run by a bunchof hysterical loons who are betraying the fundamentals of conservatism, then why aren't you doing something about it? And yes, when Dems voted for the war (encouraged, btw, by false info and the "you're with us or you're against us" mentality) I was pissed, wrote letters, made phone calls and supported the few dissenters.
[ Reply | Options ]11.17.09, 03:39 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]How do you know the "so-called Republicans" aren't doing anything about it? Because it isn't sensational enough to be covered by the media or they haven't annointed a candidate for 2012 yet? No serious Presidential candidate ever emerges this far in advance of a race, and much is being done by serious, sane Republican leaders at the state and local level. The recent governors' races in NJ and VA attest to that. I assure you that right now there are forward-thinking, mature, smart Republican leaders devising the very strategies that are going to knock the Democratic majority into oblivion next year. Lindsey Graham, Haley Barbour - these names ring a bell? You probably have never stopped to listen to them because you assume they're stupid because of the way they talk. The Republican party is not wanting for leadership, but I'd imagine it's content to have the Dems think that it is, for the time being. Don't underestimate them. Any ardent Obama supporter should know better than to dismiss a campaign that some deem a long shot.
[ Reply | Options ]11.17.09, 04:05 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]stupid because of the way they talk. The Republican party is not suffering the leadership void the media would have you believe it is. Besides, any ardent Obama supporter should know better than to underestimate what some people may deem a long-shot.
[ Reply | Options ]11.17.09, 04:09 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]I'm the admitted conservative Republican above. The truth is, these things work in cycles. In 2001, I actually wrote about how my friends were "liberal", "socialist", "leftist", "progressive" but not a Democrat among them. Because Democrats didn't stand for anything back then (let's remember, Bush had overwhelming support from Democrats for Iraq, Patriot Act, No Child Left Behind, Medicare reform, etc.). People don't like when their chosen party stands for nothing. I think a lot of conservatives and libertarians don't identify as Republicans because Republicans aren't preaching the messages they want to hear. We're for reducing the size of government so how can we be Republicans with a straight face with the way Bush grew govt. and Republican congressmembers voting for all the bailouts. I still consider myself a Republican, only for ease, only because the Democrats represent my opinions even less.
[ Reply | Options ]11.18.09, 10:44 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]
If you're 20 and not a liberal you have no heart. But if you're 40 and not a conservative you have no brain. Is that enough of a reason. BTW, I didn't like W. I did like Reagan. If the Republicans bring up a candidate like him in 2012, Obama will be No-bama. For all the Libs that think Iraq was a W. only event, for the record, the two democratic senators and my democratic congressman (Nadler) voted for that horribly misguided policy.
[ Reply | Options ]11.17.09, 05:56 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]Important to remember that the Congress was actively misled, thus Democrats supported the war.
[ Reply | Options ]11.18.09, 10:45 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]I love how that idiot Bush and his gang of morons was able to mislead the geniuses in Congress (the Senate was controlled by the Democrats at the time). How does that work, exactly? And if he really meant to "mislead" about WMD in Iraq, how hard would it be to just plant them? And finally, if Iraq never had WMD, how did they use them on the Kurds in the north following the first Gulf War?
[ Reply | Options ]11.18.09, 02:14 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
[+] Morning sickness: I feel fine all day long but then at 5pm sharp I start to feel tota... 1 reply
- movie time in your bed with toddler? I had night time morning sickness too and it was terrible. Just hang in there, it doesnt last forever...
Talk : : November 16, 2009
Morning sickness: I feel fine all day long but then at 5pm sharp I start to feel totally sick. WOHM and so sad that for most of the time I see my toddler, I feel just wretched and am waiting for him to go to sleep.
1 reply [ Reply | Watch | Options ]11.16.09, 02:01 PM [ Flag ]movie time in your bed with toddler? I had night time morning sickness too and it was terrible. Just hang in there, it doesnt last forever
[ Reply | Options ]11.16.09, 02:17 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
[+] I can't get over the email that NEST's general fund participation rate is less than 1... 188 replies
- one over the other - never hear this kid of communication - I suppose I can quit my job and go to the morning meetings but then school still will not get money....
- agree, I wrote one check for $1000 and that's it. I like that it's tax deductible and easy. So sick and tired of all those messages for everything else. Also, why is there a class-specific wish list that includes paper from...
Talk : : November 15, 2009
I can't get over the email that NEST's general fund participation rate is less than 15%. Since this is anonymous, if you haven't given, can you say why? Because I'm kind of feeling like a sucker.
188 replies [ Reply | Watch | Options ]11.15.09, 05:28 PM [ Flag ]i think that people at g&ts tend to feel entitled in general (what can you do for me, not what can i do for you) and that nest is the absolute worst in this regard.
[ Reply | Options ]11.15.09, 05:30 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]Can't speak for Nest, but I don't get that sense at Anderson.
[ Reply | Options ]11.15.09, 05:49 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]plenty of involvement at anderson, but it's the exception to the rule.
[ Reply | Options ]11.15.09, 05:52 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]Not true at NEST either - I don
[ Reply | Options ]11.15.09, 07:15 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]I don't get the claim of entitlement - many families make huge efforts in terms of time and money just to get to the place.
[ Reply | Options ]11.15.09, 07:16 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
Not at all. At our school (and others I am familiar with) the G&T families are more likely to give (and also volunteer) than the gen ed families. I think NEST's problem is more the K-12 aspect, the participation is much much lower in HS and also MS than in the elementary grades.
[ Reply | Options ]11.15.09, 06:03 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
I agree, it's awful. We gave a lot so far. My only thought is that -- it's still early in the year. Maybe people will give more. But it's such a shame. They want the great education for their kids, but don't feel like spending a dime to support it.
[ Reply | Options ]11.15.09, 05:34 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]I think it was 15% last year, too (throughout the year._
[ Reply | Options ]11.15.09, 05:37 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
I don't have a dc at NEST (or any school yet). I think you need to remember the economy is bad and a lot of people are hurting. I'm getting quite upset with the number of charities that are calling asking for donations and when I say I can't help right now and before I can hang up start to tell me how I'm depriving others. My financial situation isn't good and I can't help. I shouldn't be made to explain this.
[ Reply | Options ]11.15.09, 05:37 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]rif raf
[ Reply | Options ]11.15.09, 05:49 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]how can you compare the police athletic league with your dc's school?? and i know for a fact there are plenty of comfortable families at nest. they just choose not to contribute because they can't be bothered. free is free as far as they are concerned.
[ Reply | Options ]11.15.09, 05:51 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]If people have been laid off, or had pay cuts they simply don't have any money to give to anyone.
[ Reply | Options ]11.15.09, 05:54 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]how do you know they are not contributing? perhaps the ones who can, do contribute, and the others are the 85% remaining.
[ Reply | Options ]11.15.09, 05:54 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]everyone can give $1. and that's all they ask. the very minimum participation. but parents at nest can't be bothered. they are convinced their dcs will rule the world without anyone's help. save those pennies for their ivy league sweatshirt.
[ Reply | Options ]11.15.09, 05:56 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]you sound quite cynical.
[ Reply | Options ]11.15.09, 05:59 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]cynical is someone who won't give one bloody dime to their dc's school.
[ Reply | Options ]11.15.09, 05:59 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]I agree. Everyone can afford SOMETHING, even if it's a very small amount.
[ Reply | Options ]11.17.09, 05:03 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]
just imagine everybody would be giving one dollar only. That's not really what the PTA is asking for. The PTA has a specific number in mind and THAT's what they are asking for.
[ Reply | Options ]11.16.09, 10:33 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]of course that's their dream. but if not that then what you can give. and if that's $1, great. it's giving absolutely nothing that can't be justified.
[ Reply | Options ]11.16.09, 03:51 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
np: We are not at NEST but I do fundraising at our school and there is very little correlation between people's financial situation and their willingness to give. If willing to give, the wealthier people write big checks while the not so well off may only give $20, but they still give. And plenty of wealthy people don't give at all because it does not make it onto their priority list.
[ Reply | Options ]11.15.09, 05:51 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]ditto and ditto. we are lucky to be at a school where everyone gives what they can. admittedly participation is down this year from last but it is way beyond 15%! i'd be so ashamed to attend a school like that!
[ Reply | Options ]11.15.09, 05:53 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]np: why would you see it as a reflection on yourself?
[ Reply | Options ]11.15.09, 05:57 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]because i am part of the community and the community has let the school down in that case.
[ Reply | Options ]11.15.09, 05:58 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]But there is only so much you can control. It's more of a luck thing, don't you think?
[ Reply | Options ]11.15.09, 05:59 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]call me naive, but i think rah-rah spirit is infectious and so is who-gives-a-damn/let's pretend-we-never-got-the-direct-appeal-letter.
[ Reply | Options ]11.15.09, 06:01 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
still seems that your identity is overly invested. its not a 12 step program. it is a school.
[ Reply | Options ]11.15.09, 06:00 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]it's a community and it's my dc's education. i sure as hell am invested in it, and if that makes me a punchline to you, so be it.
[ Reply | Options ]11.15.09, 06:03 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]np: She has a point though. Involvement is not just giving $$, it's also participating in the school activities, both in the classroom and outside, and those seem to be correlated, at our school anyway.
[ Reply | Options ]11.15.09, 06:04 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
df told me she wasn't happy with the expenditures of the PTA at our school. they are not freeloaders and have given a lot in the past. she says she is frustrated by the way the money is managed and is waiting to see if she wants to invest further. At first, I was appalled, but then I saw her point. PTA is charged with doing right by the school. If she doesnt feel they are doing a good job at this, maybe she should hold back until things get better.
[ Reply | Options ]11.15.09, 05:58 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]sounds like an excuse to me. if she wanted to manage the $$ she could run for pta pres.
[ Reply | Options ]11.15.09, 05:59 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]maybe. not sure she would be elected, but you could argue that she should try.
[ Reply | Options ]11.15.09, 06:02 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]Huh? It's either go run the show or cough up the money?
[ Reply | Options ]11.16.09, 09:43 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]Get involved, you don't have to run the show to be involved.
[ Reply | Options ]11.16.09, 10:18 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]ita. this whole "i don't like what the pta is spending the $$ on so i'm not donating" is so stupid. the pta is YOU.
[ Reply | Options ]11.16.09, 03:54 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]I don't believe in doing that personally, but it is an attitude out there, offered as one reason people might not be donating...in respnse to OP's question.
[ Reply | Options ]11.16.09, 07:23 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
Or maybe she should get involved and run for PTA position, or get on the SLT and actually influence things. But that may be more work than she is up for.
[ Reply | Options ]11.15.09, 06:01 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]I think it is a common issue at our school.
[ Reply | Options ]11.15.09, 06:03 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]It is a common issue at every school. We have a loud contingent of people who know better and would do a much better job. Unfortunately, when most of the pTA turned over and we were desperately looking for new blood to fill the spots, they were too busy to consider it. Complaining is much easier.
[ Reply | Options ]11.16.09, 09:20 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]
isn't this just cutting off her nose to spite her face? money donated is buying something even if it's a higher quality toilet tissue and not a chess teacher. opting out is just petulant.
[ Reply | Options ]11.15.09, 06:04 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]Tell her to direct her gift then.
[ Reply | Options ]11.16.09, 09:58 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]great idea - oh but not allowed
[ Reply | Options ]11.16.09, 12:02 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]which is as it should be. the rich people could get what they wanted. the idea is to pool and vote on how to spend the pool.
[ Reply | Options ]11.16.09, 03:56 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]np: Yes it is allowed. We fundraised directly for the spanish program in the past.
[ Reply | Options ]11.17.09, 08:32 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]"Tell her..." poster: I think that person meant that their PTA doesn't allow that. (Which would be dumb but I can imagine.)
[ Reply | Options ]11.18.09, 07:15 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]
I wonder if people just don't care if the extras get cut? Maybe they think that all of the afterschool clubs and stuff should be pay-by-use, with some funds available for financial aid? Maybe they think the PTA has too much money saved up? Maybe they're just too lazy to sign in to the school hub and then click on an attachment, so they don't even get the requests? I wish there were a place to explore this without fingerpointing and nasty back and forth, because I find it baffling.
[ Reply | Options ]11.15.09, 06:19 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]nest has always been like this. it has nothing to do with the current economic climate.
[ Reply | Options ]11.15.09, 06:19 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]Maybe it's a self-fulfilling prophesy - as the ones that give realize that they're part of a slim majority, they decide not to give the next year. Who wants to subsidize 85% of their largely middle and upper middle class classmates?
[ Reply | Options ]11.15.09, 06:24 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]I think this is part of it, because the complaints are on here every year, and it is always NEST parents feeling like a sucker because they gave. Normal people do it because they care about the school and can afford it and don't look around to keep the score.
[ Reply | Options ]11.16.09, 10:04 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]
and you know this how?
[ Reply | Options ]11.16.09, 09:47 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]i know families with older dcs at the school. it's the same complaint every year. as poster above points out, it is even posted HERE every year.
[ Reply | Options ]11.16.09, 10:11 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]But the post is about people's motivation. How could anyone pretend to know that?
[ Reply | Options ]11.16.09, 10:14 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]who is pretending anything? my point was it doesn't matter what the motivation is. nest parents give nothing year in and year out.
[ Reply | Options ]11.16.09, 03:47 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]Then where does all the money the PTA pays for stuff with come from?
[ Reply | Options ]11.16.09, 05:08 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]NEST actually does not raise all that much comparably, but since there are no assistant teachers they spend much less than Anderson and other PTAs that raise significant $$$.
[ Reply | Options ]11.18.09, 10:33 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]
seriously? i think our school's is close to 100%.
[ Reply | Options ]11.15.09, 06:26 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]np: People need to chill the f*ck out. We're at NEST and haven't given yet this year because we like to make our charitable donations in December. That's why we haven't given yet.
[ Reply | Options ]11.15.09, 06:29 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]yeah, whatev.
[ Reply | Options ]11.15.09, 06:30 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]you should try to give to the direct appeal asap so that the school has a rough idea what they are working with.
[ Reply | Options ]11.15.09, 06:30 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
I'm at another school, but when my dc first started, I didn't understand that the annual fund was for everyone to participate in. I thought it was only for people with money and just ignored the mailings. I think educating people is part of fund raising.
[ Reply | Options ]11.15.09, 06:29 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]Yes but how to educate those who do not participate in giving to their kids' schools? I spend most of my time fundraising for a special needs school my dc attends, and honestly lots of parents seem really thick about it. The school doesn't want to "pressure" anyone, but dh and I feel like we are carrying quite a few people who seem like they could give/help out more than they do. Passive didn't work, now I'm aggressive and it's not making me well-liked.
[ Reply | Options ]11.15.09, 07:34 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]How are you aggressive? I'm curious.
[ Reply | Options ]11.15.09, 07:44 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]np: You are not surprised that this is making you not well liked, right?
[ Reply | Options ]11.16.09, 09:57 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]Ditto that. The thing is that many families can't give and they are not proud about it. Now you call them up and apply your pressure tactics and make them admit to something they don't want you to know (that they are broke)?
[ Reply | Options ]11.16.09, 10:08 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]It's a little tough when our family cuts back on new cars, clothes and vacations...then to watch the families who don't give, drive up to the school in Audis, and go on about their trips to the Bahamas, carry Chanel bags, etc. Seems like they've figured out they can get away w/o giving, just leave it to me - the sucker-mom. Ouch!
[ Reply | Options ]11.16.09, 03:42 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]How do you know who does and doesn't give and how much?
[ Reply | Options ]11.16.09, 05:10 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]Yes, I thought it is all anonymous and such. Sounds like that it is not so, eh?
[ Reply | Options ]11.17.09, 05:52 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]I think it sounds more like someone is talking out of his/her ass.
[ Reply | Options ]11.17.09, 07:28 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]No dear friend. Mot talking out my ass. Yes,giving is anon, but when you ARE the school's primary fundraiser, it means you KNOW who is buying tickets to events, who is contributing to auctions, who is not attending an event but making a contribution, who is attending an event and making an effort to bring in 10 new supporters to the event as well, you know who's taking the extra 5mins to fill out the corp matching grant. You KNOW who's called you and says "we don't have much $$ but we'll come to the venue the day of the event and do all the set up, we'll pick up all the flowers to save on delivery charges, we'll stamp the invitations, etc. Plus, you see at these parent meetings who signs up for helping on the clipboards that get passed around & who just hands them to the next parent w/o looking. So no, I'm no talking out my ass. But be assured; I don't share this info w other parents. Have a nice day.
[ Reply | Options ]11.19.09, 06:09 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]But you present that you know what people's current financial position is, too. So unless you do all the fund raising AND you are the certified financial planner for these people I still say how would you know? Especially in the current situation so many of us find ourselves in.
[ Reply | Options ]11.19.09, 12:35 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]My df, it does NOT take a cfa to watch several families rent the summer houses, take the vacations, drive the luxury autos, have that next baby, renovate that co-op or wear the designer threads to see that there is SOME disposable income not going to their kids' schools. When THOSE families don't give, I can't help but think that they are thick or selfish. Have a nice evening.
[ Reply | Options ]11.19.09, 06:48 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
np. the families who don't give at our school don't try to hide it. designer clothes, trust funds, fancy vacations--but then cry poverty when they're asked to pay $60 for a ticket to the annual auction.
[ Reply | Options ]11.16.09, 05:31 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]Again, how do you know they don't give?
[ Reply | Options ]11.17.09, 04:56 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]as i posted but you obviously missed, they don't try to hide it. they brag that they don't give.
[ Reply | Options ]11.17.09, 04:03 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]I assumed that for them, like us, there is a difference between not giving for an auction and not giving for the annual fund. Money was tight last year and we did not do the NEST auction and if people were so rude as to ask, I would have told them that. But that does not mean I didn't give to the annual fund. I find giving to something like a fund raising dinner, etc is a really poor way to contribute. It costs me hundreds of dollars so the group/school can get a few bucks.
[ Reply | Options ]11.18.09, 07:10 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]
because they say so. "gosh, we really can't afford the $50 tickets to the auction this year" [fumbling in brand-new chloe bag for gucci sunglasses and envelope of photos]. "did i show your our vacation shots from parrot cay? i almost killed steve when i found out he booked the villa, but honestly the $1k a night difference bought you so much more. oh, wait. here's my driver. gotta run!"
[ Reply | Options ]11.17.09, 04:18 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
really? our PTA is very clear that the goal is 100 percent participation and they don't care how much you pledge. i thought that was common.
[ Reply | Options ]11.16.09, 06:41 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]NEST fundraising is done poorly imo. The emails are great and they work hard but they make no phone calls. You need to explain the annual fund to people otherwise the letters and emails are worthless to those who don't understand. I am a NEST family. I LOVE the school and think they do an amazing job. This is the only area that I think needs help.
[ Reply | Options ]11.16.09, 06:52 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]ITA. On the one hand, I appreciate that they don't push, push, push. On the other hand, I'm irritated that I'm one of 15% that donated (and it isn't easy for us), and very likely won't contribute more this year. Maybe they should just push hard for $150 per family, spend on the bare bones stuff (Singapore math, for ex.) and have individual classes/grades/schools fundraise for specific items as needed.
[ Reply | Options ]11.16.09, 09:09 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]Phone calls? You have to be kidding. People would have a huge fit if school started calling them at night asking to give. If parents can't be bothered to read letters there is nothing you can do. I can understand ignoring an email but if someone sends letter to you from school you ought to bother to read it.
[ Reply | Options ]11.16.09, 09:15 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]np: It wouldn't be school calling. It would be a parent you know. Asking you to help and get involved.
[ Reply | Options ]11.16.09, 09:43 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]Good luck getting people to do this. We have tried at our school a couple years ago and it was a disaster. Never again.
[ Reply | Options ]11.16.09, 10:05 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]
Oh, please. If our school/PTA/whatever were to start calling up people who haven't given, yet, I will stop giving money. Last year a few parents thought it was a good idea to remind the rest of the class that we have to give and that they were disappointed at the progress. It did not not come across as well-meant.
[ Reply | Options ]11.16.09, 10:06 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]Well then they need to work on the script. At a school like NEST, where people are going out of their way to send their kids because of PTA supported things like Singapore Math and chess, to not participate is not ok. You don't have to give a lot but you should give.
[ Reply | Options ]11.16.09, 10:18 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]I wonder how may families were okay with getting rid of Singapore math if the PTA can't afford it anymore. At our school the majority of PTA funds go toward TAs in the classrooms. Personally, I would not miss them if we can't afford them anymore. It wasn't a high priority for ranking LL that high. If the PTA can't raise enough funds (for whatever reasons) the TAs have to be slimmed down. Big deal.
[ Reply | Options ]11.16.09, 10:21 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]I would be upset to see Singapore Math go. That would be an interesting piece for a fund raising letter... "By X grade, teaching your child Singapore Math at NEST+m will have cost $YYY."
[ Reply | Options ]11.16.09, 10:29 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]I think that getting rid of Singapore Math would be universally booed. Besides that, I don't think there would be great uproar from the parent body to lose most of the things that the PTA currently subsidizes, but it would definitely have an effect on the quality of the school (teacher appreciation breakfast/luncheons, afterschool clubs, paying teachers to teach afterschool activities, extra books for the classrooms, etc.)
[ Reply | Options ]11.16.09, 10:54 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]I'd hate to lose chess!
[ Reply | Options ]11.16.09, 11:42 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]I think (but am not sure) that the PTA just funds the afterschool club, not the in-class part. So if the parents wanted to continue chess afterschool with Zach, they'd just have to pay a heck of a lot more than they pay now
[ Reply | Options ]11.16.09, 11:47 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]I write a ton of checks... but I could swear we pay for after school chess with Zach.
[ Reply | Options ]11.16.09, 11:57 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]It is subsidized by the PTA, though
[ Reply | Options ]11.16.09, 12:07 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]Oh... Thanks.
[ Reply | Options ]11.16.09, 12:10 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
I would like my child to be able to use the gym - maybe if the PTA outlined how much the school gets from renting out the gym and what it would cost for parents to buy it back
[ Reply | Options ]11.18.09, 04:34 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]
I don't care about chess, but I don't mind that money goes to fund it.
[ Reply | Options ]11.17.09, 07:35 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]In truth it is more about Zach. He is so good with the kids and all.
[ Reply | Options ]11.17.09, 07:52 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]
let me see if i have this right: the school is for geniuses but the parents are so stupid they can't figure out how to communicate the message "100% participation is the goal." is that right? somehow i don't think so. i think nest parents are self-serving cheapskates.
[ Reply | Options ]11.16.09, 04:26 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
ditto and ditto. how hard can it be to communicate that message?
[ Reply | Options ]11.16.09, 09:19 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]ditto
[ Reply | Options ]11.16.09, 04:24 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
People either don't want to give for a philosophical reason, or because they prefer to give to other charities, or they don't have the funds. If you don't want to give you say no. If you don't have the funds its a lot less humiliating to say no than it is to say you can give $1.
[ Reply | Options ]11.16.09, 06:54 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]it's anonymous. no one knows that you gave $1 except one or two people in the pta office who would be thrilled to have you give that because you must prove big participation in order to get grants and other funding.
[ Reply | Options ]11.16.09, 09:21 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]ah, it may be anonymous but ask around. Do you really think it is perceived as anonymous? It is much more "face saving" to ignore and pretend it's been falling through the cracks and you will get to it eventually than giving one single Dollar.
[ Reply | Options ]11.16.09, 10:12 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]as someone who works closely with the heads of the pta i can say in all honesty that it really, truly is anonymous at our school and it really is not about the amount. families know that if they give a dollar it is 100 times better than giving nothing because it counts towards total participation. also, everyone who donates gets a handwritten note thanking them effusively whether they give $1 or $10,000.
[ Reply | Options ]11.16.09, 10:16 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]I believe you and in the end we always donate as much as we can. I know, though, that there are plenty of families who don't buy the anonymous thing, though. And I can understand that.
[ Reply | Options ]11.16.09, 10:18 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]
Fund raising at schools is a wholly American concept. Most places have fund raising for special events, maybe class trips and things like that. Not music class, art class etc. Maybe that plays into it. What is the demographic of a NEST student? BTW I don't have a DC in NEST (or any other school).
[ Reply | Options ]11.16.09, 08:19 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]clearly. if you did have a dc in a nyc public school you would see the necessity of fundraising.
[ Reply | Options ]11.16.09, 09:21 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]NEST kids run the NYC gamut. They come from all five boroughs, all socio-economic groups, etc.
[ Reply | Options ]11.16.09, 09:55 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]actually, only 13% qualify for free lunch (and i'm betting most of those are not in the early grades). it's a mostly mc/umc crowd. plenty could donate they just choose not to.
[ Reply | Options ]11.16.09, 10:05 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]And more of them are from Manhattan than from the Bronx. This does not make anything I said incorrect.
[ Reply | Options ]11.16.09, 10:19 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]NP o.k. then but responder was inferring a point when clearly there was none.
[ Reply | Options ]11.17.09, 07:36 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]
I am not at NEST but at LL and we have not given to the general fund, yet. We volunteer in many other ways, though, and think enough is enough. We have plenty of high rollers at LL that will make up for the others.
[ Reply | Options ]11.16.09, 09:39 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]you suck. freeeloader.
[ Reply | Options ]11.16.09, 10:07 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]You don't understand the meaning of freeloader. Go ahead and educate yourself a bit.
[ Reply | Options ]11.16.09, 10:10 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]np. ideally you would volunteer and give $$, even if only one dollar. the fact that you refer to high-rollers making up for the others and use the phrase "enough as enough" does tend to make you look like you have the wrong attitude even if you do volunteer.
[ Reply | Options ]11.16.09, 10:13 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]I don't have the money but I have the time. DH and I sign up for so much volunteering that it makes up for our lacking monetary contribution. Hardly freeloading.
[ Reply | Options ]11.16.09, 10:23 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]i'm sure you have $1 and if you do you should give it. it matters when it comes to obtaining funding. also, you should be careful with your language. calling people who give money "high rollers" sound snotty, as does responding to appeals for $$ from the school with "enough is enough."
[ Reply | Options ]11.16.09, 10:27 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]You are too hung up on how I call certain things. The matter of fact is that my time I give to the school is worth something in my eyes. And that one dollar? That goes into the family emergency fund. Medical bills need to be paid, food needs to get on the table, etc. etc. The whole "it's just a dollar" is very common but entirely flawed argument.
[ Reply | Options ]11.16.09, 10:32 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]right. how much are you paying your isp and con ed to sit here and tell me you don't have a buck to spend on your dc's education, a dollar that could reap five or ten or one hundred in additional funding? please. you're a liar and you're a selfish one at that. signed, "high-roller" mom whose hhi may not be great but who finds a way to give whatever time and money she can so someone like you can coast.
[ Reply | Options ]11.16.09, 11:35 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]You are weird. Have a good one.
[ Reply | Options ]11.16.09, 11:37 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]She's not weird, she's right. Signed, another LL parent whose hhi dropped 75% this past year (that's right) but still managed to give money
[ Reply | Options ]11.17.09, 05:29 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]
Also at LL, volunteer for a lot too and gave suggested amount (plus match) to the pledge drive...a plea from me: please give whatever you can.
[ Reply | Options ]11.16.09, 04:54 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
We give each year. I thought it was interesting how carefully that Lower School letter was worded. They make it sound like Lower School is not paying its way. Unless there was a seachange in behavior this last year, that is not the case.
[ Reply | Options ]11.16.09, 09:40 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]I agree. I think it is in response to comments here and on the forums saying that the lower school is subsidizing all three schools. Anyone not up to date on things would assume by that letter that the middle and upper are subsidizing the lower, rather than what I assume is the truth - that the PTA had leftover funds from the year before and used those to supplement what came in last year.
[ Reply | Options ]11.16.09, 10:06 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]I think it is something else. They bring in a lot of money at events and other things. So the total = LS annual fund + MS annual fund + US annual fund + events (Halloween, Auction, game nights, etc.) + other fund raisers (Barnes & Noble, at school things, etc) So, yes the total LS expenditure last year was greater than LS annual fund contributions. So too were the MS and the US, I'll bet. GRANTED, none of this means that 15% is ok.
[ Reply | Options ]11.16.09, 10:26 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]Ah, I bet you're right, and I agree with you and the other posters - 15% is NOT ok, and everything else about the school is great. Also, I don't really understand why the $150 in school supplies is mandatory but a contribution toward Singapore math and chess isn't?
[ Reply | Options ]11.16.09, 10:30 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]I think you are mistaken about the $150 for school supplies being mandatory.
[ Reply | Options ]11.16.09, 10:34 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]Great, am I the only one who paid for that, too?
[ Reply | Options ]11.16.09, 10:44 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]I didn't say that. The vast vast majority do. But if a kid or two can't afford it, the PTA subsidizes. Just like if a family wants to buy their own... colored pencils. Nobody says boo. (This came up at a PTA meeting way back when I was a newbie.)
[ Reply | Options ]11.16.09, 10:48 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]
School Supplies of $150 was initiated by the administration years ago. It is not PTA.
[ Reply | Options ]11.19.09, 12:15 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
Why doesn't the PTA just announce where the money is coming from, e.g. LS $X, MS $Y, US $Z so that there's more transparency? I'm actually curious to know how much the US parents are contributing....
[ Reply | Options ]11.17.09, 04:17 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]I think it is a couple of reasons. All that reporting is/would be done by volunteer parents who are not keeping those kinds of records. It is not going to help fund raising and (to be honest) it would probably hurt it. The annual appeal is only a fraction of the fund raising. Segmenting the rest so this could even be reported would be a huge pain in the a$$.
[ Reply | Options ]11.18.09, 08:41 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]np: I have no doubt the people in charge of annual fund have a spreadsheet where they can easily pull the contributions not only LS, MS and US, but also by grade and class. This is not information that should be shared publicly as there is no point in making anyone feel bad but at our school we certainly use the info to target our fundraising. Hopefully NEST PTA does it as well.
[ Reply | Options ]11.18.09, 10:31 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]
School/PTA needs to improve communication -what is the money used for (details not generalities) , what is the vision - do they want smart boards, projectors why one over the other - never hear this kid of communication - I suppose I can quit my job and go to the morning meetings but then school still will not get money.
[ Reply | Options ]11.16.09, 12:26 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]In fairness, major disbursements are first discussed at PTA meetings and minutes/agendas for every meeting are on the SchoolHub account. If you want the info it is available.
[ Reply | Options ]11.16.09, 12:41 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]actually, if you want to vote on how the money is spent, you can. the pta is the parents and the teachers. they can't decide how to spend the money without announcing there will be a vote and then taking a vote.
[ Reply | Options ]11.16.09, 03:59 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]well, most of this stuff is decided in meetings of the exec board, and then only presented to a general meeting once it is practically a done deal. also, most parents don't go to all general meetings, so if you have 4 friends show up, you have your majority vote.
[ Reply | Options ]11.16.09, 07:31 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]you are not at NEST are you?
[ Reply | Options ]11.17.09, 04:57 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]
it is all available online 990 IRS Tax return for not-for-profits is a publicly disclosed document - available on the internet and actually worth reading if you want to know where the money goes. I can't add a link here but it is out there and easy to obtain.
[ Reply | Options ]11.18.09, 06:33 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]
In a situation like this, its always "rational" for you to contribute nothing and "free ride" on others. But you give because its the right thing to do. In my book, that doesn't make you a sucker. And the 15% means that 1-2 families out of 10 give money when they are not required to do so. In a way, that's pretty impressive.
[ Reply | Options ]11.16.09, 04:54 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]because we're broke
[ Reply | Options ]11.16.09, 05:25 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]no one's so broke they can't give $10 a year.
[ Reply | Options ]11.16.09, 05:34 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]but $10 is nothing. in a school of 800, that would be $8,000. big deal. everyone knows that giving a dollar would be silly and amount to nothing.
[ Reply | Options ]11.16.09, 07:28 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]The point, which has been emphasized over and over again in the letters that NEST mails home, is that the % of participation in the drive is very important in terms of raising money from outside sources, like private and community foundations. No foundation is going to support an organization that clearly has no support from its own constituencies.
[ Reply | Options ]11.17.09, 05:52 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]as has been pointed out before, it's not the $8k (which, btw, practically pays for a copier lease at our school so is hardly small potatoes). it's the fact that every family participates. corporate donors look at this when they decide whether or not to underwrite something like, say, taste of tribeca.
[ Reply | Options ]11.17.09, 04:12 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
I think there's a huge problem with the messages getting crossed. The PTA sends notes and email to buy calendars, pies, donate pennies, buy books for class, buy books for the kids, use a code at Amazon, use another at Barnes and Noble, another at Sallie Foster wrapping paper, donate for the bake sale, bring a dish to sell at Halloween, bring a dish for international night. The teachers ask for their wish lists; tissues to printer cartridges. By the time you wade through all of that, you might forgive someone for thinking they've already done their part and "given" to the school however they can. Instead of holding hokey contests for an ice cream social, the PTA should be clearer and stay on message and say 100% PARENTAL PARTICIPATION -- even $10 -- means a LOT to foundations. So please do it. In fact, maybe they want to work on such a letter before the end of 2009. But it might get lost in the requests to sell, donate or buy wreaths.
[ Reply | Options ]11.16.09, 07:21 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]I agree with this - also as I sit realizing I have not sent in the form and have no idea where my checkbook is as I haven't used one in years - why not add online donations - I would much prefer to do that; I'm not familiar with charities but there must be some institution that will clear the money at a discounted rate for not for profits - On second thought - I'll look into this and send in my suggestion.
[ Reply | Options ]11.17.09, 03:36 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]np: the form has credit card info.
[ Reply | Options ]11.17.09, 04:59 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]I filled out the form with my credit card info and it was easy.
[ Reply | Options ]11.17.09, 06:19 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]
Yes, and as stupid as this sounds, I think the fact that parents get an email that then links to the website that then requires a password and then requires navigating to a message that finally requires a document download means that a large majority of families aren't even bothering to read the message or the attachments.
[ Reply | Options ]11.17.09, 05:55 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]NP: I also don't get that School Hub is touted as the place to go there is so little info on it - go to the general fund page and there is a boilerplate message about school funds being cut - that looks like it is 8 months old, why not include an updated message as to what the funds are used for and a link to the PTA financials - there is still room available on the internet.
[ Reply | Options ]11.17.09, 07:34 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]OMG, I totally agree with you. How are is it to copy and paste the message into the email? How stupid are these people anyway? I'm on my iphone, the connection is slow, does she really think I want to click through the school hub website, enter my username and password, open a pdf document to read that thing? I often wonder if these people use common sense!
[ Reply | Options ]11.17.09, 03:58 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]^hard
[ Reply | Options ]11.17.09, 04:03 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
I agree with that. Slim down the number of fundraisers and you get a much better participation at the annual fund.
[ Reply | Options ]11.17.09, 05:56 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]np: I am in the fund raising industry. None of the research bears this out. Events, as a rule, do not actually cannibalize the annual fund. (Capital campaigns can -- if you are not careful -- but that is a different issue.)
[ Reply | Options ]11.17.09, 07:39 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]
I agree, I wrote one check for $1000 and that's it. I like that it's tax deductible and easy. So sick and tired of all those messages for everything else. Also, why is there a class-specific wish list that includes paper from Staples? Isn't that covered by the $150 that I paid?
[ Reply | Options ]11.17.09, 04:02 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
The point should be got across though that the individual donation amounts will no be published, and even $5 counts, and that the most important thing is that everyone contributes something, and not to be embarrassed if it is a very small contribution.
[ Reply | Options ]11.16.09, 07:25 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]I'm with you on this - still I am baffled that 1/3rd of the school did not return the school lunch form as of last newsletter - I mean that is free and you just stick it in your child's bag that one is just baffling.
[ Reply | Options ]11.17.09, 03:39 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]How about that only 40% of the teachers bothered to return the DOE progress report questionnaire? Equally baffling to me. The teachers KNOW how important those are and they still don't take 5 min to fill it out. Love the school, but some things make me feel like I"m in the Twilight Zon
[ Reply | Options ]11.17.09, 05:26 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]
why should people pay? its a public school. people feel entitled. let the city pay for everything.
[ Reply | Options ]11.17.09, 03:44 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]If you are going to post dumb shit to get the masses excited, you should do it on a thread less than a gazillion posts long.
[ Reply | Options ]11.17.09, 05:01 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]NP: good for you that needed to be said.
[ Reply | Options ]11.17.09, 06:38 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]
This is so surprising to me. We are new to Nest this year, with a child in Kindergarten. I actually thought everyone else was giving much more than we are because we are (I'm sure) on the poor side of the demographics represented at the school. But now I feel pretty good about my contribution. I gave all that I could and give every month. It's not a lot but it's something.
[ Reply | Options ]11.17.09, 06:16 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]We're at NEST and would LOVE to donate, but we're spending $3000 on a private bus that our kid's classmates in Manhattan get for free. The DOE sucks.
[ Reply | Options ]11.17.09, 06:23 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]You are getting a top quality education at an accelerated level with amazing teachers and an enviable physical plant (compared to most publics) at a K-12...FOR FREE. You sound like the ultimate ingrate.
[ Reply | Options ]11.17.09, 06:30 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]This is ridiculous. Yes, it's free. Education is supposed to be free. It shouldn't be a big deal that it is. On the other hand, you are paying through your taxes for it.
[ Reply | Options ]11.17.09, 06:32 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]If you're spending $3000 on a private bus (when you could get a free student metrocard from the school) you certainly have $100 to donate to the general fund. Another bullsh%t response.
[ Reply | Options ]11.17.09, 06:34 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]NP - I actually get the parents pain on this one - the fact that you manage to find money to make the school possible for your child is used against you as an example why you are rich. Subways both ways for a 5 year old not realistic. We are in the same boat; we do all the other fundraisers throw in a token amount to this one and let them count us as a contributor for grants.
[ Reply | Options ]11.17.09, 07:19 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]Which is fine! But there really is absolutely no excuse for not participating in the general fund. It is almost embarrassing how much groveling the PTA has to do for this, emphasizing again and again that any amount matters and none is too small.
[ Reply | Options ]11.17.09, 07:21 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]and I agree
[ Reply | Options ]11.17.09, 07:37 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]
Personally I feel bombarded with Nest donation requests. One day it's the general fund, another day it's for pies, books, teacher gifts, yearbook ads, etc. I would rather just receive one donation request and never be asked again. I know this is not going to happen, so I donate to whichever I feel is the most necessary. I do donate to the general fund, and would give even more if it were item specific, e.g., air conditioners, copiers, etc.
[ Reply | Options ]11.17.09, 06:41 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]It definitely is confusing. I am the poster above who was so surprised to hear it's only 15%. One of the reasons I gave to the general fund was because I figured it would be a mainstay that I gave every month and I wouldn't have to keep up with all the dribs and drabs of pies and books etc. but the thing is that what really matters is we all give what we can. It is important to contribute to what you want in the way that you want, in my opinion. Maybe we wouldn't get all these pie requests etc. if more people gave to the general fund... I think they should consider being very clear that they want people to give whatever they can and that it is anonymous and that even if everyone just gave $20 or $50 for the whole year it would be better than having this 15% BS.
[ Reply | Options ]11.17.09, 06:50 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]NP, and I have to say that I don't really feel bombarded by requests. I'm trying to think of them all, and there's a distinction between requests that ask you to keep a simple link in mind when you're doing your regular shopping - AMazon, B&N code, search function, book fair; community-building events with minimal charges - Fright Night, Game Night, etc; and the big ticket fundraisers - General Fund and auction. The other costs are really class-based and are up to each class to determine if it's worth it (water in classroom, teacher gift, etc.) Maybe it's a lack of organization, but I can also imagine the frustration that the PTA heads feel trying to get this info out to the parents of a student body of 1500...when PTA attendance hovers around 20.
[ Reply | Options ]11.17.09, 06:56 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]nnp: I rarely go to PTA meetings but I read the agenda and newsletters and I think I have a sense of where the money is going and all that. For the most part I think they do a good job with the resources. (Maybe a little too much on US considering how little it raises.) We gave a lot more in past years but my youngest is at our local school for pre-K this year and while I love NEST I think my zoned school's PTA really needs more help. So, while I participate and give a nominal amount to the Gen Fund, most of my giving this year will be to PS.
[ Reply | Options ]11.17.09, 07:36 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]nnnnp: The budget should be available at each PTA meeting, showing exactly what is planned and how much has been raised/spent to date.
[ Reply | Options ]11.17.09, 04:27 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]that would be nice - but if you mention it at a meeting you know of course they will ask you to do it...
[ Reply | Options ]11.18.09, 07:02 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]huh? It is the treasurer's job to do it, and report on it at the PTA meeting every month.
[ Reply | Options ]11.18.09, 08:16 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]
nnp (again): But the expenditures (and I think the whole budget) are on line. Why should anyone have to print it out?
[ Reply | Options ]11.18.09, 07:13 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]It is public school, not every family is online. At our school, the up to date budget is available at every PTA meeting. And PTA votes on the budget for next year at the last PTA meeting. I believe both of these things are actually required per chancellor's regulations.
[ Reply | Options ]11.18.09, 08:18 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]The budget is presented at the PTA meetings. Unfortunately, the PTA meetings barely attract a quorum of 20 parents (out of the 2000 or so parents in the student body) so it doesn't really matter.
[ Reply | Options ]11.18.09, 08:50 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]You can request a copy from the treasurer or parent coordinator even if you don't attend the meeting.
[ Reply | Options ]11.18.09, 09:33 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]I agree. I don't think budget access is an issue. I don't think any NEST parent is saying that, and I think most will agree that the PTA does a good job allocating funds. The issue is that almost no one gives.
[ Reply | Options ]11.18.09, 09:42 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]
I agree and hope the PTA president is reading this. For what it's worth, I think the PTA needs to focus on the annual fund and get rid of some of the other fundraisers (I'd suggest the bake sales and Thanksgiving dessert thing -- hasn't the PTA ever heard that there's an epidemic of childhood obesity in this country??). There are too many requests for money. The fundraising is like death by a thousand cuts at the moment.
[ Reply | Options ]11.17.09, 04:20 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]we're not at nest, but at our school they are pitched as options not requests and i think that's a good thing. if i don't want to buy a pie or gift wrap, i can go to a parents' night out, get my hair cut at a tony salon or schedule a family portrait session with all the proceeds going to the school. i don't begrudge the school their creativity in soliciting funds. in fact, i welcome it.
[ Reply | Options ]11.17.09, 04:37 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]we are at NEST and like the pie fundraiser; it is a good bakery and we get friends and family to buy them - it does not effect our general fund contribution whatsoever
[ Reply | Options ]11.18.09, 07:00 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]Hunter mom...why are you all outraged about calls? All private schools make calls for the fund as does Hunter. Doesn't bother anyone if you do it correctly. It is a necessity.
[ Reply | Options ]11.18.09, 08:28 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]How do you do it correctly? It surely bothered plenty of people when our school tried that.
[ Reply | Options ]11.18.09, 08:35 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]If someone from NEST called me to ask for money - they pta would lose my phone number permanently
[ Reply | Options ]11.20.09, 07:04 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]
I have one idea - and would be interested to hear if other schools do something like this. What if each class had one class parent and one PTA liaison-type parent? The class parent would be in charge of the usual stuff - field trips, arranging for class specific fundraising (teacher gifts, water coolers.) The PTA liaison would be responsible for reaching the parents within the class about fundraising opportunities, specific volunteer jobs, status of the general fund and why it's impt to contribute, etc. I think it would be much more effective if there was a face/name attached to these appeals and someone approachable to ask follow up questions about allocations, what the general fund is, etc. And hopefully it would help the PTA as well, as they wouldn't be responsible for ALL of this stuff as they currently are.
[ Reply | Options ]11.18.09, 08:53 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]This is way too big of a job with no upside and tons of downside that I can't imagine people actually signing up to do this. We have class reps to get volunteers for events (usually split between two people as there are several events and it is rather time consuming), someone soliciting auction donations from the parents in class and promoting auction in general. Class parents also communicate about annual fund and we have talked about having a rep just for that, but some classes have few active parents and really, all these are pretty big jobs, I don't see how would you combine it all in one job and get it actually staffed for all or even most classes.
[ Reply | Options ]11.18.09, 10:26 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]
your post persuaded me to give - now you are .00067 closer to full participation
[ Reply | Options ]11.18.09, 01:49 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
[+] Saw an upsetting scene on the street last week: Mom and dad on either side, each hold... 120 replies
- np Me too. Unless OP was sitting in the parents' apt that morning and followed them out of their building, having seen and heard everything that led up to this situation, she should MYOB...
- Ah HA! so YOU are the woman with the teenager in a stroller! Hands up for anyone else who is sick to death of seeing grown children in strollers because its easy for mommy and continues to keep baby Oliver an infant!...
Talk : : November 15, 2009
Saw an upsetting scene on the street last week: Mom and dad on either side, each holding their young boy's arm, running for the bus. Boy is acting up. Mom screams (I mean screeching, shrieking bloody murder): "NOW! NOW! NO MORE OF YOUR BULLSH*T!!" and she and Dad literally drag boy down the sidewalk to bus. I followed them for a bit but was with own dc and don't know what I could have done. WWYD?
120 replies [ Reply | Watch | Options ]11.15.09, 02:00 PM [ Flag ]We have all had bad parenting moments, you are wrong to judge since you have no idea What the cicumstance is. What you could have done is had some empathy and realized that starring makes the situation worse.
[ Reply | Options ]11.15.09, 02:03 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]op: I usually do have empathy. But this looked like abuse to me. They were dragging a boy down the street.
[ Reply | Options ]11.15.09, 02:04 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]Be honest, what color where they. Be honest about why you thought this small snippet was abuse.
[ Reply | Options ]11.15.09, 02:09 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]They were white, well dressed, and on the Upper East Side.
[ Reply | Options ]11.15.09, 02:10 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]^^And it seemed abusive to me because most people would not scream like that. I don't mean yelling--screaming. Seemed to me if she can't even keep it together on the street, what is going on in private?
[ Reply | Options ]11.15.09, 02:11 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]you should focus on your own issues, we all have them.
[ Reply | Options ]11.15.09, 03:04 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
And let's be honest about whether the people who are raking OP over the coals for thinking the scene looked ugly would be doing so if she'd said the couple was AA and walking down the street in Harlem. Would they still be telling her to mind her own business? Hypocrites...
[ Reply | Options ]11.15.09, 05:18 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
I tend to agree but without witnessing it in person, I cannot really know what to think. From your description, it sounds like it could have just been a stressful parenting moment for normal parents.
[ Reply | Options ]11.15.09, 02:12 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]Op has no idea what was going on, I hope she never sees any of us on our worst day, or we'll surely read about here.
[ Reply | Options ]11.15.09, 02:17 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]op: you are harsh. maybe i am not painting a strong enough picture of this scene. the mother was screaming, this high-pitched, out-of-control shriek. The street was otherwise pretty silent. People were startled. They were dragging a small boy, maybe 5--yanking his tiny arms so hard that he was being dragged along on the fronts of his toes. They dragged him like that for a full block, and then across Lexington. Am I still being judgmental?
[ Reply | Options ]11.15.09, 02:20 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]That really depends what happened before. Maybe he kicked his younger sib in the head or maybe he bit his mom and she lost it; it happens. Who knows?
[ Reply | Options ]11.15.09, 02:24 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
When things happen on the street, there really is nothing you can do, no matter how badly you wish you could. A lot of people on here sound naive. In my college child psychology class, my professor said at least 40-50% of the class had probably been abused (in some form) at some point in their lives. Abuse is far more common than people think. People tend to have a "look the other way" approach and make excuses for the parents.
[ Reply | Options ]11.15.09, 02:21 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]Are you for real? Quoting your college professor? Puuuleez.
[ Reply | Options ]11.15.09, 02:25 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]i can't believe how many parents are willing to overlook this behavior. kind of scary, really.
[ Reply | Options ]11.15.09, 02:27 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]It makes more sense b/c I was abused as a child and these were actual statistics. I also then had to do a paper on it and the stuff I uncovered literally made my stomach churn. That also doesn't count the cases that nobody knows about b/c it is never reported. This was also 10 years ago and I doubt that it has gone down much. I have known many people who were abused as kids as well.
[ Reply | Options ]11.15.09, 02:43 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]np But many people who were spanked a few times say they were abused, so the number is obviously skewed.
[ Reply | Options ]11.15.09, 02:59 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
np The kid very likely was refusing to walk and the parents were running late, hence, the "dragging".
[ Reply | Options ]11.15.09, 02:25 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]So it's the child's fault that the parents were running late then? Maybe if they planned it better, they wouldn't have to be dragging their 5 year old down the street while screaming at him. Sounds like the parents fault and they chose to put the blame on their child.
[ Reply | Options ]11.15.09, 02:44 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]The child might have just STOOD there. Should they have left them there? You have no idea what happened.
[ Reply | Options ]11.15.09, 02:49 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]Oh my god. Are you seriously suggesting that a 5 year old run the family schedule? Oh wait, of course you are, you are the reason this generation is headed for the toilet. Excuse me, forgot myself.
[ Reply | Options ]11.15.09, 03:37 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]you are seriously really angry, and scary. i think she is suggesting that parents, esp of young kids who can be balky, plan enough time to get places so that they are not screaming and dragging their children to make the bus. what is so offensive about that?
[ Reply | Options ]11.15.09, 03:42 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]np They might have gotten up two hours before they had to be at the bus. If the kid was being "dragged", he quite obviously wasn't moving his feet to walk. Extra time wouldn't necessarily help at all.
[ Reply | Options ]11.15.09, 03:45 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]I am not scary and angry I am angry at the idiocy of some of these parents demanding that they plan ahead for the possible meltdown of a 5 year old. You are the adult, the 5 year old will never reach adulthood without being shown how one lives as an adult. We are raising an entire generation of children who believe they deserve something for nothing. This is just another example of how it begins. Good luck to you.
[ Reply | Options ]11.15.09, 03:46 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]ITA with you.
[ Reply | Options ]11.15.09, 03:48 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]ITTA also. people like OP kow tow to their kids and think everyone else should too. if my DC does the "dead-man", you can rest assure he is dragged to wherever he needs to go. he does not run our house. that is NOT abuse. that is being a parent.
[ Reply | Options ]11.15.09, 03:52 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]I think I love you
[ Reply | Options ]11.15.09, 03:53 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]np ita. WAY worse to beg and plead with little jack or bribe him or bring his stroller (when he's perfectly capable of walking) than to lay down the law and say "we're walking to the bus now". There are plenty of these "kids run the show" families at my dc's preschool, and it's truly amazing what their kids get away with. Strangely, after conferences, they were all saying their kids had to learn to share or be less bossy or mean or clingy or whatever. We had glowing feedback for our dc. But we have consistent rules and expectations and dh and I run our home--our dcs do not.
[ Reply | Options ]11.15.09, 03:58 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]np I think it's actually pretty damned abusive to let a 5 yo think he's in charge.
[ Reply | Options ]11.15.09, 03:59 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
maybe they did and maybe the 5 y/o made them late leaving the house. OP really has zero idea of what transpired. she is all judgy judgy with no facts.
[ Reply | Options ]11.15.09, 03:50 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
np Someone with some common sense. How refreshing!
[ Reply | Options ]11.15.09, 03:42 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
Wow, I am appalled at the responses to OP. I am not perfect and have a difficult child and I have never dragged her. If we are late, we are late and it's my fault for not planning appropriately. And even if a kid kicked his younger sib in the head or bit his mom, one should never be dragged. My DD has kicked me and bit me but she was a toddler so my response was to be calm not to take out my anger on her.
[ Reply | Options ]11.15.09, 02:34 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]ITA. There really are not any scenarios that justify this behavior from the parents. However, I also know that I have lost my temper with my children in the past and I regret it. So I can see if from both perspectives.
[ Reply | Options ]11.15.09, 02:37 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]tritto.
[ Reply | Options ]11.15.09, 02:38 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]I also agree. If your child is being difficult, changes are this is not the first time and you should plan ahead or put him in a stroller. Everybody likes to blame the child instead of the parents. Sometimes my dd can be difficult but I have also never dragged her down the street. This is not appropriate behavior for parents, no matter what the circumstances are. That poor child.
[ Reply | Options ]11.15.09, 02:39 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]You'd put a *5 yo* in a stroller? Ridiculous.
[ Reply | Options ]11.15.09, 02:51 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]frankly i think you're missing the point of her message and purposely being nitpicky.
[ Reply | Options ]11.15.09, 02:53 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]How's that? She said you should plan ahead or put him in a stroller. All the "planning ahead" you do might not be enough if your dc is difficult--and 5 is way too old to be in a stroller.
[ Reply | Options ]11.15.09, 02:58 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]so i guess your solution, then, since planning ahead doesn't work and a 5yo is too old for a stroller, is to grab him by his arms, scream at him, and drag him across Lex. gotcha.
[ Reply | Options ]11.15.09, 03:05 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]What's YOUR solution? Stick him in a stroller 'cause he doesn't want to walk? I wouldn't swear at my kid, by the way.
[ Reply | Options ]11.15.09, 03:11 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]NP: I can't figure out if the whole stroller thing in this city is a result of mothers being lazy or mothers being too enabling an catering to their DCs every whim. Either way, if you can walk, hit the street kid stroller is in the closet.
[ Reply | Options ]11.15.09, 03:28 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]Both. But especially catering to whiny children. There was one kid in #1's preschool class who rode to school daily in a stroller in pre-k year (at the end, he was pushing 6). He lived on the same BLOCK as the school, but that's what he wanted, so that's what he got.
[ Reply | Options ]11.15.09, 03:38 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]Whoa. SIX. Same block. That beats some of my viewings by a mile. Amazing isn't it what we will do to avoid a fight with a child and then pretend its because we don't want to 'force development'. New age child rearing has just given a$$holes an excuse to be a$$holes.
[ Reply | Options ]11.15.09, 03:42 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]what's your excuse for being an a$$hole?
[ Reply | Options ]11.15.09, 03:45 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]asked the mommy of the prek or k kid who still rides in a stroller.
[ Reply | Options ]11.15.09, 03:47 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]How is little johnny doing in that stroller at 8?
[ Reply | Options ]11.15.09, 03:48 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]Exactly. It was probably that same mom.
[ Reply | Options ]11.15.09, 03:51 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
Ah HA! so YOU are the woman with the teenager in a stroller! Hands up for anyone else who is sick to death of seeing grown children in strollers because its easy for mommy and continues to keep baby Oliver an infant!
[ Reply | Options ]11.15.09, 03:19 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]way to hijack a post.
[ Reply | Options ]11.15.09, 03:36 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]Me!!
[ Reply | Options ]11.15.09, 03:49 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
op: thank you. i'm stunned at the responses.
[ Reply | Options ]11.15.09, 02:39 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]We are stunned at your myopic view of life and inability to focus on your own, clearly endless, issues.
[ Reply | Options ]11.15.09, 03:30 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]judgmental much? or were you the screeching mother on lex?
[ Reply | Options ]11.15.09, 03:37 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]You know what, that wasn't me today, but I am sure it might be me some other day and unless you live in a world pumped full of Zanax it will be you too one day. Maybe you will never be the woman who screams at her child on the street but you will be the one who doesn't supervise well enough when they are 12 and whose dc gets pregnant or the clueless mom who doesn't know dc is smoking pot in the bathroom, or the mother who nods out at night after too any vodkas because daddy is always working late with the secretary.
[ Reply | Options ]11.15.09, 03:40 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]you know what? i don't think so. sorry.
[ Reply | Options ]11.15.09, 03:42 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]of course you don't think so, that is why you are posting in favor of OP. Give me a call when DC is preggers and in rehab then lets play 'who is the bad mommy'
[ Reply | Options ]11.15.09, 03:48 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]i am the op, sweetie.
[ Reply | Options ]11.15.09, 03:50 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]And that negates my response how exactly? In fact it reinforces it. "honey". Jesus, are you a waitress in a diner somewhere in georgia?
[ Reply | Options ]11.15.09, 03:53 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]lol. good night, you angry mommy.
[ Reply | Options ]11.15.09, 03:55 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]NP. I posted below. the only angry person here seems to be you OP. I think you have serious issues. were you abused as a child? maybe that is why you want to see abuse everywhere.
[ Reply | Options ]11.15.09, 03:59 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
NP. i agree with the woman challenging you. maybe you won't be the one to yell on the street, but you'll be the one to put pressure on your kid to do as well as johnny or to go to HYP. or maybe you will be the one who doesn't know what happens in your DC's life. no one is perfect OP and you really might want to consider some therapy so you can get to that realization before you make your kids into freaks thinking they are perfect also.
[ Reply | Options ]11.15.09, 03:54 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]again, you're reading a whole lot into one post. not sure where i said i was perfect. i think you and angry mommy are threatened because you secretly think people are judging your parenting skills and that they probably don't judge you very positively. and you're jumping all over me because you think i think i'm better than you. and the idea that someone might think she's better than you--which, again, i neither said nor implied--makes you really, really mad because your self-esteem is so low. how's that for armchair therapy?
[ Reply | Options ]11.15.09, 03:58 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]OP, I am not reading anything into your post. you have made it clear from your post and your other responses that you like to judge other people's behavior. why do you think you are getting such strong reactions. go back and reread what you've written. you followed this family. do you not see how weird that is? and now you are projecting anger and self-esteem issues. I think you really do have issues. how's that for armchair therapy? do you not see how many people are telling you here to MYOB? in all these posts, you've found what, one supporter? doesn't that tell you something?
[ Reply | Options ]11.15.09, 04:03 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]It tells me that there are a lot of callous mothers out there. good night.
[ Reply | Options ]11.15.09, 04:04 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]DITTO!
[ Reply | Options ]11.15.09, 04:05 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]^so let's say your child goes limp and refuses to move. what do you suggest these parents have done? maybe DC had been like this for hours already. you really have no idea and to imply this was abuse (and that you needed to follow them or do something) says to me that you are the one with the issues. you projected some assumption into the situation based on your own past and issues. that is all anyone is saying.
[ Reply | Options ]11.15.09, 04:05 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]well, now who's being all judgmental again? I simply call them as I see them.
[ Reply | Options ]11.15.09, 04:06 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]Actually OP, we all know there are idiots like you always judging out parenting, our clothes, our husbands, their incomes, our engagement rings, our teeth, our boob size and the point WE are making to YOU is that we don't much care what you think and you should not worry so much about other people.
[ Reply | Options ]11.15.09, 04:36 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
I would have minded my own business. You followed them? You're worse than they are.
[ Reply | Options ]11.15.09, 02:35 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]I have seen so many worse things on the street. That definitely sounded unpleasant, but everybody has their moments, and you don't know the background story. There is never any call to talk to a child like that, but I think even a good parent could lose it once or twice and say something that. I feel like on a normal trip to the zoo, I see something like this... not that it makes it right!
[ Reply | Options ]11.15.09, 02:42 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]A don't agree that 'even a good parent loses it once or twice' in the context of your response. I mean, yes, they lose it but it never results in verbal abuse. I have lost it with my dd a few times but I never ended up speaking to her like that or dragging her down the street. These parents are not good parents b/c even though good parents can lose it, they usually don't lose it to this degree.
[ Reply | Options ]11.15.09, 02:47 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]I have never cussed at my child either, but I really could see normally good parents doing it under extreme stress. And I know I have "dragged
[ Reply | Options ]11.15.09, 03:01 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]" my child to catch a bus; almost everyone I know has done this--without being there, it's hard to tell what OP really saw, I guess. It's possible I would have been horrified too, and am just not getting how bad it is from the description.
[ Reply | Options ]11.15.09, 03:02 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]np ITA. I'd never swear at my kids, but could see how the "dragging" thing might happen if the child was just standing there to be disobedient.
[ Reply | Options ]11.15.09, 03:04 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]The scenario as described here is disturbing b/c of the combination of yelling, abusive language and dragging. However, I have a 4 year old that sometimes throws tantrums and refuses to walk (we have forgone the stroller months ago). When she does that, I calmly (most of the time) drag her and I think it's perfectly acceptable to do so. It's particularly effective when I do that matter of fact as in: "I am in charge and you are walking with me, willingly or not". It usually does not take more than a few steps for her to understand who is in charge and follow. It's the combination of yelling and berating that I think is disturbing here. Dragging a willful child is ok, imo. Of course if one drags a child with the intent of causing harm, it's a completely different story.
[ Reply | Options ]11.15.09, 03:40 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]op: i would not view what you are describing as abusive, fwiw. i have done this myself. the scene i am describing was really beyond the pale. maybe people here aren't understanding that.
[ Reply | Options ]11.15.09, 03:45 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]OR: i think sometimes when you see something really horrifying, it is hard to describe it so that others will really understand. so much has to do with attitudes, the expressions on people's faces, etc. i used to ride the bus, and sometimes it wasn't so much the words that mothers would use with their children, it was the tone in which they said them and how they looked at them that was really depressing. like they really didn't like or want their own kids.
[ Reply | Options ]11.15.09, 03:51 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]I think you may be the only other sane person here. That's exactly it.
[ Reply | Options ]11.15.09, 03:54 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]NP. not saying that you don't believe that what you saw was worse, but maybe you were predisposed to think it was worse. you sound very judgmental and quick to decide that this was horrible. I am sure there are things you do that other people might be aghast at. you have no right to judge.
[ Reply | Options ]11.15.09, 03:58 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]we all judge. you are judging me now.
[ Reply | Options ]11.15.09, 03:59 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]I'm not judging you. I get why you did what you did. but I am telling you that you were judging this family and you shouldn't because there are probably things you have done or will do with respect to your DC that you will not be proud of. we all do.
[ Reply | Options ]11.15.09, 04:08 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
I would cut her some slack. You didn't see the whole scenario -- I've had plenty of moments where I had to manhandle one of my dcs onto/off of a bus because they have been in the middle of a tantrum.
[ Reply | Options ]11.15.09, 02:47 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]op: heaven knows, so have i. but this child wasn't having a tantrum. in fact, he was totally silent. the mother was the one having the tantrum.
[ Reply | Options ]11.15.09, 02:52 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]np You saw, what, 30 seconds of whatever situation was taking place? Also, I'm curious as to how you think the child should have been moved if he'd stopped dead on the sidewalk and refused to walk (if he's really 5 he obviously shouldn't be in a stroller).
[ Reply | Options ]11.15.09, 02:56 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]um, if it were my kid, i would have waited for the next bus. or if i absolutely had to be on this one i would have picked him up and carried him. he was not very big.
[ Reply | Options ]11.15.09, 03:07 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]Um, maybe they TRIED that before you saw them and he wouldn't have it (nearly impossible to carry a struggling 5 yo).
[ Reply | Options ]11.15.09, 03:14 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]he wasn't struggling.
[ Reply | Options ]11.15.09, 03:38 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]What? Were you following them from their apt? You have NO idea what happened before you first saw them. Kid might have stopped dead in his tracks to be a brat, mom or dad picked him up, he struggled, they put him down so they or he didn't get hurt, and then you came along. Very likely scenario.
[ Reply | Options ]11.15.09, 03:42 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]all i know is what i saw. what i saw was pretty intense.
[ Reply | Options ]11.15.09, 03:46 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
OK- Nobody is condoning "child abuse". But let's face it, the reality is you have no knowledge of the context of the situation therefore no right to judge. You are, probably unwittingly, coming across as holier than thou. Everybody loses it once in a while. Everybody. And if you don't admit that you do than you are only fooling yourself.
[ Reply | Options ]11.15.09, 03:05 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
OP: Do NOT doubt your instinct! Your gut instinct is always correct. I was beaten as a child and you are absolutely correct: if that's what they do outdoors, I know all too well what goes on behind closed doors.
[ Reply | Options ]11.15.09, 02:56 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]I was beaten as a child and no one ever behaved like that out of doors. Mind you OWN BUSINESS.
[ Reply | Options ]11.15.09, 03:07 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]So because you were abused as a kid, you are in a position to say that these people who you HAVEN'T EVEN SEEN are definitely not abusers because they were out-of-control outside? What?
[ Reply | Options ]11.15.09, 04:39 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
thank you, and i am so, so sorry you were abused as a child. i don't think these parents get it and i'm really horrified.
[ Reply | Options ]11.15.09, 03:08 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]And what if you were, long shot, correct? You call the police, they arrive at said home remove parents take children to foster care parents are arrested lose custody and children live a life of strangers and government homes. WAKE UP PEOPLE.
[ Reply | Options ]11.15.09, 03:12 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]it's pretty difficult to remove a child from his parents' home. child protective services doesn't want to do it. they ask a lot of questions and look around and maybe revisit, but they aren't going to yank a kid away from his parents based on one reported incident, esp if there are no physical bruises on the child.
[ Reply | Options ]11.15.09, 03:40 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
Pulease. Who knows what was going on indoors I agree with, but to say this is abuse? Of course it is TERRIBLE. I cringe when I see parents talking to their kids like that on the street. But I am also really peeved when people see it fit to comment on everything they see, like once when my 3 year old ds who was having alot of developmental issues and the therapist said I should try to push him along to try to get him to move a little faster on the street, and someone saw me doing this and started screaming at me that obviously he couldn't keep up and what was I doing. Or that my kids need a hat in the winter if it falls off or they refuse one or we forget. I just can't stand it. People never give a sht about one another but they love to judge. And the poor poor children who truly do suffer abuse Gd forbid....how many times do those parents go undetected?
[ Reply | Options ]11.15.09, 03:06 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]People point fingers to distract from their own arms if you get my meaning. I agree with you.
[ Reply | Options ]11.15.09, 03:14 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]np Me too. Unless OP was sitting in the parents' apt that morning and followed them out of their building, having seen and heard everything that led up to this situation, she should MYOB. The woman shouldn't have said "bullshit", but beyond that did nothing wrong if her kid was being unruly, imo.
[ Reply | Options ]11.15.09, 03:17 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]Even the bullshit in my book can slide. Hell, I am a person and I have stress and I lose it but it doesn't mean I don't love and care for my children. But yes itta too
[ Reply | Options ]11.15.09, 03:22 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]Exactly. but OP would have these parents arrested or investigated because of her observation of what a total of 15 minutes of their lives? I would like to be a fly on OP's wall for a few hours and see what i could report. I am sure plenty.
[ Reply | Options ]11.15.09, 03:26 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]No doubt. What do people like OP do all day with their time? Does she not have a hobby or a happy life that she wanders the streets looking for suspect behavior?
[ Reply | Options ]11.15.09, 03:29 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]op: darling, how are you extrapolating that i would have these parents investigated, when i specifically stated that i ended up doing nothing?
[ Reply | Options ]11.15.09, 03:48 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]"darling", you just made my point for me.
[ Reply | Options ]11.15.09, 04:10 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
np Sounds like it was more like a minute, not 15.
[ Reply | Options ]11.15.09, 03:52 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
Mow I see why so many abuse goes on b/c nobody has the guts to admit that it might be the case in situations like this. Poor children all over the world are subject to horrible abuse by their parents EVERYDAY and people on the outside say it's "unfair to judge." Well it's unfair to drag and scream at a child in that matter. It didn't matter what happened before or after or for how long she witnessed it, it is abuse - at least verbal abuse. People need to start realizing that these situations might not be just a one time incident. I feel bad for all the abused kids out there b/c most of you will see it and say "Oh that child must be being impossible." Sad, really really sad.
[ Reply | Options ]11.15.09, 03:16 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]look, if you see abuse you should report it. no one is disagreeing. but this OP does not know these people. she is judging them based on a moment or two of observation. Posted below and I am sure if we observed OP, i bet there are things we could find that she does wrong. no one is perfect. she did not see these parents smack their child. verbal abuse is wrong but none of us (including OP) has any idea what precipitated the comment from the mother. maybe the child said "f-you" to the mother. i have heard 5 y/o DC do this. the point is, you don't know and should not judge unless you truly suspect something is wrong (and I don't mean based on a 5 or even 15 minute observation on the street).
[ Reply | Options ]11.15.09, 03:25 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]np OP states they were "running for the bus". I'll bet she didn't watch them for more than a minute (if that).
[ Reply | Options ]11.15.09, 03:36 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
I would love to mount a camera in your home and film for a week then report all to the 19th precinct and see how rosey you come up smelling.
[ Reply | Options ]11.15.09, 03:26 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]np Jeez, lady, I'll bet MOST of the time it's just the child being "impossible". In any case, it's pretty hard to judge in the amount of time OP observed the situation.
[ Reply | Options ]11.15.09, 03:34 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
OP. MYOB and get off your soap box. you are not perfect and neither were these parents. I am sure there are things you do that we would all stop, gasp, and stare at. don't kid yourself and think yourself above. Everyone loses it and in different ways. you do not know the whole story. maybe their 5 y/o was going limp, leaving them no choice. have btdt where my child will just not get up and it is just not safe to just leave them to sit limp on the street. and you have no idea what crap their child was pulling. obviously your child never misbehaves and if he/she does, obviously you always handle it perfectly and reasonably. people like you make me sick.
[ Reply | Options ]11.15.09, 03:18 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]you are a sad, angry lady. and you're reading a lot into one post.
[ Reply | Options ]11.15.09, 03:49 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]Sort of like OP read a lot into what she saw over the course of a minute or two?
[ Reply | Options ]11.15.09, 04:03 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]lol. OR. I like you. :-)
[ Reply | Options ]11.15.09, 04:11 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
You know, it's not like she called the police. She was disturbed by what she saw and she's talking about it. It seems to me that people who are telling her she has no right to have any negative opinion of these people at all are the ones being rigid and narrow-minded.
[ Reply | Options ]11.15.09, 04:55 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
I don't think it's a "Call Child Protective Services" situation but I do empathize with your discomfort. It sounds like shitty parenting at the very least. My ds has done the "refusing to walk" thing before and I have resorted to tugging his arm, or dh will just pick him up and restrain him from struggling. I've certainly raised my voice and said "NOW," but there is a difference between raised voice and shrill screaming.
[ Reply | Options ]11.15.09, 04:43 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]wow, people are not allowed to scream at their kids ever? I do believe there are people without the temperament to do this. But there are plenty who do. Effective parenting? No. But especially with a difficult child, someone who never loses it? I actually wish OP had stopped the woman, or called the police. I'd love to see the reaction she would have gotten.
[ Reply | Options ]11.15.09, 04:52 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]ITA. Please. The only people who don't lose their temper with their kids either have lots and lots and lots of hired help. Or are lobotomized. Ever read the spanking debates on UB? I am horrified at idea of spanking but bet many of these busybodies aren't.
[ Reply | Options ]11.15.09, 04:59 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]There are people on this board who would probably argue that spanking is absolutely necessary and if you don't do it you're negligent or some such crap.
[ Reply | Options ]11.15.09, 05:16 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
You are way too quick to judge others
[ Reply | Options ]11.15.09, 05:44 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]My problem is with people like you, always monitoring, judging other parents. I highly doubt you are the saint you think you are. Mind your own business.
[ Reply | Options ]11.16.09, 10:29 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]
[+] Need help: Live in apt in CA. Pulled back the carpet to find mold. We bleached it and... 3 replies
- they need to get a specialist in there to check asap. Remind the manager that if they don't you will. That you will send them the bill for the specialist. If you the manager won't comply. Explain that if you and your family get really sick and it is because of the mold, that they will not be getting there rent. If still not complying mention lawsuit. I had to do this years ago. It turned out to be mold and my dh got very sick. Once the mold was removed he got...
Talk : : November 12, 2009
Need help: Live in apt in CA. Pulled back the carpet to find mold. We bleached it and thought everything was fine. Now my mother (who slept on the couch near the mold last night) woke up this morning covered in hives and my dd is sick with a fever of almost 102. My dh and I have been tired all week (since we found out) and have been getting sick. I told the manager about it and she could care less. I don't know where to turn. I am worried about our health and all the problems we have had since we found it and tried to clean it. What do I do? BTW: The manager knows about all of this but still says that it can't be mold.
3 replies [ Reply | Watch | Options ]11.12.09, 04:22 PM [ Flag ]Call the Health Dept.
[ Reply | Options ]11.12.09, 04:47 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]Tell the manager they need to get a specialist in there to check asap. Remind the manager that if they don't you will. That you will send them the bill for the specialist. If you the manager won't comply. Explain that if you and your family get really sick and it is because of the mold, that they will not be getting there rent. If still not complying mention lawsuit. I had to do this years ago. It turned out to be mold and my dh got very sick. Once the mold was removed he got well.
[ Reply | Options ]11.12.09, 06:25 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]I'm not sure your health issues are all related to the mold. You had no issues until your brain knew there was mold there, kwim? At any rate, just look in the blue pages of your phone book, find a govt agency that looks like it can help you, DEP (Department of Environmental Protection,Housing, etc) Start making calls and find someone to help. Good luck.
[ Reply | Options ]11.13.09, 05:24 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]
[+] your child does not want the food being served for supper. do you 1. let them go hun... 71 replies
- eat bread. there are no alternatives and there's not before bed snacks. they are free to eat a bigger breakfast the next morning though....
- 8. or 1, if they are beign really irrational. and a sick kid gets a pass, that's when 5 MIGHT come into play....
Talk : : November 10, 2009
your child does not want the food being served for supper. do you 1. let them go hungry 2. force them to eat 3. force them to taste the food 4. allow a slice of bread as an option 5. allow a yogurt or bowl of cereal as an option 6. offer to make something else 7. only make foods they will enjoy 8. offer more options at every meal so everyone will be happy with something 9. other. (you may choose more than one answer)
71 replies [ Reply | Watch | Options ]11.10.09, 03:24 PM [ Flag ]My sister's kid have to take a "no thank you bite" before they can decline a food. They're naturally good eaters. It's worked really well. My DD is only 9 months but when she's old enough we're planning to try that strategy.
[ Reply | Options ]11.10.09, 03:27 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]Depending on the details of the moment, either 1, 3, 4 or 5.
[ Reply | Options ]11.10.09, 03:27 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]ditto
[ Reply | Options ]11.10.09, 03:31 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]who the heck eats cereal for dinner?
[ Reply | Options ]11.10.09, 06:46 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]jerry seinfeld
[ Reply | Options ]11.11.09, 08:36 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]
number 1
[ Reply | Options ]11.10.09, 03:28 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]me too although I also save DD's portion so that when she decides she really wants to eat it's ready for her.
[ Reply | Options ]11.11.09, 10:37 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]
number 1
[ Reply | Options ]11.10.09, 03:30 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]Usually 7 -- prepare foods I know he'll eat. Ds has no appetite in the first place. He'd be happy to go hungry. Unfort. he went hungry too much last yr, only gained a pound, and ped made us come back for a weight check in 3 mos. Now I just focus on getting him to eat SOMETHING halfway healthy, rather than obsess over whether he eats a wide variety of foods.
[ Reply | Options ]11.10.09, 03:36 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]same here
[ Reply | Options ]11.10.09, 06:47 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
I'd never get into saying they could have bread or yogurt (this is why so many people have "picky eaters"--ditto #s 7and 8). And forcing kids to eat is bad for other reasons, so #1.
[ Reply | Options ]11.10.09, 03:38 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]how old is/are your dc?
[ Reply | Options ]11.10.09, 03:41 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]4 and 8
[ Reply | Options ]11.10.09, 04:09 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
why is forcing bad?
[ Reply | Options ]11.10.09, 06:48 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]You cannot really force a kid to eat; what do you do? pry their mouths open with a clamp?!
[ Reply | Options ]11.10.09, 06:48 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]that's what i want to know. a lot of people seem to be answering "1 and 3"... so how do they do 3????
[ Reply | Options ]11.10.09, 06:52 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]I do not think you can do 2. But you can demand that they taste the food (#3)
[ Reply | Options ]11.10.09, 06:54 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]np: i didn't say 3 but i think you can do it with a kid between the ages of 4 and 7. younger than 4 you can't force b/c they don't get it. older than 7 they'll just brush you off. but there's that window where you can browbeat them into tasting.
[ Reply | Options ]11.10.09, 06:54 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]ohhh... got it. dd is 2.7 so i'm still learning all this food stuff. tx
[ Reply | Options ]11.10.09, 06:56 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]getting them to taste new things is a good habit.
[ Reply | Options ]11.10.09, 06:58 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
Ha ha ha. You want to try that on my 6yo? 3, 4, 5, 6... her age never mattered. She just doesn't want to eat anything she doesn't want to.
[ Reply | Options ]11.11.09, 08:57 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]
always 4. try 7 but it's not really possible. thinking of 8. think 3 is a waste of time.
[ Reply | Options ]11.10.09, 03:40 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]there have been plenty of times that my dcs would say, "wow, this IS good."
[ Reply | Options ]11.10.09, 03:42 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]never. never ever has that happened with my dc. and i think it's b/c half the time it's more a question of arbitrary refusal rather than an actual dislike of the food.
[ Reply | Options ]11.10.09, 03:50 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]I would agree that a lot of times they just say "no" because they feel like it, and they will not step down, even it is incredibly delicious. But it really bugs me when adults are unwilling to try something new or refuse to even taste something, so it's just a rule in our house.
[ Reply | Options ]11.10.09, 03:58 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]it bothers you that grown people won't try new food? why would you care? I won't try anything I don't want to. Why should I?
[ Reply | Options ]11.10.09, 06:49 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]I find those type of people annoying, sorry.
[ Reply | Options ]11.10.09, 06:53 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]closed minded adults will raise closed minded picky children.
[ Reply | Options ]11.11.09, 06:54 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
1,3
[ Reply | Options ]11.10.09, 03:41 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]7. I'm not willing to get in a battle over food. His will is stronger than mine.
[ Reply | Options ]11.10.09, 04:17 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]Doormat
[ Reply | Options ]11.10.09, 04:19 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]Who is the parent here?
[ Reply | Options ]11.10.09, 04:48 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]obviously the kid is in charge.
[ Reply | Options ]11.10.09, 06:44 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]How weak willed do you have to be to be outdone by a child?
[ Reply | Options ]11.10.09, 07:33 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]very weak.
[ Reply | Options ]11.11.09, 06:50 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
i agree with this. if i have the option, i'd rather do 7. for me it's not a question of being a doormat or having dc in charge. i just don't think having an argument over food is worth it.
[ Reply | Options ]11.10.09, 06:47 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]what if the only food the kid enjoys is pizza? so it is pizza 7 days a week?
[ Reply | Options ]11.10.09, 06:50 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]no, it's not. i don't consider that to be an option.
[ Reply | Options ]11.10.09, 06:53 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
Ditto that. Once older and with friends they will get to taste and eat new things.
[ Reply | Options ]11.11.09, 08:58 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]
I posted earlier. It's so easy this way. Why force food. I don't like everything. Why would my child?
[ Reply | Options ]11.10.09, 06:47 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]OR here - I'm not a doormat, and my DS likes a variety of things, so he's not eating the same thing every night. I usually eat a salad or a bowl of soup for dinner, my big meal is at lunch time, so this works perfectly for us. It's not like I'm making some big extravagant meal for the family which he is refusing to eat!
[ Reply | Options ]11.11.09, 08:26 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]
I went hungry a lot when I was a kid because we didn't have a lot of money so I will never do that. It all depends on the day but I want her to have a good attitude about food.
[ Reply | Options ]11.10.09, 04:19 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]np The food IS there, though. Very different situation if the kid chooses not to eat.
[ Reply | Options ]11.10.09, 04:21 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]definitely very different situation that you should not compare.
[ Reply | Options ]11.10.09, 06:58 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
1 and then if before bed still hungry, 4
[ Reply | Options ]11.10.09, 04:51 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]I have a good eater but I always asked her to try something before she decided she hated it. I did not make her try something week after week though. And, she will eat her veggies if she feels like having dessert. In my culture, we do not have dessert every day but when we have it, she knows she has to eat her veggies.
[ Reply | Options ]11.10.09, 06:31 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]this is not a good message to send. veggies should be consumed regardless of dessert. dessert should be a treat, not a reward.
[ Reply | Options ]11.10.09, 06:57 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
7
[ Reply | Options ]11.10.09, 06:42 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]1 and 3.
[ Reply | Options ]11.10.09, 06:45 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]1, 2 (but limited), 3.
[ Reply | Options ]11.10.09, 07:04 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]7 or 8. Dc tend to eat hours before us, though we sit with them. I try to find something they all agree on, but if not, have no issue with making mac n cheese for one, scrambled eggs for the other, pbj for toddler. They tend to like different things and it doesn't bother me. But I stick to very basic food choices so I'm not really prepping food. No real loss of time and I'd rather have them enjoy their dinner. If they won't eat what they asked for, then nothing else gets made though.
[ Reply | Options ]11.10.09, 10:35 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]#7 - kids should enjoy what they eat and this will lessen the whole dinnertime struggle; and also #8 - many parents i know do this - they eat more "adult food" and let dc enjoy sloppy joes or food that they like. dinner should be enjoyable for everyone.
[ Reply | Options ]11.10.09, 11:46 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]I generally have a menu of meals I know they like. When I serve salmon, which I know they will taste but not fill up on, I usually make a London Broil for them. Also, I try introducing new types of fish to them this way as well. Dh and I eat the seafood, and they try it. Absolutely no hot dogs, mac/cheese, etc.
[ Reply | Options ]11.11.09, 06:06 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]I always make at least 1 thing that kids will like.
[ Reply | Options ]11.11.09, 06:40 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]sort of #8. we usually serve several foods at dinner and i make sure that at least one, but usually more are things that dcs have eaten and liked in the past. dcs are free not to eat if they don't like the meal. if bread is being served, they can eat bread. there are no alternatives and there's not before bed snacks. they are free to eat a bigger breakfast the next morning though.
[ Reply | Options ]11.11.09, 06:42 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]Depends on what they've eaten all day. If nothing, them I will allow #4, 5 or 7. Otherwise it's option 1.
[ Reply | Options ]11.11.09, 06:42 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]I have a VERY picky eater; here is the compromise. I start the "meal" with a tupperware full of chopped vegetables. I say, "Choose any you like." Therefore he feels in control, and I feel better that he ate vegetables. I try to go for an array of different colors (peppers, cucumbers, carrots, radishes, etc.) to make it look interesting. Basically aside from that he only eats pasta, chicken fingers, turkey burgers, meatballs, rice. Very bland stuff.
[ Reply | Options ]11.11.09, 08:30 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]I make one dinner. When you bitch you are starving and try and rush me through breakfast I savor the teaching moment.
[ Reply | Options ]11.11.09, 08:30 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]you sound sweet.
[ Reply | Options ]11.11.09, 10:51 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]I think that one of the problems we need to address is this view that every meal should be something special. It is food. It keeps your body working. I routinely make what they like and I take their preferences into account BUT when push comes to shove, "Eat your dinner and move on." If you choose to not eat because you want ravioli not tortellini, you are going to go to bed hungry and wake up hungrier.
[ Reply | Options ]11.11.09, 11:03 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]
make eat.
[ Reply | Options ]11.11.09, 08:43 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]how, exactly?
[ Reply | Options ]11.11.09, 10:51 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]
7. goes against every parenting book I've read but my mom did this with me and I grew out of it eventually, became an adventurous eater who enjoys every kind of food. Can't see the harm done. Meals weren't a battleground.
[ Reply | Options ]11.11.09, 10:19 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]i'm with you.
[ Reply | Options ]11.11.09, 10:52 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]
They have to try 1 bite before they can tell me they don't like it. After that, it depends on what is served. If it's standard fare and I know they are just being a pain in the ass, they can go hungry. If it is something with strong or distinctive tastes and they decline, they can usually get a yogurt or sandwich.
[ Reply | Options ]11.11.09, 10:27 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]how old are dcs?
[ Reply | Options ]11.11.09, 10:52 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]
They must sit at the table until the rest of the family is finished eating. If they don't want to eat, that's their choice. Substitutions are not allowed. They can either eat what I prepared for them, or they can wait until breakfast the next morning.
[ Reply | Options ]11.11.09, 10:53 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]^^^and yes, my DS tested me on this -- only once. He was absolutely ravenous by breakfast the next morning. Never pulled that "I don't like it!" shit again.
[ Reply | Options ]11.11.09, 10:54 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]
8. or 1, if they are beign really irrational. and a sick kid gets a pass, that's when 5 MIGHT come into play.
[ Reply | Options ]11.11.09, 01:29 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]3 then 5. Kids, like everyone else, haver food preferences. Why should they be forced to eat what I'm serving just because they are children? If, for example, my husband prepared liver and onions for dinner I'd have a bowl of cereal instead. The same principle applies to dcs.
[ Reply | Options ]11.11.09, 01:56 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]funny, no one else really mentioned this. i wonder if the difference between the people who answer 1 and the people who answer 4, 5, or 8 is that the #1 people aren't particularly selective (aka picky) about what they eat, while the 4, 5 or 8 people do have strong preferences or at least remember having strong preferences and dislikes as a child and are therefore more willing to make accomodations.
[ Reply | Options ]11.11.09, 04:55 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
[+] at what point should i take 5yo to the ped, or call? He almost never gets sick, but t... 6 replies
Talk : : November 10, 2009
at what point should i take 5yo to the ped, or call? He almost never gets sick, but this morning woke up with 101 degree fever, it went down slightly but now up to 101.6. He complains of feeling ache in head and back
6 replies [ Reply | Watch | Options ]11.10.09, 12:32 PM [ Flag ]I'd call and ask if it would be swine flu.
[ Reply | Options ]11.10.09, 12:33 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]Sounds like potentially flu. I'd see how the night goes but plan on taking him first thing in the morning.
[ Reply | Options ]11.10.09, 12:36 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]that is a pretty low fever. i would see how it goes tonight. make sure he can bend his neck throughout!
[ Reply | Options ]11.10.09, 12:36 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]^^if he does have flu, and it is a pretty mild case, there is really nothing your doc could do for you that you can't do for yourself. no fun, for sure!
[ Reply | Options ]11.10.09, 12:44 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
I have a pretty high threshhold for doctor visits. They rarely do anything of value and dc is old enough to report specific unusual symptoms such as ear pain, neck stiffness, urinary symptoms. For me it would be fever over 104, lethargic child (like truly not easily rousable), confused child, or fever lasting more than 3 days.
[ Reply | Options ]11.10.09, 12:42 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]funny. My two and husband had flu, probably the swine flu, 103 for two days, and i didnt call the pediatrician. the only think worriesome is head pain..
[ Reply | Options ]11.10.09, 12:49 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
[+] When did your morning sickness go away? Mine has faded at 10 weeks. Bad sign? 6 replies
- not a bad sign at all. i didn't have ANY morning sickness, and instead of being happy about it, i was a nervous wreck. normal pregnancy, db born healthy. really, everyone's different, some are sick the entire time, some not at all...
Talk : : November 10, 2009
When did your morning sickness go away? Mine has faded at 10 weeks. Bad sign?
6 replies [ Reply | Watch | Options ]11.10.09, 11:05 AM [ Flag ]not a bad sign at all. i didn't have ANY morning sickness, and instead of being happy about it, i was a nervous wreck. normal pregnancy, db born healthy. really, everyone's different, some are sick the entire time, some not at all....you're fine, i'm sure.
[ Reply | Options ]11.10.09, 11:07 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]Thanks - with dc #1 the m/s went away exactly at week 12..this feels too soon. Fingers crossed you are right.
[ Reply | Options ]11.10.09, 11:09 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]sure....check with your dr. if you're feeling unsure...i called the ob about every ridiculous thing. but all pregnancies are different, i have friends with 3 kids that had different symptoms each time. from what i've heard, m/s isn't really an important symptom telling you things are alright. what matters most is getting a good report from ob, hearing heartbeat, etc.) good luck
[ Reply | Options ]11.10.09, 11:12 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]Thanks. My drs are so relaxed, I know they will tell me it's just fine. I have an appt next Thursday so I'll know the deal then I guess...
[ Reply | Options ]11.10.09, 11:21 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]
1975.
[ Reply | Options ]11.10.09, 11:24 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]with #1 I didn't have any and was a wreck thanks to the interweb, with #2 had some but very mild, with both I was very, very exhausted.
[ Reply | Options ]11.10.09, 11:34 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]
[+] I am really curious how working mothers do it... working F/T and getting home at six ... 86 replies
- with one partner home earlier or leaving in the morning later- you get the best balance-...
- other kids and learning. We see her in the morning and at night. Occasionally, one of us will play...have a great nanny and I see them morning, night and 3 days on the weekend. plus I...answer. In my case, my husband was so sick of his job in finance that he took...make sacrifices. My 3yo see me in the morning for almost 2 hours--hugs me--tells me to have...
Talk : : November 10, 2009
I am really curious how working mothers do it... working F/T and getting home at six o'clock, just before your DC go to bed. How do you cope, emotionally? I ask because I work P/T, 9 until 3 every day, and I have so much guilt working those hours. I don't mean to come off sounding judgemental-- I just want to hear some other working mothers' stories.
86 replies [ Reply | Watch | Options ]11.10.09, 04:12 AM [ Flag ]No guilt here; I have a top notch nanny and pay for my child to participate in wonderful activities. My DC goes to bed at 9:00; my DH is home at 5:30. I live a few blocks from my office and come home for lunch some days. My job is important to me. This is life.
[ Reply | Options ]11.10.09, 04:19 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]np: that sounds awesome- I think living near work is key with one partner home earlier or leaving in the morning later- you get the best balance-
[ Reply | Options ]11.10.09, 06:00 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]It's har when BOTH parents have these hard-charging jobs with long hours. I would not mind working the long hours if I knew DC was home with his dad, and vice versa. I try to make the weekends and nights count, we try to have the DC take a nap so they can stay up later, but yes, it is hard seeing your kids for 2 hrs max each night.
[ Reply | Options ]11.10.09, 06:27 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]Your DC is not getting enough sleep. Sad that you're jeopardizing his health for your own benefit.
[ Reply | Options ]11.10.09, 07:44 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]I don't see how this is different than me keeping DS up so he can see his dad, who isn't home until 8pm because he is working hard to support us.
[ Reply | Options ]11.10.09, 09:24 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]They're both wrong.
[ Reply | Options ]11.10.09, 11:15 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]