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[ - ] Is redshirting kindergartners really just a NYC thing or is this becoming the norm everywhere? My ds has an August birthday. We are moving out of NYC and into NC and wondering. 28 Replies [ Reply | Watch | More ]
General Topics 05.27.08, 05:26 PM Flag
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dont know what you are talking about [ Reply | More ]
General Topics 05.27.08, 05:27 PM Flag
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Interesting. Where are you? [ Reply | More ]
General Topics 05.27.08, 05:28 PM Flag
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np: I am from NYC and don't know what you are talking about either but am guessing it means holding them back a year based on the rest ofyour post. [ Reply | More ]
General Topics 05.27.08, 05:31 PM Flag
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I would definitely consider it for an August boy. I do not live in NYC. [ Reply | More ]
General Topics 05.27.08, 05:29 PM Flag
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You can't do it in NYC for Aug boy (for public school anyway). The cutoff is not until Dec. [ Reply | More ]
General Topics 05.27.08, 06:17 PM Flag
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mainly in large metropolitan areas. there was an article in NYT about this about 6-8 months ago. [ Reply | More ]
General Topics 05.27.08, 05:29 PM Flag
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It's pretty popular everywhere, not just NYC, to try to give your child the "advantage" of being the oldest in his/her class, in some cases by a mile. Remember when it was fashionable to skip ahead grades? [ Reply | More ]
General Topics 05.27.08, 05:30 PM Flag
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I was thinking about that this morning! How that was the thing to do if you could back in the day. [ Reply | More ]
General Topics 05.27.08, 05:32 PM Flag
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I have a lot of friends who do this for boys (live in Atlanta). [ Reply | More ]
General Topics 05.27.08, 05:30 PM Flag
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what's redshirting? [ Reply | More ]
General Topics 05.27.08, 05:30 PM Flag
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Totally not a NYC thing because you can't do it. Very common everywhere else. [ Reply | More ]
General Topics 05.27.08, 05:33 PM Flag
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what? [ Reply | More ]
General Topics 05.27.08, 05:34 PM Flag
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the nyc public schools won't let you do it any more and never let you do with the summer b-days. holding back summer b-day boys is extremely common everywhere else (I have friends in Texas, Ohio and CA who tell me all the summer boys are held back). [ Reply | More ]
General Topics 05.27.08, 05:36 PM Flag
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I know of only two exceptions for NYC publics - if starting a Nov or Dec DC would put non-twin siblings in the same grade they will let the younger one wait a year OR if the DC has a documented developmental delay and waiting a year is indicated by the DCs IEP. [ Reply | More ]
General Topics 05.27.08, 05:46 PM Flag
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That is true and it is HUGE mistake on the part of the DOE. What is more the cut off is way too late. [ Reply | More ]
General Topics 05.27.08, 05:57 PM Flag
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It's easier for DOE to have a hard and fast rule for a school system of one million students than it would be for them to try and administer a flexible "when you think your child is ready" system. However, I do agree that the cut-off should be "5 before the first day of school" instead of a calendar year cutoff. [ Reply | More ]
General Topics 05.27.08, 06:11 PM Flag
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You can't hold back in NYC. Publics will move you directly to grade 1 if you try. Privates operate on their own calendar with their own rules. parents don't have a say in it. With a summer boy you apply, they either accept you, reject you or send you a "too young" letter. [ Reply | More ]
General Topics 05.27.08, 05:36 PM Flag
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In my ds's K class, not a single boy was redshirted. My ds is July and is second youngest. There's an August b=day boy. 10/15 is cut off. I considered it for ds but ready is ready. [ Reply | More ]
General Topics 05.27.08, 05:51 PM Flag
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same here. on li. not a single boy redshirted. lots of oct/nov boys (cut off is 12/1) [ Reply | More ]
General Topics 05.27.08, 05:53 PM Flag
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What school has a cut off of 12/1? [ Reply | More ]
General Topics 05.27.08, 06:02 PM Flag
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np: most LI districts do. NYS law says the cutoff has to be december, so most districts go with 12/1. [ Reply | More ]
General Topics 05.27.08, 06:04 PM Flag
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Oh, and they unlike NYC let the parents have some choice? [ Reply | More ]
General Topics 05.27.08, 06:10 PM Flag
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Most LI districts have fewer than 10,000 students in their entire system. It's much easier to be flexible when you are dealing with smaller numbers. [ Reply | More ]
General Topics 05.27.08, 06:16 PM Flag
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DOE could do it in a heartbeat, they don't want to. I worked there for 10 years, they waste resources right, left, and center and almost always take the easy way out rather than doing what is educationally sound. [ Reply | More ]
General Topics 05.27.08, 06:20 PM Flag
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I agree that they waste a lot of resources, but an "enroll your child when you think they are ready to start school" system is a disaster in the making. There will be parents who will not want to start their DCs until they are 6 or 7 years old and 7 year olds do not belong in K. [ Reply | More ]
General Topics 05.27.08, 06:25 PM Flag
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Obviously there would have to be some process which one would have to go through and there would be limits on either end. Most school systems that have flexibility have system in place. [ Reply | More ]
General Topics 05.27.08, 06:30 PM Flag
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Friend in Ohio did it. She felt ds was not emotionally ready and herself had a bad experience being the youngest in her class. [ Reply | More ]
General Topics 05.27.08, 05:54 PM Flag
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We live in the burbs in NJ and I did it for my son - birthday three days before cutoff. By January the entire class was 6- i was so glad i held him. [ Reply | More ]
General Topics 05.27.08, 06:02 PM Flag
[ - ] db showing signs of milk protein allergy. bfing. should i cut out dairy or consult with ped first? 1 Reply [ Reply | Watch | More ]
General Topics 05.27.08, 05:26 PM Flag
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Consult with ped. It's hard to get calcium into them without milk. [ Reply | More ]
General Topics 05.27.08, 05:27 PM Flag
[ - ] Pg with ds #2. We have chosen a name but aren't telling anyone until ds is born. My mom kept making name suggestions which was driving us crazy until finally I told her that the db has a name and she'll hear what it is the min he's born (everyone else who asks we tell we're thinking of names or working on it and they accept that). So now she keeps telling me that her grandfather's middle name was Benjamin. She works this into most converstations. Lst night she told me that my aunt refers to the baby as Benjamin. I told her "Mom, the baby has a name and it's not Benjamin. It's not any name in our family." What else am I supposed to do? She's driving me nuts. 7 Replies [ Reply | Watch | More ]
General Topics 05.27.08, 05:25 PM Flag
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IGNORE [ Reply | More ]
General Topics 05.27.08, 05:26 PM Flag
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find something else to bitch about, this one is weak. What else ya got? [ Reply | More ]
General Topics 05.27.08, 05:26 PM Flag
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Thankfully, nothing. But I would like to hear some suggestions for dealing with her. She's irritating me. [ Reply | More ]
General Topics 05.27.08, 05:27 PM Flag
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I think you did enough- just sounds like your mom won't give up- maybe its part of her personality. Just tell her you don't like Benjamin- end of story. [ Reply | More ]
General Topics 05.27.08, 05:27 PM Flag
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Tell us the name!!! [ Reply | More ]
General Topics 05.27.08, 05:51 PM Flag
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just say you'll think about it next time she brings it up but tell her if she mentions it again you are defitnely not going to use it. that should end it and give her hope. when the baby comes you tell her you thought abotu it and decided against it. [ Reply | More ]
General Topics 05.27.08, 06:55 PM Flag
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tell her the baby's name is going to be Cletus [ Reply | More ]
General Topics 05.27.08, 07:01 PM Flag
[ - ] We are planning to wait a year to apply to private school for our late summer DS. Do you think schools would give preference next year if we tried this year and didn't get in, versus applying for the first time next year? TIA. 11 Replies [ Reply | Watch | More ]
General Topics 05.27.08, 05:25 PM Flag
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I do think you get points for trying more than once. [ Reply | More ]
General Topics 05.27.08, 05:25 PM Flag
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np. ITA. [ Reply | More ]
General Topics 05.27.08, 05:27 PM Flag
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This makes no sense. It implies that late summer boys have the edge over everyone else the second time around. [ Reply | More ]
General Topics 05.27.08, 05:42 PM Flag
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not true. but if they are looking at 2 summer boys, and one applied the year before, the one who applied twice would probably get the spot. [ Reply | More ]
General Topics 05.27.08, 05:51 PM Flag
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not necessarily. it depends on the dc, the scores, the family, the interview, etc. [ Reply | More ]
General Topics 05.27.08, 05:54 PM Flag
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ITA. The only time the boy that applied twice would get preference is if they loved him the first time just thought he was too young. If the dc is immature and not ready it may well stick in their heads and be a deterrent even a year later. [ Reply | More ]
General Topics 05.28.08, 06:41 AM Flag
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np - It depends on how strong the child is the first time. If he's immature, why make a negative impression? Also, we went through the process this year with a summer DD and I cannot imagine asking her to do it again this fall (fortunately it went fine) - it was grueling. I would not put a child through that two years in a row. We would have just sent her public if it didn't work out. [ Reply | More ]
General Topics 05.28.08, 06:00 AM Flag
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I agree about child being strong the first time. I would also say if you want to test waters I'd apply only to top 2 or 3 schools. No way would I do 12 schools for two years in a row. [ Reply | More ]
General Topics 05.28.08, 06:42 AM Flag
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Have you spoken with PSD? they may have good insight into this [ Reply | More ]
General Topics 05.27.08, 05:56 PM Flag
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Some do. Most will not send a too young letter if they are not interested - they will just reject. [ Reply | More ]
General Topics 05.27.08, 05:59 PM Flag
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Another thought is to apply this year to schools with preKs, giving admissions some leeway in placing your child. [ Reply | More ]
General Topics 05.27.08, 09:33 PM Flag
[ - ] Okay I will admit....I liked the old format better! 4 Replies [ Reply | Watch | More ]
Toddler 05.27.08, 05:24 PM Flag
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If tonight doesn't pick up, I'm outtie [ Reply | More ]
General Topics 05.27.08, 05:25 PM Flag
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No me gusta this format!!!!!!! UGH!! [ Reply | More ]
General Topics 05.27.08, 05:32 PM Flag
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i totally agree. why? why? why? it sucks so bad! [ Reply | More ]
General Topics 05.27.08, 05:28 PM Flag
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I'm fine with this format but it's so clear that tons of peple have jumped ship. It's much slower and duller. Too bad, b/c once you're used to this format it doesn't freeze up like the old one [ Reply | More ]
General Topics 05.27.08, 05:33 PM Flag
[ - ] Give me a good reason to stay 2 Replies [ Reply | Watch | More ]
General Topics 05.27.08, 05:24 PM Flag
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If you stay there will be trouble, if you go it will be double? [ Reply | More ]
General Topics 05.27.08, 05:25 PM Flag
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exactly [ Reply | More ]
General Topics 05.27.08, 05:26 PM Flag
[ - ] did you have your own bedroom growing up? If you shared a room, how many people did you share it with? 7 Replies [ Reply | Watch | More ]
General Topics 05.27.08, 05:23 PM Flag
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had my own [ Reply | More ]
General Topics 05.27.08, 05:25 PM Flag
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Mostly shared a room. With my brother from the time I was 13 mos until I was 4 and we moved to a house; then with my sister from the time I was 5 until I left for college. [ Reply | More ]
General Topics 05.27.08, 05:26 PM Flag
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my own- never shared until college. [ Reply | More ]
General Topics 05.27.08, 06:04 PM Flag
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Ditto. [ Reply | More ]
General Topics 05.27.08, 06:05 PM Flag
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college was the first time in my life I had my own room. [ Reply | More ]
General Topics 05.27.08, 06:13 PM Flag
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Not most of the time. Shared with my brother until I was six. I had my own room for two years then shared with my sister once she was old enough not to have to sleep in the bassinet by my parents' bed. [ Reply | More ]
General Topics 05.27.08, 06:08 PM Flag
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I shared until I was 6, then had my own. When I was sharing it was with my little sister. [ Reply | More ]
General Topics 05.27.08, 06:09 PM Flag
[ - ] any college counselors on? 0 Replies [ Reply | Watch | More ]
General Topics 05.27.08, 05:22 PM Flag
[ - ] Does anyone here have a child that models/acts professionally? I want to talk to my working DS about some of the issues but need some tips. 14 Replies [ Reply | Watch | More ]
General Topics 05.27.08, 05:21 PM Flag
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Just send him a message through his agent [ Reply | More ]
General Topics 05.27.08, 05:23 PM Flag
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huh [ Reply | More ]
General Topics 05.27.08, 05:23 PM Flag
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that's funny! [ Reply | More ]
General Topics 05.27.08, 05:27 PM Flag
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you are gross. a ds does not need to be working but playing. [ Reply | More ]
General Topics 05.27.08, 05:23 PM Flag
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NP: you have no idea how old this person is. Could be a 19yo [ Reply | More ]
General Topics 05.27.08, 05:24 PM Flag
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a 19 yo "child"? [ Reply | More ]
General Topics 05.27.08, 05:26 PM Flag
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Sure. a child is a child [ Reply | More ]
General Topics 05.27.08, 05:27 PM Flag
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Please, many children work and some are even helping to support their families in developing countries. I don't think there is anything in itself wrong with working. [ Reply | More ]
General Topics 05.27.08, 05:28 PM Flag
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this is true [ Reply | More ]
General Topics 05.27.08, 05:32 PM Flag
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Really because in AMERICA there are laws protecting children from your kind of attitude. A child should not have to support his/her family. [ Reply | More ]
General Topics 05.27.08, 05:38 PM Flag
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Are they working issues or kid issues? Maybe we can help with the latter. What does he do, mostly? TV ads? [ Reply | More ]
General Topics 05.27.08, 05:27 PM Flag
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not t.v. - largely print now. As he gets more opportunities for work I am not sure how to approach the idea of auditioning and being chosen. He is starting to notice if he does not get a call back. [ Reply | More ]
General Topics 05.27.08, 05:31 PM Flag
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My DH works some with child models (he illustrates books). Tell DS that it's all about what the client is looking for -- a particular wounded look, or mean look, or all-American look. He should always do his best and be polite, but he will never win every audition. [ Reply | More ]
General Topics 05.27.08, 05:33 PM Flag
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thx. great advice [ Reply | More ]
General Topics 05.27.08, 05:35 PM Flag
[ - ] i just bought a breast pump and nursing bras. due in one week. done with work now and trying not to obsess into insanity. 3 Replies [ Reply | Watch | More ]
General Topics 05.27.08, 05:20 PM Flag
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Take a prenatal yoga class. At least it will give you something else to think about for a little while. [ Reply | More ]
General Topics 05.27.08, 05:22 PM Flag
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If this is your first I recommend going to tons of movies, getting mani/pedi, and going out to dinner. [ Reply | More ]
General Topics 05.27.08, 05:29 PM Flag
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Take back the breast pump and rent a hospital-grade pump. The consumer-grade pumps are worthless, IMO. [ Reply | More ]
General Topics 05.27.08, 05:30 PM Flag
[ - ] Anyone have a GE Profile refrigerator? Mine is making a loud humming noise and I can't figure out why. Any ideas? 1 Reply [ Reply | Watch | More ]
General Topics 05.27.08, 05:19 PM Flag
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could be the ice maker- sometimes the 'arm' on mine is tilted up and I have to push it down [ Reply | More ]
General Topics 05.27.08, 05:20 PM Flag
[ - ] Who is the best wrist specialist in NYC? Think I have carpal tunnel or something like that. Prefer if they take Oxford. Any nabe in NYC ok. 6 Replies [ Reply | Watch | More ]
New York City 05.27.08, 05:19 PM Flag
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op: can't believe I haven't gotten a single response on this -- my wrist is killing me [ Reply | More ]
General Topics 05.27.08, 06:14 PM Flag
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a wrist specialist? that's pretty obscure [ Reply | More ]
General Topics 05.27.08, 06:15 PM Flag
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totally not -- orthopedic mds all have their specialties. I have a knee specialist who gave me the name of a wrist guy who can't see me till next week. You must not play sports. [ Reply | More ]
General Topics 05.27.08, 06:38 PM Flag
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Hand surgeons take care of the wrist. Not obscure at all. [ Reply | More ]
General Topics 05.27.08, 06:43 PM Flag
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Steve Lee is really great: http://www.med.nyu.edu/people/lees26.html [ Reply | More ]
General Topics 05.27.08, 06:41 PM Flag
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op: thank you -- any other names welcome -- not everyone takes Oxford [ Reply | More ]
General Topics 05.27.08, 06:45 PM Flag
[ - ] Any recommendations for easy easy books for a new reader, with words based on pictures? 8 Replies [ Reply | Watch | More ]
General Topics 05.27.08, 05:18 PM Flag
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how old is the new reader? [ Reply | More ]
General Topics 05.27.08, 05:19 PM Flag
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[ Removed by moderator ] [ Reply | More ]
General Topics 05.27.08, 05:20 PM Flag
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any Phonics set. [ Reply | More ]
General Topics 05.27.08, 05:24 PM Flag
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BOB books, any easy readers in the library/book store. Level 1s all have corresponding pictures. There are Dick and Jane books and pretty much any kind of character (Dora/Cars) easy readers too. [ Reply | More ]
General Topics 05.27.08, 05:20 PM Flag
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Rain I don;t know who it's by, but illustrated Donald Crews [ Reply | More ]
General Topics 05.27.08, 05:20 PM Flag
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Jump frog jump [ Reply | More ]
General Topics 05.27.08, 05:20 PM Flag
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richard scarey books are the best!!!! [ Reply | More ]
General Topics 05.27.08, 05:21 PM Flag
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The Fat Cat Sat on the Mat by Nurit Karlin [ Reply | More ]
General Topics 05.27.08, 05:39 PM Flag
[ - ] best sling for a newborn? tia. 6 Replies [ Reply | Watch | More ]
Expecting 05.27.08, 05:16 PM Flag
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i just got a kangarookorner. haven't had baby yet so can't tell you how it works, but it was highly recommended. [ Reply | More ]
General Topics 05.27.08, 05:17 PM Flag
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None of them really worked for me. Hotsling was okay--then switched to Bjorn and Ergo. [ Reply | More ]
General Topics 05.27.08, 05:17 PM Flag
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have the bjorn but it hurts my back. want something slingier if you know what i mean. [ Reply | More ]
General Topics 05.27.08, 05:18 PM Flag
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i really LOVED the maya wrap, b/c she was hidden in there and there's an extra flap of subway to cover them on the subway. great for going out to dinner, too. she would sleep the entire time. also it's adjustable so dh and i could both wear it. LOVE LOVE LOVED IT. [ Reply | More ]
General Topics 05.27.08, 05:19 PM Flag
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will check that out thanks. [ Reply | More ]
General Topics 05.27.08, 05:21 PM Flag
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which maya wrap did you have? [ Reply | More ]
General Topics 05.27.08, 05:24 PM Flag
[ - ] My dd is almost 4 (less than a month away). She seems to have no control over her actions. For example, she goes to turn off the light and I ask her not to, and she does it anyway and then flicks it on and off 10 times while I am asking her to stop. She does this kind of thing all the time. Is this normal 4 yo behavior? It seems a little ocd to me. 6 Replies [ Reply | Watch | More ]
General Topics 05.27.08, 05:15 PM Flag
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normal to me...but then what is normal? [ Reply | More ]
General Topics 05.27.08, 05:20 PM Flag
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^^the issue is impulse control, not OCD it seems to me [ Reply | More ]
General Topics 05.27.08, 05:20 PM Flag
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NP: So are you saying the lack of impulse control is normal? Thanks [ Reply | More ]
General Topics 05.27.08, 05:23 PM Flag
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At 4 - absolutely. 44, not so much. [ Reply | More ]
General Topics 05.27.08, 05:25 PM Flag
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[ Removed by moderator ] [ Reply | More ]
General Topics 05.27.08, 05:21 PM Flag
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Honestly, I wouldn't accept that kind of behavior from a four year old. But I'm old school. [ Reply | More ]
General Topics 05.27.08, 05:57 PM Flag
[ - ] Our HHI is a little over 100k, in Western NY state (where that's a decent living). Our house is 200k, however, and we have about $20k in debt plus $15k to pay down on one of our cars. We're feeling stretched, mostly due to our town taxes and an inability to budget. Should we stick through this, learn to budget better, and live frugally? Or downgrade our large house to something more modest, in a town with cheaper taxes? I stay at home and my husband would prefer that I return to work so we can maintain our lifestyle, but I'd rather spend less and keep staying at home. We're in a bit of a pickle; luckily it isn't causing any issues between us, but we'd like to get it resolved one way or the other. 17 Replies [ Reply | Watch | More ]
General Topics 05.27.08, 05:13 PM Flag
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[ Removed by moderator ] [ Reply | More ]
General Topics 05.27.08, 05:14 PM Flag
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What is your monthly mortgage + escrow amount? [ Reply | More ]
General Topics 05.27.08, 05:17 PM Flag
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you seriously need to learn how to budget, because you should be able to own 2 200K houses on your salary. What is your "lifestyle"? Expensive clothes, vacations, etc? [ Reply | More ]
General Topics 05.27.08, 05:19 PM Flag
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I love that you can't manage your finances, but the problem is "town taxes." [ Reply | More ]
General Topics 05.27.08, 05:21 PM Flag
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lol, ITA. These are the true keeping up with the Joneses. [ Reply | More ]
General Topics 05.27.08, 05:22 PM Flag
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Not at all. I drive a five year old Sienna, DH drives a fifteen year old Saturn, I get our clothes from Marshalls, shoes from Payless. We have no fancy toys. The reason we even bought a 200k house to begin with is because the previous owners made a lot of aesthetic mistakes (old wallpaper in every room) and we were able to talk them down to 70k below the original list. Too good of a deal to pass up. We are not keeping up with the Joneses. Our friends are poor, cheap, and unimpressed by our large home. [ Reply | More ]
General Topics 05.27.08, 06:21 PM Flag
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you need to learn to budget. moving will be a short term solution. it might help with your expenses but if you can't learn to budget and spend wisely you'll end up running into trouble again. [ Reply | More ]
General Topics 05.27.08, 05:40 PM Flag
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We can't afford vacations and we definitely don't buy expensive clothes/shoes/electronics/etc. Our mortgage and town taxes come to around $2000 month, plus another $600 or so for cars/insurance/fuel, another $600 for utils/phones/lawn, another $500 into the 401k, and $800 to credit card bills. We probably spend too much on food, but aside from that I'm not sure where our money is going. [ Reply | More ]
General Topics 05.27.08, 05:52 PM Flag
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The credit card bills sound like the problem -- the source of the $20K debt? [ Reply | More ]
General Topics 05.27.08, 05:53 PM Flag
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Yeah. When we bought this house it had no appliances except an old dishwasher, so we had to buy washer/dryer, range, fridge. DH wanted prosumer quality products, so that's probably at least half the debt. Then we bought some furniture to fill the house, nothing extravagant, but that was all on credit. We spent all our cash on the down payment for this place last year. We've stopped charging for the most part. I get this feeling that we're missing some part of the equation and should have more loose cash, but we don't.. [ Reply | More ]
General Topics 05.27.08, 06:03 PM Flag
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np: how much do you net per month? any fixed expenses/debt other than mortgage? [ Reply | More ]
General Topics 05.27.08, 06:07 PM Flag
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I think around $5k. See above for fixed expenses... [ Reply | More ]
General Topics 05.27.08, 06:23 PM Flag
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i think you need budgeting help. you can probably cut back in a lot of areas. $2k a month for housing is very workable on your income. [ Reply | More ]
General Topics 05.27.08, 06:35 PM Flag
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Who can we talk to about this? An accountant? [ Reply | More ]
General Topics 05.27.08, 06:54 PM Flag
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Oh, those evil town taxes. The problem isn't your buying a large house (and heating a large house, etc). The problem isn't your spending. It's all about the taxes. [ Reply | More ]
General Topics 05.27.08, 06:06 PM Flag
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np: it can be a few hundred dollars a month. if you weren't planning on it, it can throw your budget into disarray. [ Reply | More ]
General Topics 05.27.08, 06:12 PM Flag
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Our town taxes are $600 a month because the school system is good. [ Reply | More ]
General Topics 05.27.08, 06:22 PM Flag
[ - ] it drives me nuts when dh raises his hand to threaten to hit dc. He never does and I know that this is ingrained from his childhood, a knee-jerk reaction and he tries to catch himself but sometimes he forgets and it makes me flinch...let it go or talk to him about it? 6 Replies [ Reply | Watch | More ]
General Topics 05.27.08, 05:13 PM Flag
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why wouldnt you talk to him about it? [ Reply | More ]
General Topics 05.27.08, 05:14 PM Flag
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because he gets embarrassed and mad at himself. [ Reply | More ]
General Topics 05.27.08, 05:14 PM Flag
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[ Removed by moderator ] [ Reply | More ]
General Topics 05.27.08, 05:16 PM Flag
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talk to him lovinlgy...he needs to work on it very hard. [ Reply | More ]
General Topics 05.27.08, 05:16 PM Flag
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he needs to stop this asap. no excuses. [ Reply | More ]
General Topics 05.27.08, 05:17 PM Flag
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OP: or what? I spoke to him already and he still does it.. [ Reply | More ]
General Topics 05.27.08, 05:19 PM Flag
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